Stream.Transcripts/twitch/2402994209 (2025-03-11) - A.../2402994209 (2025-03-11) - A...


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								Testing 1, 2.


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								Test 1, 2.


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								Test 1, 2.


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								This is GigaOM Biological.


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								Test 1, 2.


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								Testing 1, 2.


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								Got it.


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								Test 1, 2.


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								There he is.


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								I finally made it in.


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								Can you hear me yet?


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								Can you hear me yet?


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								Oh, I got to move my camera really have to sit over here just to be in the middle.


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								Just a little to just move it a little.


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								Maybe you can't hear me yet.


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								Hello.


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								Hello.


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								Testing one, two.


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								Now you can hear me.


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								Okay, great.


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								Hello.


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								How are you?


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								I've been I've been talking to you for like, since you joined in 45 seconds ago, and then just realized you can hear it.


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								It's all good.


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								Yeah.


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								I mean, I can do it like like this, I suppose.


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								I suppose this would work, then you don't have to move your camera.


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								Right.


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								I just do it like this instead of the close up.


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								I don't know.


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								Oh, no, I don't mind.


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								I can I can switch.


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								Oh, you can move it easily.


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								I mean, it doesn't matter to me.


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								I really don't care.


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								OK.


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								Yeah.


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								Are we live on your end?


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								Yeah, we are.


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								OK.


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								OK.


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								You want me to pause it quick?


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								I can.


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								It's no problem.


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								It doesn't really matter.


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								I mean, nobody's watching me.


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								I mean, it's only the people that follow me every day.


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								Otherwise, it's nobody.


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								I haven't gained a follower in many, many months.


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								Actually, I probably gained followers since the redacted thing in a way that I've never gained followers in years.


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								Well, that's awesome.


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								They even cut a clip of it.


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								I don't know if you noticed that, but they cut a clip and put it on their own Twitter and stuff.


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								It's quite remarkable, actually.


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								Yeah.


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								Yeah.


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								They they found, you know, what what I was saying and the clip of you and compelling and as anyone who's an honest actor would and should.


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								And so I hope there's a lot more of that and we can collaborate and and get your message out there more and start challenging, you know, this elaborate


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								PSYOP.


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								Yeah, I wish we had a better name for it.


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								I think a lot of people always get turned off by these words that the other team also uses.


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								What, of PSYOP?


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								Yes, PSYOP and conspiracy theories and fifth generation warfare.


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								It's frustrating because of course it's kind of like, you know,


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								You got to choose one of their weapons in order to fight them.


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								But we've got to sort of in a way invent our own set of descriptive tools.


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								I've noticed that you do that.


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								I mean, illusion of consensus, these kinds of things.


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								And then I noticed, you know, and I know you're I mean, we're not we're not live on my end.


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								You know, I'm not recording on my end yet, but.


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								you know, I noticed that got taken.


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								Isn't that Bhattacharya's podcast name?


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								Yeah, we take that.


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								So yeah, no, I can't.


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								I can only claim that I was using it on slides before him and that he was a friend of mine.


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								I don't know if he stole it or not.


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								I mean, you know, I mean, yeah, it's not I can't be the first person to have said those three words together.


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								Yeah, of course, of course.


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								No, but I mean, I think, you know, one of the things that I think I've seen you do and I'm trying to do myself at least is provide analogies for people to understand it.


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								You know, that's I think that's really useful in having.


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								Memorable ways, you know, whether it's your what it's, you know, some of the analogies that I've seen you use that I thought were really useful.


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								Well, now my I was just thinking of them now, my brain just


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								I got it.


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								It's all good.


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								I really hate, for example, these kinds of things.


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								But but anyway, we can talk about that in the, you know, I mean, I think I think, you know, my my like lighter and, you know, my my


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								they yell yelling fire in a crowded theater, these kinds of things.


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								So then people I think it really helps people conceptualize it.


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								What has been done to them and and how it's all worked, because it is it's extremely elaborate and it's it's like a house of mirrors, you know, and and you think you're out of it and turns out, you know, you're still in it and you're oh, man.


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								So it's it's really it's very challenging.


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								And I mean, one of the things, you know, that I notice is like


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								Myself, I got so much wrong at the beginning, and pretty much everybody got stuff wrong at the beginning, even if they were the greatest experts.


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								And if your analysis hasn't changed over time as you've gotten new information or noticed patterns or figured things out that you were not aware of or were caught up in, if you haven't changed, then I don't believe you, basically.


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								I mean, I would I would be willing to bet that if you reflected on your own personal, you know, stories that are closest to your heart, like Haiti or Israel, I bet you would find very similar things where actors or people that have been in prominent had a prominent voice in these arenas of debate have surprisingly made surprisingly little progress in their ability either to communicate their position or for it to evolve in any meaningful way.


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								And that was what I find extraordinary with my own experience in this, what is oftentimes, you know, grossly overgeneralized as a anti-vax movement and now a health freedom movement.


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								I've had this experience with a lot of people that no matter what,


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								new evidence or new set of circumstances presents itself, they still seem to be stuck in a sort of, I don't know what the right word is, if it's a paradigm or just a concept that they can't let go of.


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								And as a result, at some moment you could see it as being bullheaded or stubborn, but after years and years and now it has to be, at some point you come to accept the fact that there's something else happening there.


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								I mean, there's, yeah, the question, you know, there's definitely witting actors and there are a lot of unwitting actors.


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								And I think there's some sort of psychological phenomenon that, I mean, I've seen this in different issues that, you know, when it's just like one guy saying that this is all phony or whatever.


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								people are you know there's a big price to speaking out socially it's like a psycho it's like a social phenomenon um and if you are like you know you have x hundreds of thousands on twitter or this or that and you have your people and your dm groups and like


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								then do you really like want to upset that?


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								And, you know, all of a sudden you're going to be out of those DM groups or signal groups, like in your case, you know, with this stuff early on.


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								But there's but that's not only in this COVID thing.


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								And so it's if you do that.


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								you know, as long as it's just like one or two voices that, you know, people can dismiss as crazy.


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								That's one thing.


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								But when the hegemony starts to be challenged, then it's, you know, more people will come out and feel safer.


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								So, I mean, I've seen that in a number of things, and I hope that


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								You know, we can start to shift the thing here because I mean, you're doing great work for a small audience.


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								But I want to try to get your message out there and wake people up.


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								This is I mean, this is one of the things that I'm going to say when we record.


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								I want to say on record, but it's like the one of the questions like what they asked me on redacted is how did you get in touch with Jake?


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								And that's and that's, you know, like what led me to reach out to you.


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								And basically it was a process of being able to ask the right question, because once you have the right question, then that can lead you to the right answer.


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								So, you know, I when I contacted Danny Rancourt,


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								who, you know, I know I was I saw your criticism of his work, which I find compelling.


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								And it's something I think he should be asked about.


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								But I said, Danny, I really I'm sorry.


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								I really suspect that there actually wasn't a pandemic.


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								And, you know, in his position was, well, it doesn't really matter if there's a pandemic because none of it would have been justified if, you know, none of like it doesn't matter if it's possible or not.


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								It wouldn't have been justified.


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								And


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								I don't really agree with that because that's how they that's how they justify it.


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								You know, you open the debate.


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								And so anyway, he he connected me.


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								He suggested I get in touch with you.


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								So my process is basically I mean, there's a there's a whole bunch of it.


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								But how did I get to reach out to Jake?


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								He's a very interesting story.


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								But I don't want to get into that in like that's something maybe I should


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								I don't know, I'd rather for this recording that you and I just, I just basically get right to you instead of like a 15 minute, or maybe I'll just try to record something after, like a quick thing and put it up front.


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								I don't know, but.


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								I mean, I'm fine with you pushing the button right now, just start recording and, but I, I think the, the goal of getting a first,


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								let's say, meaty 20 or half 20 minutes or a half hour as best we can, I think is a good idea.


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								And so I'll try not to say too much about who I am, other than a very short through the corner kind of explanation.


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								With that book, with that book in mind, and Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.


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								And exactly.


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								And then, yeah, yeah.


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								Yeah, I mean, that's basically the question I'm going to ask.


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								And so like, um, but then we can use that as like a jumping off point.


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								So anyway, I have, I have a few questions written and then we can just take it anywhere.


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								Um, so, okay, I'll start recording.


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								Awesome sauce.


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								All right, Jay, thanks a lot for doing this interview.


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								First, so can you first tell me how you became involved in the COVID question and the lab leak theory?


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								Yeah, very, very short story.


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								First of all, thanks very much for finally having me on your show.


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								And I don't mean that in a derogatory way.


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								I mean, just like, wow, how long we've known each other and how long this whole narrative has been going on.


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								how long it's taken for, I don't know, for all of these stories to become believable and relevant enough.


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								I think it's really remarkable.


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								I have to plead the, I don't know what the right thing to plead is.


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								I have to plead ignorance in the sense of at the start of the pandemic, I was a academic biologist at the University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine, minding my own business.


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								I was struggling to get tenure somewhere.


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								I had been dragging my wife and family around the world based on my career that was eventually going to take off, you know, when I got tenure or got on the tenure track.


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								And so in the meantime, we had been scraping by as postdocs.


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								And, you know, I basically understood biology as anyone else understood biology in academia before the pandemic, you know, DNA and the Human Genome Project and all that stuff.


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								And so when the pandemic started, I accidentally found myself riding my bike to and from work.


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								And I had been doing journal club on my bike.


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								So I was talking about neuroscience papers.


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								That's my


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								That was my field.


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								I was a neurobiologist.


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								And so I was talking about papers that I was sharing with my students on my bike ride and making a YouTube video of it.


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								That's kind of a story in and of itself, but I had been recording for safety reasons and eventually discovered that I could hear my voice on the camera.


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								And so I just started putting YouTube videos up and it started to become an excuse for me to edit videos.


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								I was having fun.


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								And actually, if you want my honest, absolutely naked opinion or admission on this, one of the reasons why I thought it was so cool was because I thought that, you know, maybe teaching on social media and becoming some kind of noteworthy social media person might make me uniquely appealing to a faculty that wanted to have, you know,


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								a lecturer that also, you know, did stuff online or something.


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								I just imagined that, well, who else is doing this?


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								Nobody was doing it.


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								So I thought it would be a good idea as a way to make my CV more appealing.


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								Again, only thinking about achieving tenure, which had been my goal for like, you know, 15 or 16 years.


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								Um, and so when the pandemic broke out, I did three bike rides very naively, um, about coronavirus and what I could read in a couple of weeks.


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								Um, because I thought, what the heck, I'm going to read these papers anyway.


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								Why not do journal clubs about these papers?


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								Um, you know, Michael Osterholm, for example, had gone on Joe Rogan and started talking all kinds of things about all kinds of papers that I had just read.


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								So I thought, why can't I talk about these papers?


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								And so I did that.


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								And that got the attention of the faculty, it got the attention of a newspaper where I was quoted in the Washington Times.


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								It's not a high-level newspaper like the New York Times, but it is a newspaper that got the attention of the faculty to which I was warned that


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								they had seen my YouTube channel and I wasn't a virologist and I shouldn't talk to any more newspapers so at that stage I was already pretty impressed and thought wow I must be on to something here and it was very easy for me to convince myself given the


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								circumstantial circus at the time that this could be a Lably cover-up.


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								And so I found myself very quickly arguing with faculty members in the hallway about masks and about transmission, you know, R-naught numbers in the New York Times versus the primary literature.


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								arguing about who Ralph Baric was and wasn't and all this other thing.


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								And so I think the best way to describe myself would be an unwitting participant in this incredible drama that was a potential lab leak that was resulting in a


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								pandemic, the worst case scenario, according to some of the people that were talking to me and streaming with me and inviting me to stream with them, the worst case scenario could have been a billion people dead.


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								And so lockdown was of paramount importance.


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								And this debate I got all sucked up into because people had seen my bike rides and said, hey, this is a guy who is speaking out, let's talk to him.


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								Or


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								Dan.


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								That's what I was led to believe.


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								I was also led to believe that I was involved in some kind of Twitter chat group that was an international group of people that was also solving the mystery of the lab leak.


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								And this group was called Drastic.


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								And I reviewed all three papers that


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								were eventually peer-reviewed and published.


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								They all have my review on them while I was still a faculty member at the University of Pittsburgh and so some ways you could even see that as this anonymous group of people on what was Twitter at the time kind of recruiting me and a couple other people like Rosanna Segreto from Canada who also had a faculty position to publish


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								Papers about the lab leak or the sequence that that belied a lab leak at the time I I didn't know what a fear and cleavage site was it was just thrown at me.


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								It is obviously Evidence and by the time I could read papers about it and understand what it meant and what it didn't mean That was like three years later And so in the meantime, oh, sorry, go ahead


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								No, no, let me say, I mean, one thing I think it's important to emphasize how this Twitter group that you became part of, Drastic, was hailed in the mainstream media as a group of like sleuths who were going to figure out that this was from a lab, that there was a lab leak.


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								And, you know, where was Drastic written up?


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								I mean, it was it was promoted heavily.


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								Drastic was written up in Vanity Fair and it was also reported by Tucker Carlson while he was still on Fox.


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								It was completely, it was reported incorrectly, just to make sure that, you know, we go as quickly as possible with the truth here so that nobody needs to doubt it.


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								Twitter groups, you know, these DM groups are maintained by the person that establishes the group, so there can only be one person who did it.


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								DRASTIC was a group that was was assembled by an account named Billy Bo Stixson.


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								Now Billy Bo Stixson as far as I understand is still an anonymous account on X and is still the administrator of one of the two DRASTIC sites because DRASTIC at some point broke into two groups which you know maybe is a different discussion for a different day.


								17:50.731 --> 18:03.721

								But the point would be that that group put together by that account was incorrectly described in Vanity Fair and by Tucker Carlson in 2021 as having been started by a Frenchman


								18:08.510 --> 18:13.674

								by the name of Gilles, oh gosh, Demeneaux or something like that.


								18:13.694 --> 18:15.215

								I could show you that later.


								18:16.016 --> 18:20.098

								And Jamie Metzl, which is really a funny name to drop in there.


								18:20.139 --> 18:24.822

								Jamie Metzl being a futurist and a guy involved in a lot of this stuff before the pandemic as well.


								18:25.883 --> 18:30.206

								A government official and big cold war liberal kind of cold warrior.


								18:30.986 --> 18:31.166

								Yeah.


								18:31.287 --> 18:32.267

								Big interventionist.


								18:32.327 --> 18:32.527

								Yeah.


								18:32.648 --> 18:32.988

								But yes.


								18:33.810 --> 18:38.052

								And so that was a very interesting thing that at the time I went bananas.


								18:38.112 --> 18:39.753

								I was like, how are we going to stand for this?


								18:39.793 --> 18:42.634

								We can't let Tucker misreport who we are.


								18:42.694 --> 18:44.435

								And they were all like, no, no, it's cool.


								18:44.916 --> 18:46.196

								At least our name got out there.


								18:46.216 --> 18:46.936

								And I'm like, what?


								18:47.497 --> 18:48.597

								Our name got out there?


								18:48.617 --> 18:50.358

								They said it was the wrong guy.


								18:50.438 --> 18:51.519

								And like, they didn't care.


								18:52.699 --> 19:00.764

								So at some point in time, I started to really doubt the authenticity of this group of people for a number of different reasons.


								19:00.824 --> 19:02.385

								Again, that could be a whole show.


								19:03.426 --> 19:10.531

								But anyway, I decided to go off on my own and one of the things that I thought would be a responsible thing to do as a biologist


								19:12.331 --> 19:15.612

								was to learn this immunology better than I knew it previously.


								19:15.652 --> 19:20.674

								So of course I had taken immunology before and I knew all the, you know, the standard note cards.


								19:20.734 --> 19:22.934

								I could tell you what the note cards said.


								19:23.555 --> 19:32.837

								But I didn't understand the primary literature and I wasn't as mature of a biologist as I was at this time when I had learned immunology.


								19:32.857 --> 19:34.318

								And so I thought I'd revisit it.


								19:35.058 --> 19:41.542

								and especially with respect to what was known about the immunology of coronavirus because this is of course what we're talking about.


								19:42.082 --> 19:55.390

								And there's quite a plethora of literature out there about RNA virology and RNA viruses and you know respiratory disease and all this stuff and so it's a pretty deep hole that you need to dig and there's a lot of dirt to move but


								19:56.832 --> 20:02.176

								As a neurobiologist, as an academic neurobiologist, I was not unfamiliar with this task.


								20:02.596 --> 20:20.410

								I think it's important to know that if you're a skilled biologist in the academic setting, your main goal is to find a place in the quest for knowledge that not very many people are currently mining in that is also potentially going to have a couple of gems in.


								20:23.692 --> 20:34.120

								Inevitably, you need to read into a lot of different niches, a lot of different corners of the cutting edge of knowledge in order to understand whether or not there's space there for you to work.


								20:35.431 --> 20:47.783

								And so when you're, especially as a budding academic biologist, you train with somebody and you might be lucky enough to train with somebody that is going to hit the Nobel Prize in like a year or just did.


								20:47.883 --> 20:58.073

								And so they have so much funding and they have so many different ideas that they can work on that you potentially could be given that little space within which to work.


								20:58.573 --> 21:00.135

								And because you're given it by


								21:01.429 --> 21:28.809

								I'm trying to think of a good analogy here, but if you are apprenticing with a known basketball star, and this can get you farther in life, like if you can get an apprenticeship with LeBron James, or you get an apprenticeship with some guy who's just a D3 player, then when you apply for your job as a basketball coach, the guy who apprenticed with LeBron James will automatically seem to carry a little bit more weight.


								21:29.349 --> 21:37.333

								And I think a lot of this kind of thing is occurring when it comes to thinking about these ideas.


								21:37.373 --> 21:40.695

								I just lost my train of thought because something walked into the room.


								21:40.915 --> 21:42.716

								Can you remind me what I was just saying there?


								21:44.317 --> 21:45.297

								Sorry.


								21:47.958 --> 21:56.243

								Where you were going as an academic biologist, I mean, I guess, well, here's my question.


								21:57.362 --> 22:01.588

								How did this lead you to working with Robert Kennedy Jr.?


								22:02.348 --> 22:09.297

								Yeah, so I want to think about what I was just saying there because I had a point and I don't know why I lost it.


								22:09.557 --> 22:10.298

								Oh, it's annoying.


								22:10.919 --> 22:11.600

								I'm very sorry.


								22:13.334 --> 22:20.419

								Well, the point is that I tried to relearn this immunology, and I really wanted to do what I thought was responsible.


								22:20.559 --> 22:30.125

								And so, given the fact that all these people were talking about worst case scenario being years, and they were already talking about how my kids were not going to go back to in-person school in the fall,


								22:30.865 --> 22:32.147

								I had plenty of time to do it.


								22:33.268 --> 22:40.417

								And the more I learned, the more frustrated I became with what was on TV and what they were saying and what was on Saturday Night Live about antibodies.


								22:40.937 --> 22:45.883

								And it just started to drive me nuts because I started to realize that this same story had been told before.


								22:46.664 --> 22:56.992

								It had been told before for the swine flu and for the flu vaccine and for all these different things that I didn't understand were out there and were a problem before.


								22:57.753 --> 23:04.398

								And so I tried as best I could to stay focused on the idea that, OK, I still couldn't rule out a lab leak.


								23:04.538 --> 23:05.879

								It still made sense to me.


								23:06.600 --> 23:15.406

								But my question was, could they use the excuse of a lab leak to do all that they're doing, even if they knew that the lab leak was just smoke?


								23:16.586 --> 23:24.489

								And so I didn't bother to try and tap into the specifics of the biology because I kind of thought that was a red herring.


								23:24.529 --> 23:31.511

								And the reason why is because as an academic biologist, I used virology on my bench.


								23:31.891 --> 23:42.255

								So I have been transfecting animals for a decade already or more, where I take a mRNA, or sometimes it's a DNA in an adenovirus,


								23:43.135 --> 23:57.111

								and I will put it in a place in the brain and it may have some kind of targeting mechanism or it may just do its thing wherever you put it and it will change the expression of a protein locally and then I use that as a tool.


								23:58.052 --> 24:04.058

								It could be a label, it could be a switch, a control mechanism, it could be an on switch or an off switch.


								24:04.499 --> 24:08.262

								There's lots of different things that you can now do with that if I just speak in general terms.


								24:08.803 --> 24:21.495

								And so I'd been doing that for a long time and when this thing, at the end of 2020, they started to go on TV and Bill Gates in particular really pissed me off, went on TV and started to explain what I knew


								24:22.580 --> 24:29.503

								was transfection as a next generation vaccine or an investigational vaccine, I went bananas.


								24:29.563 --> 24:37.026

								And that was the first time where I had a confrontation with someone in the hallway where I felt as though


								24:38.348 --> 24:44.412

								Okay, you're not, you're not, you're really not listening from the very moment that I speak to you because here's the ding.


								24:45.373 --> 24:55.620

								At the University of Pittsburgh, it didn't matter whether you were working on monkeys or, or, or rats or mice, the chances are you were using some form of transfection.


								24:56.200 --> 25:06.367

								The vast majority of the tools that are used on the academic bench for transfection are based on adenovirus, but there are also lots of tools that use a lipid nanoparticle.


								25:07.782 --> 25:14.364

								Now, the point would be that I went to people that I thought would listen carefully.


								25:15.424 --> 25:24.286

								And I said that, look, they just went on TV and they explained what we use on our bench, what we buy from our suppliers.


								25:24.966 --> 25:28.567

								They described it as an investigational vaccine, but it's not any different.


								25:29.304 --> 25:33.267

								In fact, the Johnson and Johnson one is an adenovirus.


								25:33.367 --> 25:36.629

								And it's one of the adenoviruses that we use in our labs.


								25:36.669 --> 25:37.449

								It's number 25.


								25:37.850 --> 25:38.930

								What are we doing here?


								25:39.551 --> 25:41.532

								Are we really going to not speak out?


								25:42.272 --> 25:47.436

								And most of them would not say, they would just say, it's not, I don't, I'm, I don't know.


								25:47.496 --> 25:49.677

								I mean, I'm, I don't, it's my, my expertise.


								25:50.858 --> 25:55.701

								Some of them would say, go far as to say they, well, they must have, you know, tested it.


								25:55.781 --> 25:56.722

								They must have, you know,


								25:57.242 --> 25:59.645

								It must be something different about it.


								25:59.725 --> 26:06.073

								Otherwise, they have some mechanism in their head where they can dismiss it.


								26:06.233 --> 26:08.216

								They don't have to investigate further.


								26:09.077 --> 26:13.582

								After a while, I got really exasperated because they were starting to roll it out in old people.


								26:13.743 --> 26:14.243

								I'm just like,


								26:16.148 --> 26:18.729

								Healthy old people are now being transfected.


								26:18.789 --> 26:20.571

								What exactly are we doing here?


								26:20.651 --> 26:33.100

								I mean, and they rolled out adenovirus first, and I was trying to argue that adenovirus is the, well, I was confused.


								26:33.320 --> 26:34.601

								I mean, I didn't know.


								26:34.621 --> 26:40.285

								Adenovirus was the one we were most familiar with, and in the context that I used it,


								26:41.127 --> 26:43.048

								there would always result in a lesion.


								26:43.068 --> 26:44.428

								And we can describe that later.


								26:44.468 --> 26:48.010

								We can, I guess, maybe now just keep going in this train of thought here.


								26:48.710 --> 26:57.954

								But when you transfect an animal in the context of the work that I do, there is an inevitable immune response in the brain where those neurons will be attacked and destroyed.


								26:58.514 --> 27:07.877

								So, in order to accomplish the experimental goal that you would always have in an experiment with a mouse, you also need the anatomy.


								27:07.937 --> 27:21.021

								So, you sacrifice the animal and you preserve the brain and then you do an anatomical reconstruction of where it was that you expressed those proteins and, you know, maybe how bright they were so you can see how many proteins were expressed.


								27:21.601 --> 27:23.101

								Again, I'm overgeneralizing here.


								27:23.141 --> 27:24.922

								Anybody with the technical knowledge would know that.


								27:25.662 --> 27:27.664

								I'm just trying to explain it for the layperson.


								27:28.285 --> 27:37.034

								And so the point is, is that if you do these transfection experiments, it was already well known that you can't just transfect a mouse and then have this


								27:38.140 --> 27:40.642

								manipulation that you do be permanent.


								27:40.762 --> 27:41.702

								That's not how it works.


								27:41.782 --> 27:47.366

								Instead, you have this window where the manipulation occurs because the protein is being expressed.


								27:47.426 --> 27:51.328

								And then you have this window where the immune system responds to that change.


								27:51.889 --> 27:58.033

								And usually that's a detrimental response, usually a lesion or whatever the animals, the neurons are destroyed.


								27:58.633 --> 28:04.177

								And so if you wait too long to terminate the experiment and sacrifice the animal, your anatomy


								28:05.120 --> 28:09.410

								will not have neuronal structures in it and that kind of thing.


								28:09.430 --> 28:11.515

								It'll just have a blank place where


								28:12.361 --> 28:13.842

								the genes were expressed.


								28:13.922 --> 28:20.806

								And so that is a well known downside of using this in monkeys, because monkeys are very expensive.


								28:20.866 --> 28:34.574

								And so if you transfect a monkey, it's pretty much a terminal experiment in about 12 weeks, or you've now permanently altered this monkey by deleting those or some of those neurons that have overexpressed that protein that you wanted to express.


								28:34.614 --> 28:36.495

								So in other words,


								28:39.008 --> 28:44.859

								Even at the academic bench, we were kind of still at the cusp of realizing the


								28:45.874 --> 28:50.037

								methodological and technical limits of this manipulation.


								28:50.097 --> 28:56.021

								Because again, it was of limited use in monkeys for the simple fact of what happens after you do this.


								28:56.061 --> 29:06.088

								You can't, for example, make an optogenetic manipulation in the basal ganglia of a monkey and then have it remain stable for the rest of the monkey's life.


								29:06.588 --> 29:08.029

								That's not how that would work.


								29:08.229 --> 29:15.394

								And so any experiments where they've done these kinds of manipulation in monkeys, generally speaking, are sacrificed then again


								29:16.094 --> 29:27.419

								to demonstrate the anatomical specificity of the targeting, justify the conclusions based on that anatomy, but also to avoid this inevitable immune response.


								29:27.499 --> 29:37.444

								So, going back to this argument with people, with faculty members, if you present this idea to faculty members and then say, you don't want to transfect your grandma,


								29:39.425 --> 29:40.625

								They didn't grasp it.


								29:40.766 --> 29:45.829

								I didn't even grasp the full sense of what I was saying at the time, but I knew I was warning in the right way.


								29:45.849 --> 29:50.372

								I mean, it's only even years later that I understand how right I was about it.


								29:50.432 --> 29:57.838

								But this was the point where the University of Pittsburgh said you should go home and turn it mail in your badge and keys.


								29:57.958 --> 30:05.463

								And so I started working very hard to put it on the internet and to teach people what I thought I knew.


								30:07.328 --> 30:32.585

								Drastic basically kicked me out because they wanted to investigate the origin of the virus and I didn't and I was pretty destitute in April of 2022 so a year Or so after I had been told to go home and more than a year after my brother and parents stopped talking to me because they They assumed that getting fired at the University of Pittsburgh meant I was obviously the jackass.


								30:32.605 --> 30:35.146

								They always thought I was and so


								30:36.627 --> 30:45.149

								Yeah, I was, uh, if it wasn't for the belief that my wife had in me and the faith that my, my, my family had in me, I don't know if I would have made it.


								30:45.209 --> 30:51.390

								I had a few really important, um, viewers at the time also that were, were basically floating my rent.


								30:51.751 --> 30:55.331

								Um, and, uh, they have remained good friends ever since.


								30:55.751 --> 31:02.013

								Um, it's, uh, just serendipity really that we were, we were really in trouble and, uh,


								31:03.297 --> 31:08.422

								In April 2022, I got a phone call, actually two phone calls on the same day.


								31:09.343 --> 31:15.489

								One was from a guy's voice who I immediately recognized and I fell to my knees in front of my wife.


								31:15.549 --> 31:23.536

								We were sitting, at the time we had a beautiful house on a hill that we lost because I lost my job.


								31:26.184 --> 31:33.350

								And we were sitting on our front lawn overlooking this nice neighborhood we lived in and the kids were playing and the phone rang and I picked it up.


								31:34.591 --> 31:38.594

								And I didn't normally answer non-phone numbers but it was from California.


								31:40.430 --> 31:42.230

								I heard this voice and I just couldn't believe it.


								31:42.830 --> 31:46.471

								And I would do an impression now, but it would be not nice.


								31:46.511 --> 31:50.052

								But just asking, can I speak to Jonathan Cooley, please?


								31:50.092 --> 31:52.992

								And those words said in Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'


								31:52.952 --> 31:53.332

								's voice.


								31:53.412 --> 31:55.113

								And so I flipped out.


								31:55.293 --> 31:56.813

								I'm like, yeah, this is him.


								31:56.853 --> 32:00.113

								Like, oh my gosh, I can't believe you're calling me.


								32:00.173 --> 32:01.214

								Like, we're going to win.


								32:01.294 --> 32:08.075

								I was freaking out because I thought at that moment that this was the time that the tide was going to turn.


								32:10.101 --> 32:23.484

								And about a half an hour later, I got a phone call from Senator Ron Johnson, who basically told me the same thing, that he had just seen my stream and that he really wanted a brief and that this was, you know, this was a big deal.


								32:25.685 --> 32:29.606

								And of course, we're now here in 2025, almost three years later.


								32:29.646 --> 32:31.066

								Well, really three years later now.


								32:32.806 --> 32:36.467

								And nothing has really happened that I imagined would happen.


								32:37.207 --> 32:39.408

								And I'm about as disappointed as I've ever been.


								32:40.590 --> 32:54.114

								Not in the sense of I'm suffering and my family's out in the street or something like that, but just that I I'm sure that this truth is not mine I'm sure that this truth was out there before me.


								32:54.174 --> 33:09.319

								That's what's only reason why I'm I'm still fighting because I finally Figured out that there were people that came before me that the same people that are now Pretending not to know who I am even though they've all at one point in time told me they thought I was great


								33:11.218 --> 33:22.124

								These people also stood in front of somebody else as well named Brandy Vaughn, who had a lot of the same big biological ideas that I've come to by myself or on my own with a lot of wandering.


								33:23.185 --> 33:27.707

								She already had nailed down before the pandemic in 2015 and 2016.


								33:28.647 --> 33:31.049

								And I just wasn't aware of her.


								33:31.149 --> 33:33.350

								And maybe more importantly, I wasn't made aware of her.


								33:34.441 --> 33:50.112

								But my viewers made me aware of her earlier this year and since then it's really made me feel a lot better about where I'm going and also a little more nervous because Brandy died in the beginning of or at the end of 2020 and under some questionable circumstances.


								33:50.172 --> 34:00.900

								And so I'm just resting on the laurels that Brandy Vaughn had almost the same language for a couple of key points for me that I think are going to be


								34:02.657 --> 34:07.100

								I don't know what the right word is, acidic for the narrative that we're currently under the spell of.


								34:07.280 --> 34:09.401

								I think it's really going to be able to dissolve a lot of it.


								34:10.002 --> 34:13.604

								And so anyway, I got to work for Robert F. Kennedy Jr.


								34:13.644 --> 34:14.805

								for about a year and a half.


								34:14.945 --> 34:18.547

								I guess what I should really say is I worked for Children's Health Defense.


								34:18.587 --> 34:19.828

								You can see the name right there.


								34:21.229 --> 34:26.212

								Children's Health Defense publishes their own books with Sky Horse Publishing.


								34:27.192 --> 34:33.478

								Um, and, uh, so I worked as a, an editor and kind of a guy who helped with the citations of this book.


								34:33.999 --> 34:35.260

								I'm also quoted in here.


								34:35.280 --> 34:38.043

								I don't know why he listed me in the cast of characters, but he did.


								34:38.063 --> 34:38.623

								It's really nice.


								34:39.424 --> 34:41.346

								Um, and the index even has my name in it.


								34:41.366 --> 34:43.048

								You can find all the quotes for me in there.


								34:44.029 --> 34:44.109

								Um,


								34:44.995 --> 35:02.728

								I did find it a little frustrating, though, working on that book because there are a number of things in this book that are in here under the auspicious of being quotes, even though they remain in there unchallenged.


								35:02.809 --> 35:03.689

								And so, in other words,


								35:04.875 --> 35:19.199

								you know, irrespective of whether something might be an exaggeration or maybe a falsification or something that later showed up to be nonsense, what people said and when they said it was kind of the priority of writing this book.


								35:20.239 --> 35:28.602

								And so even the context of some of the quotes that I've said in here, you know, if I was to be really honest, you know, I don't


								35:29.625 --> 35:31.706

								they need to be explained better than they're in here.


								35:31.726 --> 35:41.949

								They're used in a very specific way by the author, where I guess, you know, I aired on the side of, I want to be in the book.


								35:42.109 --> 35:44.310

								I want my quotes to be able to be in the book.


								35:44.370 --> 35:47.711

								I want to be able to put some key references in the book.


								35:48.712 --> 35:57.275

								And I want to make sure that more importantly, certain things about the story are not overrepresented and cannot be exaggerated beyond,


								35:58.444 --> 36:00.185

								you know, beyond refute.


								36:00.445 --> 36:03.327

								And so I think I managed to do that.


								36:04.307 --> 36:12.932

								And I managed to do it in a way that actually ended up with me still being listed on the front page of acknowledgements rather than some obscure place in the book.


								36:12.972 --> 36:24.618

								And so I think that that's an advantage now, because the biology of RNA pandemics is one that I've come to understand very differently than I knew when I was riding my bike.


								36:25.559 --> 36:25.740

								Right.


								36:25.820 --> 36:28.804

								Let me let me let me let me ask you about that, Jay.


								36:29.986 --> 36:36.656

								So, I mean, I think I'm going to I'm going to pause it for a second, actually, on my side.


								36:36.676 --> 36:36.837

								Go ahead.


								36:39.760 --> 36:46.662

								I mean, I think this is the thing is, Jay, I think this is the kind of thing we're going to be able to talk about for hours and hours.


								36:46.802 --> 36:47.282

								You know what I mean?


								36:47.322 --> 36:52.123

								It's like we could do several streams and we could do we could like we could talk for six hours right now.


								36:52.443 --> 36:56.544

								Yeah, but we don't need to because I've got a 10 minute it's a 10 minute elevator pitch from here.


								36:57.884 --> 36:58.464

								OK, OK.


								36:58.565 --> 36:59.505

								I mean, I'm just saying.


								37:01.685 --> 37:07.827

								People are especially going to be I think the hook here is the RFK thing, so.


								37:09.372 --> 37:11.674

								I would, so I guess what I'll ask you, well.


								37:12.235 --> 37:12.795

								Okay, go ahead.


								37:12.895 --> 37:17.659

								No, go ahead.


								37:17.759 --> 37:17.979

								Okay.


								37:18.700 --> 37:36.936

								So, so how did you, so in the middle of researching this book, Robert F. Kendi's book, The Wuhan Cover-Up, you came to a radically different opinion that the entire premise of the book


								37:37.856 --> 37:42.500

								was phony and impossible, biologically impossible.


								37:43.341 --> 37:44.162

								How did you come to that?


								37:44.762 --> 37:47.905

								And what did what did he say when you told him?


								37:49.647 --> 37:52.569

								So all credit to Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.


								37:53.190 --> 37:58.955

								First of all, let me be very clear on my streams and in a lot of my other personal work.


								37:59.761 --> 38:05.567

								I'm very, very vocal about the fact that I think a lot of people go on social media and lie, and they lied in concert.


								38:06.748 --> 38:09.911

								But in my best evaluation, Robert F. Kennedy Jr.


								38:09.952 --> 38:11.093

								has never lied to me.


								38:12.214 --> 38:18.781

								At one point in time when I was teaching him this idea, he said that this was not the book for this idea.


								38:20.362 --> 38:25.427

								In some ways, you know, you could maybe construe that as saying he understands what I taught him.


								38:25.487 --> 38:30.112

								I don't want to go so far as to say I know what he knows, but I know that I've tried to teach it to him.


								38:30.172 --> 38:33.695

								So the reason why I say all credit to Robert F. Kennedy Jr.


								38:33.735 --> 38:35.557

								is because he's the guy who asked me the question.


								38:36.398 --> 38:39.060

								And it just so happened that serendipitously I had been


								38:40.001 --> 39:07.077

								Trying to wrangle this idea or or this idea was stuck in my teeth Let me say it that way for a while and I was trying to understand what it meant and whether or not it was just some fancy Semantic phrase or whether it really meant something and let me give you an example in the lab leak Scooby-Doo mystery that we've been solving there's a villain named Ralph Baric and one of the


								39:07.777 --> 39:19.408

								you know skills of this villain is that he has this no-see-um technique and the no-see-um technique allows him to stitch molecules together and nobody can see that it was man-made.


								39:20.129 --> 39:31.299

								Now this is one of those sort of I think kind of magic phrases that makes everybody kind of snap into some enchantment that they not only accept the idea


								39:32.000 --> 39:41.583

								that there is a need to disguise the stitching of molecules together, otherwise they'll give it away or they'll have fingerprints or something like that.


								39:42.084 --> 39:51.387

								Not only does that snap you into believing that concept exists, but it also snaps you into believing that there is something that has been solved and that


								39:51.927 --> 39:55.349

								This Ralph Barrett guy has an exclusive monopoly on this technique.


								39:55.810 --> 40:16.462

								So it's a very, it's a very deceptive thing that if they wanted to, as a national security state, over many years in meetings and in public shows and on social media, they could seed these ideas in very deceptive ways so that after a decade


								40:17.082 --> 40:28.311

								The concept of an RNA with special properties that could be somewhere and then everywhere is not unusual that people have been talking about it hypothetically for a long time.


								40:29.072 --> 40:34.496

								And so there were a lot of there were countless movies about it, about like a about pandemics and outbreaks.


								40:34.617 --> 40:38.099

								And I mean, there was like there's an entire genre of


								40:39.406 --> 40:45.169

								a virus escapes from some lab or some horrible accident gone wrong and it, you know, destroys the world.


								40:45.369 --> 40:45.549

								Yep.


								40:45.749 --> 40:48.911

								And so this is where Robert F. Kennedy Jr.


								40:49.131 --> 41:01.797

								is writing this book and we're plugging along and usually my day consisted of meeting with some people who wanted me to check this citation or that citation or find a citation for a, you know, this place that needed one.


								41:03.836 --> 41:12.298

								Quite frankly, I think that there were three people whose only job was to type the word C-I-T-E in parentheses.


								41:12.338 --> 41:12.998

								That's all they did.


								41:14.719 --> 41:25.361

								Anyway, he asked me, and honestly, I don't remember if it was in a Zoom meeting or if it was via email, but he asked me to teach him what infectious clones were.


								41:26.286 --> 41:36.655

								And so I had been working on this because I realized that this was a theme throughout some of Barrick's papers, through a lot of David Baltimore's papers.


								41:37.216 --> 41:51.788

								And in fact, a lot of the early papers that are talking about gains in methodological understanding in RNA virology and in DNA virology stemmed around the making of manufacturing of clones.


								41:52.614 --> 42:02.360

								And so the important, this is an important aspect of the story that a lot of people don't really understand because it has been so often misconstrued.


								42:02.960 --> 42:11.325

								And so it's the perfect segue, I think for, let me see if I can cut this over here and put this up over here.


								42:13.267 --> 42:17.029

								I'm just gonna switch really quick and try to explain what's going on here.


								42:17.879 --> 42:19.080

								with infectious clones.


								42:19.680 --> 42:32.226

								So when you do virology, especially with RNA virology, very typically what you're doing is you have some kind of host, and I apologize I haven't drawn a bat in a while,


								42:33.703 --> 42:35.623

								you have some kind of host, right, a bat.


								42:36.764 --> 42:39.204

								I'm going to leave it there because that's good enough bat for me.


								42:40.805 --> 42:43.265

								And from that bat, you would get this sequence.


								42:43.625 --> 43:00.249

								And the sequence is a series of, you know, RNA or DNA, it's actually DNA that comes out of this, this read that they find it could be metagenomic sequencing, or it could be something where they use primers for a very conserved region of the


								43:01.009 --> 43:04.972

								the genome like the RNA dependent RNA polymerase.


								43:05.072 --> 43:18.502

								Now, as a layperson virologist, it's important to understand that RNA, when it's found in the wild, is never found in a high quantity.


								43:18.662 --> 43:20.564

								It's not found in a high purity.


								43:20.804 --> 43:26.889

								It's found in an incredible array of noise, almost inestimable.


								43:27.549 --> 43:30.910

								Because you're talking about a single molecule that you're looking for.


								43:31.170 --> 43:36.912

								And whether or not there are 10 copies or 100 copies, there are not millions of copies.


								43:36.992 --> 43:42.493

								And none of them, by virology's own admission, are identical.


								43:42.773 --> 43:49.135

								In fact, somehow or another, they wax intellectual about how identical genomes would be a problem for viruses.


								43:49.175 --> 43:50.656

								They need to mutate all the time.


								43:50.716 --> 43:54.357

								But these contradictory ideas end up just kind of


								43:56.141 --> 43:59.943

								They just kind of destroy themselves when you take them to their logical conclusion.


								43:59.983 --> 44:03.984

								But what happens in any RNA paper is this is the trick.


								44:04.464 --> 44:09.326

								They find this sequence, and I apologize, my pen is probably out of ink.


								44:11.087 --> 44:14.989

								They find this sequence in the wild and what they do is that they reconstruct it.


								44:15.029 --> 44:15.829

								They just make it.


								44:16.949 --> 44:39.188

								So if they, for example, find a, you look at any of these papers that, and this is where I learned it, how I learned it, is going back to the papers with Barak and Shi, Shengli Shi, and you look what they did, they will find sequences using any technique you want, I don't care, you use primers aimed at conserved regions, or you use metagenomic sequencing that is


								44:40.009 --> 44:48.432

								pre-set to find coronavirus sequences that you have already pre-determined are what you're looking for.


								44:49.433 --> 44:52.934

								And they find those sequences and they synthetically make them.


								44:54.174 --> 45:01.377

								And I draw a circle like this with a little arrow here because that's what these molecular biologists draw as a little plasmid.


								45:01.797 --> 45:03.798

								They make a DNA plasmid of it


								45:05.051 --> 45:14.576

								And then using any number of commercial means, they make a lot of that DNA that represents the original RNA that they claim to have found in the wild.


								45:15.937 --> 45:26.202

								And now, depending on how they want to do the actual virology experiment, they could take this DNA and make it RNA first, and then put that on a cell culture.


								45:28.032 --> 45:47.402

								and that would be transfecting a cell culture or they could take this DNA and they could package it in an adenovirus or another kind of virus and they could transform because there is slightly different language for using a viral vector and DNA to change a cell culture.


								45:47.442 --> 45:48.643

								This is transformation.


								45:52.885 --> 45:56.227

								And using RNA to do the same thing and that's transfection.


								45:58.348 --> 46:09.957

								So technically speaking, if you wanted to look at the COVID interventions, the adenovirus should have been called a transformation and the RNA would have been called a transfection.


								46:11.318 --> 46:14.920

								But already going back to Jesse Gelsinger, they haven't used the correct words.


								46:14.980 --> 46:18.303

								When Jesse Gelsinger died, they called them gene therapies, just like they did.


								46:18.963 --> 46:20.324

								now in 2020.


								46:20.825 --> 46:26.409

								So my point would be is that virology itself is based on this false equivalence.


								46:26.489 --> 46:28.331

								Now why is this a false equivalence?


								46:28.411 --> 46:39.540

								Because if I use commercial or laboratory recombinant DNA


								46:40.666 --> 46:54.276

								To make this RNA or to transform these cells with DNA, I am starting with a DNA or an RNA at a pure quantity that does not exist in nature.


								46:55.437 --> 47:01.842

								I want you to imagine the worst case scenario for how bad this is because it is that bad.


								47:02.443 --> 47:07.867

								They do not find a single contiguous sequence in the wild.


								47:07.947 --> 47:09.008

								Not a single one.


								47:09.758 --> 47:16.921

								What they find are fragments, and then they assume that these fragments represent what they call the whole.


								47:17.521 --> 47:29.945

								It would be very similar to finding a small scrap of a book outside, and if it fits into the Encyclopedia Britannica somewhere, then you say that the Encyclopedia Britannica was in your backyard.


								47:30.865 --> 47:34.627

								And if you choose the right kind of book, or you choose the


								47:35.620 --> 47:43.322

								the right kind of abundant background signal, then making that claim could just be a wholly manufactured lie.


								47:43.842 --> 47:59.685

								And so one of the possibilities that happened in the pandemic is that there is a loud, incredibly loud background signal up there, and they have represented that as a very high fidelity signal that they can differentiate from a background when they really cannot.


								48:00.512 --> 48:09.938

								and in fact most of coronavirus biology is based on this concept that they find a broken fragmented signal they assume


								48:11.089 --> 48:16.413

								the whole signal, which is again based on fragments that were found earlier, I guess.


								48:16.473 --> 48:21.876

								I mean, if you try to trace this all the way back, there's just really assumption after assumption after assumption.


								48:22.036 --> 48:34.165

								And if in five years they have added five more genes to the coronavirus genome because they discovered them now, it'll be very dubious just like this has been so far to assemble.


								48:34.185 --> 48:35.385

								And you can go all the way back.


								48:35.986 --> 48:37.167

								I mean, I've tried my best.


								48:38.207 --> 49:03.963

								Some of the books that I've gone back to are books that are just thrown out of libraries that are that are coronavirus meetings from the Netherlands and other places These these phenomenon are real But how they are represented and more importantly how they have been represented in the past say decade or so Is not and so that's very important to understand because as an academic biologist It has been tricky for me to whoops.


								49:04.003 --> 49:04.344

								Sorry to


								49:04.924 --> 49:08.653

								to juggle the to juggle the idea that


								49:13.500 --> 49:15.240

								that all these people can be so wrong.


								49:15.580 --> 49:27.583

								There has to be a way to reconcile most of the observations that we've made in the past and most of the observations that are being made now with what we really understand in biology.


								49:27.623 --> 49:36.825

								It can't just be that everything's a mythology and all viruses are fake and all disease is fake and all health is fake.


								49:36.865 --> 49:38.445

								And there is a tendency, I think, for the


								49:43.001 --> 49:49.042

								the operation that we are in to tempt us with those kinds of oversimplified.


								49:49.742 --> 49:52.383

								I like to say you're tempted with two different things.


								49:52.403 --> 50:05.946

								You either have to accept a stupid, complicated explanation that you're too unsophisticated to critique, or you have to accept a dumb, simple explanation that is just obviously not right.


								50:06.446 --> 50:07.726

								And either way, you lose.


								50:08.386 --> 50:12.687

								And in the biological sense, I think this has been a multi-generational


								50:13.843 --> 50:18.728

								Operation that's what's so frustrating about it for me as an academic biologist.


								50:18.888 --> 50:35.584

								I mean why just to flip back here really quick Oops, let's see over here and I want to do this and I want to do this You know this this understanding and this is probably for your viewers that that saw your first show without me To kind of address some of those people.


								50:35.604 --> 50:35.825

								Hold on.


								50:35.865 --> 50:36.265

								Let me drink I


								50:40.390 --> 51:01.699

								The foundation of RNA virology, of coronavirus virology, is that coronaviruses somehow or another have figured out a way to use RNA as a genetic material and exist outside of us, evolve independent of us, and are out there to get us.


								51:02.839 --> 51:07.161

								And this is so beyond preposterous for the simple fact


								51:08.672 --> 51:12.975

								that no one would be teaching you evolution if it wasn't for DNA.


								51:13.056 --> 51:15.898

								No one would be talking about genes if it wasn't for DNA.


								51:16.438 --> 51:20.341

								Nobody would be talking about heredity if it wasn't for DNA.


								51:20.421 --> 51:23.984

								Nobody would be doing the human genome project if it wasn't for DNA.


								51:24.024 --> 51:32.611

								And all of the magical things that DNA has, from a chemical perspective, have to do with the fact that it is double-stranded.


								51:33.392 --> 51:36.835

								The double-stranded nature of it makes it very chemically stable,


								51:37.802 --> 51:39.864

								It makes it enzymatically resistant.


								51:40.444 --> 51:53.193

								It makes it easy to proofread and has the potential for proofreading and error repair over longer timescales than any single chain nucleic acid like RNA.


								51:53.853 --> 52:03.921

								And so all of the magic that is attributed to everything that we understand or think we understand about the magic of life is not present in RNA.


								52:03.981 --> 52:07.103

								And yet for some reason, we are being compelled to accept


								52:08.410 --> 52:11.695

								that RNA itself in a mud puddle can be dangerous.


								52:11.895 --> 52:19.607

								And in fact, can go from being in a mud puddle to being in the background forever, which is what they tell us happens with coronaviruses.


								52:19.667 --> 52:20.949

								They go endemic.


								52:21.570 --> 52:23.733

								And so this concept in my...


								52:24.574 --> 52:30.056

								you know, very humble opinion as a lifelong biologist, I think it's absolutely bunk.


								52:30.156 --> 52:31.356

								It's not possible.


								52:31.576 --> 52:44.321

								And they have no, you know, there's five or six papers about how the XON gene can proofread in coronaviruses, but they have no direct evidence to explain what's going on, how it's happening.


								52:44.801 --> 52:49.283

								And even their evidence that they purport to suggest gives them some


								52:50.123 --> 53:07.077

								you know, extra functionality here does not overcome this central problem of what DNA brings to their mythology of biology versus what RNA cannot bring by definition.


								53:07.177 --> 53:12.961

								And yet we allow it to be the foundation of RNA virology.


								53:13.001 --> 53:16.504

								And so we've got to rein this in, in the sense of


								53:18.826 --> 53:34.965

								what they are allowed to claim and how much they claim and that includes you know the manufacture of things and and the release of things and and the only thing they can do is make a lot that's that's that's the trick here and that's the most important thing to understand is that


								53:36.733 --> 53:44.815

								Any protein biologic, this is just something else I've come to understand only in the five years of learning that I've had to do for the pandemic.


								53:44.875 --> 53:48.316

								It's not something that I could have told you before the pandemic.


								53:48.356 --> 53:52.237

								It's probably something that Brandy Vaughn, who used to work for Merck, probably could have told you.


								53:52.777 --> 54:06.060

								But any protein biologic, so a protein biologic, probably the most common example for people that are listening would be an antibody.


								54:08.096 --> 54:12.997

								The way that these protein biologics are made, and this is before the pandemic, right?


								54:13.037 --> 54:15.377

								We were making protein biologics before the pandemic.


								54:15.397 --> 54:16.418

								This is for sure.


								54:17.478 --> 54:27.340

								Is that you make the DNA, you grow that DNA in a bacterial culture, and then in any number of ways you go from RNA to protein.


								54:28.200 --> 54:32.320

								And you can do this RNA to protein step using a commercial enzyme.


								54:32.340 --> 54:33.461

								You could use it as cells.


								54:33.501 --> 54:34.441

								You could do whatever you want.


								54:34.481 --> 54:35.901

								I mean, there's lots of ways that they do it.


								54:37.170 --> 54:40.832

								But the gist of it is you could even use the bacteria to make the protein.


								54:40.852 --> 54:49.697

								But at some point, when you make the protein biologic, you have to separate all the manufacturing biological material out.


								54:49.977 --> 54:58.002

								All the bacterial endotoxins, all the bacterial cell walls, all the bacterial enzymes, all the DNA that the bacteria copied for you.


								54:58.562 --> 55:21.677

								all the RNA that the bacteria used or the cell culture used to make the protein, all that stuff has to be cleaned away so that you just have the protein because RNA and DNA and bacterial endotoxins and cell culture, fetal cell culture residue is not good for the immunogenicity of your protein biologic.


								55:21.757 --> 55:24.179

								It's so not good that if the


								55:25.540 --> 55:34.844

								process by which these contaminants are removed fails, then the entire batch is usually thrown away because you can't really run it again.


								55:35.044 --> 55:36.024

								It won't work like that.


								55:36.785 --> 55:38.085

								I don't know the full reasons.


								55:38.125 --> 55:40.746

								Maybe it's just because it's too expensive to run a batch again.


								55:41.967 --> 55:44.828

								And so protein biologics are very expensive to make.


								55:45.508 --> 55:51.251

								And what you'll notice here is that in the middle of this, this manufacturing process is RNA.


								55:53.427 --> 56:12.386

								And so what I'm suggesting to you is that all pharmacological manufacturing plants that were already making any form of protein biologic already had all the infrastructure, all the culture vats, all of the technicians that were necessary to make the RNA for a mRNA shot.


								56:14.468 --> 56:34.538

								I think actually the infrastructure or the manufacturing infrastructure to make adenovirus was more closely controlled or let's say, held by a handful of people that were willing to build that infrastructure to make adenovirus because that wasn't a protein.


								56:34.818 --> 56:40.621

								I mean, adenovirus is not something that's used in medicine very often, so it's really only an academic product.


								56:41.201 --> 56:49.723

								So that's an interesting thing to spin here, too, because big pharmaceutical companies would have had the infrastructure that could have been easily adapted, i.e.


								56:50.203 --> 57:00.224

								stopped short, to make the RNA, but comparatively few pharmaceutical companies, in my estimation, would have had the infrastructure to make the adenovirus version.


								57:01.605 --> 57:08.006

								And so that's a curious little thing to add here, but the point being, again, that this is a well-understood


								57:09.385 --> 57:15.309

								fact that this contamination was going to be there, that this is a problem that is there.


								57:15.329 --> 57:22.913

								And that's why I find it incredibly dubious that we have so many people in front of us right now that have the career experience to know this.


								57:23.871 --> 57:40.565

								to know that they would have been expected not to be able to make a perfect RNA, that any manufacturing technique would have produced flawed RNA, any manufacturing technique would have probably produced DNA contamination and endotoxin contamination.


								57:41.105 --> 57:44.768

								And so this elaborate show and dance over the last five years


								57:45.609 --> 57:54.871

								basically, you know, not to sound, but I predicted it because this is what we already knew about the shortcomings of this methodology.


								57:55.331 --> 58:05.313

								And it's not surprising that if you let a pharmaceutical company make the RNA, that it would be the same as the RNA that we would have used on our, on our bench as transfection.


								58:05.373 --> 58:08.953

								And so we are in a stage where obviously, darn it, I did it again.


								58:09.814 --> 58:11.634

								We are at a stage where, uh,


								58:13.427 --> 58:20.771

								I think the populist right in America has been kind of captured in a health freedom movement that's not real.


								58:22.031 --> 58:27.154

								And it's something that existed before the pandemic.


								58:27.954 --> 58:39.660

								It's this, what's really crazy is that it really seems like this same play happened in 1999 in the year 2000 in the UK with Andrew Wakefield and a few of these- Can I pause you?


								58:39.700 --> 58:40.341

								Yeah, sure, go ahead.


								58:41.441 --> 58:43.302

								I'm going to pause my side again.


								58:43.723 --> 58:45.263

								I mean, here's the thing.


								58:47.105 --> 58:54.829

								This is very engaging for me, but my concern is that... Just steer me back.


								58:55.269 --> 58:55.970

								It's all good.


								58:56.370 --> 59:09.858

								Yeah, just for my audience, it's like, what I want is more conversational, so people get to know, you know, Jake, you're like, you're teaching calculus when we would need to be teaching, like, you know, what two plus two is.


								59:10.984 --> 59:13.025

								you know what I mean, basic arithmetic.


								59:14.026 --> 59:18.528

								You know, maybe a little bit of, maybe we can get into some like algebra, the first day of algebra, you know what I mean?


								59:19.009 --> 59:22.571

								So I want to get- No, I don't know why we got on transfection, to be honest.


								59:22.631 --> 59:24.011

								I don't know if it's your fault or my fault.


								59:24.031 --> 59:28.754

								Well, I mean, what you said about that is really important, and it's something that I want to talk to you about.


								59:28.854 --> 59:38.940

								I just fear that like, basically, the other thing is, I think that because you're used to streaming by yourself, and not only you're a teacher, you're a professor,


								59:40.441 --> 59:52.411

								And that's kind of like your nature and you're so used to streaming rather doing I want this to be like much more conversational Where not that I want to talk much but like where were you know what I mean?


								59:52.451 --> 59:54.593

								Like you're addressing people who have been


								59:55.615 --> 59:59.377

								caught up and want to understand the political forces.


								59:59.718 --> 01:00:04.401

								And probably, honestly, most of the people, like you're casting pearls before swine.


								01:00:04.621 --> 01:00:09.064

								They're not going to be able to really understand a lot of scientific stuff you're putting out.


								01:00:09.144 --> 01:00:17.189

								I mean, a lot of it, when you're talking about this stuff, I don't have the basic literacy to understand a lot of what you're saying scientifically.


								01:00:17.549 --> 01:00:18.990

								I don't know how I got there.


								01:00:19.050 --> 01:00:19.530

								I just go.


								01:00:20.971 --> 01:00:29.540

								it's it's fine just ask another question because i i have not gotten to any slides that tells you why we're not we're not really on i mean i mean we're 47 minutes in i which


								01:00:33.345 --> 01:00:35.866

								Yeah, but you can edit it however you want.


								01:00:36.307 --> 01:00:37.347

								I'm not worried about that.


								01:00:37.467 --> 01:00:43.170

								So if you want to just kind of say that this is where the conversation starts and play this part first, I don't really bother me.


								01:00:43.470 --> 01:00:58.037

								OK, yeah, I mean, we could do that, but I'd probably ask you a little bit of the same questions again, because, like, I mean, it's not that I'm trying to get you to, like, denounce RFK, but that's the hook for people because, OK, now he's HHS, he's, you know, Maha, all this stuff.


								01:00:58.178 --> 01:01:02.440

								But he didn't want to hear what his top advisor had to say, like,


								01:01:03.408 --> 01:01:03.490

								Um


								01:01:04.324 --> 01:01:04.544

								Why?


								01:01:04.744 --> 01:01:05.105

								Oh, yeah.


								01:01:05.145 --> 01:01:07.026

								So that's the only reason why we were there.


								01:01:07.066 --> 01:01:12.611

								The only reason why we were there is because, you know, we were trying to you're trying to understand what clones are.


								01:01:13.432 --> 01:01:31.807

								And the point is, is that that when he asked me about infectious clones, you start to realize that that the only thing that the biosecurity state had, the only thing that that the intellectual property market of the pharmaceutical company is based on is this protein biologics.


								01:01:32.287 --> 01:01:32.407

								And


								01:01:34.249 --> 01:01:54.421

								So if you see that as the limit of the technology, the limit of the technology in the national security state and also the limit of the technology at the academic bench, and then they just kind of started at the beginning of the pandemic and misconstrued it as something new and novel and investigational, and this is a


								01:01:59.004 --> 01:02:06.586

								as disingenuous as claiming that there is a new RNA signal out there and we can study it by making a lot of it.


								01:02:08.426 --> 01:02:21.289

								And so, for me, it was the bridge that got me, was understanding that the molecular biology that I had used on my bench is no different than the molecular biology that these people are using and calling virology.


								01:02:22.339 --> 01:02:35.807

								And at the same time as they're misrepresenting this virology as being very high fidelity, that same technology is now being represented as this new spanking new, you know, innovation that it's not.


								01:02:35.927 --> 01:02:43.791

								And so both sides of the equation are supported by the same basic illusion that they have something more than synthetic DNA, which they don't.


								01:02:44.537 --> 01:02:48.199

								Gotcha, okay, so that's why it's it's hard to do that though, right?


								01:02:48.239 --> 01:02:59.904

								It's really hard to do that and it's very very hard for me to get it out in a way that I can remember You know very succinctly where I'm walking I'm trying to I'm trying to do it But you know, it's it's a lot of times do it in total layman's terms.


								01:03:00.065 --> 01:03:01.225

								Yeah terms is challenging.


								01:03:01.265 --> 01:03:04.026

								It's Yeah, I get what you're what you're saying.


								01:03:04.106 --> 01:03:04.987

								I mean, I'm just trying to think


								01:03:05.347 --> 01:03:12.295

								How would I summarize, you know, if I go on redacted or something again, you know, well, let's take it from a, let's take it from a different spin then.


								01:03:12.335 --> 01:03:20.625

								I mean, if you, if you ask me a different question, like, um, where I was also going with it in that big picture of, of, um.


								01:03:22.621 --> 01:03:24.543

								There had to be a biological explanation.


								01:03:24.623 --> 01:03:39.616

								So not only does there have to be a biological explanation for most of the contents of our biology books, maybe albeit a different interpretation of some of these observations, not all of these scientists are actively creating an illusion and lying about stuff.


								01:03:39.636 --> 01:03:43.500

								They're making observations and putting them in the wrong context or making the wrong assumptions.


								01:03:44.440 --> 01:03:54.709

								And so for me, one of the most important things was realizing, and you mentioned this at the beginning of the program, that what is Denny Rancourt doing?


								01:03:54.769 --> 01:04:11.903

								Well, one of the most amazing interviews that I ever did was with Jason Levine, where I was able to actually ask Denny live, what do you think about the idea that the population pyramid is contributing to this, that there is a known or anticipated rise in all-cause mortality?


								01:04:11.923 --> 01:04:12.623

								How could it not?


								01:04:13.744 --> 01:04:15.785

								I don't know why I didn't think about that.


								01:04:16.105 --> 01:04:19.106

								I mean, I took classes in college where I learned about population pyramids.


								01:04:19.886 --> 01:04:29.810

								Well, the crazy part is that I saw a presentation by a guy by the name of Peter Zahan, who talks all about world global stuff, stuff, whatever.


								01:04:29.850 --> 01:04:33.871

								He's a guy with a beard and mustache, and he's always talking about China dominance.


								01:04:33.971 --> 01:04:35.232

								And that was the guy who


								01:04:36.223 --> 01:04:41.029

								who pointed out population pyramids, but was pointing it out in a completely different context.


								01:04:41.089 --> 01:04:47.117

								And a light bulb went on in my head like, oh my gosh, this is like an eclipse.


								01:04:47.377 --> 01:04:53.705

								If you know that this phenomenon is coming and the rest of the people don't know it's coming, you can tell them whatever you want.


								01:04:54.346 --> 01:05:01.751

								Yeah, it's like my daughter when I, you know, like it's almost like putting something behind my daughter's ear and being like, wow, look what I found.


								01:05:01.811 --> 01:05:02.511

								Yeah, exactly.


								01:05:02.631 --> 01:05:15.399

								It is exactly like that, especially if you knew this was coming for a couple of decades and you positioned people with right with all of the necessary, you know, clout and narrative and infrastructure to execute it.


								01:05:15.560 --> 01:05:17.901

								I mean, and then she thinks it's behind her ear all the time.


								01:05:19.262 --> 01:05:19.382

								Right.


								01:05:21.274 --> 01:05:26.296

								She's she's like programmed to think to think that, you know, so they really believe.


								01:05:26.317 --> 01:05:27.717

								I mean, OK, she figures that a joke.


								01:05:27.777 --> 01:05:28.998

								It's a joke when she gets old enough.


								01:05:29.058 --> 01:05:45.326

								But I mean, I guess I think it's actually relevant and important to explain, you know, the way that you that you came to believe or realize that the lab, the lab leak theory was bunk.


								01:05:46.156 --> 01:06:07.002

								and that therefore the thesis of the Wuhan cover-up was bunk was you know I was I mean I don't want to put words in your mouth I'm just trying to figure out like a way to say that in like a minute and a half or two minutes like imagine if you were on like Tucker or something if he was like J. Cooley come on we got this all wrong like what happened you were like I realize this is bullshit


								01:06:07.722 --> 01:06:13.507

								because I was using those same tools, you know, as an academic biologist, I was transfecting animals all the time.


								01:06:13.567 --> 01:06:14.047

								And I knew that.


								01:06:14.107 --> 01:06:16.669

								And then I realized this can't be because of this and this.


								01:06:16.809 --> 01:06:20.772

								I mean, I can't say it for you, but like I'm just trying to figure out a way.


								01:06:21.775 --> 01:06:22.495

								to avoid it.


								01:06:22.515 --> 01:06:37.943

								And, you know, people can obviously go to your stream and then say, you know, and that's where they can, you know, watch the full kind of get the full treatment where you bust out, you know, the notepad and like explain it in in that level of detail.


								01:06:38.003 --> 01:06:48.428

								But but I think for for our purposes on this, it's going to be people who are just like they're going to, you know, I think they're going to maybe glaze over.


								01:06:48.649 --> 01:06:49.189

								Yeah, sure.


								01:06:49.229 --> 01:06:49.749

								I get it.


								01:06:49.969 --> 01:06:50.329

								I get it.


								01:06:50.349 --> 01:06:51.570

								You know what I mean?


								01:06:51.860 --> 01:06:57.605

								I just have to, I don't think, like I said, you can edit it how you want.


								01:06:58.166 --> 01:06:58.966

								I don't mind at all.


								01:06:59.086 --> 01:06:59.407

								And if you.


								01:07:00.515 --> 01:07:03.538

								If you want to hate, honestly, I don't care though.


								01:07:04.118 --> 01:07:04.599

								I don't care.


								01:07:05.259 --> 01:07:05.980

								You don't edit it.


								01:07:06.020 --> 01:07:06.820

								I don't care at all.


								01:07:06.900 --> 01:07:08.162

								It's really no, no, no, no.


								01:07:08.202 --> 01:07:09.102

								I understand that.


								01:07:09.403 --> 01:07:11.645

								It's just that I don't I don't want to.


								01:07:11.805 --> 01:07:13.366

								I'm trying to avoid having to edit.


								01:07:13.586 --> 01:07:14.247

								And I don't.


								01:07:14.507 --> 01:07:17.149

								And for a couple of reasons, I don't have time.


								01:07:17.269 --> 01:07:18.490

								I'm working on my documentary.


								01:07:18.530 --> 01:07:24.455

								And so what I'd like to do is is get like sort of you and I calibrated where we can have


								01:07:25.376 --> 01:07:37.678

								like in terms of what the sort of, um, not parameters, but the style of conversation that I think will be most conducive to getting your message out there to a broader audience.


								01:07:37.778 --> 01:07:42.419

								And then those that want to get the full treatment can go watch your stream.


								01:07:42.479 --> 01:07:52.181

								And, but I mean, I, but what I guess then how much do you want to avoid saying that, you know, I don't want to speculate on whether, I mean,


								01:07:55.143 --> 01:07:57.445

								If RFK is the angle, then what's the angle?


								01:07:57.485 --> 01:08:03.831

								Am I saying that he's ignoring me, or he's being kept away from me, or he's being controlled?


								01:08:04.292 --> 01:08:06.254

								I don't have an opinion on that.


								01:08:06.414 --> 01:08:09.276

								I just... Yeah, so you could say that.


								01:08:09.296 --> 01:08:10.878

								I think that's perfectly fine to say.


								01:08:11.038 --> 01:08:12.960

								I don't know why he did.


								01:08:12.980 --> 01:08:15.502

								This is what he said.


								01:08:17.484 --> 01:08:21.647

								You know, but and I can say, well, I think that's a question he should be asked.


								01:08:21.707 --> 01:08:29.512

								You know, you are I mean, and that's what I was saying in my stream and on the redacted thing and that it's a fair question.


								01:08:29.632 --> 01:08:33.875

								And more people should listen to what you have to say.


								01:08:33.895 --> 01:08:34.915

								You know, other like


								01:08:37.119 --> 01:08:45.423

								journalists and streamers and alternative media, whatever, should be hearing out what you have to say.


								01:08:46.763 --> 01:08:48.304

								And it's a fair question.


								01:08:48.844 --> 01:08:49.664

								And like, I don't know.


								01:08:50.545 --> 01:08:53.786

								And then we can talk about, I mean, I don't know.


								01:08:53.806 --> 01:08:55.067

								There's a million ways to take it.


								01:08:56.826 --> 01:09:21.512

								I think speaking in court and sort of brought like with broader painting with broader strokes in a way, well, not not like generalizing, but touching on broader themes than like sort of detailed scientific explanations for this would be more impactful and productive and would drive more to


								01:09:23.801 --> 01:09:26.523

								would get it out there more.


								01:09:26.623 --> 01:09:38.531

								And then, you know, like I said, the people that want to go and listen to the full stream, the streams that you do where, I mean, you don't need me to be able to lay this scientific stuff out.


								01:09:38.551 --> 01:09:41.533

								I'm just sitting here as basically an audience member at this point.


								01:09:41.913 --> 01:09:42.373

								You know what I mean?


								01:09:42.493 --> 01:09:42.774

								Yeah.


								01:09:43.034 --> 01:09:45.355

								I mean, I feel like after I say


								01:09:46.636 --> 01:09:51.619

								You know, I don't think RNA virology is real as they as they describe it.


								01:09:51.819 --> 01:09:58.102

								And I don't think that RNA can can support the biology of RNA doesn't support a pandemic.


								01:09:58.142 --> 01:10:01.964

								I don't know how to go past that without explaining to people.


								01:10:02.204 --> 01:10:02.364

								Right.


								01:10:02.944 --> 01:10:09.469

								how much we already know and have known for a very long time about the limitations of RNA.


								01:10:09.649 --> 01:10:20.577

								I mean, if RNA could pandemic, the use of RNA in all of these laboratories and the use of DNA with SV40 in all of these laboratories, which is happening all over the world all the time.


								01:10:21.698 --> 01:10:28.600

								The SV-40 contamination in the Pfizer shot is the first time SV-40 has ever been on earth and made in mass production.


								01:10:28.660 --> 01:10:33.021

								It's used all the time in almost every commercial plasmid that's sold on earth.


								01:10:33.622 --> 01:10:41.324

								So, to find a signal of SV-40 somewhere and blame it exclusively on some product from Pfizer or somebody else is absurd.


								01:10:41.464 --> 01:10:42.464

								It's absurd.


								01:10:42.644 --> 01:10:43.365

								It's absurd.


								01:10:43.585 --> 01:10:46.846

								It's like saying, I found a Cubs hat in my room.


								01:10:46.886 --> 01:10:49.987

								Therefore, I know for sure that, you know,


								01:10:52.087 --> 01:10:59.394

								Now I can't come up with anybody's name, you know, but like Ron say was in my house, you know It's like no he wasn't he's like old and gone, right?


								01:10:59.754 --> 01:10:59.954

								Right.


								01:11:00.535 --> 01:11:16.708

								Well, so I think you know that and like when you're I think Like the the cassette tape analogy will be really useful for people because then they can be you know, they can be like, okay this guy Jay Cooley who advised, you know when they're in conversation, they're drinking a beer later.


								01:11:16.748 --> 01:11:19.931

								They're talking to their wife They're like this guy who advised or helped


								01:11:20.311 --> 01:11:23.638

								But that's also why I say that thing about evolution, right?


								01:11:23.678 --> 01:11:26.725

								Because that whole concept of


								01:11:27.634 --> 01:11:51.913

								Inheritable disease and what you get from your mom and dad and Mendel and and evolution and Darwin was proven right when we found DNA is all based on This wonderful, you know mythology if you will a story of how DNA explains it that the double-stranded nature of DNA explains it all because it's chemically stable because it can be proofread because errors can be fixed and


								01:11:52.193 --> 01:11:58.037

								And so it's just this unbelievable solves all the problems that we couldn't explain before.


								01:11:58.098 --> 01:12:01.340

								And RNA fits none of those categories, none of them, zero.


								01:12:02.041 --> 01:12:07.505

								And yet somehow or another, we're supposed to believe that RNA can go from a mud puddle to in the background forever.


								01:12:08.225 --> 01:12:09.146

								That's the story.


								01:12:09.206 --> 01:12:13.889

								That is the idea that if you put a fear and cleavage site, then it'll happen even faster.


								01:12:13.929 --> 01:12:16.972

								In the background forever, meaning can pandemic, can just be.


								01:12:17.072 --> 01:12:18.133

								Because that's what it is.


								01:12:18.213 --> 01:12:19.354

								It's never going to go away.


								01:12:20.351 --> 01:12:21.633

								That's always going to be there.


								01:12:21.693 --> 01:12:29.105

								And so we're supposed to believe that this is a process that's ongoing instead of just a background signal that's being misconstrued as such.


								01:12:30.006 --> 01:12:31.609

								Yeah.


								01:12:32.550 --> 01:12:32.811

								Okay.


								01:12:33.351 --> 01:12:39.739

								It's really hard because, again, remember the point is they have a biological phenomenon, a really loud signal.


								01:12:39.939 --> 01:12:49.412

								All they had to do was sweep a little bit of it together by death certificate manipulation and murder, and now you have points that they can point to as a disease.


								01:12:51.618 --> 01:12:53.700

								This is really not that complicated.


								01:12:54.460 --> 01:13:00.465

								And so when I get into the explanation, I'm really already hearing people saying, yeah, but what proof do you have?


								01:13:00.526 --> 01:13:04.088

								It's really big ideas that they can't argue against.


								01:13:04.169 --> 01:13:05.790

								It's not single papers.


								01:13:05.870 --> 01:13:11.295

								It is a fundamental concept as arguing that you go light speed in a Volvo.


								01:13:11.355 --> 01:13:12.415

								No, you can't do that.


								01:13:12.696 --> 01:13:12.896

								No.


								01:13:13.336 --> 01:13:13.516

								Yeah.


								01:13:13.897 --> 01:13:13.977

								OK.


								01:13:16.949 --> 01:13:17.832

								OK, so that's good.


								01:13:18.153 --> 01:13:18.374

								Hold on.


								01:13:18.394 --> 01:13:19.839

								You know, I'm going to run to the back.


								01:13:19.879 --> 01:13:20.261

								Yeah, sure.


								01:13:20.281 --> 01:13:20.482

								Go ahead.


								01:14:10.345 --> 01:14:13.486

								OK, so then.


								01:14:14.206 --> 01:14:16.847

								Just start with a question again, see if we can get a clip for you.


								01:14:16.907 --> 01:14:18.287

								Or not a clip, but a start again.


								01:14:18.708 --> 01:14:21.769

								I'll just think a little more conversationally and try to stop earlier.


								01:14:22.449 --> 01:14:22.829

								Yeah, yeah.


								01:14:22.869 --> 01:14:30.831

								I mean, I think that'll help if it's more conversational and less, yeah, more conversational, basically.


								01:14:31.091 --> 01:14:32.312

								I think that'll help.


								01:14:32.332 --> 01:14:34.052

								I mean, I kind of just want to, like, I mean.


								01:14:34.072 --> 01:14:35.573

								Give me 20 minutes and see if you're happy.


								01:14:35.593 --> 01:14:35.633

								OK.


								01:14:40.889 --> 01:14:51.931

								Okay, let me I mean I kind of just almost I don't know I'd have to like see the beginning again But I almost just want to like I don't want to start over because it's you know, yeah, go ahead though It's fine.


								01:14:52.091 --> 01:14:53.292

								See if we get another summary.


								01:14:53.332 --> 01:15:03.854

								You could make it a break after you do your sponsorship or something My I have no sponsorship my wife my there you go I


								01:15:08.004 --> 01:15:11.367

								I mean, the thing is, I don't want to restate the same question I asked before.


								01:15:11.407 --> 01:15:14.909

								How did you get involved in this, you know, question altogether and lab leak?


								01:15:14.949 --> 01:15:17.231

								And how did you become involved with Kennedy?


								01:15:18.792 --> 01:15:19.092

								So.


								01:15:19.653 --> 01:15:22.915

								Well, then just start with.


								01:15:23.956 --> 01:15:25.777

								So the book came out and then what happened?


								01:15:28.880 --> 01:15:36.445

								Because that's that's basically, you know, where where we were at, if you ask, OK, so you wrote this book with Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., and then what happened?


								01:15:36.485 --> 01:15:37.066

								And I can just.


								01:15:38.041 --> 01:15:48.264

								I mean, I guess, OK, well, what I what I want to ask is, I mean, you know, I think if I restate basically the last question, so you wrote this, you helped write this book.


								01:15:48.284 --> 01:15:49.905

								I just started recording.


								01:15:56.487 --> 01:16:02.269

								So you helped write Robert Kennedy's book, The Wuhan Cover-Up, and in the middle of writing that,


								01:16:02.759 --> 01:16:08.460

								you came to a completely different conclusion than was presented in the book.


								01:16:08.521 --> 01:16:16.803

								Not only the conclusion, the very thesis of the book you realized was not true, was biologically impossible.


								01:16:16.863 --> 01:16:21.944

								So can you explain what changed your mind in the middle of that process?


								01:16:22.064 --> 01:16:22.804

								What happened?


								01:16:23.004 --> 01:16:25.685

								And when you brought it to Kennedy, what did he tell you?


								01:16:28.639 --> 01:16:33.085

								Well, it has to do a lot with being a long-trained biologist.


								01:16:33.105 --> 01:16:35.508

								In the 30,000-foot view, I realize that all of the


								01:16:39.764 --> 01:16:42.505

								the magical properties of DNA aren't present in RNA.


								01:16:42.905 --> 01:16:45.045

								And when Robert F. Kennedy Jr.


								01:16:45.105 --> 01:17:01.749

								asked me to explain virology and what virology meant by infectious clones, it was through that process that I realized that most of virology was really exaggerated in terms of what they found and then what they were able to do in a laboratory, what they were able to recapitulate.


								01:17:03.049 --> 01:17:06.790

								Let me ask you, what are infectious clones and why would he want to know that?


								01:17:08.202 --> 01:17:21.152

								It's a term that's described and referenced in a lot of virology papers where they will claim to have found a virus in a bat and then they will make an infectious clone version of it and that's basically all they say.


								01:17:21.792 --> 01:17:28.938

								They'll say we made an infectious clone of what we found and then they cite whatever, you know, methodological paper that they


								01:17:29.844 --> 01:17:31.446

								that has the details of how they did it.


								01:17:31.546 --> 01:17:42.118

								But what that means, you have to track that down, but when you get back to it, you always find out that what that means is they took that sequence that they found in the wild and they made a synthetic DNA copy of it.


								01:17:43.135 --> 01:17:45.297

								And the reason why that became very significant.


								01:17:45.337 --> 01:17:46.358

								So let me interrupt.


								01:17:46.478 --> 01:17:46.638

								Sure.


								01:17:46.658 --> 01:17:52.462

								You're saying they can take a they can take a bat that they find find in a cave, whatever it may be.


								01:17:53.023 --> 01:17:56.145

								Take some DNA sequence, you said.


								01:17:56.165 --> 01:17:58.507

								It depends on what they claim.


								01:17:58.567 --> 01:18:03.410

								Ultimately, if they're sequencing, it has to be DNA because all sequences are generated from DNA.


								01:18:03.430 --> 01:18:03.851

								There's no.


								01:18:04.071 --> 01:18:08.054

								Well, until very recently, there weren't very many good ways to sequence RNA directly.


								01:18:08.740 --> 01:18:21.466

								So in all of the virology papers that this mythology is based on, they're usually finding an RNA in the wild by first converting all the RNA they find to DNA and then sequencing that DNA.


								01:18:22.766 --> 01:18:23.887

								That's a technical detail.


								01:18:23.907 --> 01:18:24.467

								It doesn't matter.


								01:18:24.507 --> 01:18:26.728

								But yes, ask your question again.


								01:18:29.085 --> 01:18:39.469

								Well, my question is basically, why would RFK want to know what an infectious clone is and what would be the significance of an infectious clone?


								01:18:39.509 --> 01:18:41.910

								What did you realize is the significance?


								01:18:42.210 --> 01:18:44.871

								Well, I mean, it's the basis of all virology.


								01:18:44.931 --> 01:18:47.312

								I think that's what hit him when he's reading.


								01:18:47.372 --> 01:18:48.573

								And I do think that he


								01:18:49.332 --> 01:18:58.427

								He tries to read some of these abstracts in these papers and he sees this coming up in the methodologies a lot, that they made an infectious clone to approximate what they found.


								01:19:00.327 --> 01:19:08.313

								The point being, again, it feels very much like kind of a genuine question that I just looked for a genuine answer.


								01:19:08.353 --> 01:19:20.241

								But the result of that answer was that an infectious clone is not recapitulating, to use the big word, but it's not replicating what happens in nature.


								01:19:20.321 --> 01:19:25.165

								And that was something I've tried to explain a lot of times very simply.


								01:19:27.326 --> 01:19:28.327

								But if you...


								01:19:31.504 --> 01:19:54.169

								It's it's really hard to explain but what they find in in an animal or purport to measure in an animal is is exclusively an incomplete sequence It is a it is a very noisy signal and assumptions need to be made in order to


								01:19:55.476 --> 01:20:21.086

								make a consensus sequence and then that consensus like we'll just agree that this is probably what the book reads so for example i mean this is a terrible but it may be okay if you found 30 pages of this book random 30 pages and then you tried to approximate the rest of it based on what you read on those 30 pages you wouldn't get it right obviously you wouldn't get it right but you'd have a book


								01:20:21.926 --> 01:20:27.787

								And if you wanted to, you could take that book to a printing press and make thousands and thousands of copies of that book.


								01:20:27.847 --> 01:20:31.008

								Now, would it be this book that you say you found in the wild?


								01:20:31.028 --> 01:20:33.568

								Well, of course not, because you only found 40 pages.


								01:20:34.468 --> 01:20:35.668

								But you would have a book.


								01:20:36.308 --> 01:20:38.869

								And if you put that book in a library, people would check it out.


								01:20:39.549 --> 01:20:40.729

								And people might even read it.


								01:20:40.869 --> 01:20:42.670

								And they might have an opinion about it.


								01:20:42.710 --> 01:20:46.130

								But does that make it the book that you think it is, the book that you say it is?


								01:20:46.610 --> 01:20:50.691

								And so with coronavirus biology, they find a fragment


								01:20:51.738 --> 01:20:58.822

								They assemble what they claim is the whole book and then they put that book in a cell culture and study whatever happens and call that virology.


								01:20:58.882 --> 01:21:03.164

								Now, up until very recently, this has been a very innocuous practice.


								01:21:04.226 --> 01:21:20.657

								But now they've started to claim that certain combinations of RNA can do all kinds of things, like kill billions of people, or ruin economies, and this kind of thing, and cause flying AIDS, or cancer, or whatever other things they're talking about.


								01:21:20.737 --> 01:21:23.378

								And this is a mythology.


								01:21:23.418 --> 01:21:27.021

								It can't happen because it's based on RNA, and RNA doesn't have any of these.


								01:21:27.121 --> 01:21:31.584

								Even if DNA did, which I think is a legitimate question to revisit,


								01:21:32.564 --> 01:21:41.831

								to what extent we understand the fidelity of DNA, the central role of DNA in our biology and all biology, that's a legitimate question to revisit.


								01:21:41.891 --> 01:21:49.937

								But the idea that RNA in the special context of coronaviruses can do all this special stuff is just wrong.


								01:21:49.997 --> 01:21:51.198

								It's wrong, wrong, wrong.


								01:21:51.959 --> 01:21:52.839

								And so,


								01:21:53.900 --> 01:22:00.103

								You asked the question, what did he do when you explained it to him?


								01:22:00.143 --> 01:22:07.946

								The first thing he did was allow me to get a quote on page 441 in the book, which says that they wouldn't even need a virus to do it.


								01:22:09.007 --> 01:22:16.490

								He allowed me to have free reign to put all the citations in that I think are important, including a Totora and Bavari paper.


								01:22:17.647 --> 01:22:23.369

								And then he helped me to get hired by Children's Health Defense after the book was published.


								01:22:23.649 --> 01:22:33.433

								And I thought that I was going to go forward as a guy at Children's Health Defense who would teach this biology and it would be all good.


								01:22:34.253 --> 01:22:36.974

								But that didn't work out.


								01:22:37.114 --> 01:22:37.715

								I actually


								01:22:40.626 --> 01:22:49.511

								To summarize it very quickly, I got fired by CHD in January of 2024 because I spoke about Robert Malone on my stream.


								01:22:50.372 --> 01:23:00.618

								And it was Mary Holland who fired me, along with Brian Hooker, and the exact timestamp of my podcast was given to me.


								01:23:01.298 --> 01:23:08.562

								And it's extraordinary, really, in retrospect, because my podcast was what got RFK to trust me and hire me as an advisor.


								01:23:08.622 --> 01:23:15.366

								And so my podcast being ultimately the reason why Mary Holland decided to fire me, I've just had to kind of


								01:23:16.366 --> 01:23:17.446

								move on from there.


								01:23:18.027 --> 01:23:33.393

								And it has become very obvious to me that part of this show, this spell that the populist right in America has been put under, is being orchestrated by this health freedom movement that's never really made any progress.


								01:23:34.113 --> 01:23:41.896

								For Mary Holland, it's been about the adjuvants of the MMR vaccine for about 15 years, and she's never made any progress in understanding, even though


								01:23:42.577 --> 01:23:46.122

								She's had interaction with a lot of people who've come farther than her.


								01:23:46.944 --> 01:23:49.188

								And instead, she's the one who's still in front of us.


								01:23:49.528 --> 01:23:50.830

								And that's what frightens me.


								01:23:50.991 --> 01:23:52.653

								I think that there are some people who


								01:23:53.632 --> 01:23:58.714

								who shouldn't be there because it's obvious they haven't made progress.


								01:23:58.814 --> 01:24:08.517

								And I went from not understanding any of this as being possibly a mythology to where I am now in five years.


								01:24:08.637 --> 01:24:21.541

								And in the meantime, a lot of these people are still where they were in 2020 when I met them, where they're still concerned about mandates and happy that the mandates got taken away and still very concerned about things that they call COVID vaccines.


								01:24:23.562 --> 01:24:35.511

								It's just extraordinary to me that all of these people who are in this health freedom movement didn't start, for example, with the vitamin K shot and the hepatitis B vaccine, which are both given in the first day of birth.


								01:24:36.432 --> 01:24:44.498

								It seems like to me that if you were really fighting this fight for what you're fighting for, number one, you say that intramuscular injection in general is dumb.


								01:24:45.158 --> 01:24:53.725

								But more importantly, you say that giving these immune-augmenting injections on the day of birth is just absurd.


								01:24:53.745 --> 01:24:58.849

								And we should have started there already 10 years ago.


								01:24:58.909 --> 01:25:09.837

								But instead, people like Mary Holland started with an adjuvant of the unknown, unidentified adjuvant of the MMR vaccine and are still there 10 years later.


								01:25:11.278 --> 01:25:16.841

								So it's extraordinary because essentially when you ask the question, what did Robert F. Kennedy Jr.


								01:25:16.881 --> 01:25:17.141

								do?


								01:25:17.382 --> 01:25:18.022

								Kind of nothing.


								01:25:18.082 --> 01:25:26.267

								He just handed me off to CHD and until until they couldn't stop me from progressing further.


								01:25:26.967 --> 01:25:30.849

								That's that's the way that I see it, as as as pessimistic as it sounds.


								01:25:33.471 --> 01:25:38.113

								That wasn't very conversational, but yeah, this is my it's a hard story to tell.


								01:25:39.094 --> 01:25:39.574

								Yeah, yeah.


								01:25:40.415 --> 01:25:40.715

								I mean,


								01:25:43.864 --> 01:25:48.427

								Uh, I'm trying to, I, I'm, I don't know.


								01:25:48.447 --> 01:25:54.511

								I feel like it's, uh, going to be a challenge to figure out how to like stitch this together.


								01:25:54.611 --> 01:26:00.474

								And, um, It's all good.


								01:26:00.634 --> 01:26:07.818

								I mean, I get it, but, um, you can just keep asking questions and I can keep trying to respond or we can try and record it again.


								01:26:07.878 --> 01:26:08.179

								I don't know.


								01:26:08.459 --> 01:26:08.839

								It's up to you.


								01:26:12.082 --> 01:26:12.483

								I get it.


								01:26:12.865 --> 01:26:18.162

								I mean, it might be that you need to give me questions beforehand so that I can kind of figure out.


								01:26:19.346 --> 01:26:26.370

								what what response you're not looking for, but you know what kind of level of response you're looking for.


								01:26:26.410 --> 01:26:29.052

								I'm trying to stay at the 30,000 foot level, but I can.


								01:26:29.092 --> 01:26:29.492

								Right.


								01:26:29.532 --> 01:26:30.193

								No, I could tell.


								01:26:30.233 --> 01:26:30.673

								I could tell.


								01:26:30.733 --> 01:26:31.894

								And it's not it's not easy.


								01:26:31.934 --> 01:26:34.595

								It's it's like you're you know, and I totally get it.


								01:26:34.856 --> 01:26:38.158

								I mean, I completely understand it and I and I respect it.


								01:26:38.238 --> 01:26:41.720

								You know, I know that it's like it's just a different it's a different format.


								01:26:42.120 --> 01:26:45.362

								I'm just trying to think of like how to, you know,


								01:26:48.891 --> 01:26:56.153

								get your message across to a different kind of audience or an audience that's not initiated.


								01:26:56.213 --> 01:27:03.356

								And it's like you're teaching, you know, I mean, I think it's kind of like the audience that you have built


								01:27:04.355 --> 01:27:06.797

								is probably much, you know, is more equipped.


								01:27:06.817 --> 01:27:10.919

								They've been listening to you for years and gone with you kind of on your journey.


								01:27:11.599 --> 01:27:11.799

								Right.


								01:27:11.819 --> 01:27:16.762

								But what if we what if you just get out of the weeds and try to tie it to something that you also worked on?


								01:27:16.802 --> 01:27:22.105

								You know, if there are explanations for all the deaths that don't involve a virus, then why is there a virus?


								01:27:22.906 --> 01:27:23.146

								Right.


								01:27:23.246 --> 01:27:29.570

								I mean, basically, like what I what I want, what I want to use, OK, the RFK thing.


								01:27:29.650 --> 01:27:31.171

								And like, I mean, that's the hook.


								01:27:31.271 --> 01:27:33.372

								And then a jumping off point of like, OK,


								01:27:34.464 --> 01:27:36.005

								What the hell happened and why?


								01:27:36.225 --> 01:27:39.667

								I mean, those are, you know, like million dollar.


								01:27:39.967 --> 01:27:41.828

								Those are like trillion dollar questions.


								01:27:42.029 --> 01:27:46.331

								You know, I mean, we saw the you know, like why did they do this?


								01:27:46.471 --> 01:27:50.233

								What is this elaborate theater actually about?


								01:27:50.794 --> 01:27:52.795

								You know, the FDA stuff you talked about.


								01:27:52.935 --> 01:27:53.455

								I mean, all the


								01:27:55.051 --> 01:27:58.452

								Yeah, I mean, that that would be the the other elevator pitch, right?


								01:27:58.492 --> 01:27:59.892

								I mean, that's like I want I want this.


								01:28:00.012 --> 01:28:13.796

								I want I want it to be as kind of political as possible, actually, because that's I mean, what I see, Jay, is like how I use I use especially like X is it's an ideological battleground like you can go after people.


								01:28:13.876 --> 01:28:19.438

								If we had a really good clip where like I put it, you know, through some A.I.


								01:28:19.558 --> 01:28:23.179

								editor or whatever of you being like explaining


								01:28:24.787 --> 01:28:25.688

								What the hell happened?


								01:28:25.788 --> 01:28:28.610

								And it's literally one minute long that could go viral.


								01:28:29.251 --> 01:28:36.898

								And I'm like, I'm already the same way that the redacted stuff has gotten you some attention and your audience has has grown.


								01:28:37.558 --> 01:28:44.424

								Like I have people deeming me who, you know, are incensed about what you said or writing at me.


								01:28:44.444 --> 01:28:46.586

								And those are the people that


								01:28:47.423 --> 01:28:49.784

								you know, that shows where you're like hitting on something.


								01:28:51.424 --> 01:28:59.107

								And so that's the kind of stuff that like and that's just with the redacted clip, which, you know, was not like very well planned out.


								01:28:59.167 --> 01:29:06.049

								It was I just, you know, I mean, I guess the question becomes what when you say you wanted to be political, so.


								01:29:07.633 --> 01:29:10.236

								I can do it a million ways, right?


								01:29:10.536 --> 01:29:12.778

								The population pyramid is the eclipse.


								01:29:13.478 --> 01:29:14.699

								But what did they use it for?


								01:29:14.779 --> 01:29:19.043

								Well, they used it to continue the illusion of the Human Genome Project.


								01:29:19.063 --> 01:29:21.125

								The Human Genome Project was not completed.


								01:29:21.854 --> 01:29:39.824

								The Human Genome Project is just a technological rollout and a development project to get the sequencing technologies going and the storage of sequence data good enough so that at some point in time they could invert our sovereignty into experimental animal status and collect all that data that they needed.


								01:29:40.544 --> 01:29:43.546

								They needed all of our, they need all of our data.


								01:29:43.586 --> 01:29:44.887

								That's what this is really about.


								01:29:44.967 --> 01:29:48.228

								So if you want a political angle, the political angle is like 20 or 30 or 40 years long.


								01:29:49.915 --> 01:29:52.860

								It's a, they knew this phenomenon was coming.


								01:29:52.880 --> 01:29:53.881

								What are they going to use it for?


								01:29:53.901 --> 01:29:59.970

								Well, they're going to invert our sovereignty into experimental animal status so that they can collect all this data.


								01:30:00.050 --> 01:30:03.175

								And the most important thing here for me is this,


								01:30:05.027 --> 01:30:08.708

								So many people say this is about depopulation, but it's really not.


								01:30:08.888 --> 01:30:11.069

								The depopulation is going to happen anyway.


								01:30:11.109 --> 01:30:16.531

								The population pyramid already tells us that the population is going to crash.


								01:30:16.591 --> 01:30:18.272

								We don't need to kill people.


								01:30:18.792 --> 01:30:22.993

								What we need to do is collect all the data that's available before all these people are gone.


								01:30:23.893 --> 01:30:24.894

								That's what they're doing.


								01:30:24.954 --> 01:30:29.015

								There's not going to be this many children born ever again in human history.


								01:30:29.415 --> 01:30:29.755

								Never.


								01:30:30.836 --> 01:30:31.196

								Never.


								01:30:32.486 --> 01:30:33.886

								That's the trick to realize.


								01:30:34.047 --> 01:30:39.828

								Never, as these population pyramids collapse, there will never be this many babies born again.


								01:30:39.948 --> 01:30:45.930

								The next 20 years is the last population bump they're going to have to measure this many genomes.


								01:30:45.970 --> 01:30:48.791

								There will never be this many games of go to collect again.


								01:30:49.632 --> 01:30:50.952

								You can't make babies fake.


								01:30:53.653 --> 01:31:01.278

								And then what does their attempt at completing the Human Genome Project... I'm not recording, by the way, now.


								01:31:01.318 --> 01:31:01.798

								I paused it.


								01:31:01.838 --> 01:31:02.418

								No, it's all good.


								01:31:03.519 --> 01:31:04.500

								It just really doesn't matter.


								01:31:04.560 --> 01:31:05.140

								I'm recording.


								01:31:06.821 --> 01:31:08.322

								This is the argument.


								01:31:08.362 --> 01:31:09.403

								This is the discussion.


								01:31:11.544 --> 01:31:12.365

								Will they get it?


								01:31:12.705 --> 01:31:13.526

								Can they get it?


								01:31:13.666 --> 01:31:14.106

								I don't know.


								01:31:14.166 --> 01:31:19.490

								But incrementally speaking, from the day that Joshua Lederberg said,


								01:31:20.646 --> 01:31:29.570

								that we would use computers to crack the human genome and that the Human Genome Project was assembled to get the methodologies necessary.


								01:31:29.650 --> 01:31:40.695

								They always knew that sequencing your genome would be worthless, just like feeding in a single game of Go to a computer and then telling the computer to solve that game would have been stupid.


								01:31:41.522 --> 01:31:41.742

								Right.


								01:31:42.383 --> 01:31:48.007

								And so then what does what does the human what does completing the Human Genome Project do for them?


								01:31:48.508 --> 01:31:59.056

								They imagine that at some point a non existent computer with a non existent database set to data set that doesn't exist yet will solve the Human Genome Project.


								01:31:59.096 --> 01:31:59.757

								That's what they think.


								01:32:00.495 --> 01:32:02.155

								And what will that give them, a solved human?


								01:32:03.075 --> 01:32:10.097

								I guess the ability to reprogram it, I guess the ability to do something with it, an insight that they don't have right now.


								01:32:10.177 --> 01:32:21.079

								One of the things to recall, or maybe not recall, but to understand better, is that the Human Genome Project suggests that something has been solved, but it hasn't.


								01:32:21.159 --> 01:32:29.060

								Remember, if you can find a bunch of proteins encoded in the DNA, that doesn't tell you anything about the pattern integrity


								01:32:29.815 --> 01:32:31.536

								that those proteins are expressed in.


								01:32:31.576 --> 01:32:36.999

								They can't look at your DNA and tell you when you went into puberty and when your puberty ended.


								01:32:37.519 --> 01:32:43.762

								They can't look at your DNA and explain why you didn't turn out to be this height, but you turned out to be that height.


								01:32:44.182 --> 01:32:49.985

								They can't look at your DNA and even explain why you're the weight that you are right now and the weight you were when you were a teenager.


								01:32:50.485 --> 01:33:07.199

								and when your beard started to grow because those are all things that are encoded across a temporal time course that they haven't found anything in the DNA code that suggests how this developmental time course that for your frontal cortex took 22 years


								01:33:08.940 --> 01:33:11.581

								None of that is understood in the genome.


								01:33:11.621 --> 01:33:16.704

								So they can say that they completed the human genome, but they don't know what it means.


								01:33:16.764 --> 01:33:24.327

								And they certainly can't find all of the information that we already know is necessary to encode Dan Cohen.


								01:33:25.248 --> 01:33:31.691

								As a baby to where you are as an adult, that's all apparently in the DNA, even though none of that information is visible to us.


								01:33:33.057 --> 01:33:38.721

								So the Human Genome Project is imagining that an AI might start to see that.


								01:33:38.941 --> 01:33:47.166

								An AI might be able to look at a billion genomes and then start to extract those signals which we could never extract on our own.


								01:33:47.506 --> 01:33:48.546

								That's what they imagine.


								01:33:49.207 --> 01:33:49.787

								Is that true?


								01:33:49.887 --> 01:33:50.387

								I don't know.


								01:33:50.688 --> 01:33:59.473

								Possibly, but I can assure you that that's what they believe and they've believed it since Joshua Lederberg first able to sort of articulate this goal.


								01:34:01.386 --> 01:34:02.687

								Um, okay.


								01:34:03.127 --> 01:34:21.440

								And so I think that, I think that everybody that's involved in this wittingly or unwittingly is being taken along to slowly change this system over so that the collection of medical data, the collection and cataloging of genetic data is done in such a way so that the data is uniform.


								01:34:21.500 --> 01:34:22.660

								Cause that's one of the problems.


								01:34:22.700 --> 01:34:25.202

								You can't have 40 different formats for this data.


								01:34:25.642 --> 01:34:29.325

								You can't have it stored in 40 different formats in 40 different places.


								01:34:29.385 --> 01:34:30.626

								That's why they announced the.


								01:34:31.246 --> 01:34:33.507

								the Stargate AI thing in the first place.


								01:34:33.547 --> 01:34:35.728

								You got to be able to store it, organize it.


								01:34:35.908 --> 01:34:44.591

								All these people from the moment the Human Genome Project was conceived understood that the data needed to be stored in a way that could be shared across time and space.


								01:34:45.112 --> 01:34:50.354

								And so they had to come up with different agreements on how we should spread the data and how we should encode it.


								01:34:50.394 --> 01:34:54.475

								And that's been going on iteration after iteration for this very purpose.


								01:34:55.396 --> 01:34:56.176

								Absolutely.


								01:34:57.247 --> 01:35:11.020

								That's the same reason why when they did this to Jesse Gelsinger in 2000, and then they had a congressional hearing about it, they were talking about gene therapy and anybody that took part in a gene therapy experiment as risking their lives.


								01:35:12.602 --> 01:35:16.406

								And now we rolled it out as an investigational vaccine and nobody talked about it like that.


								01:35:17.286 --> 01:35:18.207

								I mean, it's just...


								01:35:19.139 --> 01:35:24.864

								It is absolutely a political thing, because this whole mythology is a political thing.


								01:35:25.584 --> 01:35:26.445

								Right, right, right.


								01:35:26.485 --> 01:35:28.206

								Yeah, that's what I mean by a political thing.


								01:35:28.266 --> 01:35:33.610

								Not like a red-blue thing, like, oh, let's get people mad at RFK or whatever.


								01:35:34.051 --> 01:35:38.194

								No, I'm like, what's the real purpose of all of this?


								01:35:38.254 --> 01:35:39.695

								What are we really looking at?


								01:35:41.677 --> 01:35:44.821

								And like, why should people, you know, why should people care?


								01:35:45.541 --> 01:35:46.903

								And and this kind of thing.


								01:35:46.963 --> 01:35:48.504

								This is this is what I'm trying to get at.


								01:35:50.026 --> 01:35:51.147

								So I think being able.


								01:35:51.948 --> 01:35:54.290

								Yeah, if we can like sort of.


								01:35:56.112 --> 01:35:56.432

								I mean.


								01:35:58.555 --> 01:36:03.740

								It's such a big animal and it's and it's a it's a complex thing and it's


								01:36:07.074 --> 01:36:14.016

								So it's it's hard to it's hard to, you know, talk about in a really brief period, but, you know, in a short time.


								01:36:15.496 --> 01:36:25.299

								And I mean, there's so much that, you know, we could spend like hours just talking on the construction of the image of a pandemic, how they did that.


								01:36:25.499 --> 01:36:29.701

								And then, you know, and then eventually, you know, hours later, you could do.


								01:36:30.621 --> 01:36:34.302

								OK, so then why did they do it and what is the I mean, it's like you could do


								01:36:35.043 --> 01:36:39.527

								some crazy documentary series that would just be a mind melter, you know, but.


								01:36:42.269 --> 01:36:44.531

								So that's the challenge, how to take something like that and.


								01:36:46.252 --> 01:36:48.534

								And yeah, I mean, I don't know what to say, I try it every day.


								01:36:48.554 --> 01:36:50.155

								Right, right, right.


								01:36:50.395 --> 01:36:53.718

								But you but your but your strategy is is is good.


								01:36:54.018 --> 01:36:56.180

								I mean, I'm not I'm not criticizing your strategy at all.


								01:36:56.340 --> 01:36:59.963

								It's just it's just different because you're you've got like


								01:37:01.533 --> 01:37:23.620

								your audience that you've cultivated and you do lengthy streams and it's not like conversational where it's like you, you know, talking to some like big personality who doesn't know, like, you know, who's, who's, I'm just saying like, imagine if you, like, imagine if you were on, uh, like some big channel that had, do you know what I mean?


								01:37:25.341 --> 01:37:27.422

								How can we get your message across that way?


								01:37:27.462 --> 01:37:34.946

								And I think what you were just explaining is that but people are going to have to know who is who is Joshua Lederberg and like what and what is the Human Genome Project?


								01:37:35.006 --> 01:37:38.668

								And, you know, I mean, most people they're like, I'll put it this way.


								01:37:38.769 --> 01:37:49.575

								When most people watch any of these like alternative media shows, it's a lot of the kind of same sort of themes over and over about Ukraine, about Gaza.


								01:37:50.180 --> 01:37:55.665

								about, you know, Trump and, you know, Thomas Massey and this, you know what I mean?


								01:37:55.725 --> 01:37:58.948

								It's not like deeper concepts.


								01:37:59.008 --> 01:38:05.574

								So you have to be able to like, I don't know, that's the challenge is finding a way to deliver that.


								01:38:05.794 --> 01:38:12.621

								And so that's, I mean, and that's what I want to, you know, I'm not even saying assist you, but accompany you on that.


								01:38:13.146 --> 01:38:13.566

								I get it.


								01:38:13.766 --> 01:38:15.587

								I mean, it's just, I don't know what to say.


								01:38:15.687 --> 01:38:20.789

								At the center of this are things that people have been killed for saying.


								01:38:21.609 --> 01:38:26.411

								At the center of this are statements like intramuscular injection as medicine are dumb.


								01:38:27.011 --> 01:38:30.472

								I mean, that's where my life's work is going.


								01:38:31.653 --> 01:38:32.873

								RNA cannot pandemic.


								01:38:32.913 --> 01:38:34.333

								I don't know how to say it any easier.


								01:38:34.454 --> 01:38:37.014

								These were always transfections and transformations.


								01:38:37.054 --> 01:38:38.315

								I don't know how to say it any easier.


								01:38:38.775 --> 01:38:45.121

								Well, you can say, you know what you could I mean, and that's one of the things that you do, you can say, Look, these are the five most important things to know.


								01:38:45.462 --> 01:38:51.307

								And like this, and, you know, but you have to, like, in some way, explain what, like, why RNA can not pandemic?


								01:38:51.327 --> 01:38:52.789

								What, what is a transfection?


								01:38:52.929 --> 01:38:58.815

								You know, I mean, and I know you did explain that to me, you gave me a detailed explanation, which I have recorded on this, on this stream.


								01:38:58.975 --> 01:39:02.198

								So it's the challenge of like, how do you communicate that


								01:39:02.870 --> 01:39:05.751

								like in a way that people can sort of understand.


								01:39:05.791 --> 01:39:14.413

								The other way is, you know, that you can, I think, do that is just point out that no one's able to challenge me.


								01:39:14.493 --> 01:39:15.814

								You know, here's my position.


								01:39:16.154 --> 01:39:19.395

								OK, I'm not going to go in detail and explain every aspect of it right now.


								01:39:19.715 --> 01:39:23.596

								But I know there are people who know better and none of them will talk to me.


								01:39:23.696 --> 01:39:25.836

								None of them will challenge me.


								01:39:25.956 --> 01:39:29.237

								None of them will debate me if if my idea is so wrong.


								01:39:29.617 --> 01:39:30.778

								Well, let's just have a a


								01:39:32.219 --> 01:39:33.840

								moderated debate, whatever.


								01:39:34.200 --> 01:39:35.160

								Let's just talk about it.


								01:39:35.200 --> 01:39:36.701

								Why is everyone so afraid of that?


								01:39:37.962 --> 01:39:41.683

								You know, these are the kinds of things that I think it's like.


								01:39:44.705 --> 01:39:57.791

								Getting into that arena, I think, can it's I mean, that's why I say it's like as much as I I hate X and social media, it really is a place that you can get into.


								01:39:58.596 --> 01:40:11.186

								like you can get into ideological struggle and debates and challenge people who like you wouldn't be able to otherwise, because you don't get invited onto the shows and onto the conferences and, you know, onto those debate stages.


								01:40:12.007 --> 01:40:15.309

								So it's harder for them to curate the narrative in the exact same way.


								01:40:15.349 --> 01:40:21.574

								There are ways to to like, you know, beat the algorithm in a way on in places like that.


								01:40:23.195 --> 01:40:26.518

								So, I mean, and that's why I think like, you know, if we can take


								01:40:28.092 --> 01:40:38.816

								your converse, you know, our conversation, whatever, and then actually take it, put it into an AI, uh, whatever program that cuts like one minute shorts.


								01:40:39.596 --> 01:40:48.340

								And that's the complete antithesis of like what intellectual people do is one minute shorts, but it is very effective.


								01:40:48.880 --> 01:40:51.541

								Um, and those can go viral and all of a sudden you got,


								01:40:52.885 --> 01:41:01.549

								20,000 or 30,000 or 100,000 views of like, wait, this guy helped write RFK's book and he basically blew him off.


								01:41:01.689 --> 01:41:03.790

								Like, and I know it's more complicated than that.


								01:41:03.830 --> 01:41:05.451

								It's not that he blew you off, but.


								01:41:06.832 --> 01:41:14.075

								You know, you were sort of like silenced in a way that took you a while to figure out you were being silenced, it was done, right?


								01:41:16.363 --> 01:41:17.024

								That's my point.


								01:41:17.324 --> 01:41:19.225

								So, I mean, we can strategize more.


								01:41:19.265 --> 01:41:21.247

								I'm happy to like even just talking.


								01:41:22.388 --> 01:41:25.910

								You know, I I don't want to like I don't want to waste your time, number one.


								01:41:25.970 --> 01:41:27.512

								And I don't think you feel like I'm wasting your time.


								01:41:28.592 --> 01:41:31.935

								But I'm trying to figure out how to be the most effective.


								01:41:32.015 --> 01:41:38.120

								So like if it's if it's best to like just talk and strategize first, we can do that.


								01:41:41.082 --> 01:41:45.025

								Yeah, I'm just I'm trying to figure out like how exactly to take this.


								01:41:47.062 --> 01:41:48.563

								Does that make sense?


								01:41:48.583 --> 01:41:48.883

								Yep.


								01:41:49.223 --> 01:41:51.584

								I, I, I guess it's just really up to you.


								01:41:51.984 --> 01:41:53.885

								Um, you're kind of the interviewer.


								01:41:53.965 --> 01:41:57.266

								If you, if you, uh, yeah, yeah, definitely.


								01:41:57.466 --> 01:42:05.189

								I mean, if you watch the last charge, if you watch the last stream that I did, then you, you are, um, I get whoops.


								01:42:05.309 --> 01:42:05.669

								Let's see.


								01:42:05.709 --> 01:42:06.450

								I can do that.


								01:42:07.050 --> 01:42:07.950

								Be able to do that.


								01:42:08.430 --> 01:42:11.912

								I watched, I watched, uh, no, I didn't get to watch all of it, but I was like, this is great.


								01:42:11.972 --> 01:42:14.213

								Like, you know, it's perfect.


								01:42:14.933 --> 01:42:15.013

								Um,


								01:42:16.627 --> 01:42:31.589

								So, but it's the kind of thing, it's the kind of thing that it's like, I would send to some people to watch, but like, it's, it would be like, I mean, where, where would you like, how, how, how,


								01:42:36.068 --> 01:42:37.790

								There's a million different angles on it.


								01:42:37.830 --> 01:42:43.194

								For example, I can show you Skyhorse book after Skyhorse book, starting with a book from 2008.


								01:42:45.216 --> 01:42:48.679

								In the epilogue of the book, it says that RFK is going to be vice president.


								01:42:50.541 --> 01:42:51.522

								It's a Skyhorse book.


								01:42:52.196 --> 01:43:04.064

								You know, the same book publisher that published two books in 2010 and 2012 by Andrew Wakefield about the MMR vaccine and the possible, you know, adjuvants.


								01:43:04.824 --> 01:43:12.790

								And the same book company that published the environmental and genetic causes of autism that I think's a bullshit book by a bullshit author.


								01:43:13.270 --> 01:43:18.954

								And then the same book company published all of Robert Malone's books, who I'm sure


								01:43:19.694 --> 01:43:26.577

								is a traitor to our grandkids and the reason why I got fired from CHD and revealed CHD as the operation that it is to me.


								01:43:27.057 --> 01:43:37.481

								I mean, we can talk about sky horse books, we can talk about biology, we can talk about people, we can talk about ideas, but it always comes back to the fact that, I mean,


								01:43:40.225 --> 01:43:42.246

								It's really simple ideas in the end.


								01:43:42.306 --> 01:43:43.827

								These people are just lying.


								01:43:43.887 --> 01:43:50.250

								And the only real debate is whether or not RFK knows or whether RFK is just being bewildered by people around him.


								01:43:50.290 --> 01:43:51.871

								That's the only debate in my head.


								01:43:52.411 --> 01:43:57.934

								And most people are pretty, pretty done with him and accept the fact that he's just part of that crew.


								01:43:58.914 --> 01:43:59.115

								Right.


								01:43:59.155 --> 01:43:59.615

								Exactly.


								01:43:59.755 --> 01:44:10.000

								I mean, yeah, which is, you know, why I brought up the whole thing recently, as you correctly inferred that, you know, when he, when his whole, like,


								01:44:10.529 --> 01:44:20.695

								comment about anti-Semitism, his official statement about anti-Semitism being like a health crisis, and which is, you know, so people were like, what the hell?


								01:44:20.735 --> 01:44:22.936

								So I'm, you know, want to use that as a jumping off point.


								01:44:22.977 --> 01:44:23.597

								I mean, the other thing.


								01:44:24.281 --> 01:44:39.578

								The thing that one of the things I found compelling in what you were saying, and you know, as I was trying to be more conversational, I asked you is, why would he want to know what clones are, unless he suspects that like, well, maybe that could be the explanation of what's happening here.


								01:44:39.638 --> 01:44:42.081

								That's kind of like, you know, if he's


								01:44:43.069 --> 01:45:03.353

								Well, then again, now you're, now you, again, you're, you're asking the right question, but you're going to get the detailed answer because the only way to understand it is detailed and what you need to now hear then just for this conversation between me and you is the reason why I think they asked me to look at infectious clones was because there is a way to spin that.


								01:45:05.013 --> 01:45:11.154

								And you can spin that as if you make an infectious clone of the magic RNA, then you can cause a pandemic.


								01:45:12.162 --> 01:45:12.923

								That's the spin.


								01:45:13.604 --> 01:45:14.305

								And it's wrong.


								01:45:14.725 --> 01:45:15.246

								It's wrong.


								01:45:15.506 --> 01:45:17.348

								But that's the spin they want to put on it.


								01:45:17.408 --> 01:45:21.994

								That if you make an infectious clone, then you're making a very dangerous bioweapon.


								01:45:22.034 --> 01:45:26.660

								What I would suggest to you is you're just making a pure quantity of something that otherwise would never be found.


								01:45:27.979 --> 01:45:29.060

								And that is the trick.


								01:45:29.120 --> 01:45:56.220

								They can lie about the potential of that pure quantity, but what that pure quantity does, and that's what the extraordinary thing, if you look at the contents of this pen, it's like three milliliters, three milliliters of pure DNA of the spike protein would be enough spike protein DNA to put it anywhere on earth, thousands of places, and it could be found with PCR for weeks after you put it there.


								01:45:56.900 --> 01:46:00.123

								And it would just have to be in water, not anything else.


								01:46:00.963 --> 01:46:11.311

								And that would be enough for them to find positivity anywhere in people, in hospitals, on cruise ships, and in laboratories and claim that they found it.


								01:46:11.391 --> 01:46:22.780

								So any biosecurity actor that wanted to create the illusion of finding a sequence or a sequence being found everywhere, it is trivial to do it.


								01:46:23.020 --> 01:46:23.861

								Like it's a joke.


								01:46:24.978 --> 01:46:29.882

								It would cost less than a thousand dollars and most of the cost would be the flight to go around putting it places.


								01:46:29.922 --> 01:46:30.382

								That's it.


								01:46:31.743 --> 01:46:39.328

								And they now have the existence quantities to make liters because that's how they make protein biologics.


								01:46:40.449 --> 01:46:51.517

								So it would be trivial for them to claim what they're finding is spontaneous when it could easily be planted or even easier it could have always been there.


								01:46:51.597 --> 01:46:52.338

								That's the trick.


								01:46:53.049 --> 01:47:02.300

								You know, if you claim that the Bible's spreading everywhere on earth and you're finding it wherever you look, in every library, in every hospital, in every hotel, well guess what?


								01:47:02.340 --> 01:47:03.942

								It's not spreading, it was already there.


								01:47:04.903 --> 01:47:05.123

								Yeah.


								01:47:06.645 --> 01:47:06.825

								Right.


								01:47:08.186 --> 01:47:11.809

								Again, this is, you know, you ask the question and the answer is there.


								01:47:11.909 --> 01:47:12.629

								I've thought of it.


								01:47:12.669 --> 01:47:17.553

								It's just that the answer is detailed enough so that, you know, lots of people glaze over.


								01:47:17.613 --> 01:47:21.055

								They want to understand it, but they don't want to work.


								01:47:21.575 --> 01:47:24.437

								They want to have a very simple, dumb explanation.


								01:47:24.477 --> 01:47:29.341

								Well, the dumb, simple explanation is it is for all the marbles, so yes, they lied to you.


								01:47:29.901 --> 01:47:32.984

								They want to enslave your grandkids so they lied to you.


								01:47:33.465 --> 01:47:37.909

								And they are told that they're being on the winning team if they go along with this lie.


								01:47:38.410 --> 01:47:39.751

								It's pretty simple, I think.


								01:47:40.732 --> 01:47:40.892

								Yeah.


								01:47:42.454 --> 01:47:43.995

								Yeah, this is well, this is the challenge.


								01:47:44.095 --> 01:47:48.780

								What about what about if instead of this interview that you interview me and Mark Kulak?


								01:47:48.840 --> 01:47:53.725

								Because Mark Kulak can probably keep me focused on the bigger picture better than I can keep myself focused.


								01:47:54.301 --> 01:47:57.703

								Well, I need to I mean, it's I mean, I'm I've never spoken to Mark.


								01:47:57.743 --> 01:47:58.703

								I'm happy to talk to him.


								01:47:59.104 --> 01:48:01.885

								I've watched I've watched his stream a little bit.


								01:48:01.965 --> 01:48:08.028

								I haven't watched much because I watch yours more when I'm like going to focus on that issue.


								01:48:08.048 --> 01:48:08.728

								But


								01:48:13.922 --> 01:48:23.789

								I mean, I'm open to that possibility, but really it should be, it's my job as the interviewer to, you know, make sure I'm sort of getting out of you what I want to get out.


								01:48:24.089 --> 01:48:25.130

								You never had a chance.


								01:48:25.210 --> 01:48:32.115

								So you don't know how much of a spout I am, you know, so now you, maybe you understand the geyser you're dealing with and you can craft.


								01:48:32.155 --> 01:48:33.856

								Yeah, yeah, no, which I appreciate.


								01:48:34.056 --> 01:48:35.577

								It's like, no, it's, it's awesome.


								01:48:35.657 --> 01:48:42.002

								It's, you know, it's much better than, uh, than the other, you know, the opposite that like, um, but, uh,


								01:48:43.095 --> 01:48:44.036

								Yeah, I have to.


								01:48:44.256 --> 01:48:44.816

								I have to.


								01:48:46.378 --> 01:48:47.779

								Basically, I'm going to have to.


								01:48:47.819 --> 01:48:53.923

								The thing is, I'm going to have to cut you off sometimes and I don't want to do that, but I'm but I'm going to have to sometimes.


								01:48:54.444 --> 01:48:55.024

								Does that make sense?


								01:48:55.204 --> 01:48:59.327

								You need a you need to have a buzzer and then then you can do it really easy.


								01:48:59.968 --> 01:49:00.548

								All right.


								01:49:03.711 --> 01:49:07.454

								OK, so, I mean, here's the thing I would have to I'll have to interject more.


								01:49:08.094 --> 01:49:09.715

								But if you.


								01:49:11.236 --> 01:49:11.617

								Can.


								01:49:13.641 --> 01:49:16.202

								try to be more concise.


								01:49:16.302 --> 01:49:20.042

								And I'm not saying that means don't talk about anything scientific or whatever.


								01:49:20.482 --> 01:49:21.823

								If it's essential, it's essential.


								01:49:21.903 --> 01:49:22.743

								Like, I get that.


								01:49:24.263 --> 01:49:28.164

								But like, what did RFK, you know, tell you?


								01:49:28.304 --> 01:49:33.425

								And, you know, how did you get involved with him and what was his response?


								01:49:33.885 --> 01:49:37.006

								Or why did you come to think this was not the case?


								01:49:37.206 --> 01:49:42.567

								I mean, give like a two minute explanation, if possible, where


								01:49:43.724 --> 01:49:46.065

								Um, I don't know.


								01:49:46.265 --> 01:49:49.147

								And then, and yeah, I don't know.


								01:49:49.307 --> 01:49:55.790

								It's, I'm asking you to do something that's, that's not exactly your, uh, your speed.


								01:49:56.830 --> 01:49:59.952

								Um, that, you know, is the opposite of what you do.


								01:49:59.972 --> 01:50:07.736

								It's, it's kind of in some way, it's, it's like the same as when I talk to like my rabbi in some way about like Judaism and, you know, stuff about like understanding.


								01:50:07.756 --> 01:50:09.817

								How about, how about just, uh,


								01:50:10.737 --> 01:50:15.419

								I mean, start recording, first of all, because I don't want to say anything smart that you like that it's not recorded.


								01:50:16.539 --> 01:50:24.203

								Well, what I want to do is kind of like reset in a way, because it's going to be at this point, it'll be so hard.


								01:50:24.323 --> 01:50:27.584

								I mean, yeah, but I mean, I get what you want to reset.


								01:50:27.664 --> 01:50:28.064

								I hear it.


								01:50:28.304 --> 01:50:33.867

								I just think of it from the perspective of I'm trying to put myself in your shoes, OK?


								01:50:33.887 --> 01:50:39.849

								It's not hard for you or your viewers to understand that that the that the social media narrative


								01:50:40.481 --> 01:50:52.146

								and that there are actors on social media that are actively following a script, which benefits their handlers, which benefits the piles of money that pay them.


								01:50:53.266 --> 01:51:04.791

								And the theater that is Gaza, which is not just a theater, but it's also real people, I get that, that theater is a very controlled theater.


								01:51:05.925 --> 01:51:11.790

								And you might be one of the few spontaneous, non-controlled voices in that theater, for all I know.


								01:51:13.392 --> 01:51:15.213

								Yeah, I feel that it's very controlled.


								01:51:15.233 --> 01:51:19.437

								The more I, oh man, it drives me crazy.


								01:51:19.917 --> 01:51:21.238

								And it's really the same.


								01:51:21.298 --> 01:51:27.644

								People don't understand that they're participating in a controlled, look at, okay, here's a perfect example.


								01:51:27.964 --> 01:51:31.427

								What's happening right now, okay.


								01:51:32.304 --> 01:51:38.489

								I mean, I could say a lot about this, but it's exactly the same way that you're saying how it's very much controlled.


								01:51:38.569 --> 01:51:40.230

								Most of the people don't realize it.


								01:51:41.030 --> 01:51:53.139

								And the way, like nobody will actually take... I mean, it's a great analogy because essentially nobody believes that RFK's, you know, a position on anti-Semitism is an informed one.


								01:51:54.020 --> 01:51:59.144

								Nobody believes that he's saying that because he goes to his grave believing that he's, you know,


								01:52:00.124 --> 01:52:01.445

								Speaking out on the rights.


								01:52:01.505 --> 01:52:03.925

								It's the same thing with gain-of-function viruses.


								01:52:03.985 --> 01:52:08.467

								If you're told that that's what the story is, then you go along with it if you're going to rise in this hierarchy.


								01:52:08.507 --> 01:52:08.887

								That's simple.


								01:52:08.907 --> 01:52:09.387

								Exactly.


								01:52:09.867 --> 01:52:11.648

								So that's the thing is like, you know what?


								01:52:11.968 --> 01:52:16.409

								What if we actively avoid getting into the science of it?


								01:52:17.229 --> 01:52:19.310

								And because it's like.


								01:52:20.870 --> 01:52:28.993

								And if you're like, look, I can prove that an RNA pandemic is completely fake.


								01:52:29.531 --> 01:52:32.732

								but it is not a real thing.


								01:52:33.092 --> 01:52:33.673

								I can prove it.


								01:52:33.713 --> 01:52:42.176

								You put me up against, to debate anybody, Robert Malone or RFK or any single one of them in a, I'll expose it.


								01:52:44.377 --> 01:52:53.601

								But they don't want, RFK is playing political games and does not wanna talk, like it makes you, you know what I mean?


								01:52:54.161 --> 01:52:56.382

								It's playing political games because


								01:52:57.631 --> 01:53:24.234

								i don't know you know i think you can't say i mean you could be like i can't say rfk uh... uh... lied to me or mistreated me or anything like that it is an essential absolutely important question to anyone who claims to care about public health about the way our country's going about are the future of our country our children our grandchildren and the fact that he


								01:53:25.069 --> 01:53:27.210

								would not do it and basically.


								01:53:28.430 --> 01:53:45.294

								Sent me on my on my way and went ahead and published this book, knowing that it is that it very well may be based on a totally faulty premise that is useful for, you know, some some.


								01:53:46.554 --> 01:53:50.217

								powerful interests really says everything.


								01:53:50.337 --> 01:53:53.119

								And there needs to be a lot more questions asked about that.


								01:53:53.279 --> 01:53:59.224

								And, you know, I mean, this is like what I would say if I were going on redacted again and talking about you or whatever.


								01:53:59.424 --> 01:54:03.267

								And this is what I tried to do the other day, that it's like, why the fuck is nobody talking about.


								01:54:04.428 --> 01:54:07.150

								Jake, who in this whole RFK, you know, I mean, those are the things.


								01:54:09.271 --> 01:54:12.514

								I get that, like, you've been through so much shit that you're like,


								01:54:14.525 --> 01:54:18.849

								You have you have your strengths and your personality and your character of what you do.


								01:54:19.029 --> 01:54:19.890

								You are a teacher.


								01:54:20.550 --> 01:54:24.394

								And like that's and it's not just since covid, you've been a teacher like you were teaching.


								01:54:24.554 --> 01:54:25.434

								Were you teaching before?


								01:54:25.494 --> 01:54:25.635

								No.


								01:54:26.055 --> 01:54:29.978

								Yeah, I taught I taught high school even before I decided to go into my PhD.


								01:54:30.038 --> 01:54:37.084

								No, this this seriously, the thing is, man, the problem the problem is, is that a teacher has a message and I have a priority message.


								01:54:37.705 --> 01:54:40.848

								I ultimately don't want to waste my time


								01:54:42.849 --> 01:54:44.450

								Talking about these people.


								01:54:44.470 --> 01:54:55.036

								I want to talk about the ideas that they consistently ignore and and ultimately the story right now is that that It isn't about a particular shot.


								01:54:55.136 --> 01:54:57.098

								They want to make it about a particular shot.


								01:54:57.198 --> 01:55:00.520

								It's about intramuscular injection in general and this is not a


								01:55:01.676 --> 01:55:26.933

								if if we can't make that into a political message i get it but i don't have a political message about robert f kennedy junior because he's just as bad as merrill nass and maryland and all these other people yeah yeah no i get it i get it it's just a tool it's something much bigger i'm just saying that's a jumping off point and it's like if the fact that i mean is what i said not true the fact if robert f kennedy is willing to publish a book


								01:55:28.700 --> 01:55:43.469

								his top advisor, or the scientist who he credited as the most important, essential in writing this book, says is false and told him so, that is a major, that's a scandal.


								01:55:43.769 --> 01:55:45.570

								That's scandalous, and that is political.


								01:55:45.770 --> 01:55:53.995

								It is, or it just reveals that there is a national security priority to collect the data and to have people think that there's pandemics, right?


								01:55:54.015 --> 01:55:54.275

								Both.


								01:55:54.336 --> 01:55:55.716

								That's what's behind the scandal.


								01:55:57.358 --> 01:56:00.641

								I'm saying it needs to be called a scandal and like okay fine.


								01:56:00.682 --> 01:56:14.558

								That's my job to do it I'm like the journalist who's you know seeing you know what you're doing and kind of and sees that story for what it is, but I just feel like we need to find a way


								01:56:15.612 --> 01:56:27.977

								a formula for this interview that's going to deliver your message, that's going to just get, I mean, your message.


								01:56:28.017 --> 01:56:37.140

								You don't have one, you know, one, like, I understand what, you know, you have, you've kind of boiled it down to like five or six points.


								01:56:37.320 --> 01:56:41.842

								RNA, RNA can't bandemic, intramuscular injection is dumb, etc.


								01:56:43.982 --> 01:56:51.896

								those are the points that you go after but like we need to find a way to pry in to the narrative and I think


								01:56:53.325 --> 01:56:54.286

								the RFK thing.


								01:56:54.386 --> 01:56:55.347

								It's just the jumping off.


								01:56:55.547 --> 01:56:56.928

								It's just the diving board to get.


								01:56:57.248 --> 01:56:57.769

								Do you know what I mean?


								01:56:58.709 --> 01:57:04.434

								Well, I mean, really, you know, that story is is him probably not wanting to do what he's doing right now.


								01:57:04.474 --> 01:57:11.740

								You know, the Mercury, the World Mercury Project was his thing, and that changed its name in 2018 to Children's Health Defense.


								01:57:11.760 --> 01:57:16.244

								So, I mean, the political angle on this is is deep, dude.


								01:57:16.344 --> 01:57:17.084

								I don't know how to


								01:57:18.446 --> 01:57:26.112

								I don't know, if you just want to say that I'm in the book but he doesn't talk to me anymore and why, that's all you can really say.


								01:57:26.452 --> 01:57:34.859

								No, no, there's like more I want to say about that, but there's like, you know, like I said, the question I had before


								01:57:37.138 --> 01:57:38.719

								After that is okay.


								01:57:38.739 --> 01:57:42.980

								So well, I kind of mixed in with that is like how did you come to this conclusion?


								01:57:43.060 --> 01:57:54.943

								which obviously is a scientific question and I mean what you were saying to me about Transfecting monkeys and then you have to kill them soon after that was like chilling for me.


								01:57:55.003 --> 01:58:00.545

								That's fucking terrifying everyone should be like that should that's that's a massive scandal and


								01:58:01.084 --> 01:58:02.786

								I don't think it's a massive scandal at all.


								01:58:02.826 --> 01:58:04.148

								Why is that a massive scandal?


								01:58:04.949 --> 01:58:06.230

								That's how science is done.


								01:58:06.290 --> 01:58:08.793

								That's how it's been done for years and years and years.


								01:58:08.833 --> 01:58:10.475

								No, no, I'm saying that that's what was done.


								01:58:10.535 --> 01:58:12.097

								Isn't that what was done to people then?


								01:58:12.918 --> 01:58:13.598

								No, no, no.


								01:58:13.678 --> 01:58:14.139

								That's the...


								01:58:17.503 --> 01:58:22.866

								I don't think people, the vast majority of people that were transfecting, it did not go in their brain.


								01:58:23.626 --> 01:58:27.709

								It could have, it could have, but these are directly injected to the brain.


								01:58:27.769 --> 01:58:30.470

								So it's a little different, but it's the same concept.


								01:58:30.550 --> 01:58:31.431

								It's the same tool.


								01:58:31.591 --> 01:58:31.811

								Yeah.


								01:58:32.371 --> 01:58:32.591

								Right.


								01:58:32.791 --> 01:58:33.071

								Okay.


								01:58:33.111 --> 01:58:33.232

								Yeah.


								01:58:33.272 --> 01:58:33.832

								So it's all right.


								01:58:33.852 --> 01:58:34.672

								It's not going into the brain.


								01:58:34.792 --> 01:58:35.753

								It could have though.


								01:58:35.813 --> 01:58:41.136

								And it definitely goes into the brain and babies because baby's blood brain barrier is not developed.


								01:58:42.173 --> 01:58:42.453

								Right.


								01:58:42.513 --> 01:58:48.195

								So like if you I mean, when you were explaining that technology, that was like bone chilling.


								01:58:48.275 --> 01:58:49.635

								And that's such an important thing.


								01:58:49.735 --> 01:58:52.556

								I mean, so there there are aspects of it that I think are.


								01:58:52.936 --> 01:58:55.477

								And remember, that's also part of the story, right?


								01:58:55.517 --> 01:59:01.358

								You get recruited into this book and you have this really important message also about the shot.


								01:59:01.478 --> 01:59:02.999

								And that's not in this book either.


								01:59:03.899 --> 01:59:05.739

								When can I tell everybody about that?


								01:59:05.799 --> 01:59:08.840

								Well, when we hire you at CHD and then they hired me at CHD.


								01:59:08.880 --> 01:59:10.421

								And when can I tell everybody about that?


								01:59:10.521 --> 01:59:11.461

								Well, I don't know.


								01:59:12.472 --> 01:59:13.953

								I mean, that's also important.


								01:59:14.033 --> 01:59:18.758

								It's all part of the same, you know, I saw the UFO that nobody else has seen.


								01:59:19.778 --> 01:59:28.026

								And now he's, you know, this, this whole measles thing that he's on, this measles thing was set up by Rolling Stone already in 2016.


								01:59:28.086 --> 01:59:29.507

								I mean, that's extraordinary.


								01:59:30.441 --> 01:59:34.244

								The idea that, you know, Mary Holland hasn't had to change her tune since 2015.


								01:59:35.044 --> 01:59:38.827

								And that we're now talking about the MMR again.


								01:59:38.847 --> 01:59:39.307

								It is.


								01:59:39.327 --> 01:59:40.548

								I, okay.


								01:59:40.668 --> 01:59:41.509

								I'm, I'm with you.


								01:59:41.549 --> 01:59:44.090

								The thing is, I think like, okay.


								01:59:44.130 --> 01:59:56.879

								When I ask you that stuff, when I ask you like what RFK told you and you know, how you, how you came to that conclusion and what RFK told you when you told him that


								01:59:57.608 --> 02:00:07.438

								when you start talking like it has to be a more concise answer because you start talking about Mary Holland and like people are not going to know who Mary Holland is.


								02:00:08.179 --> 02:00:14.545

								You know, people aren't people aren't going to know like the the intricacies of CHD in this kind of thing.


								02:00:14.605 --> 02:00:14.946

								And like,


								02:00:17.520 --> 02:00:22.744

								Yeah, again, it depends on the answer you want.


								02:00:22.784 --> 02:00:27.608

								If you want the biological one or the political one, the political one's been going on for a while.


								02:00:27.928 --> 02:00:42.899

								I mean, it essentially seems like Steve Bannon saw that the anti-vax movement could be used as a very effective populist right tool in the UK, and he recruited the same jackasses and brought them over here to America and did the same thing.


								02:00:43.860 --> 02:00:44.881

								with them.


								02:00:45.982 --> 02:00:52.986

								And at some point, RFK got roped into the same game, and I got roped into the same game.


								02:00:53.066 --> 02:00:56.569

								And once I figured out that these people weren't playing to win, I went on my own.


								02:00:56.629 --> 02:00:57.389

								That's where I am.


								02:00:58.390 --> 02:01:01.352

								And so the hit piece on Robert F. Kennedy Jr.


								02:01:01.432 --> 02:01:11.859

								is that he had the franchise player, and CHD had a franchise player that could have ended all of this nonsense, and they chose to let me go off on my own and ignore me.


								02:01:12.748 --> 02:01:14.189

								And that is all those people.


								02:01:14.329 --> 02:01:18.291

								And all those people are behind RFK, including Robert F. Kennedy Jr.


								02:01:18.331 --> 02:01:21.472

								and Mary Holland, who was his campaign manager in the first instance.


								02:01:22.853 --> 02:01:29.697

								And Tony Lyons of Skyhorse Publishing is still his main advisor, along with Del Bigtree.


								02:01:29.717 --> 02:01:30.897

								I mean, it's just absurd.


								02:01:31.037 --> 02:01:31.678

								It's absurd.


								02:01:32.563 --> 02:01:42.394

								And the fact of the matter is, is that the right in America has been captured by these posers who are all essentially Democratic operatives as far as their political history goes.


								02:01:42.434 --> 02:01:45.116

								They can't possibly actually really be Republicans.


								02:01:45.854 --> 02:01:51.000

								So it's so weird that, I mean, I have a hard time explaining it, but that's the gist of it.


								02:01:51.060 --> 02:01:57.247

								I thought I got on the right team, and very clearly I got on a team that was already in the business of sabotage a long time ago.


								02:01:58.028 --> 02:02:01.452

								And it's possible that even right now, Robert F. Kennedy Jr.


								02:02:01.532 --> 02:02:01.932

								is just a


								02:02:03.767 --> 02:02:10.432

								a coattail riding person who, if they could have gotten him into the vice presidency, they definitely would have, but they didn't.


								02:02:10.532 --> 02:02:21.361

								And so now he's here and I don't know what he's doing, but he's not doing what he promised he would do all those years ago when he changed the name of World Mercury Project to CSD.


								02:02:21.381 --> 02:02:22.883

								I think what you're saying is perfect.


								02:02:23.043 --> 02:02:30.669

								Like, I think if I ask you that same question, how did you come to this conclusion and what did


								02:02:31.732 --> 02:02:33.273

								You know what happened when you told him that?


								02:02:33.313 --> 02:02:35.734

								And he's and, you know, he basically.


								02:02:37.314 --> 02:02:40.276

								Gave you, you know, he said, this isn't the book for that, OK?


								02:02:41.816 --> 02:02:44.438

								But, you know, and why then?


								02:02:45.098 --> 02:02:53.742

								You know, I think Robert Kennedy is basically part of a bigger operation that's been going back decades that aims to achieve this.


								02:02:53.902 --> 02:03:01.185

								And we are, you know, there are a variety of characters and actors who have


								02:03:01.938 --> 02:03:08.204

								um, who are in place to basically guide a narrative.


								02:03:09.224 --> 02:03:14.889

								Um, you know, I mean, you put it, you clearly put it better than I do, but, but that kind of thing.


								02:03:15.410 --> 02:03:21.795

								Um, I mean, I think that would, that would be a good way to answer it.


								02:03:22.035 --> 02:03:22.536

								It's just like,


								02:03:25.362 --> 02:03:31.525

								Some of it has to be broad strokes and there are certain things we'll really dive into and certain things we won't.


								02:03:31.945 --> 02:03:34.126

								That are like better just on your stream.


								02:03:34.206 --> 02:03:34.707

								Do you know what I mean?


								02:03:35.067 --> 02:03:35.327

								Yeah.


								02:03:38.168 --> 02:03:38.909

								That's my feeling.


								02:03:40.589 --> 02:03:44.631

								So I think only because of my schedule we're gonna have to try it again.


								02:03:44.932 --> 02:03:45.392

								Oh man.


								02:03:45.972 --> 02:03:46.312

								Stop.


								02:03:46.793 --> 02:03:47.313

								Get out of here.


								02:03:48.593 --> 02:03:51.636

								Um, no, I have to take the boys to basketball soon.


								02:03:52.416 --> 02:03:53.457

								Um, yeah, it's almost two.


								02:03:53.777 --> 02:03:54.858

								Um, okay.


								02:03:54.918 --> 02:03:58.221

								Well, um, are you willing to do this with me again?


								02:03:58.241 --> 02:04:01.383

								I mean, I know it's not start tomorrow morning again, if that's what you want.


								02:04:01.423 --> 02:04:07.468

								I mean, I, I, I think that you, if you can give me your platform or a very, very important opportunity.


								02:04:07.528 --> 02:04:11.431

								So I want, I want you to get the sound bite you want.


								02:04:11.632 --> 02:04:15.014

								I just don't want it to be able to be misconstrued by anybody.


								02:04:15.054 --> 02:04:15.455

								That's all.


								02:04:15.755 --> 02:04:16.495

								Um, other than that.


								02:04:17.301 --> 02:04:17.481

								let's