Stream.Transcripts/twitch/2441502474 (2025-04-24) - T.../2441502474 (2025-04-24) - T...


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								Testing 1, 2.


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								Test 1, 2.


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								This is Gigaohm Biological, a high-resistance, low-noise information brief brought to you by a biologist.


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								You can share this stream at stream.gigaohm.bio.


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								If you want to be notified of the stream, please send an email to that address on the screen.


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								I'm going to start the stream quite quick today.


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								No big introduction.


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								I think one of the themes of my work over the last five years has been trying to get the noise out of the way, to try and get the specks of dust out of our eyes so that we can clearly see where we are.


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								I've tried to remain focused on the biology, I've tried not to take the bait on social media, and I've tried to encourage you all to love your neighbors and not the


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								the individuals, the imaginary people on social media, but your real neighbors.


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								And I think we all still have a lot of work to do in that regard.


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								I'm also trying to teach a new biology 101.


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								And that's a lot of work.


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								That's a book, maybe two books.


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								That's a high school course.


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								And so I'm pretty busy with that in the background, and I'm really passionate about it.


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								And so those courses are coming, but today was really such an important chance, opportunity to talk to someone that I decided not to pass up on it.


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								So the normal, you know, the normal program today, which would be GigaOM Biological's New Biology 101 and a lecture about that.


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								We are going to bypass that and try to do something a little different and take advantage of where we are.


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								The voice you're hearing is that of Jonathan Cooey.


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								I am the chief biologist here in the back of my garage in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.


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								You can find my work on the Library of Medicine's PubMed website under cooey-jj, the first two initials.


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								I helped Robert F. Kennedy Jr.


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								write the Wuhan cover-up book, and now he ignores me.


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								I was also hired by Children's Health Defense, and then they fired me.


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								I'm a good friend of Jay Bhattacharya, but since he got a job as NIH director, he doesn't call me anymore.


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								I'm also good buddies with a guy in Tokyo who


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								works with Steve Kirsch and I also have a fan on Substack who steals my work and pretends it hers while she's arguing with people like Claire Craig and Pierre Corey who are known meddlers in this multinational sort of scheme to trick everybody about about public health and and so anyway, she writes a lot of this stuff with a guy from Panda named Jonathan Engler.


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								Anyway,


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								You might not know that you've been seeing my work in their work.


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								You might not have known where this is.


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								But today, Giga Home Biological is doing a special report.


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								I'm going to interview a woman by the name of Paula Adkin.


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								And I see that is spelled wrong there.


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								That's supposed to be E-N.


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								There we go.


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								And I think it's really important to put this into perspective, so just let me put myself down here really quick.


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								I'm making the argument that all the populations in the UK and in Scotland and in the Netherlands and in Germany and in America and in Japan and in China


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								all had an anticipated rise in all-cause mortality coming.


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								They had an excess number of old people and a shortage of young people.


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								That's one of the reasons why across Europe and in America there's this move to migrate people here because they're trying to fill in the bottom of the population pyramid that's really top-heavy.


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								But that top-heavy population pyramid was anticipated for decades.


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								And what they did was they murdered people in Scotland, they murdered people in the UK, they murdered people in the United States, and they told us that it was a virus that was spreading, when in reality, it was just a lot of sophisticated lies covering up that murder and an anticipated rise in all-cause mortality that made it real convenient for them to do it.


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								That's what this myth of an RNA pandemic is based on.


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								Now, the really sketchy part is,


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								is that it's for all the marbles, it's for all the grandchildren of Earth.


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								And involved in this sort of wrestling ourselves, breaking ourselves out of this mystery-solving exercise of COVID-19, we have been led to the goal by people like Robert F. Kennedy Jr., and ICANN, and Big Tree, and


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								and people as far back as Andrew Wakefield, their golden boy, the guy who started that movement, this fake anti-vaccine movement, which was actually probably fake in its roots.


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								And we've been kind of waxing intellectual about how weird it is that Andrew Wakefield has a paper with Peter Daszak about measles,


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								And now 20 years later, he's still kind of involved with MMR and measles and how the same act that he did in the 90s and early 2000s in the UK seems to be recycled behind CHD and ICANN in America right now, behind the Trump administration and the rise of Robert F. Kennedy Jr.


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								And so it's a pretty bold statement to make.


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								I think talking about


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								understanding this background is really where it's at.


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								That's what I'm trying to do with my biology.


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								I'm not really a sleuth, but I do know that this bad biology where they say that DNA is everything and it's all genes and evolution is real because DNA is real, this bad biology is being used to cover up that murder.


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								This bad biology is what the PCR test is based on.


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								It's what all these stupid protocols are based on, and this clueless nature of this idea that we murdered people, that not giving people antibiotics is murder.


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								It's not just the wrong protocol.


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								And so I'm trying to coach everybody on the way out of this with this new biology, life is a pattern, integrity with a trajectory across time, and that's all what we were due today.


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								Imagine the possibility that we could talk to somebody who already knew that the hypothetical fake anti-vax movement that I was kind of just calling out to see what people would say at first really is, has its roots in a scientific fraud, has its roots in a scientific snake oil salesman that was probably recruited and put in place decades ago to curate a narrative


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								so that nobody would ever realize that intramuscular injection in general is just dumb.


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								That putting a combination of substances into the arm or to the buttocks of a healthy young child is absurd.


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								And today I have the


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								privilege of talking to the mom of child number four.


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								And to put that into perspective, what I mean to show you is child number four here in this book, Callous Disregard.


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								It is a Skyhorse publishing book.


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								Skyhorse is the book publisher that Children's Health Defense sells all the books of that


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								published all three of Robert Malone's books, published James Lyons Wyler's book, and published multiple books for Andrew Wakefield.


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								This is his first.


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								The second one was Waging War on the Autistic Child, which was published in 2012.


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								This book was published in 2010.


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								And so to put Paula's


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								story into perspective.


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								I wanted to read the first chapter of this book.


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								Maybe I should, maybe I'm being really, this is not the right way to do it.


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								I apologize.


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								Let me switch back over here and cut and put Paula on the screen.


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								Thank you very much, Paula, for joining me.


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								Everybody can see you and hear you.


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								With your permission, before I ask you to introduce yourself and kind of take the floor, I'd like to read the first chapter of this book just because I think it will refresh your memory as to the


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								I've been calling it when we talked yesterday and this morning, an oversimplified version of your experience with your son, your successes with your son, and your experience with these people in terms of how they, I guess the best words would be that they co-opted your son's


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								history, medical history, and tried to make it something that fit a narrative that they probably already had hatched out before you ever met them.


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								So let's just do that quick.


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								Let me slide over here.


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								How would I do this?


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								I would do this.


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								I would do this.


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								Yes, there we go.


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								And then I put myself down in the corner here.


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								So this is chapter one of the Callous Disregard book.


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								On February 28th, 1998, 12 colleagues and I published a case series paper in The Lancet, and that is the paper that features Paula's son.


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								A respected medical journal as an early report.


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								The paper described the clinical findings of 12 children with an autistic spectrum disorder occurring in association with a mild to moderate inflammation of the large intestine.


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								This was accompanied by swelling of the lymph glands in the intestinal lining, predominantly in the last part of the small intestine.


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								Contemporaneously, parents of nine children associated with onset symptoms, associated onset of symptoms with measles, mumps, and rubella vaccine exposure, eight of whom were reported on in the original paper.


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								And so your child was number four, is that correct?


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								Yeah.


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								And so the significance of these findings has been overshadowed by misunderstanding, misrepresentation, and a concerted systematic effort to discredit the work.


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								This effort, and specifically the complaint of a freelance journalist, I think his name is Brian Deer, had an intense political desire to subvert inquiry into the issues of vaccine safety.


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								and legal redress for vaccine damage, culminated in the longest running, most expensive fitness to practice case ever to come before.


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								So it's a pretty interesting, it seems like it's a cut and dried case.


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								He had eight kids, they were all the same.


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								And he's now suffered apparently 20 years of really just having the roughest life, having to deal with the consequences of


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								of having come out with your child as one of the stories.


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								So what's not right about that angle?


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								Please, please, I apologize.


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								Please take the time to introduce yourself, where you're from, how long this has really been.


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								Try to put it in perspective like you did yesterday as much as you can.


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								And I have plenty of notes here to try and steer you and keep you on focus, but you did wonderfully yesterday.


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								I'm sure you're gonna do fine today.


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								Well, what I would like to say is there's more to the Lancet study than what we see.


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								I in the world has been totally fooled by all of those in the controversy.


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								Colin, my son, is 38 now.


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								It's been 27 years this has been going on.


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								The study was done in 1996.


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								Well, he went to the hospital in 1996.


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								I'd just like to say a little bit about him before he had the vaccinations.


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								He was born double breech, he had jaundice and he was a month early but he was a very happy contented baby and then when he was 11 months old he started getting a lot of infections, chest infections, throat infections, ear infections, gastroenteritis and he had antibiotic after antibiotic.


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								I don't know how many he had but just almost every month he was on antibiotics for a couple of years.


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								what you did is your doctors told you as a parent you assumed that they knew best but what started happening was they started getting what was called patchy development so you would develop so far and then you would be at standstill for a little while and you didn't lose any skills at first


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								but he did start getting diarrhoea from around about a year old.


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								And that's when he was being given all the antibiotics.


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								And I think what it was doing was it was ruining his immune system and it was destroying the good bacteria that we need.


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								But I didn't know anything about things like that in them days, so I just kept taking him back to the doctors all the time.


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								And then


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								One of the first things I noticed was he had started walking around the furniture when he was around about 11-12 months but then he just never walked and then he started crawling.


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								So he was kind of losing skills a little bit there and he was potty trained and then he lost that.


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								And then when he was 18 months, I realized he had stopped talking.


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								He had said some words, mom, dad, nana, hello, all appropriate and at appropriate times, and he had just lost all of his speech.


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								But he was still happy, still content.


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								He still played, but his development seemed to be slowing down a little bit.


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								So I started getting some investigations done and he ended up having bromelain as he has and he ended up having a hearing aid, but he's not deaf.


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								And then what happened was he just become more and more ill.


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								And then he did get diagnosed as having learning disabilities, but I was told that when he was eight, he might be like five-year-old.


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								But he didn't appear to have autism initially, but when I've looked back now, he did start having some signs when he was around about two, it's just I didn't know the signs at that time.


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								But because he was so happy and content, I wasn't really that worried.


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								And then what happened?


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								And so at this time, he did at this time, he didn't have acute GI problems.


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								No, he did have diarrhea, but it got much, much worse later.


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								So what happened was he at the age four, he got MMR.


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								and DPT, you said, DPT vaccinations all in one day.


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								So you've got six vaccinations on one day.


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								I don't know why he was sent for that many, because I have since read that that should never, ever happen.


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								But I didn't know that.


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								You just did what you were told to do.


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								And there was no immediate reaction that I can recall.


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								But within a couple of weeks, he did start, he started


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								getting a little bit hyperactive, but within six weeks he had lost every single skill that he had.


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								The only thing he was left able to do was feed himself with his phone.


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								And he went hyperactive.


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								He didn't sleep.


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								I got two to three hours sleep every night for the next few years.


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								And I put him on a diet.


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								And he just didn't know who I was.


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								And he was an absolute total world of his own.


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								He lost his eye contact, which you can see on the photographs.


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								He was a beautiful, smiling baby before he had lost his eye contact.


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								And he was just...


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								He was just in a total daze and he became very noise sensitive.


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								Yeah, that's the photograph.


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								I think that was about a year and a half after the one where he's got no eye contact.


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								He's got his hands on his ears because he couldn't bear noise.


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								So when I used to take him out, if there was a bus went past or a motorbike or anything like that, he would have a massive tantrum in the middle of the street because he couldn't bear the noise.


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								He used to hit his head with his hands all the time.


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								And it was because he didn't like the noise.


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								He didn't like crowds.


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								And in them days, there was only one in 10,000 autistic children.


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								So my son was the only one in the area and there was nobody else.


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								So when I used to take him into the local town, he would have these mass tantrums in the town and people would look at me and say, has that mother got no control over that child?


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								But nobody knew, you know,


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								that he had been normal and this had just kind of happened within weeks really.


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								So like I had remembered seeing a documentary a year or two before on autism and I was asking the question, is he autistic?


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								But initially I was being told no because he still did have some affection at first but then he did lose that in time as well.


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								But the other thing that happened within a couple of months of getting all of those vaccinations was the diarrhoea got very, very severe.


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								And he had diarrhoea over 10, 11, 12 times a day.


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								And it was very foul smelling, watery.


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								And it just went straight through him.


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								And he was in a lot of pain.


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								And he used to scream on and off all day in pain.


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								He was banging his head off the walls.


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								He was banging his feet off the radiators.


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								And it was just his way of trying to communicate that he was in all this pain.


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								And the only way I could calm him was to literally get him on the floor and kind of roll my arms around him and massage him.


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								And there was nothing else I could do for him.


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								And one of the other noticeable things was I had a group of friends that I had been friends with for years when we all went to college together.


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								and I had to stop him coming to the house because my son used to get really really upset because there was a few other little children there and he couldn't bear the noise and he couldn't bear being in a room where there was more than one person talking at a time and he used to go up to his bedroom to get out the way and so I had to stop all socializing and he had to be on his own really.


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								So then what happened after that was, it was mother's gut instinct really, but I knew that he was reacting to phones.


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								By this time he had started reacting to phones.


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								Can I pause you for a second?


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								Can I pause you for a second?


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								This is not meant any other way than your phone, your phone microphone combined with your accent sometimes makes it challenging for some of these Americans over here.


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								So she's saying, she's saying that,


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								that she was sure that he was reacting to food.


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								It was a mother's instinct.


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								She even had a pun there where she's like, it's a mother's gut instinct.


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								So she's about to explain what she did in response to this.


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								So just making sure everybody knows what you're saying and maybe you can catch up.


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								So go ahead, please.


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								I'll try and talk a little bit slower.


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								No, it's okay, really.


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								It's just hard to mix these sounds together.


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								So go ahead.


								19:18.680 --> 19:22.923

								So he was nearly six years old and I decided to put him on a diet.


								19:23.243 --> 19:31.328

								And I realized that it was every Sunday night when he was getting sweets off my mother that he would never sleep at all on that night.


								19:31.348 --> 19:33.529

								So I thought when he's reacting to the colorings.


								19:34.410 --> 19:42.014

								So what I did was I put him on a diet and there was no books in them days, no internet, nothing to help you, nothing written on autism.


								19:43.055 --> 19:46.097

								So I put him on a wheat-free, dairy-free,


								19:46.770 --> 19:49.571

								sugar-free and added a free diet.


								19:50.652 --> 19:52.213

								And the first week was hell.


								19:53.093 --> 19:55.114

								But I didn't really know anything then.


								19:55.214 --> 19:56.835

								I nearly took him off the diet.


								19:57.996 --> 20:02.898

								But it was all the toxins coming out of his body, as I learned years later.


								20:03.398 --> 20:08.201

								And on the seventh night, the day I was going to stop it, he slept all night for 12 hours.


								20:08.721 --> 20:10.482

								and he hadn't done that for about three years.


								20:12.423 --> 20:16.104

								So that was the start of like some healing taking place.


								20:17.004 --> 20:20.386

								And he's almost slept every night ever since, unless he's got the wrong food.


								20:22.446 --> 20:23.627

								No interruptions at all.


								20:23.647 --> 20:27.068

								And then I healed his bowels.


								20:27.128 --> 20:28.289

								It took us about a year.


								20:29.789 --> 20:31.710

								But I didn't just use diet.


								20:31.830 --> 20:36.272

								I also used probiotics and antifungals


								20:36.992 --> 20:44.394

								because I believe that he got candida, which is a structure of the bowel and I believe that was brought on by the overuse of antibiotics.


								20:46.555 --> 20:55.817

								So I did that and I did get some setbacks as I was doing that because I was obviously disturbing the bowel and he did get some bouts of diarrhea again.


								20:55.837 --> 21:01.779

								And I had a local dietician that wanted to get involved and she was wanting to introduce foods.


								21:02.419 --> 21:06.001

								Again, far too quickly and too many foods at a time.


								21:06.401 --> 21:12.663

								And he started reacting again with his behavior problems and his gut problems.


								21:12.803 --> 21:16.185

								So I told the dietician I wanted to do it on my own.


								21:19.026 --> 21:21.287

								And then it took just over a year.


								21:21.307 --> 21:24.528

								He did get a couple of really bad infections in that time as well.


								21:24.948 --> 21:30.050

								But after about 12, 13 months, his bowel problems were gone.


								21:31.273 --> 21:32.894

								and he had been very, very ill.


								21:34.154 --> 21:40.957

								The pain went, so he wasn't hitting his head anymore, he wasn't banging his head off the walls anymore, it had all been pain-related.


								21:42.157 --> 21:46.899

								So, call it what you want to, I'd healed, I always say healed, healed his gut.


								21:49.400 --> 21:59.244

								So I did that, and then what happened was a guy called Paul Shattuck, he's from Sunderland University in the UK,


								22:00.485 --> 22:02.546

								and he's an autism researcher.


								22:02.566 --> 22:12.253

								I found out what I was doing with the diet and he asked if he could come out and see us and talk about the effects that I had been getting.


								22:12.593 --> 22:14.275

								Can you spell Paul's last name?


								22:15.656 --> 22:21.320

								Yes, it's S-H-A-T-T-O-C-K.


								22:21.960 --> 22:22.681

								Very good, thank you.


								22:24.537 --> 22:39.764

								He came out in October 1994, and he spent a good four hours or so at the house, and he said he was with his daughter at the time, who was doing some kind of study around that subject.


								22:39.804 --> 22:41.004

								That's what he had called his.


								22:41.465 --> 22:43.446

								But how would he have heard of you?


								22:43.506 --> 22:44.626

								How would he have heard of you?


								22:45.687 --> 22:51.389

								I'm not sure, but I've been trying to think back, and I've got a lot of notes, you know, in different places.


								22:54.625 --> 23:21.927

								there's another story behind that that because I was all at the time I was getting newsletters from um rimland in in in america bernard rimland um he ran like an autism research unit okay in america and I had been getting newsletters from there and he was a guy that had an autistic child um and they were in they were doing different therapies and things um


								23:23.673 --> 23:26.357

								So I don't know if it was something to do with that.


								23:29.682 --> 23:34.049

								After I put him on the diet, I found out about a group called the Allergy Induced Autism Group.


								23:35.260 --> 23:37.102

								and which is a British group.


								23:40.065 --> 23:43.709

								And so I don't know if it was through one of those people.


								23:43.769 --> 23:46.332

								I can't remember exactly how I got in touch with them.


								23:46.812 --> 23:53.199

								But I do know the year before he came out that I had spoke to somebody on the phone and I had I actually wrote to them.


								23:53.219 --> 23:55.161

								So I don't know where I got the information from.


								23:55.221 --> 23:58.124

								But I wrote to them asking for information on autism.


								23:59.708 --> 24:13.383

								So anyway he came out and I gave him what he said in a letter within days was copious amounts of information and then he had a theory


								24:14.884 --> 24:27.428

								I mean one of the things that I was quite surprised about years later was I had mentioned Dr Wakefield who I had been told about and I had mentioned about vaccines causing autism and he denied that he'd ever heard of Dr Wakefield.


								24:27.448 --> 24:31.530

								He said he had never heard of him and he had never heard of vaccines causing autism.


								24:32.250 --> 24:38.435

								But I know this is a lie now, because I found out years later that he had already been doing some research with Dr. Wakefield.


								24:40.557 --> 24:50.785

								And they were researching something to do with peptides that were derived from incomplete breakdown of wheat and milk.


								24:51.405 --> 24:52.466

								Wow.


								24:53.907 --> 24:54.488

								OK.


								24:55.949 --> 24:56.850

								This is crazy.


								24:58.406 --> 25:03.110

								But I had told him that I had my son on a wheat and dairy-free diet.


								25:04.010 --> 25:10.375

								But what he said at the meeting was, I'm not sure what he meant by it, but he said I was four months ahead of his research.


								25:10.915 --> 25:20.382

								I don't know if he meant I'd started my diet four months before he started doing his research, but I think he had just started his research when he came to see me.


								25:21.882 --> 25:31.007

								But I did, it can be, somebody might be able to find out, but him and Wakefield apparently had done this research, and I thought it was just Paul Shattuck.


								25:31.067 --> 25:35.029

								I knew nothing about Wakefield doing it until I read about it in 2016.


								25:35.529 --> 25:36.029

								Wow.


								25:38.090 --> 25:40.551

								That's, it's a weird admission, right?


								25:40.591 --> 25:44.013

								Because you don't know why they would lie to you, but clearly he's lying to you.


								25:44.053 --> 25:46.394

								I mean, if the notes are right, he's lying to you.


								25:46.454 --> 25:47.695

								That's remarkable.


								25:49.182 --> 26:01.040

								so he okay go ahead sorry i interrupted you my bad so what is paul what what does paul try to do does he steal your does he steal your ideas or does he interview you about the diet a lot or not really


								26:02.763 --> 26:16.611

								Well, he just came to the house, he just wanted all of the information on what I had done and what positive things I had gotten out of it, you know, like healing his gut, which I think I'd already said on the phone, but like he came out to get lots of detail.


								26:17.111 --> 26:21.953

								But I've always been a note-taker, so I give him loads of notes.


								26:22.674 --> 26:26.756

								I give him everything I've given him, all of his reactions and things.


								26:30.322 --> 26:32.844

								So that was that.


								26:33.724 --> 26:38.767

								But one of the next things that happened, there was a sequence of events, really.


								26:38.788 --> 26:43.751

								I had already started going to a carer center where I live in North Shields.


								26:45.192 --> 26:47.993

								And there was a lady there called Sandy McKean.


								26:48.554 --> 26:50.775

								And she was a nurse advisor.


								26:51.616 --> 26:54.358

								And she had an autistic son.


								26:54.938 --> 26:57.780

								And she believed that the vaccines had damaged him.


								26:58.760 --> 27:11.938

								So I was going down there, like to go to kind of a support group type of thing, and there was a note on the wall, like a printout, and it was a story of a child.


								27:12.038 --> 27:16.103

								I can't remember if it was her child or if it was somebody else's because it was a long time ago.


								27:16.864 --> 27:21.626

								but it was about a child and I couldn't believe that it just sounded like my child.


								27:21.806 --> 27:42.374

								This child apparently had had MMR and he had regressed, lost skills, got bowel problems and so I started talking to Sandy and she was guiding and advising us on what to do and she thought that it was MMR that had caused his problems


								27:43.715 --> 28:05.475

								So what I had done was set up a support group with jabs from a place called Cheshire and as far as I know it was the only other jabs group within England and it was a lady called Jackie Fletcher that had set it up and ran this jabs group.


								28:09.395 --> 28:17.383

								So that was within weeks, eight weeks I think, or it was within weeks anyway of meeting Paul Shatner.


								28:18.204 --> 28:21.887

								So now let me just clarify for everybody listening as I'm taking notes here.


								28:21.967 --> 28:26.011

								So somebody by the name of Sandy McKean has an autistic son,


								28:27.152 --> 28:49.639

								that she's blaming on vaccines and they kind of happen to meet or come in contact because Paula sees a poster at the place where she goes every once in a while that seems to describe another child that's eerily similar to hers and her experience up until this point has been that her son is the only example she knows of.


								28:50.319 --> 28:57.021

								So at the time, it seemed very serendipitous and she probably was very happy or maybe got a little bit of hope from that.


								28:57.562 --> 29:10.746

								But in retrospect, after years and years of everything else that's gone on, it almost seems like they came to her town and established a jabs group in her town specifically because her kid is in that town.


								29:10.786 --> 29:13.227

								Am I kind of getting that feeling right?


								29:14.531 --> 29:16.193

								I think so, yeah, yeah.


								29:16.453 --> 29:27.563

								I mean, at the time I believed everybody and I trusted everybody and I didn't realise there was any power of people, but it just seems it was a sequence of events that happened.


								29:28.584 --> 29:38.193

								So what happened after that, which was again, very shortly after that, it was September 94 that Paul came to see me and then in November,


								29:39.967 --> 29:47.413

								94, the 19th of November 94, to be precise, there was a meeting at a town hall in the next town to me.


								29:47.433 --> 30:02.964

								In that meeting, the people that were there included Richard Ball, who was the solicitor from Hodge Jones and Allens, I think it was called initially,


								30:04.731 --> 30:18.062

								was down south in London I think it was and he was the main solicitor that was dealing with the MMR cases and so he was there and there was somebody called Dr Corville from the public health laboratory


								30:19.281 --> 30:21.644

								and Jackie Fletcher from JABS.


								30:22.284 --> 30:39.982

								She came up from Cheshire and obviously Sandy was there and there was there was lots of other people there but there was a newspaper article which I do have a copy of and it actually said it's titled JABS safety fear for flood hotline


								30:41.411 --> 30:49.656

								And it talks about Sandy and how she's been inundated with phone calls from people as far as Australia.


								30:51.417 --> 30:59.802

								And it talks about the MMR and then it tells you about this meeting at the town hall and when it's going to be and the people that are going to be there.


								31:00.703 --> 31:10.469

								So I actually went to that meeting and they were basically guiding people on taking legal action.


								31:13.779 --> 31:34.287

								So, but what, what Sandy had, I think she'd already suggested it, was for me to see a solicitor in Newcastle and what the local solicitor, and I went to see this solicitor in 1995, and I'd give them all the details about what had happened to Colin, about his, you know, his history, and, and,


								31:38.115 --> 31:38.575

								left it.


								31:38.635 --> 31:47.641

								What happened was, well actually it was a man solicitor at first, but what happened was he left the case lying on his desk for six months and never heard anything.


								31:48.341 --> 31:54.905

								So I wrote, I wrote to them and then the solicitor that was in charge seen it and got the file back out.


								31:56.366 --> 32:01.069

								But after a while, she kind of said that she didn't think I was going to get legal aid.


								32:03.362 --> 32:10.584

								But she also, at the same time, was writing to the main solicitors and telling them about my case.


								32:10.764 --> 32:14.364

								But I actually think I was being guided towards the main solicitors.


								32:17.025 --> 32:21.205

								You know, whether that was deliberate, whether they left it lying for six months, I don't know.


								32:21.285 --> 32:24.446

								But I was guided towards the main solicitors.


								32:25.326 --> 32:29.407

								So I went back to see Sandy because I was obviously in touch with her quite a bit.


								32:30.942 --> 32:51.011

								Let me just say while you're here to make sure that the parallel is seen here because, and you might not be aware of this, but in America, the lawsuits that are fighting against COVID or COVID mandates or COVID injuries or COVID protocols or whatever,


								32:51.969 --> 32:56.431

								are being sort of herded into a couple different groups, right?


								32:56.811 --> 33:05.876

								Children's Health Defense has some lawyers, ICANN has some lawyers, and you can't really find an independent lawyer to take your case and do it.


								33:05.976 --> 33:14.060

								And you're sort of left in the lurch until you find your way into one of these groups of people that I don't think is ever going to fight for you.


								33:14.100 --> 33:15.421

								And so it's a very curious


								33:16.181 --> 33:24.828

								part of the story for me that you sought, you know, independent legal address and then ended up having to go with everybody else anyway.


								33:24.888 --> 33:28.371

								So I don't think you're crazy for thinking that you were funneled there.


								33:29.672 --> 33:31.013

								Yeah.


								33:31.293 --> 33:39.080

								Just before I forget, because I'm going on to something different, but I'll just mention it could be absolutely totally coincidence, but Sandy McKean was actually murdered.


								33:40.794 --> 33:44.976

								around about 2000, 2001, at the height of the controversy.


								33:46.757 --> 33:49.698

								I mean, obviously, people can look that up if they want to.


								33:49.758 --> 33:56.761

								I remember looking it up myself, and from what I remember reading, she got murdered in her own bed overnight.


								33:57.862 --> 34:01.803

								And it was apparently from somebody that she was seeing on the internet.


								34:01.823 --> 34:05.425

								She was apparently having an affair and seeing somebody once a fortnight on the internet.


								34:06.653 --> 34:10.978

								and apparently the next day they got caught.


								34:11.658 --> 34:19.727

								I'm just mentioning that because it just seems like there's been a few murders amongst people that are involved in this controversy.


								34:20.528 --> 34:23.271

								Can you give me Sandy's last name?


								34:24.612 --> 34:25.133

								McKean.


								34:25.833 --> 34:28.296

								It's M-C and then K-E-A-N?


								34:29.574 --> 34:33.356

								Yeah, I think that's how you spell it, yeah.


								34:33.416 --> 34:35.117

								She had an autistic son as well.


								34:37.758 --> 34:39.879

								So you went to the town hall meeting.


								34:40.439 --> 34:41.320

								That's where you left off.


								34:42.840 --> 34:46.682

								Yeah, and then I did end up changing solicitors.


								34:46.742 --> 34:47.923

								It did take a little while.


								34:47.943 --> 34:56.567

								And then those cases went on from... I mean, I first started out in 95, where I was


								34:58.240 --> 35:02.783

								you know, go to the local health authority and finding out what vaccinations and things you have.


								35:04.364 --> 35:12.308

								I think it was something like 96, 97 when I was with the new solicitor and it went on till I think it was 2007.


								35:12.849 --> 35:26.797

								And Richard Barr actually changed solicitors, that's three times, he moved into three separate solicitor's offices, like different companies, kept changing companies.


								35:28.883 --> 35:47.438

								And one of the things I think I should probably mention that happened in September 2008 was I got a letter from Isabella Thomas, who was one of the main campaigning parents, which is also Lancet 12 parents with two children in the study.


								35:49.940 --> 35:56.265

								And I got a letter from her asking if I would


								35:58.467 --> 36:00.468

								back Dr. Wakefield up.


								36:01.788 --> 36:09.390

								And I don't know if I should backtrack and talk about when I went to the hospital, because that was actually before, long before this.


								36:10.250 --> 36:12.791

								When you went to the hospital for Wakefield?


								36:13.911 --> 36:14.171

								Yeah.


								36:14.451 --> 36:15.031

								Yeah, OK.


								36:15.131 --> 36:20.153

								I mean, that definitely we should back up to that, because I kind of was wondering whether we skipped that or not.


								36:20.193 --> 36:20.433

								I was.


								36:20.973 --> 36:21.753

								But yes, please.


								36:21.833 --> 36:22.053

								So.


								36:23.194 --> 36:23.294

								So.


								36:25.892 --> 36:30.242

								So it was September the 29th 1996 that he went to the hospital.


								36:34.694 --> 36:41.856

								And I don't know why, but some papers that you read say it was September the 15th, 1996 on the internet.


								36:42.196 --> 36:48.939

								So, but I do know there was, one of that child was referred on September 1996 as well.


								36:49.219 --> 36:53.120

								So, I don't know why it's written down as two different things, but I know because I kept the diary.


								36:53.400 --> 36:54.720

								I know exactly when he went in.


								36:56.441 --> 37:02.703

								So, he went in on the Sunday night and he'd come out on the Friday and it was the most horrific week of my life.


								37:05.210 --> 37:08.159

								I was on my own with my son and I stayed in the room with him.


								37:12.202 --> 37:17.025

								Dr. Wakefield was there, John Walker-Smith here with us.


								37:17.745 --> 37:25.569

								And they did speak to us on the Sunday and they came and took notes about, you know, how we had been, about the diet and the diary and different things.


								37:27.310 --> 37:38.036

								I mean, what I should say is before that I had actually wrote Dr. Wakefield a letter, which I've got to say as well, Jackie Fletcher was the person that advised me to do that.


								37:38.796 --> 37:48.624

								because when the solicitor in Newcastle, where I'm from, was telling me I couldn't get legal aid, Sandy advised me to ring Jackie Fletcher and speak to her.


								37:49.424 --> 38:04.296

								So I spoke to Jackie and Jackie said, you need to get in touch with Dr Wakefield and he will be able to do tests that will say whether my son had suffered from the MMR vaccination or not.


								38:05.399 --> 38:10.925

								So for me, as a desperate parent, you know, didn't know why my son had gone the way he was.


								38:10.965 --> 38:17.411

								It was like bereavement when I lost him to, you know, lost all of his skills and everything.


								38:17.431 --> 38:22.556

								And I was kind of desperate, really, to find out what had happened to him.


								38:23.117 --> 38:24.738

								And so.


								38:24.919 --> 38:25.039

								And.


								38:29.665 --> 38:35.830

								So I spoke to Jackie and Jackie asked me to write a letter to Dr Wakefield explaining.


								38:36.631 --> 38:37.472

								So that's what I did.


								38:37.552 --> 38:42.456

								I wrote quite a long letter to him and we spoke on the phone.


								38:42.957 --> 38:51.604

								He rang my home up and we spoke on the phone at length and he asked me to go to the GP and ask for a referral to see him.


								38:54.066 --> 39:10.560

								Let me just clarify, if I remember right what you told me yesterday, your son has already been basically no GI problems at all up until this point now, except for one very brief week where you gave him the wrong cod oil or something like that, and you figured it out, right?


								39:11.882 --> 39:12.262

								No, go ahead.


								39:17.031 --> 39:20.394

								Yeah, what it was, was when I told you I had healed him with the diet.


								39:20.454 --> 39:22.676

								So he was kind of six by the time he was healed.


								39:24.098 --> 39:27.881

								At this point, he was nine and three quarters, nearly 10 years old.


								39:28.442 --> 39:33.827

								But just after I wrote to Dr. Wakefield in the April of 96.


								39:34.928 --> 39:35.088

								Yeah, 96.


								39:35.128 --> 39:40.974

								And then in the June, I had him on a cod liver oil supplement.


								39:42.534 --> 39:45.780

								It was a dietician in Fiara wanting us to put him on supplements.


								39:45.840 --> 39:53.453

								So I put him on the cod liver oil supplement and he reacted with diarrhea, but it was very short-lived, a couple of weeks maximum I think it was.


								39:55.487 --> 40:04.351

								In that time, I wrote to Dr. Wakefield again after that because he had actually said to us in April, give us a few months because I'm recruiting people to do the research.


								40:04.792 --> 40:13.776

								But if you write to us in a few months, we should almost be ready to start the research and for your son to come down to the hospital.


								40:14.456 --> 40:21.720

								But I wrote back to him in June with the concerns about the diarrhoea at the time and asked him if there was anything he thought I could do.


								40:22.380 --> 40:24.021

								And again, I spoke to him on the phone.


								40:24.915 --> 40:29.017

								And that was when he told us to go for the referral to the JP.


								40:29.057 --> 40:30.297

								He said they were almost ready.


								40:30.457 --> 40:32.899

								You know, they were recruiting people for the research.


								40:33.759 --> 40:37.160

								So that was in the June and then September the 29th we went.


								40:38.421 --> 40:43.703

								And like I said, it was a horrendous week.


								40:44.364 --> 40:51.087

								So on the second day they did the biopsies, they get what they call it.


								40:51.107 --> 40:54.208

								So when they looked at his bowel, there's a name for it.


								40:55.626 --> 40:58.188

								I guess they call it an endoscopy among other things.


								40:58.208 --> 41:00.009

								Okay.


								41:00.269 --> 41:02.591

								And I remember I was there with him.


								41:02.651 --> 41:04.012

								Dr. Wakefield was there.


								41:04.272 --> 41:08.695

								I don't think he was the one that performed it, but he was standing there.


								41:08.715 --> 41:11.517

								There was a few of them and it took about an hour.


								41:13.339 --> 41:18.182

								And then that day, later on that night,


								41:20.291 --> 41:22.233

								collapsed three times in the hospital.


								41:22.654 --> 41:30.582

								I had taken him for a walk along the corridors and he collapsed three times.


								41:30.662 --> 41:32.704

								He was very, very ill that week after this.


								41:36.128 --> 41:37.910

								And, you know, I was on my own in the corridor.


								41:37.930 --> 41:38.971

								It was really difficult.


								41:39.051 --> 41:39.592

								But anyway,


								41:41.584 --> 41:50.544

								weren't going back to their room and they were wanting to do more tests that week and they did try doing some more tests and for one of them three nurses held them down.


								41:51.460 --> 42:15.760

								because he wouldn't keep still, you know, he was non-verbal, he didn't know what was happening to him, and he didn't like, they were trying to give him an injection at the time, and anyway, they had to hold him down for that, and they did, I know they did vitamin B tests, and there were some tests where they were trying to give him a drink, but he wouldn't drink it because it was awful tasting,


								42:16.841 --> 42:19.925

								He couldn't swallow tablets because he can't swallow tablets.


								42:19.945 --> 42:24.370

								He doesn't know how to do that because his skills are quite low.


								42:24.390 --> 42:28.736

								I have a high school kid who still can't swallow tablets.


								42:28.776 --> 42:29.377

								Are you kidding me?


								42:33.218 --> 42:42.404

								So one of the things I did want to do was give him a lumbar puncture and then about midweek they wanted to do that, but he was like really ill and they changed their mind.


								42:42.484 --> 42:45.687

								Then they were going to do it the next day, but they changed their mind again.


								42:45.747 --> 42:53.873

								And I think it's because they realized he had, you know, I think he had reacted to that initial biopsies that had been taken.


								42:53.913 --> 42:55.214

								He was being sick all the time.


								42:55.234 --> 42:57.495

								And he was like,


								42:59.980 --> 43:01.422

								dreaming through the night things.


								43:02.583 --> 43:12.573

								So what happened was, on the Friday when they'd finished doing what they wanted to do with them, basically, I didn't drive, I had getting the lift down there and


								43:13.376 --> 43:21.105

								We were going to go home, I think it was on the Saturday, but on the Friday they paid for a taxi all the way from London to North Shields, which is about 400 miles.


								43:21.786 --> 43:27.152

								I remember it was £100, but they paid for it, and that was all them years ago.


								43:28.113 --> 43:31.757

								So they obviously had money somewhere to be able to pay for that, but that's what happened.


								43:32.549 --> 43:44.136

								and there was no after-treatment, no before-treatment, he just went in the hospital and on the second day was there, got this test done and all the other tests that were done.


								43:45.137 --> 43:51.181

								But Dr Wayfield did keep in touch with us for a while and we did speak on the phone sometimes.


								43:52.071 --> 44:01.717

								afterwards and he was telling us that there were no there was more children went after that and he was saying that they were he was finding that they all had the same condition.


								44:01.737 --> 44:12.963

								I can't remember how you pronounce it lymphoid something it's got a long name and it's in his book it's if you can find it written up what the kids had.


								44:14.232 --> 44:21.214

								But the condition got changed from that, lymphoid nodular or something, and it got changed to colitis.


								44:21.594 --> 44:23.894

								Lymphoid nodular hyperplasia.


								44:23.914 --> 44:25.435

								That's it.


								44:25.455 --> 44:26.995

								Yeah, yeah.


								44:27.175 --> 44:29.076

								That is what he said he had.


								44:29.516 --> 44:32.476

								But Colin had no bowel problems when he went there.


								44:32.596 --> 44:40.758

								Now he had, like I said, he had the short-lived ones in the June, and he went there on September the 29th, he had absolutely no bowel problems whatsoever.


								44:41.379 --> 44:42.039

								He was healed.


								44:44.431 --> 44:58.522

								But I went because I was a desperate player and I wanted to know what had happened to my child and the promise of doing some tests to find out if it was MMR because I didn't know what had caused this horrendous reaction and loss of my son.


								45:00.223 --> 45:02.685

								So he did keep in touch.


								45:02.885 --> 45:10.651

								And then what happened out of the blue, following February, 97, which was I think round about the time that the Lancet study came out,


								45:11.673 --> 45:17.697

								I got a letter from JP and it had said that I had wanted to put him on medication.


								45:17.717 --> 45:22.160

								I can't think what it's called.


								45:22.180 --> 45:29.786

								It begins with an S. I did later find out it was meant to be an adult medication, this medication.


								45:30.806 --> 45:38.492

								And I was very, very reluctant because- I'm sorry, what kind of medication did you say it was supposed to be?


								45:40.954 --> 45:46.256

								I read later that it was in a medication that adults only adults are meant to have adults.


								45:46.376 --> 45:46.576

								Okay.


								45:46.616 --> 45:46.816

								Yes.


								45:46.936 --> 45:47.176

								Great.


								45:47.196 --> 45:47.516

								Great.


								45:47.557 --> 45:47.697

								Sorry.


								45:47.757 --> 45:48.197

								I missed that.


								45:48.377 --> 45:51.318

								You know, we'll probably be looked up, but I don't know.


								45:51.498 --> 45:54.320

								I don't know that the accuracy of that.


								45:55.260 --> 46:01.063

								Um, and then, so I've got this letter and I went to see me JP and, um, I knew nothing about it.


								46:01.103 --> 46:02.143

								I haven't heard about it.


								46:03.544 --> 46:06.305

								So I've got in touch with, um, Dr. Wakefield.


								46:06.798 --> 46:09.059

								And I think I spoke to John Walker Smith as well.


								46:09.079 --> 46:15.500

								And they were trying to convince us that this would really, really helpful for Colin.


								46:15.980 --> 46:19.381

								But they said it's not only for the bowel problems, it's for behaviour problems.


								46:19.521 --> 46:21.341

								And some children have started talking.


								46:22.422 --> 46:30.504

								And what they did was they got two of the mothers, Rosemary Kethwick and Isabella Thomas, who were the two main campaigning parents.


								46:30.604 --> 46:32.844

								But they're both Lancet 12 parents as well.


								46:32.864 --> 46:36.305

								But both of those parents are very close to Dr Wakefield.


								46:36.750 --> 46:41.131

								and they've got, you know, that part of the charities that they've set up together.


								46:42.192 --> 46:53.795

								And those two parents spoke to us on the phone and they convinced us that it was worth it because, and you can imagine me as a parent, my son had lost all of his speech and didn't think that something was going to help him speak again.


								46:53.815 --> 46:59.777

								And I kind of hummed him hard because I didn't really want him on the medication, but I thought, well, I've got to try it.


								47:01.058 --> 47:05.039

								So I put him on the medication and it made him ill.


								47:07.100 --> 47:09.181

								He got really bad diarrhea back.


								47:09.361 --> 47:10.501

								He got stomach pains.


								47:10.861 --> 47:12.121

								He got behavior problems.


								47:14.762 --> 47:15.982

								And I had to take him off it.


								47:16.002 --> 47:18.803

								He was on it a few weeks and I just took him back off it again.


								47:19.443 --> 47:23.584

								Never been on medication since.


								47:23.824 --> 47:24.644

								So they did that.


								47:25.785 --> 47:33.066

								I do know they were also wanting to do, because I got some letters about it, they were also wanting to do some other treatment.


								47:33.886 --> 47:35.947

								I can't think what it's called.


								47:36.647 --> 47:39.208

								somebody might know transfer factor or something.


								47:39.648 --> 47:39.908

								Okay.


								47:41.529 --> 47:41.929

								I don't know.


								47:41.969 --> 47:42.790

								I would have to look it up.


								47:43.250 --> 47:48.132

								He's been through a couple different things of trialing a couple different things, but I'm not sure.


								47:50.253 --> 48:01.078

								I'm just really shocked because that part also feels as though they used other study participants to coerce you into participating in another study, which is...


								48:02.096 --> 48:08.701

								Pretty remarkable, again, given the fact that as a doctor, he knows that your son didn't fit all the criteria.


								48:08.741 --> 48:19.590

								Yes, he had a lot of the cognitive impairments, but he didn't have the key sort of, the key part of the story was already gone and fixed.


								48:19.670 --> 48:25.114

								And so it's very remarkable that almost in a wanton need to ignore it.


								48:28.176 --> 48:30.178

								I find it really shocking.


								48:32.830 --> 48:40.873

								Yeah, well, I think what happened after that, obviously we're going through all the court cases and everything.


								48:40.893 --> 48:45.014

								And Dr Wakefield actually was at my legal aid hearing.


								48:45.134 --> 48:56.598

								I didn't know he was going to be there, but he came to Newcastle from London and he was one of the people on sitting around the table at the legal aid hearing, which I thought was quite strange.


								49:00.169 --> 49:05.656

								so and I just had to sit you know there for half an hour and talk about like what had happened.


								49:06.818 --> 49:15.389

								So one of the things that happened later on again, this parent Isabella Thomas, she wanted me to sign a letter of support to Dr Wakefield


								49:16.118 --> 49:19.281

								And it was for the GMC hearing that he was going through.


								49:19.301 --> 49:31.113

								And I said to her that I did, because I believed in Dr. Wakefield then, I totally trusted him.


								49:31.353 --> 49:34.616

								After all, he was the first doctor that I thought had sat and listened to us.


								49:34.636 --> 49:38.019

								I don't think it was genuine, but at the time I thought it was.


								49:39.160 --> 49:44.905

								And I said to her, I'm sorry, but I'm an honest person and I can't support him with this.


								49:45.285 --> 49:53.692

								I do wish him all the best, but I can't because at the hospital, he reacted really badly.


								49:53.712 --> 49:55.093

								He collapsed three times.


								49:56.354 --> 50:02.539

								And I said that I felt like the medication that he was given was being done for research purposes and not for my son's benefit.


								50:04.386 --> 50:06.948

								And I said, so I just could, I can't sign it.


								50:07.468 --> 50:09.669

								So I just kind of forgot about it.


								50:09.769 --> 50:14.753

								And to be honest, I didn't really keep up that much with the news about them and stuff.


								50:14.773 --> 50:20.197

								But I wasn't, you know, I certainly wasn't following it at the time.


								50:21.377 --> 50:23.519

								And then I did start following it from 2010.


								50:23.579 --> 50:23.859

								But, um,


								50:27.805 --> 50:46.648

								what happened was that I started looking on the internet around about 2010 because I heard like I realized he was going through this JMC case and I started looking things up and I was looking up about the JMC case, I was looking up about the Lancet 12 study, I was looking up about Dr Wakefield and


								50:48.223 --> 50:50.224

								Brian Dia, who later brought him down.


								50:52.165 --> 50:53.145

								Lots of different things.


								50:53.465 --> 50:57.187

								And I came across the letter on the internet and it was signed.


								50:57.347 --> 51:03.510

								Well, it was not signed, but it had the names underneath the letter of all the parents that had apparently signed.


								51:03.750 --> 51:08.852

								My name was on the letter and I never gave permission for them to do that.


								51:09.768 --> 51:22.341

								So as if I was one of the parents, and I think there was about five or six of the Lancet 12 parents on there, but two of them were the same parents.


								51:22.601 --> 51:26.686

								It was Isabella Thomas and her husband, but they had two children in the study.


								51:27.366 --> 51:28.568

								One was Rosemary Keswick,


								51:29.832 --> 51:36.055

								There was mine, and I think it was a guy called Sleet, I think.


								51:36.435 --> 51:39.317

								They have something written down.


								51:42.170 --> 51:43.571

								It's still remarkable.


								51:43.672 --> 51:49.756

								I mean, if you're saying, it's just remarkable.


								51:50.837 --> 52:01.605

								It really does seem like they were just looking for example children and Andrew Wakefield's job was to craft a narrative about them too.


								52:02.226 --> 52:06.449

								And he may have already had been given the narrative that he was supposed to find kids that fit.


								52:08.170 --> 52:09.131

								It's pretty remarkable.


								52:10.393 --> 52:11.513

								Yeah, I think so now.


								52:11.593 --> 52:13.134

								At the time, I was so naive.


								52:13.834 --> 52:16.255

								I didn't believe there was any corrupt people in the world.


								52:16.615 --> 52:23.637

								I just, you know, I didn't realize that mainstream media is corrupt.


								52:23.677 --> 52:26.318

								He's richer now than he's ever been in his life.


								52:26.358 --> 52:29.299

								He has a wonderful ranch in Austin, Texas.


								52:29.359 --> 52:31.760

								The guy's doing just fine, I can tell you that.


								52:32.340 --> 52:38.862

								And he regrets not being able to retire and live the rest of his life on his boat in the Caribbean because he says his wife won't let him.


								52:40.242 --> 52:40.482

								Yeah.


								52:41.303 --> 52:46.289

								I mean, one of the things as well, which I don't think I mentioned to you, was his wife, Camilla.


								52:46.410 --> 52:47.511

								Is it Camilla?


								52:48.372 --> 52:50.635

								I don't know, the one on the cover of the book, I guess.


								52:51.776 --> 52:54.419

								Yeah, his wife, who he's not with now, but at the time.


								52:56.280 --> 53:04.483

								because I had told them that I had kept paperwork, including the letters I had wrote to Dr Wakefield and various things.


								53:04.723 --> 53:10.805

								And she actually emailed me personally and asked me for this information.


								53:10.825 --> 53:14.767

								And that was round about 2005, I think.


								53:15.207 --> 53:18.208

								I think it was when he was going through one of his court cases because he's


								53:19.308 --> 53:23.794

								He's tried to sue a few people, and he never sued any of them.


								53:23.854 --> 53:27.137

								Brian Deer mainly, who I don't trust neither.


								53:27.157 --> 53:34.586

								He is the journalist that brought Wakefield down in later years, in the 2000s.


								53:34.987 --> 53:38.471

								And he kind of brought him down, you know.


								53:39.111 --> 53:41.573

								You pull the study apart and different things.


								53:43.075 --> 53:50.621

								But if it's anything like what they're doing, like what I think they've done to us in America, then that guy is on Andrew's team.


								53:50.961 --> 54:02.451

								That's why it works, you know, because otherwise he would go for the throat and the story would get worse and worse and he would have followed up with you and it would have been a real thing, but instead it just kind of stops where they need it to stop.


								54:03.496 --> 54:07.679

								Well, one of the things I kind of realized as the years went on, I started looking stuff up.


								54:07.779 --> 54:12.102

								I came across two books as well, which was written by the parents.


								54:12.983 --> 54:15.125

								I'd never been approached about these books.


								54:16.426 --> 54:18.467

								Some of the Lancet 12 parents were in them.


								54:18.627 --> 54:19.408

								There's two of them.


								54:19.448 --> 54:20.749

								I can't remember the titles.


								54:21.369 --> 54:28.094

								They were being sold through Cry Shame, the website, that some of these people run.


								54:30.401 --> 54:33.282

								I think it's Isabella that runs that one as well.


								54:33.302 --> 54:39.224

								And it was the parents and some other people that had children that had gone autistic.


								54:39.604 --> 54:44.806

								But wouldn't you think if I was a Lancet 12 parent that they would have got in touch with me?


								54:45.606 --> 54:47.067

								But I knew nothing about them.


								54:48.147 --> 54:49.668

								But I would have told the truth, you see.


								54:49.908 --> 54:59.432

								And they knew that, because I had been saying this, even to the solicitors, I was saying, I cannot go to these court cases in London, and I need to speak.


								54:59.472 --> 55:03.974

								Because if I do, I will be speaking the truth, and I'll be saying what happened at the hospital.


								55:05.235 --> 55:07.216

								So I think they deliberately left me out of it.


								55:10.497 --> 55:15.559

								I mean, you know, if their story was real, then in actuality, can we use your son's name?


								55:15.579 --> 55:16.680

								His name's Colin, right?


								55:20.997 --> 55:22.899

								Colin should have been the control group, right?


								55:22.959 --> 55:25.181

								Because he didn't have the bowel part.


								55:25.601 --> 55:34.130

								So it would have been a beautiful experiment had there been a signal in some of these kids and not in your son, but some of the symptoms were shared.


								55:34.210 --> 55:34.590

								That's how


								55:35.899 --> 55:40.563

								That's how an irreducible and irreducibly complex biological system works.


								55:40.623 --> 55:54.615

								It's not always going to be this cut and dried little easy peasy pattern where we can just separate the measles from the mumps and from the rubella and then all the kids will be fine, which is kind of what that story ended up being for a really long time in the media, right?


								55:54.655 --> 56:01.320

								That he was just advocating for separate vaccines and he thought that the putting the vaccines together, what was causing it and


								56:02.501 --> 56:08.003

								It's just remarkable that your son's history is so much more complicated than that, and they obviously know that.


								56:08.763 --> 56:19.287

								And then, yeah, it's... The other thing is, which I think I mentioned to you yesterday, Colin is in that book that you have there, it's Child No.


								56:19.307 --> 56:26.030

								4, but I can't remember if it's a paragraph or if it's a chapter on its own, but he's called the re-challenge case.


								56:26.490 --> 56:31.072

								So he talks about Colin as the re-challenge case and what he means by that.


								56:31.852 --> 56:52.715

								by that is because Colin got the measles vaccination at 15 months and then they sent Cord out to get these other six vaccinations on the same day but all throughout the court cases and everything the DPT was never mentioned and I never thought about it because to be honest I completely forgot, well I didn't


								56:53.490 --> 56:57.312

								even though he got six until years and years later when I got the paperwork.


								56:58.512 --> 57:01.133

								And it was always just said it was MMR, it was MMR.


								57:02.954 --> 57:09.457

								So he was the re-challenge case for MMR, but really he was the re-challenge case for day painting as well.


								57:10.778 --> 57:17.921

								So like there's quite a... I think if Marlowe wrote Colin in that book than what there is any other child, if I remember rightly,


								57:19.622 --> 57:32.399

								But the other thing as well, which I find really strange, is child number eight, who is the only girl in the study, actually came from the same GP surgery as myself.


								57:33.183 --> 57:39.268

								So I assume she lived where I live in North Shields, if not in the surrounding town.


								57:39.769 --> 57:42.411

								And I don't have a clue who this family is.


								57:43.292 --> 57:48.196

								And I didn't have a clue that she was part of the Lancet 12 until I read the book.


								57:48.436 --> 57:53.180

								And I've actually seen some information on the internet.


								57:53.660 --> 57:55.202

								And that was around about 2010 that I found out.


								57:59.305 --> 58:08.590

								So I have asked some of the people involved in this controversy if they could let us know and just it seems like nobody wants to let me know who this family is.


								58:10.251 --> 58:13.233

								Didn't one person even tell you that there was no girl in the trial?


								58:14.301 --> 58:15.761

								Yeah, that was Isabella Thomas.


								58:16.442 --> 58:27.625

								I rang her up and I spoke to her and I said, I want to find this family, this girl, because they live in my town or they live near my town or they did.


								58:28.105 --> 58:31.126

								And I said... Whitley Bay, it says in the book.


								58:32.747 --> 58:35.107

								Yes, that's right.


								58:35.668 --> 58:38.568

								She lived in Whitley Bay and I lived in North Shields.


								58:38.628 --> 58:39.829

								It's basically the next town.


								58:39.989 --> 58:40.209

								Okay.


								58:41.678 --> 58:56.211

								So Isabella, like I said, she said that what she said was there was no girl in the study poll and I said there was because I've read the book and I've also seen it on the internet.


								58:56.691 --> 59:08.982

								Maybe she thought that I'd never read the book because, you know, I hadn't really been taking that much interest until this point and she said, oh yes, you're thinking about the study in America


								59:09.978 --> 59:11.019

								And I said, no, I'm not.


								59:11.359 --> 59:13.521

								I'm talking about the study in England.


								59:14.122 --> 59:17.986

								And I said to her, I'm going to find out who this family is.


								59:18.726 --> 59:19.707

								Still haven't found out.


								59:21.109 --> 59:27.615

								There's been a few people within that controversy that I've asked, and nobody seems to want to tell us, or they're saying they don't know who it is.


								59:29.977 --> 59:33.540

								Brian Deer, the journalist, I did meet him in 2014.


								59:36.460 --> 59:40.868

								By this time I was very active in looking stuff up from 2010, mainly 2012, 13, 14 I was very active.


								59:46.116 --> 59:48.678

								But to be honest, I got very, very scared.


								59:49.338 --> 59:54.302

								I'm not going to go into that on this programme, but I'm very scared.


								59:55.843 --> 01:00:01.766

								Because when I got active, I got a lot of problems, including with my internet.


								01:00:02.367 --> 01:00:12.574

								So anyway, I did get in touch with Brian Deer and I wrote to him and had quite a few emails backwards and forwards.


								01:00:12.994 --> 01:00:14.695

								And he came up to meet me, came from


								01:00:15.529 --> 01:00:17.570

								wherever he lives down South London Way.


								01:00:17.590 --> 01:00:23.434

								And he met me in a hotel in Newcastle, which is the main city near me.


								01:00:24.255 --> 01:00:27.237

								And I spent about four hours, I would say, with him.


								01:00:27.257 --> 01:00:30.899

								And I tried to trust him.


								01:00:31.419 --> 01:00:37.003

								I gave him, after this, I gave him at least 100 documents and paperwork.


								01:00:39.264 --> 01:00:41.666

								I wanted to trust him because I thought he might be able to help us.


								01:00:43.631 --> 01:00:45.773

								But he didn't.


								01:00:47.254 --> 01:00:55.701

								The reason I got in touch with him was because I was keeping in touch with Paul Shatty.


								01:00:57.843 --> 01:01:04.009

								And when Paul came out to see me one day, I said to him, I need to know who this family is.


								01:01:05.197 --> 01:01:09.938

								And by this time, I was starting to realize that there was something not right.


								01:01:10.638 --> 01:01:22.081

								Just things that had happened, things that were being said, delay tactics about people within the controversy saying they were going to meet us, and it was delay tactics after delay tactics, and the meetings never happened.


								01:01:22.621 --> 01:01:25.742

								And I started realizing that there were things were just not adding up.


								01:01:26.742 --> 01:01:34.064

								So I said to Paul, if it's the last thing I do on this Earth, I will find this family.


								01:01:35.344 --> 01:01:41.969

								And surprisingly he said the name Brian Deer.


								01:01:44.390 --> 01:01:50.374

								And I was quite shocked because I thought these guys are on opposite sides of the controversy, like Paul Shattuck is.


								01:01:51.477 --> 01:01:58.346

								You might not hear him mentioned very often, but he was doing research with Dr. Wakefield before any of this ever happened.


								01:01:59.387 --> 01:02:05.314

								And I know that he is friends with him and they have been on seminars and things together.


								01:02:05.654 --> 01:02:08.318

								And so this guy recommended that you contact Brian Deer.


								01:02:09.076 --> 01:02:10.117

								Well, he just said it.


								01:02:10.157 --> 01:02:11.099

								That's the way he said it.


								01:02:11.179 --> 01:02:14.723

								When I said, if it's the last thing on earth that I'll do, I'll find this family.


								01:02:14.803 --> 01:02:16.225

								And he just said, Orang India.


								01:02:16.325 --> 01:02:17.567

								And I was quite taken aback.


								01:02:18.088 --> 01:02:19.870

								And it took us weeks to think about it.


								01:02:20.411 --> 01:02:21.953

								And I thought, well, what do I do?


								01:02:24.216 --> 01:02:25.958

								Because I could actually see from what


								01:02:26.876 --> 01:02:41.984

								I read everything meticulously on the internet about what Brian Deer was saying about Wakefield, what Wakefield was saying about Brian Deer, about the court cases that Wakefield was going through when he was suing Brian Deer and then he was backing off from the court cases.


								01:02:42.585 --> 01:02:45.286

								And I was thinking this just does not add up at all.


								01:02:45.306 --> 01:02:48.588

								There's something very phony about the whole thing.


								01:02:49.972 --> 01:02:58.034

								And the fact that I was being, they weren't coming forward to have meetings with me and to speak with me.


								01:02:59.714 --> 01:03:03.035

								So, but in the end, I thought, well, I'll just, I'll get in touch with them.


								01:03:03.855 --> 01:03:10.936

								So I did ask him if he knew who the family was and he came up with an address and what he be.


								01:03:11.997 --> 01:03:18.818

								And he said, this is where they lived when, you know, when they took out the court case


								01:03:19.878 --> 01:03:23.221

								when they originally went through the courts.


								01:03:25.482 --> 01:03:25.823

								Anyway.


								01:03:27.173 --> 01:03:28.574

								But that address was dead, right?


								01:03:28.594 --> 01:03:29.695

								That address was nothing.


								01:03:29.775 --> 01:03:32.896

								So as far as you know, you couldn't find anything there.


								01:03:33.997 --> 01:03:35.138

								No, I couldn't find anything.


								01:03:38.019 --> 01:03:39.020

								So that was that.


								01:03:39.240 --> 01:03:42.282

								And I don't trust Brian Deer.


								01:03:42.522 --> 01:03:43.222

								I really don't.


								01:03:44.183 --> 01:03:45.484

								Things are not adding up at all.


								01:03:45.504 --> 01:03:53.548

								And I started getting very active in trying to expose things and trying to tell my side of the story.


								01:03:54.309 --> 01:03:55.710

								But I was very, very scared.


								01:03:56.921 --> 01:04:02.824

								Um, well, I want, I want everybody to know, first of all, Paula has detailed journals of all of this.


								01:04:02.884 --> 01:04:05.746

								She kept a lot of meticulous records that she still has.


								01:04:05.806 --> 01:04:12.189

								And I think she's probably sitting on something that could be very, you know, useful for her family or whatever.


								01:04:12.409 --> 01:04:16.171

								I really want to encourage everyone to understand this is a story ongoing.


								01:04:16.211 --> 01:04:19.352

								Can we, or can I ask how old is your son now?


								01:04:19.532 --> 01:04:20.133

								How is he?


								01:04:20.233 --> 01:04:21.754

								How are you guys as a family?


								01:04:21.774 --> 01:04:21.814

								Um,


								01:04:23.784 --> 01:04:25.505

								He's 38 now.


								01:04:25.865 --> 01:04:25.505

								38?


								01:04:26.685 --> 01:04:27.506

								My gosh.


								01:04:28.366 --> 01:04:29.886

								He was nearly 10 at the time.


								01:04:30.987 --> 01:04:34.528

								So this has gone on, Ole Mieres is still going on.


								01:04:34.568 --> 01:04:38.089

								So this controversy has been going on since, well, 96 really.


								01:04:40.090 --> 01:04:43.092

								And and nothing's changed in that time, really.


								01:04:43.492 --> 01:04:45.453

								And they haven't found any answers.


								01:04:45.913 --> 01:04:48.775

								I haven't apparently found the answer to autism.


								01:04:48.795 --> 01:04:53.598

								We all know it's well, one of the things is vaccinations.


								01:04:53.758 --> 01:04:57.840

								I believe my son went autistic for a number of reasons.


								01:04:58.861 --> 01:05:01.782

								I think the overuse of antibiotics destroyed his foot.


								01:05:02.643 --> 01:05:06.865

								And so that he didn't have the friendly good bacteria that we all need.


								01:05:07.469 --> 01:05:11.110

								which made him a disadvantage to reacting to vaccines.


								01:05:11.130 --> 01:05:13.271

								But I believe he reacted to every vaccine now.


								01:05:15.592 --> 01:05:20.053

								And I know there's a thing called J-alpha protein defects that some children have.


								01:05:21.334 --> 01:05:34.678

								And when they get certain vaccines like the DPT and the measles vaccine, it totally destroys all the vitamin A so that then they're more prone to having


								01:05:35.561 --> 01:05:37.503

								and autistic type problems.


								01:05:37.963 --> 01:05:39.344

								So I don't know if he has that.


								01:05:40.005 --> 01:05:43.288

								And I think, you know, he did have a bad birth as well.


								01:05:43.308 --> 01:05:47.071

								They couldn't get the doctor out of bed when I was due to have a cesarean.


								01:05:47.412 --> 01:05:49.133

								And he was born double breech normally.


								01:05:49.153 --> 01:05:52.496

								And that could have had its disadvantages.


								01:05:52.676 --> 01:05:54.618

								But he was developing to a degree.


								01:05:54.658 --> 01:05:56.359

								He was a very, very happy child.


								01:05:58.241 --> 01:06:00.383

								And he was destroyed.


								01:06:01.587 --> 01:06:06.608

								Yeah, I can't express my sadness with the story.


								01:06:06.688 --> 01:06:08.409

								I mean, I really am very sad about it.


								01:06:08.449 --> 01:06:10.529

								I'm sad about every one of these stories that I hear.


								01:06:10.609 --> 01:06:18.091

								But more importantly, I'm very sad about how, as you said, they have made no progress.


								01:06:18.131 --> 01:06:23.992

								That's the part that's most remarkable to me, having figured something was wrong only because of the pandemic.


								01:06:24.032 --> 01:06:28.373

								Before that, I was, you know, you need to catch my kid up on vaccines?


								01:06:28.413 --> 01:06:29.674

								Go ahead, use both arms.


								01:06:30.894 --> 01:06:31.835

								I was a moron.


								01:06:31.915 --> 01:06:44.003

								Even though I was an academic biologist studying the brain and thinking I was all bright and smart, I didn't understand anything about general biology of my children the way I should have.


								01:06:44.043 --> 01:06:47.365

								I didn't think about it the way I should have and didn't question anything.


								01:06:47.946 --> 01:06:49.347

								And even after I started to


								01:06:50.765 --> 01:06:59.317

								To understand something was wrong, it still took me many years to get where you and your son have been for a long time, where you know that this is a pretty complicated mess.


								01:07:00.558 --> 01:07:04.243

								We are in a wonderful symbiosis with a microbiome.


								01:07:04.283 --> 01:07:07.307

								We carry a compost heap around in our guts.


								01:07:08.749 --> 01:07:17.717

								that balance is thrown off, then I'm sure we are hyper-vulnerable to an intramuscular injection of metals and toxins and proteins.


								01:07:19.438 --> 01:07:24.002

								I just, I can't thank you enough, number one, for sharing your story.


								01:07:24.262 --> 01:07:33.670

								Number two, for, I hope we can remain in touch because I think there's going to be a million people who would like more details as to what you did or how you did it and your experience with the diet.


								01:07:34.951 --> 01:07:42.876

								I'm I'm there's gonna be lots of questions about who contacted you and how Many other people knew this that could have spread it around.


								01:07:42.956 --> 01:08:02.386

								I mean, it's a you never had any contact with Polly Tommy this person that Wakefield worked with for a while you did Actually did what well I didn't I didn't I wrote to why you know when the housing was being built years ago with it should build a big build a big housing complex or she was gonna build a big big housing complex and


								01:08:03.032 --> 01:08:10.897

								And I was interested in whether they were going to build some in my area because they were meant to be building it in different parts of the country.


								01:08:11.297 --> 01:08:15.259

								So I wrote to her and asking her that question and she didn't reply.


								01:08:15.279 --> 01:08:21.763

								So I wrote to her again and she got somebody else to, I can't remember the name of the guy, but somebody else wrote back.


								01:08:22.163 --> 01:08:24.765

								I can't remember what they even said about it now.


								01:08:25.245 --> 01:08:31.709

								I think it was something like at the moment there was no plans in my area, but she didn't actually directly contact us herself.


								01:08:33.349 --> 01:08:33.469

								Okay.


								01:08:33.569 --> 01:08:36.710

								Can I just say one more thing about how my son was now?


								01:08:37.210 --> 01:08:38.151

								Sure, please.


								01:08:38.971 --> 01:08:41.111

								I don't think everybody would realize it.


								01:08:41.551 --> 01:08:51.434

								If you look at my son now, and you've seen him in the room, and he'd just be walking backwards and forwards, but I do a program with him, and I have workers, and he did nothing for years.


								01:08:51.474 --> 01:08:53.775

								He literally just rocked all the time.


								01:08:53.855 --> 01:08:58.736

								When he went to school, he learned nothing because he couldn't bear the noise, and he used to just crouch in the corner.


								01:08:59.774 --> 01:09:24.330

								and so he did nothing when he was at school and then in 2009 I went to America to do a program and anyway I came back and it took us a whole year to get him to do anything on the table but on the on the floor I would get crayons and it's all hand over hand he can't do anything on his own and eventually got him to do jigsaws hand over hand arts and crafts colouring in


								01:09:26.991 --> 01:09:27.512

								games.


								01:09:27.592 --> 01:09:29.833

								Now he plays games and he can throw a dice.


								01:09:29.853 --> 01:09:30.694

								He couldn't even do that.


								01:09:30.714 --> 01:09:31.915

								He had no pincer grip.


								01:09:32.015 --> 01:09:38.499

								It took us four months to get him to hold his hand out and point his finger every day.


								01:09:39.740 --> 01:09:48.366

								So he does this programme now in his own quiet little room and the programme's fantastic for him because at low he's very, very disabled.


								01:09:49.526 --> 01:09:53.268

								He can walk for miles, but he's disabled in the fact that he can't do a lot.


								01:09:53.508 --> 01:09:55.769

								But he's very, very intelligent.


								01:09:56.969 --> 01:10:02.731

								But he's stuck in his own body because he gets the answers right to nearly every question that I ask him.


								01:10:03.172 --> 01:10:03.992

								I can read a book.


								01:10:05.302 --> 01:10:21.668

								ask him a question, put like say six different answers out, and what you have to do is put your hand underneath his, like as if his brain can't do it himself, and then he'll point to the right answer every time, and he knows everything about history, geography, everything.


								01:10:22.729 --> 01:10:31.492

								But to look at him, he just goes around making these noises, he's in pants, he's doubly incontinent, he can't make a cup of tea, he can't dress himself,


								01:10:33.561 --> 01:10:39.146

								So anybody that walked in would just think he's got no brain, he's very intelligent.


								01:10:39.667 --> 01:10:53.761

								So a lot of these kids out there that have been damaged by the vaccines or whatever that it is that is causing this problem, they're stuck inside of their own body, they're there, they're taking stuff in and I believe


								01:10:54.446 --> 01:11:04.657

								I've taught him so many things over the years and so some other people have taught other people to teach him and I believe he is taking every single detail in that we're teaching him.


								01:11:06.339 --> 01:11:11.625

								It's probably the most important part of this interview and I'm so happy you made sure that it got in there.


								01:11:13.246 --> 01:11:18.392

								As a parent of three kids, I don't have any words for you sharing your story with me.


								01:11:18.472 --> 01:11:19.533

								I just can say thank you.


								01:11:21.155 --> 01:11:30.946

								And if you ever want to come back again and talk about the diet, or talk about this again, or if I find something, I mean, whatever I can do to repay this, you have been


								01:11:33.450 --> 01:11:39.752

								This has been, I just am shocked that they, I've been saying that they haven't made any progress in five years.


								01:11:39.772 --> 01:11:42.153

								They haven't made any progress in 34 years.


								01:11:44.634 --> 01:11:46.795

								It's a crisis we're under right now.


								01:11:46.875 --> 01:11:48.596

								These people are just despicable.


								01:11:50.984 --> 01:12:10.087

								Yeah I mean the one thing I've got no support I'm actually I'm totally on my own with this I've been trying to expose things and you know just get the story out so people can see different sides of it and let people investigate it whatever but this needs investigating and I'm scared I'm scareder than ever but you know what


								01:12:11.540 --> 01:12:23.551

								it needs to get out there because there was other children after Colin, there was hundreds of children that he investigated, their bowels, in England and then in America.


								01:12:23.571 --> 01:12:25.934

								It wasn't just Colin,


								01:12:26.893 --> 01:12:52.167

								And I actually think it's all been but I don't know that obviously I'm kind of guessing here But I think it's been for research purposes or whatever reason and I don't even know about anything to do with MMO I really don't know but I think they've wanted to get in the guts of these children for research Yeah, I I really I don't know how to say how pertinent is what you're saying.


								01:12:52.227 --> 01:12:53.628

								I've been teaching for the last


								01:12:54.830 --> 01:13:06.795

								five years but only very recently have I been enlightened as to how powerful this interaction with our microbiome is and how central it is to our existence.


								01:13:08.636 --> 01:13:12.518

								It's been a history lesson for me because there's lots of people who know this.


								01:13:12.598 --> 01:13:14.999

								I think part of the illusion of the pandemic is


								01:13:15.599 --> 01:13:20.322

								ignoring that bacteria have their own viruses and some of them are good and some of them are bad.


								01:13:20.882 --> 01:13:36.470

								If you spent the last 20 years thinking about your son's gut, then I'm sure you know this and it's a, it is a remarkable omission if they start telling us that all the viruses are just replicating in our, in our lungs and they need to squirt stuff in our arm to fix us for them.


								01:13:38.710 --> 01:13:42.435

								Is there anything else I can, I can, you want to say or I can do here?


								01:13:42.455 --> 01:13:46.099

								I don't want to like say a bunch of details and stuff like that.


								01:13:46.139 --> 01:13:48.883

								People can contact me and then I can put them in contact with you.


								01:13:49.023 --> 01:13:53.468

								For now, I mean it's quite overwhelming for me, you know, having to do this.


								01:13:53.528 --> 01:13:54.370

								It's quite emotional.


								01:13:54.990 --> 01:13:57.472

								To be honest, it is so complex.


								01:13:57.773 --> 01:14:00.075

								It's such a long, long story.


								01:14:00.135 --> 01:14:01.976

								There's so much more detail to this.


								01:14:01.996 --> 01:14:02.937

								That isn't just it.


								01:14:04.779 --> 01:14:06.360

								And I've been stopped from speaking up.


								01:14:06.420 --> 01:14:07.041

								I know I have.


								01:14:08.402 --> 01:14:11.305

								And it's just the complexities of it.


								01:14:12.106 --> 01:14:12.926

								It's just too much.


								01:14:13.367 --> 01:14:14.227

								There's too much to say.


								01:14:14.247 --> 01:14:16.870

								I've tried to give you the basics of it, really.


								01:14:18.678 --> 01:14:20.340

								We did a very good job.


								01:14:20.380 --> 01:14:21.962

								Yesterday was also really good.


								01:14:22.182 --> 01:14:26.847

								I got a lot of notes yesterday and I think between today and yesterday I have a really good idea of


								01:14:29.372 --> 01:14:32.773

								your experience relative to the funny story in this book.


								01:14:32.934 --> 01:14:33.214

								I don't know.


								01:14:33.334 --> 01:14:34.494

								I don't really know what to say.


								01:14:34.514 --> 01:14:36.855

								I think it's a good place to end.


								01:14:37.876 --> 01:14:39.596

								I would like to say good evening to you.


								01:14:40.377 --> 01:14:42.437

								Thank you so much for sharing this hour with me.


								01:14:43.118 --> 01:14:50.501

								And if there are people that are trying to get in touch with you, I will put them in touch via the email that I have on an individual basis.


								01:14:50.561 --> 01:14:51.061

								I guess I won't


								01:14:51.482 --> 01:14:53.704

								I'll try not to pass on any crazy people to you.


								01:14:55.225 --> 01:15:05.094

								And if I get some, I mean, I do have a few people that I think are okay and are still patriots in America trying to figure this out too.


								01:15:05.154 --> 01:15:11.279

								So it may be, yeah, it will be that we need to talk again, but I can't thank you enough.


								01:15:12.663 --> 01:15:14.284

								for spending this time with me.


								01:15:14.325 --> 01:15:15.185

								Thank you, thank you, thank you.


								01:15:15.505 --> 01:15:18.668

								Thank you for listening because I'll be honest, I don't trust many people.


								01:15:18.688 --> 01:15:26.814

								After what I've been through all these years and trusted everybody at one point, I trust very, very few people and I trust you.


								01:15:27.735 --> 01:15:28.756

								Well, thank you very much.


								01:15:28.816 --> 01:15:32.599

								I don't know what to say other than I'm very, very happy we got this done.


								01:15:33.419 --> 01:15:34.480

								And take care of yourself.


								01:15:34.520 --> 01:15:36.862

								Please stay in touch and I will as well.


								01:15:36.922 --> 01:15:39.965

								I have a lot of emails to catch up on and a lot of things to read over.


								01:15:40.025 --> 01:15:41.586

								So, thank you, thank you, thank you.


								01:15:42.791 --> 01:15:43.371

								Thank you.


								01:15:43.691 --> 01:15:44.011

								Bye-bye.


								01:15:44.551 --> 01:15:45.411

								Bye.


								01:15:46.752 --> 01:15:52.233

								Thank you guys for joining me on this very special occasion.


								01:15:52.973 --> 01:15:54.993

								I'm just so happy that I got to meet her.


								01:15:55.033 --> 01:15:56.193

								I'm so happy she reached out.


								01:15:57.914 --> 01:15:59.574

								What a moving interview.


								01:15:59.594 --> 01:16:07.635

								I think there's only one conclusion to come to, that Wakefield was put in place and scoured the earth for a story that he could sell.


								01:16:07.695 --> 01:16:09.196

								Maybe a couple stories he could sell.


								01:16:09.236 --> 01:16:10.996

								Maybe there were a couple iterations of it.


								01:16:11.833 --> 01:16:19.555

								And Paula Aitken and her son got caught up in this mess in a very, very bad way, I think.


								01:16:19.835 --> 01:16:35.639

								And it's just a small little piece of the puzzle, I think, in order to understand what's going on and understand why this guy Wakefield has been in front of Congress and has been behind Children's Health Defense and ICANN for so many years.


								01:16:35.699 --> 01:16:37.119

								Thank you very much for joining me.


								01:16:37.339 --> 01:16:40.340

								And I hope to see you again tomorrow, real soon, at least, real soon.