WEBVTT 00:07.385 --> 00:07.685 Testing 1, 2. 00:08.386 --> 00:08.686 Test 1, 2. 00:09.066 --> 00:13.968 This is Gigaohm Biological, a high-resistance, low-noise information brief brought to you by a biologist. 00:14.008 --> 00:16.610 You can share this stream at stream.gigaohm.bio. 00:17.150 --> 00:22.352 If you want to be notified of the stream, please send an email to that address on the screen. 00:22.973 --> 00:24.873 I'm going to start the stream quite quick today. 00:24.993 --> 00:26.234 No big introduction. 00:35.629 --> 00:47.031 I think one of the themes of my work over the last five years has been trying to get the noise out of the way, to try and get the specks of dust out of our eyes so that we can clearly see where we are. 00:48.012 --> 00:58.274 I've tried to remain focused on the biology, I've tried not to take the bait on social media, and I've tried to encourage you all to love your neighbors and not the 00:59.238 --> 01:03.802 the individuals, the imaginary people on social media, but your real neighbors. 01:04.082 --> 01:07.885 And I think we all still have a lot of work to do in that regard. 01:08.445 --> 01:13.529 I'm also trying to teach a new biology 101. 01:15.171 --> 01:16.231 And that's a lot of work. 01:16.312 --> 01:18.413 That's a book, maybe two books. 01:18.493 --> 01:21.936 That's a high school course. 01:23.536 --> 01:28.920 And so I'm pretty busy with that in the background, and I'm really passionate about it. 01:29.361 --> 01:38.888 And so those courses are coming, but today was really such an important chance, opportunity to talk to someone that I decided not to pass up on it. 01:38.968 --> 01:46.734 So the normal, you know, the normal program today, which would be GigaOM Biological's New Biology 101 and a lecture about that. 01:47.832 --> 01:53.754 We are going to bypass that and try to do something a little different and take advantage of where we are. 01:54.354 --> 01:56.474 The voice you're hearing is that of Jonathan Cooey. 01:56.614 --> 02:00.615 I am the chief biologist here in the back of my garage in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. 02:01.075 --> 02:07.137 You can find my work on the Library of Medicine's PubMed website under cooey-jj, the first two initials. 02:08.097 --> 02:09.418 I helped Robert F. Kennedy Jr. 02:09.438 --> 02:11.699 write the Wuhan cover-up book, and now he ignores me. 02:11.719 --> 02:15.300 I was also hired by Children's Health Defense, and then they fired me. 02:15.741 --> 02:20.883 I'm a good friend of Jay Bhattacharya, but since he got a job as NIH director, he doesn't call me anymore. 02:20.903 --> 02:23.144 I'm also good buddies with a guy in Tokyo who 02:23.764 --> 02:47.250 works with Steve Kirsch and I also have a fan on Substack who steals my work and pretends it hers while she's arguing with people like Claire Craig and Pierre Corey who are known meddlers in this multinational sort of scheme to trick everybody about about public health and and so anyway, she writes a lot of this stuff with a guy from Panda named Jonathan Engler. 02:47.370 --> 02:47.690 Anyway, 02:48.651 --> 02:51.454 You might not know that you've been seeing my work in their work. 02:51.474 --> 02:53.316 You might not have known where this is. 02:53.396 --> 02:55.938 But today, Giga Home Biological is doing a special report. 02:55.958 --> 03:00.083 I'm going to interview a woman by the name of Paula Adkin. 03:00.904 --> 03:02.846 And I see that is spelled wrong there. 03:02.906 --> 03:04.567 That's supposed to be E-N. 03:06.349 --> 03:06.870 There we go. 03:08.125 --> 03:16.068 And I think it's really important to put this into perspective, so just let me put myself down here really quick. 03:16.929 --> 03:25.812 I'm making the argument that all the populations in the UK and in Scotland and in the Netherlands and in Germany and in America and in Japan and in China 03:26.492 --> 03:30.196 all had an anticipated rise in all-cause mortality coming. 03:30.576 --> 03:34.340 They had an excess number of old people and a shortage of young people. 03:34.740 --> 03:44.549 That's one of the reasons why across Europe and in America there's this move to migrate people here because they're trying to fill in the bottom of the population pyramid that's really top-heavy. 03:45.009 --> 03:48.733 But that top-heavy population pyramid was anticipated for decades. 03:49.761 --> 04:07.934 And what they did was they murdered people in Scotland, they murdered people in the UK, they murdered people in the United States, and they told us that it was a virus that was spreading, when in reality, it was just a lot of sophisticated lies covering up that murder and an anticipated rise in all-cause mortality that made it real convenient for them to do it. 04:08.474 --> 04:11.276 That's what this myth of an RNA pandemic is based on. 04:11.336 --> 04:12.918 Now, the really sketchy part is, 04:13.738 --> 04:17.380 is that it's for all the marbles, it's for all the grandchildren of Earth. 04:18.000 --> 04:34.967 And involved in this sort of wrestling ourselves, breaking ourselves out of this mystery-solving exercise of COVID-19, we have been led to the goal by people like Robert F. Kennedy Jr., and ICANN, and Big Tree, and 04:35.447 --> 04:45.781 and people as far back as Andrew Wakefield, their golden boy, the guy who started that movement, this fake anti-vaccine movement, which was actually probably fake in its roots. 04:46.261 --> 04:53.591 And we've been kind of waxing intellectual about how weird it is that Andrew Wakefield has a paper with Peter Daszak about measles, 04:54.011 --> 05:11.356 And now 20 years later, he's still kind of involved with MMR and measles and how the same act that he did in the 90s and early 2000s in the UK seems to be recycled behind CHD and ICANN in America right now, behind the Trump administration and the rise of Robert F. Kennedy Jr. 05:11.396 --> 05:14.117 And so it's a pretty bold statement to make. 05:14.557 --> 05:15.978 I think talking about 05:16.718 --> 05:19.261 understanding this background is really where it's at. 05:19.301 --> 05:21.923 That's what I'm trying to do with my biology. 05:21.963 --> 05:35.497 I'm not really a sleuth, but I do know that this bad biology where they say that DNA is everything and it's all genes and evolution is real because DNA is real, this bad biology is being used to cover up that murder. 05:36.854 --> 05:39.936 This bad biology is what the PCR test is based on. 05:39.976 --> 05:48.821 It's what all these stupid protocols are based on, and this clueless nature of this idea that we murdered people, that not giving people antibiotics is murder. 05:49.321 --> 05:50.962 It's not just the wrong protocol. 05:51.422 --> 06:02.428 And so I'm trying to coach everybody on the way out of this with this new biology, life is a pattern, integrity with a trajectory across time, and that's all what we were due today. 06:04.617 --> 06:33.326 Imagine the possibility that we could talk to somebody who already knew that the hypothetical fake anti-vax movement that I was kind of just calling out to see what people would say at first really is, has its roots in a scientific fraud, has its roots in a scientific snake oil salesman that was probably recruited and put in place decades ago to curate a narrative 06:34.471 --> 06:40.335 so that nobody would ever realize that intramuscular injection in general is just dumb. 06:40.856 --> 06:48.441 That putting a combination of substances into the arm or to the buttocks of a healthy young child is absurd. 06:49.582 --> 06:50.883 And today I have the 06:52.336 --> 06:55.838 privilege of talking to the mom of child number four. 06:56.058 --> 07:03.963 And to put that into perspective, what I mean to show you is child number four here in this book, Callous Disregard. 07:04.424 --> 07:06.585 It is a Skyhorse publishing book. 07:06.645 --> 07:11.068 Skyhorse is the book publisher that Children's Health Defense sells all the books of that 07:11.508 --> 07:19.158 published all three of Robert Malone's books, published James Lyons Wyler's book, and published multiple books for Andrew Wakefield. 07:19.178 --> 07:20.059 This is his first. 07:20.419 --> 07:24.544 The second one was Waging War on the Autistic Child, which was published in 2012. 07:24.765 --> 07:26.487 This book was published in 2010. 07:26.907 --> 07:29.951 And so to put Paula's 07:30.752 --> 07:32.133 story into perspective. 07:32.874 --> 07:35.156 I wanted to read the first chapter of this book. 07:36.037 --> 07:39.300 Maybe I should, maybe I'm being really, this is not the right way to do it. 07:39.400 --> 07:40.101 I apologize. 07:40.581 --> 07:48.569 Let me switch back over here and cut and put Paula on the screen. 07:50.671 --> 07:52.352 Thank you very much, Paula, for joining me. 07:52.412 --> 07:53.873 Everybody can see you and hear you. 07:55.415 --> 08:06.984 With your permission, before I ask you to introduce yourself and kind of take the floor, I'd like to read the first chapter of this book just because I think it will refresh your memory as to the 08:08.078 --> 08:24.463 I've been calling it when we talked yesterday and this morning, an oversimplified version of your experience with your son, your successes with your son, and your experience with these people in terms of how they, I guess the best words would be that they co-opted your son's 08:25.680 --> 08:34.882 history, medical history, and tried to make it something that fit a narrative that they probably already had hatched out before you ever met them. 08:36.382 --> 08:37.963 So let's just do that quick. 08:38.583 --> 08:40.683 Let me slide over here. 08:40.723 --> 08:41.424 How would I do this? 08:41.484 --> 08:42.364 I would do this. 08:42.944 --> 08:43.744 I would do this. 08:44.424 --> 08:45.504 Yes, there we go. 08:45.604 --> 08:48.005 And then I put myself down in the corner here. 08:48.585 --> 08:51.786 So this is chapter one of the Callous Disregard book. 08:52.991 --> 09:03.215 On February 28th, 1998, 12 colleagues and I published a case series paper in The Lancet, and that is the paper that features Paula's son. 09:03.715 --> 09:06.557 A respected medical journal as an early report. 09:07.277 --> 09:16.921 The paper described the clinical findings of 12 children with an autistic spectrum disorder occurring in association with a mild to moderate inflammation of the large intestine. 09:17.421 --> 09:23.725 This was accompanied by swelling of the lymph glands in the intestinal lining, predominantly in the last part of the small intestine. 09:24.385 --> 09:38.974 Contemporaneously, parents of nine children associated with onset symptoms, associated onset of symptoms with measles, mumps, and rubella vaccine exposure, eight of whom were reported on in the original paper. 09:39.034 --> 09:41.556 And so your child was number four, is that correct? 09:42.437 --> 09:42.597 Yeah. 09:43.584 --> 09:51.372 And so the significance of these findings has been overshadowed by misunderstanding, misrepresentation, and a concerted systematic effort to discredit the work. 09:51.913 --> 10:03.344 This effort, and specifically the complaint of a freelance journalist, I think his name is Brian Deer, had an intense political desire to subvert inquiry into the issues of vaccine safety. 10:03.985 --> 10:13.030 and legal redress for vaccine damage, culminated in the longest running, most expensive fitness to practice case ever to come before. 10:13.731 --> 10:18.153 So it's a pretty interesting, it seems like it's a cut and dried case. 10:18.173 --> 10:20.014 He had eight kids, they were all the same. 10:21.595 --> 10:33.082 And he's now suffered apparently 20 years of really just having the roughest life, having to deal with the consequences of 10:35.156 --> 10:39.479 of having come out with your child as one of the stories. 10:39.599 --> 10:42.742 So what's not right about that angle? 10:44.123 --> 10:45.844 Please, please, I apologize. 10:45.904 --> 10:51.248 Please take the time to introduce yourself, where you're from, how long this has really been. 10:51.288 --> 10:54.270 Try to put it in perspective like you did yesterday as much as you can. 10:54.310 --> 11:01.536 And I have plenty of notes here to try and steer you and keep you on focus, but you did wonderfully yesterday. 11:01.556 --> 11:02.517 I'm sure you're gonna do fine today. 11:05.031 --> 11:09.960 Well, what I would like to say is there's more to the Lancet study than what we see. 11:09.980 --> 11:13.707 I in the world has been totally fooled by all of those in the controversy. 11:17.523 --> 11:20.005 Colin, my son, is 38 now. 11:20.025 --> 11:23.488 It's been 27 years this has been going on. 11:24.509 --> 11:26.831 The study was done in 1996. 11:28.273 --> 11:29.514 Well, he went to the hospital in 1996. 11:29.874 --> 11:35.639 I'd just like to say a little bit about him before he had the vaccinations. 11:36.420 --> 11:56.738 He was born double breech, he had jaundice and he was a month early but he was a very happy contented baby and then when he was 11 months old he started getting a lot of infections, chest infections, throat infections, ear infections, gastroenteritis and he had antibiotic after antibiotic. 11:56.878 --> 12:01.642 I don't know how many he had but just almost every month he was on antibiotics for a couple of years. 12:02.583 --> 12:22.621 what you did is your doctors told you as a parent you assumed that they knew best but what started happening was they started getting what was called patchy development so you would develop so far and then you would be at standstill for a little while and you didn't lose any skills at first 12:23.476 --> 12:27.237 but he did start getting diarrhoea from around about a year old. 12:28.418 --> 12:31.379 And that's when he was being given all the antibiotics. 12:31.539 --> 12:38.742 And I think what it was doing was it was ruining his immune system and it was destroying the good bacteria that we need. 12:39.902 --> 12:44.804 But I didn't know anything about things like that in them days, so I just kept taking him back to the doctors all the time. 12:45.925 --> 12:46.365 And then 12:47.205 --> 12:56.376 One of the first things I noticed was he had started walking around the furniture when he was around about 11-12 months but then he just never walked and then he started crawling. 12:58.018 --> 13:03.665 So he was kind of losing skills a little bit there and he was potty trained and then he lost that. 13:04.696 --> 13:08.440 And then when he was 18 months, I realized he had stopped talking. 13:08.600 --> 13:16.268 He had said some words, mom, dad, nana, hello, all appropriate and at appropriate times, and he had just lost all of his speech. 13:16.809 --> 13:18.791 But he was still happy, still content. 13:19.051 --> 13:24.897 He still played, but his development seemed to be slowing down a little bit. 13:25.999 --> 13:36.912 So I started getting some investigations done and he ended up having bromelain as he has and he ended up having a hearing aid, but he's not deaf. 13:37.953 --> 13:42.258 And then what happened was he just become more and more ill. 13:44.814 --> 13:52.437 And then he did get diagnosed as having learning disabilities, but I was told that when he was eight, he might be like five-year-old. 13:53.818 --> 14:04.122 But he didn't appear to have autism initially, but when I've looked back now, he did start having some signs when he was around about two, it's just I didn't know the signs at that time. 14:04.482 --> 14:09.524 But because he was so happy and content, I wasn't really that worried. 14:10.771 --> 14:11.752 And then what happened? 14:11.772 --> 14:17.857 And so at this time, he did at this time, he didn't have acute GI problems. 14:18.638 --> 14:22.861 No, he did have diarrhea, but it got much, much worse later. 14:24.223 --> 14:31.469 So what happened was he at the age four, he got MMR. 14:32.609 --> 14:37.551 and DPT, you said, DPT vaccinations all in one day. 14:38.231 --> 14:40.252 So you've got six vaccinations on one day. 14:40.372 --> 14:44.593 I don't know why he was sent for that many, because I have since read that that should never, ever happen. 14:45.794 --> 14:46.934 But I didn't know that. 14:47.234 --> 14:49.275 You just did what you were told to do. 14:49.975 --> 14:54.237 And there was no immediate reaction that I can recall. 14:54.917 --> 15:00.159 But within a couple of weeks, he did start, he started 15:00.629 --> 15:07.015 getting a little bit hyperactive, but within six weeks he had lost every single skill that he had. 15:07.976 --> 15:11.740 The only thing he was left able to do was feed himself with his phone. 15:14.082 --> 15:16.864 And he went hyperactive. 15:17.145 --> 15:17.845 He didn't sleep. 15:17.945 --> 15:21.148 I got two to three hours sleep every night for the next few years. 15:21.168 --> 15:23.770 And I put him on a diet. 15:24.370 --> 15:26.032 And he just didn't know who I was. 15:26.052 --> 15:29.775 And he was an absolute total world of his own. 15:30.015 --> 15:33.678 He lost his eye contact, which you can see on the photographs. 15:33.698 --> 15:39.242 He was a beautiful, smiling baby before he had lost his eye contact. 15:39.482 --> 15:40.143 And he was just... 15:42.446 --> 15:46.952 He was just in a total daze and he became very noise sensitive. 15:48.114 --> 15:49.476 Yeah, that's the photograph. 15:50.117 --> 15:53.902 I think that was about a year and a half after the one where he's got no eye contact. 15:53.922 --> 15:56.586 He's got his hands on his ears because he couldn't bear noise. 15:57.608 --> 16:07.038 So when I used to take him out, if there was a bus went past or a motorbike or anything like that, he would have a massive tantrum in the middle of the street because he couldn't bear the noise. 16:07.058 --> 16:11.622 He used to hit his head with his hands all the time. 16:11.642 --> 16:14.225 And it was because he didn't like the noise. 16:14.245 --> 16:15.987 He didn't like crowds. 16:16.707 --> 16:19.970 And in them days, there was only one in 10,000 autistic children. 16:20.050 --> 16:24.734 So my son was the only one in the area and there was nobody else. 16:25.755 --> 16:36.485 So when I used to take him into the local town, he would have these mass tantrums in the town and people would look at me and say, has that mother got no control over that child? 16:37.786 --> 16:39.968 But nobody knew, you know, 16:41.449 --> 16:44.933 that he had been normal and this had just kind of happened within weeks really. 16:46.855 --> 16:56.425 So like I had remembered seeing a documentary a year or two before on autism and I was asking the question, is he autistic? 16:56.845 --> 17:04.393 But initially I was being told no because he still did have some affection at first but then he did lose that in time as well. 17:05.916 --> 17:12.922 But the other thing that happened within a couple of months of getting all of those vaccinations was the diarrhoea got very, very severe. 17:13.243 --> 17:16.806 And he had diarrhoea over 10, 11, 12 times a day. 17:17.486 --> 17:20.129 And it was very foul smelling, watery. 17:20.970 --> 17:23.472 And it just went straight through him. 17:23.672 --> 17:24.993 And he was in a lot of pain. 17:25.373 --> 17:28.356 And he used to scream on and off all day in pain. 17:28.736 --> 17:30.318 He was banging his head off the walls. 17:31.175 --> 17:33.236 He was banging his feet off the radiators. 17:33.937 --> 17:37.839 And it was just his way of trying to communicate that he was in all this pain. 17:38.459 --> 17:46.624 And the only way I could calm him was to literally get him on the floor and kind of roll my arms around him and massage him. 17:47.824 --> 17:49.845 And there was nothing else I could do for him. 17:50.986 --> 17:57.690 And one of the other noticeable things was I had a group of friends that I had been friends with for years when we all went to college together. 17:59.332 --> 18:22.371 and I had to stop him coming to the house because my son used to get really really upset because there was a few other little children there and he couldn't bear the noise and he couldn't bear being in a room where there was more than one person talking at a time and he used to go up to his bedroom to get out the way and so I had to stop all socializing and he had to be on his own really. 18:23.968 --> 18:32.371 So then what happened after that was, it was mother's gut instinct really, but I knew that he was reacting to phones. 18:32.591 --> 18:34.852 By this time he had started reacting to phones. 18:36.073 --> 18:37.393 Can I pause you for a second? 18:37.593 --> 18:38.714 Can I pause you for a second? 18:39.294 --> 18:48.258 This is not meant any other way than your phone, your phone microphone combined with your accent sometimes makes it challenging for some of these Americans over here. 18:48.838 --> 18:51.099 So she's saying, she's saying that, 18:52.446 --> 18:54.607 that she was sure that he was reacting to food. 18:55.167 --> 18:56.367 It was a mother's instinct. 18:57.027 --> 18:59.688 She even had a pun there where she's like, it's a mother's gut instinct. 19:01.508 --> 19:04.769 So she's about to explain what she did in response to this. 19:04.829 --> 19:07.750 So just making sure everybody knows what you're saying and maybe you can catch up. 19:07.770 --> 19:08.450 So go ahead, please. 19:09.690 --> 19:11.391 I'll try and talk a little bit slower. 19:11.531 --> 19:12.511 No, it's okay, really. 19:12.651 --> 19:16.112 It's just hard to mix these sounds together. 19:16.152 --> 19:16.552 So go ahead. 19:18.680 --> 19:22.923 So he was nearly six years old and I decided to put him on a diet. 19:23.243 --> 19:31.328 And I realized that it was every Sunday night when he was getting sweets off my mother that he would never sleep at all on that night. 19:31.348 --> 19:33.529 So I thought when he's reacting to the colorings. 19:34.410 --> 19:42.014 So what I did was I put him on a diet and there was no books in them days, no internet, nothing to help you, nothing written on autism. 19:43.055 --> 19:46.097 So I put him on a wheat-free, dairy-free, 19:46.770 --> 19:49.571 sugar-free and added a free diet. 19:50.652 --> 19:52.213 And the first week was hell. 19:53.093 --> 19:55.114 But I didn't really know anything then. 19:55.214 --> 19:56.835 I nearly took him off the diet. 19:57.996 --> 20:02.898 But it was all the toxins coming out of his body, as I learned years later. 20:03.398 --> 20:08.201 And on the seventh night, the day I was going to stop it, he slept all night for 12 hours. 20:08.721 --> 20:10.482 and he hadn't done that for about three years. 20:12.423 --> 20:16.104 So that was the start of like some healing taking place. 20:17.004 --> 20:20.386 And he's almost slept every night ever since, unless he's got the wrong food. 20:22.446 --> 20:23.627 No interruptions at all. 20:23.647 --> 20:27.068 And then I healed his bowels. 20:27.128 --> 20:28.289 It took us about a year. 20:29.789 --> 20:31.710 But I didn't just use diet. 20:31.830 --> 20:36.272 I also used probiotics and antifungals 20:36.992 --> 20:44.394 because I believe that he got candida, which is a structure of the bowel and I believe that was brought on by the overuse of antibiotics. 20:46.555 --> 20:55.817 So I did that and I did get some setbacks as I was doing that because I was obviously disturbing the bowel and he did get some bouts of diarrhea again. 20:55.837 --> 21:01.779 And I had a local dietician that wanted to get involved and she was wanting to introduce foods. 21:02.419 --> 21:06.001 Again, far too quickly and too many foods at a time. 21:06.401 --> 21:12.663 And he started reacting again with his behavior problems and his gut problems. 21:12.803 --> 21:16.185 So I told the dietician I wanted to do it on my own. 21:19.026 --> 21:21.287 And then it took just over a year. 21:21.307 --> 21:24.528 He did get a couple of really bad infections in that time as well. 21:24.948 --> 21:30.050 But after about 12, 13 months, his bowel problems were gone. 21:31.273 --> 21:32.894 and he had been very, very ill. 21:34.154 --> 21:40.957 The pain went, so he wasn't hitting his head anymore, he wasn't banging his head off the walls anymore, it had all been pain-related. 21:42.157 --> 21:46.899 So, call it what you want to, I'd healed, I always say healed, healed his gut. 21:49.400 --> 21:59.244 So I did that, and then what happened was a guy called Paul Shattuck, he's from Sunderland University in the UK, 22:00.485 --> 22:02.546 and he's an autism researcher. 22:02.566 --> 22:12.253 I found out what I was doing with the diet and he asked if he could come out and see us and talk about the effects that I had been getting. 22:12.593 --> 22:14.275 Can you spell Paul's last name? 22:15.656 --> 22:21.320 Yes, it's S-H-A-T-T-O-C-K. 22:21.960 --> 22:22.681 Very good, thank you. 22:24.537 --> 22:39.764 He came out in October 1994, and he spent a good four hours or so at the house, and he said he was with his daughter at the time, who was doing some kind of study around that subject. 22:39.804 --> 22:41.004 That's what he had called his. 22:41.465 --> 22:43.446 But how would he have heard of you? 22:43.506 --> 22:44.626 How would he have heard of you? 22:45.687 --> 22:51.389 I'm not sure, but I've been trying to think back, and I've got a lot of notes, you know, in different places. 22:54.625 --> 23:21.927 there's another story behind that that because I was all at the time I was getting newsletters from um rimland in in in america bernard rimland um he ran like an autism research unit okay in america and I had been getting newsletters from there and he was a guy that had an autistic child um and they were in they were doing different therapies and things um 23:23.673 --> 23:26.357 So I don't know if it was something to do with that. 23:29.682 --> 23:34.049 After I put him on the diet, I found out about a group called the Allergy Induced Autism Group. 23:35.260 --> 23:37.102 and which is a British group. 23:40.065 --> 23:43.709 And so I don't know if it was through one of those people. 23:43.769 --> 23:46.332 I can't remember exactly how I got in touch with them. 23:46.812 --> 23:53.199 But I do know the year before he came out that I had spoke to somebody on the phone and I had I actually wrote to them. 23:53.219 --> 23:55.161 So I don't know where I got the information from. 23:55.221 --> 23:58.124 But I wrote to them asking for information on autism. 23:59.708 --> 24:13.383 So anyway he came out and I gave him what he said in a letter within days was copious amounts of information and then he had a theory 24:14.884 --> 24:27.428 I mean one of the things that I was quite surprised about years later was I had mentioned Dr Wakefield who I had been told about and I had mentioned about vaccines causing autism and he denied that he'd ever heard of Dr Wakefield. 24:27.448 --> 24:31.530 He said he had never heard of him and he had never heard of vaccines causing autism. 24:32.250 --> 24:38.435 But I know this is a lie now, because I found out years later that he had already been doing some research with Dr. Wakefield. 24:40.557 --> 24:50.785 And they were researching something to do with peptides that were derived from incomplete breakdown of wheat and milk. 24:51.405 --> 24:52.466 Wow. 24:53.907 --> 24:54.488 OK. 24:55.949 --> 24:56.850 This is crazy. 24:58.406 --> 25:03.110 But I had told him that I had my son on a wheat and dairy-free diet. 25:04.010 --> 25:10.375 But what he said at the meeting was, I'm not sure what he meant by it, but he said I was four months ahead of his research. 25:10.915 --> 25:20.382 I don't know if he meant I'd started my diet four months before he started doing his research, but I think he had just started his research when he came to see me. 25:21.882 --> 25:31.007 But I did, it can be, somebody might be able to find out, but him and Wakefield apparently had done this research, and I thought it was just Paul Shattuck. 25:31.067 --> 25:35.029 I knew nothing about Wakefield doing it until I read about it in 2016. 25:35.529 --> 25:36.029 Wow. 25:38.090 --> 25:40.551 That's, it's a weird admission, right? 25:40.591 --> 25:44.013 Because you don't know why they would lie to you, but clearly he's lying to you. 25:44.053 --> 25:46.394 I mean, if the notes are right, he's lying to you. 25:46.454 --> 25:47.695 That's remarkable. 25:49.182 --> 26:01.040 so he okay go ahead sorry i interrupted you my bad so what is paul what what does paul try to do does he steal your does he steal your ideas or does he interview you about the diet a lot or not really 26:02.763 --> 26:16.611 Well, he just came to the house, he just wanted all of the information on what I had done and what positive things I had gotten out of it, you know, like healing his gut, which I think I'd already said on the phone, but like he came out to get lots of detail. 26:17.111 --> 26:21.953 But I've always been a note-taker, so I give him loads of notes. 26:22.674 --> 26:26.756 I give him everything I've given him, all of his reactions and things. 26:30.322 --> 26:32.844 So that was that. 26:33.724 --> 26:38.767 But one of the next things that happened, there was a sequence of events, really. 26:38.788 --> 26:43.751 I had already started going to a carer center where I live in North Shields. 26:45.192 --> 26:47.993 And there was a lady there called Sandy McKean. 26:48.554 --> 26:50.775 And she was a nurse advisor. 26:51.616 --> 26:54.358 And she had an autistic son. 26:54.938 --> 26:57.780 And she believed that the vaccines had damaged him. 26:58.760 --> 27:11.938 So I was going down there, like to go to kind of a support group type of thing, and there was a note on the wall, like a printout, and it was a story of a child. 27:12.038 --> 27:16.103 I can't remember if it was her child or if it was somebody else's because it was a long time ago. 27:16.864 --> 27:21.626 but it was about a child and I couldn't believe that it just sounded like my child. 27:21.806 --> 27:42.374 This child apparently had had MMR and he had regressed, lost skills, got bowel problems and so I started talking to Sandy and she was guiding and advising us on what to do and she thought that it was MMR that had caused his problems 27:43.715 --> 28:05.475 So what I had done was set up a support group with jabs from a place called Cheshire and as far as I know it was the only other jabs group within England and it was a lady called Jackie Fletcher that had set it up and ran this jabs group. 28:09.395 --> 28:17.383 So that was within weeks, eight weeks I think, or it was within weeks anyway of meeting Paul Shatner. 28:18.204 --> 28:21.887 So now let me just clarify for everybody listening as I'm taking notes here. 28:21.967 --> 28:26.011 So somebody by the name of Sandy McKean has an autistic son, 28:27.152 --> 28:49.639 that she's blaming on vaccines and they kind of happen to meet or come in contact because Paula sees a poster at the place where she goes every once in a while that seems to describe another child that's eerily similar to hers and her experience up until this point has been that her son is the only example she knows of. 28:50.319 --> 28:57.021 So at the time, it seemed very serendipitous and she probably was very happy or maybe got a little bit of hope from that. 28:57.562 --> 29:10.746 But in retrospect, after years and years of everything else that's gone on, it almost seems like they came to her town and established a jabs group in her town specifically because her kid is in that town. 29:10.786 --> 29:13.227 Am I kind of getting that feeling right? 29:14.531 --> 29:16.193 I think so, yeah, yeah. 29:16.453 --> 29:27.563 I mean, at the time I believed everybody and I trusted everybody and I didn't realise there was any power of people, but it just seems it was a sequence of events that happened. 29:28.584 --> 29:38.193 So what happened after that, which was again, very shortly after that, it was September 94 that Paul came to see me and then in November, 29:39.967 --> 29:47.413 94, the 19th of November 94, to be precise, there was a meeting at a town hall in the next town to me. 29:47.433 --> 30:02.964 In that meeting, the people that were there included Richard Ball, who was the solicitor from Hodge Jones and Allens, I think it was called initially, 30:04.731 --> 30:18.062 was down south in London I think it was and he was the main solicitor that was dealing with the MMR cases and so he was there and there was somebody called Dr Corville from the public health laboratory 30:19.281 --> 30:21.644 and Jackie Fletcher from JABS. 30:22.284 --> 30:39.982 She came up from Cheshire and obviously Sandy was there and there was there was lots of other people there but there was a newspaper article which I do have a copy of and it actually said it's titled JABS safety fear for flood hotline 30:41.411 --> 30:49.656 And it talks about Sandy and how she's been inundated with phone calls from people as far as Australia. 30:51.417 --> 30:59.802 And it talks about the MMR and then it tells you about this meeting at the town hall and when it's going to be and the people that are going to be there. 31:00.703 --> 31:10.469 So I actually went to that meeting and they were basically guiding people on taking legal action. 31:13.779 --> 31:34.287 So, but what, what Sandy had, I think she'd already suggested it, was for me to see a solicitor in Newcastle and what the local solicitor, and I went to see this solicitor in 1995, and I'd give them all the details about what had happened to Colin, about his, you know, his history, and, and, 31:38.115 --> 31:38.575 left it. 31:38.635 --> 31:47.641 What happened was, well actually it was a man solicitor at first, but what happened was he left the case lying on his desk for six months and never heard anything. 31:48.341 --> 31:54.905 So I wrote, I wrote to them and then the solicitor that was in charge seen it and got the file back out. 31:56.366 --> 32:01.069 But after a while, she kind of said that she didn't think I was going to get legal aid. 32:03.362 --> 32:10.584 But she also, at the same time, was writing to the main solicitors and telling them about my case. 32:10.764 --> 32:14.364 But I actually think I was being guided towards the main solicitors. 32:17.025 --> 32:21.205 You know, whether that was deliberate, whether they left it lying for six months, I don't know. 32:21.285 --> 32:24.446 But I was guided towards the main solicitors. 32:25.326 --> 32:29.407 So I went back to see Sandy because I was obviously in touch with her quite a bit. 32:30.942 --> 32:51.011 Let me just say while you're here to make sure that the parallel is seen here because, and you might not be aware of this, but in America, the lawsuits that are fighting against COVID or COVID mandates or COVID injuries or COVID protocols or whatever, 32:51.969 --> 32:56.431 are being sort of herded into a couple different groups, right? 32:56.811 --> 33:05.876 Children's Health Defense has some lawyers, ICANN has some lawyers, and you can't really find an independent lawyer to take your case and do it. 33:05.976 --> 33:14.060 And you're sort of left in the lurch until you find your way into one of these groups of people that I don't think is ever going to fight for you. 33:14.100 --> 33:15.421 And so it's a very curious 33:16.181 --> 33:24.828 part of the story for me that you sought, you know, independent legal address and then ended up having to go with everybody else anyway. 33:24.888 --> 33:28.371 So I don't think you're crazy for thinking that you were funneled there. 33:29.672 --> 33:31.013 Yeah. 33:31.293 --> 33:39.080 Just before I forget, because I'm going on to something different, but I'll just mention it could be absolutely totally coincidence, but Sandy McKean was actually murdered. 33:40.794 --> 33:44.976 around about 2000, 2001, at the height of the controversy. 33:46.757 --> 33:49.698 I mean, obviously, people can look that up if they want to. 33:49.758 --> 33:56.761 I remember looking it up myself, and from what I remember reading, she got murdered in her own bed overnight. 33:57.862 --> 34:01.803 And it was apparently from somebody that she was seeing on the internet. 34:01.823 --> 34:05.425 She was apparently having an affair and seeing somebody once a fortnight on the internet. 34:06.653 --> 34:10.978 and apparently the next day they got caught. 34:11.658 --> 34:19.727 I'm just mentioning that because it just seems like there's been a few murders amongst people that are involved in this controversy. 34:20.528 --> 34:23.271 Can you give me Sandy's last name? 34:24.612 --> 34:25.133 McKean. 34:25.833 --> 34:28.296 It's M-C and then K-E-A-N? 34:29.574 --> 34:33.356 Yeah, I think that's how you spell it, yeah. 34:33.416 --> 34:35.117 She had an autistic son as well. 34:37.758 --> 34:39.879 So you went to the town hall meeting. 34:40.439 --> 34:41.320 That's where you left off. 34:42.840 --> 34:46.682 Yeah, and then I did end up changing solicitors. 34:46.742 --> 34:47.923 It did take a little while. 34:47.943 --> 34:56.567 And then those cases went on from... I mean, I first started out in 95, where I was 34:58.240 --> 35:02.783 you know, go to the local health authority and finding out what vaccinations and things you have. 35:04.364 --> 35:12.308 I think it was something like 96, 97 when I was with the new solicitor and it went on till I think it was 2007. 35:12.849 --> 35:26.797 And Richard Barr actually changed solicitors, that's three times, he moved into three separate solicitor's offices, like different companies, kept changing companies. 35:28.883 --> 35:47.438 And one of the things I think I should probably mention that happened in September 2008 was I got a letter from Isabella Thomas, who was one of the main campaigning parents, which is also Lancet 12 parents with two children in the study. 35:49.940 --> 35:56.265 And I got a letter from her asking if I would 35:58.467 --> 36:00.468 back Dr. Wakefield up. 36:01.788 --> 36:09.390 And I don't know if I should backtrack and talk about when I went to the hospital, because that was actually before, long before this. 36:10.250 --> 36:12.791 When you went to the hospital for Wakefield? 36:13.911 --> 36:14.171 Yeah. 36:14.451 --> 36:15.031 Yeah, OK. 36:15.131 --> 36:20.153 I mean, that definitely we should back up to that, because I kind of was wondering whether we skipped that or not. 36:20.193 --> 36:20.433 I was. 36:20.973 --> 36:21.753 But yes, please. 36:21.833 --> 36:22.053 So. 36:23.194 --> 36:23.294 So. 36:25.892 --> 36:30.242 So it was September the 29th 1996 that he went to the hospital. 36:34.694 --> 36:41.856 And I don't know why, but some papers that you read say it was September the 15th, 1996 on the internet. 36:42.196 --> 36:48.939 So, but I do know there was, one of that child was referred on September 1996 as well. 36:49.219 --> 36:53.120 So, I don't know why it's written down as two different things, but I know because I kept the diary. 36:53.400 --> 36:54.720 I know exactly when he went in. 36:56.441 --> 37:02.703 So, he went in on the Sunday night and he'd come out on the Friday and it was the most horrific week of my life. 37:05.210 --> 37:08.159 I was on my own with my son and I stayed in the room with him. 37:12.202 --> 37:17.025 Dr. Wakefield was there, John Walker-Smith here with us. 37:17.745 --> 37:25.569 And they did speak to us on the Sunday and they came and took notes about, you know, how we had been, about the diet and the diary and different things. 37:27.310 --> 37:38.036 I mean, what I should say is before that I had actually wrote Dr. Wakefield a letter, which I've got to say as well, Jackie Fletcher was the person that advised me to do that. 37:38.796 --> 37:48.624 because when the solicitor in Newcastle, where I'm from, was telling me I couldn't get legal aid, Sandy advised me to ring Jackie Fletcher and speak to her. 37:49.424 --> 38:04.296 So I spoke to Jackie and Jackie said, you need to get in touch with Dr Wakefield and he will be able to do tests that will say whether my son had suffered from the MMR vaccination or not. 38:05.399 --> 38:10.925 So for me, as a desperate parent, you know, didn't know why my son had gone the way he was. 38:10.965 --> 38:17.411 It was like bereavement when I lost him to, you know, lost all of his skills and everything. 38:17.431 --> 38:22.556 And I was kind of desperate, really, to find out what had happened to him. 38:23.117 --> 38:24.738 And so. 38:24.919 --> 38:25.039 And. 38:29.665 --> 38:35.830 So I spoke to Jackie and Jackie asked me to write a letter to Dr Wakefield explaining. 38:36.631 --> 38:37.472 So that's what I did. 38:37.552 --> 38:42.456 I wrote quite a long letter to him and we spoke on the phone. 38:42.957 --> 38:51.604 He rang my home up and we spoke on the phone at length and he asked me to go to the GP and ask for a referral to see him. 38:54.066 --> 39:10.560 Let me just clarify, if I remember right what you told me yesterday, your son has already been basically no GI problems at all up until this point now, except for one very brief week where you gave him the wrong cod oil or something like that, and you figured it out, right? 39:11.882 --> 39:12.262 No, go ahead. 39:17.031 --> 39:20.394 Yeah, what it was, was when I told you I had healed him with the diet. 39:20.454 --> 39:22.676 So he was kind of six by the time he was healed. 39:24.098 --> 39:27.881 At this point, he was nine and three quarters, nearly 10 years old. 39:28.442 --> 39:33.827 But just after I wrote to Dr. Wakefield in the April of 96. 39:34.928 --> 39:35.088 Yeah, 96. 39:35.128 --> 39:40.974 And then in the June, I had him on a cod liver oil supplement. 39:42.534 --> 39:45.780 It was a dietician in Fiara wanting us to put him on supplements. 39:45.840 --> 39:53.453 So I put him on the cod liver oil supplement and he reacted with diarrhea, but it was very short-lived, a couple of weeks maximum I think it was. 39:55.487 --> 40:04.351 In that time, I wrote to Dr. Wakefield again after that because he had actually said to us in April, give us a few months because I'm recruiting people to do the research. 40:04.792 --> 40:13.776 But if you write to us in a few months, we should almost be ready to start the research and for your son to come down to the hospital. 40:14.456 --> 40:21.720 But I wrote back to him in June with the concerns about the diarrhoea at the time and asked him if there was anything he thought I could do. 40:22.380 --> 40:24.021 And again, I spoke to him on the phone. 40:24.915 --> 40:29.017 And that was when he told us to go for the referral to the JP. 40:29.057 --> 40:30.297 He said they were almost ready. 40:30.457 --> 40:32.899 You know, they were recruiting people for the research. 40:33.759 --> 40:37.160 So that was in the June and then September the 29th we went. 40:38.421 --> 40:43.703 And like I said, it was a horrendous week. 40:44.364 --> 40:51.087 So on the second day they did the biopsies, they get what they call it. 40:51.107 --> 40:54.208 So when they looked at his bowel, there's a name for it. 40:55.626 --> 40:58.188 I guess they call it an endoscopy among other things. 40:58.208 --> 41:00.009 Okay. 41:00.269 --> 41:02.591 And I remember I was there with him. 41:02.651 --> 41:04.012 Dr. Wakefield was there. 41:04.272 --> 41:08.695 I don't think he was the one that performed it, but he was standing there. 41:08.715 --> 41:11.517 There was a few of them and it took about an hour. 41:13.339 --> 41:18.182 And then that day, later on that night, 41:20.291 --> 41:22.233 collapsed three times in the hospital. 41:22.654 --> 41:30.582 I had taken him for a walk along the corridors and he collapsed three times. 41:30.662 --> 41:32.704 He was very, very ill that week after this. 41:36.128 --> 41:37.910 And, you know, I was on my own in the corridor. 41:37.930 --> 41:38.971 It was really difficult. 41:39.051 --> 41:39.592 But anyway, 41:41.584 --> 41:50.544 weren't going back to their room and they were wanting to do more tests that week and they did try doing some more tests and for one of them three nurses held them down. 41:51.460 --> 42:15.760 because he wouldn't keep still, you know, he was non-verbal, he didn't know what was happening to him, and he didn't like, they were trying to give him an injection at the time, and anyway, they had to hold him down for that, and they did, I know they did vitamin B tests, and there were some tests where they were trying to give him a drink, but he wouldn't drink it because it was awful tasting, 42:16.841 --> 42:19.925 He couldn't swallow tablets because he can't swallow tablets. 42:19.945 --> 42:24.370 He doesn't know how to do that because his skills are quite low. 42:24.390 --> 42:28.736 I have a high school kid who still can't swallow tablets. 42:28.776 --> 42:29.377 Are you kidding me? 42:33.218 --> 42:42.404 So one of the things I did want to do was give him a lumbar puncture and then about midweek they wanted to do that, but he was like really ill and they changed their mind. 42:42.484 --> 42:45.687 Then they were going to do it the next day, but they changed their mind again. 42:45.747 --> 42:53.873 And I think it's because they realized he had, you know, I think he had reacted to that initial biopsies that had been taken. 42:53.913 --> 42:55.214 He was being sick all the time. 42:55.234 --> 42:57.495 And he was like, 42:59.980 --> 43:01.422 dreaming through the night things. 43:02.583 --> 43:12.573 So what happened was, on the Friday when they'd finished doing what they wanted to do with them, basically, I didn't drive, I had getting the lift down there and 43:13.376 --> 43:21.105 We were going to go home, I think it was on the Saturday, but on the Friday they paid for a taxi all the way from London to North Shields, which is about 400 miles. 43:21.786 --> 43:27.152 I remember it was £100, but they paid for it, and that was all them years ago. 43:28.113 --> 43:31.757 So they obviously had money somewhere to be able to pay for that, but that's what happened. 43:32.549 --> 43:44.136 and there was no after-treatment, no before-treatment, he just went in the hospital and on the second day was there, got this test done and all the other tests that were done. 43:45.137 --> 43:51.181 But Dr Wayfield did keep in touch with us for a while and we did speak on the phone sometimes. 43:52.071 --> 44:01.717 afterwards and he was telling us that there were no there was more children went after that and he was saying that they were he was finding that they all had the same condition. 44:01.737 --> 44:12.963 I can't remember how you pronounce it lymphoid something it's got a long name and it's in his book it's if you can find it written up what the kids had. 44:14.232 --> 44:21.214 But the condition got changed from that, lymphoid nodular or something, and it got changed to colitis. 44:21.594 --> 44:23.894 Lymphoid nodular hyperplasia. 44:23.914 --> 44:25.435 That's it. 44:25.455 --> 44:26.995 Yeah, yeah. 44:27.175 --> 44:29.076 That is what he said he had. 44:29.516 --> 44:32.476 But Colin had no bowel problems when he went there. 44:32.596 --> 44:40.758 Now he had, like I said, he had the short-lived ones in the June, and he went there on September the 29th, he had absolutely no bowel problems whatsoever. 44:41.379 --> 44:42.039 He was healed. 44:44.431 --> 44:58.522 But I went because I was a desperate player and I wanted to know what had happened to my child and the promise of doing some tests to find out if it was MMR because I didn't know what had caused this horrendous reaction and loss of my son. 45:00.223 --> 45:02.685 So he did keep in touch. 45:02.885 --> 45:10.651 And then what happened out of the blue, following February, 97, which was I think round about the time that the Lancet study came out, 45:11.673 --> 45:17.697 I got a letter from JP and it had said that I had wanted to put him on medication. 45:17.717 --> 45:22.160 I can't think what it's called. 45:22.180 --> 45:29.786 It begins with an S. I did later find out it was meant to be an adult medication, this medication. 45:30.806 --> 45:38.492 And I was very, very reluctant because- I'm sorry, what kind of medication did you say it was supposed to be? 45:40.954 --> 45:46.256 I read later that it was in a medication that adults only adults are meant to have adults. 45:46.376 --> 45:46.576 Okay. 45:46.616 --> 45:46.816 Yes. 45:46.936 --> 45:47.176 Great. 45:47.196 --> 45:47.516 Great. 45:47.557 --> 45:47.697 Sorry. 45:47.757 --> 45:48.197 I missed that. 45:48.377 --> 45:51.318 You know, we'll probably be looked up, but I don't know. 45:51.498 --> 45:54.320 I don't know that the accuracy of that. 45:55.260 --> 46:01.063 Um, and then, so I've got this letter and I went to see me JP and, um, I knew nothing about it. 46:01.103 --> 46:02.143 I haven't heard about it. 46:03.544 --> 46:06.305 So I've got in touch with, um, Dr. Wakefield. 46:06.798 --> 46:09.059 And I think I spoke to John Walker Smith as well. 46:09.079 --> 46:15.500 And they were trying to convince us that this would really, really helpful for Colin. 46:15.980 --> 46:19.381 But they said it's not only for the bowel problems, it's for behaviour problems. 46:19.521 --> 46:21.341 And some children have started talking. 46:22.422 --> 46:30.504 And what they did was they got two of the mothers, Rosemary Kethwick and Isabella Thomas, who were the two main campaigning parents. 46:30.604 --> 46:32.844 But they're both Lancet 12 parents as well. 46:32.864 --> 46:36.305 But both of those parents are very close to Dr Wakefield. 46:36.750 --> 46:41.131 and they've got, you know, that part of the charities that they've set up together. 46:42.192 --> 46:53.795 And those two parents spoke to us on the phone and they convinced us that it was worth it because, and you can imagine me as a parent, my son had lost all of his speech and didn't think that something was going to help him speak again. 46:53.815 --> 46:59.777 And I kind of hummed him hard because I didn't really want him on the medication, but I thought, well, I've got to try it. 47:01.058 --> 47:05.039 So I put him on the medication and it made him ill. 47:07.100 --> 47:09.181 He got really bad diarrhea back. 47:09.361 --> 47:10.501 He got stomach pains. 47:10.861 --> 47:12.121 He got behavior problems. 47:14.762 --> 47:15.982 And I had to take him off it. 47:16.002 --> 47:18.803 He was on it a few weeks and I just took him back off it again. 47:19.443 --> 47:23.584 Never been on medication since. 47:23.824 --> 47:24.644 So they did that. 47:25.785 --> 47:33.066 I do know they were also wanting to do, because I got some letters about it, they were also wanting to do some other treatment. 47:33.886 --> 47:35.947 I can't think what it's called. 47:36.647 --> 47:39.208 somebody might know transfer factor or something. 47:39.648 --> 47:39.908 Okay. 47:41.529 --> 47:41.929 I don't know. 47:41.969 --> 47:42.790 I would have to look it up. 47:43.250 --> 47:48.132 He's been through a couple different things of trialing a couple different things, but I'm not sure. 47:50.253 --> 48:01.078 I'm just really shocked because that part also feels as though they used other study participants to coerce you into participating in another study, which is... 48:02.096 --> 48:08.701 Pretty remarkable, again, given the fact that as a doctor, he knows that your son didn't fit all the criteria. 48:08.741 --> 48:19.590 Yes, he had a lot of the cognitive impairments, but he didn't have the key sort of, the key part of the story was already gone and fixed. 48:19.670 --> 48:25.114 And so it's very remarkable that almost in a wanton need to ignore it. 48:28.176 --> 48:30.178 I find it really shocking. 48:32.830 --> 48:40.873 Yeah, well, I think what happened after that, obviously we're going through all the court cases and everything. 48:40.893 --> 48:45.014 And Dr Wakefield actually was at my legal aid hearing. 48:45.134 --> 48:56.598 I didn't know he was going to be there, but he came to Newcastle from London and he was one of the people on sitting around the table at the legal aid hearing, which I thought was quite strange. 49:00.169 --> 49:05.656 so and I just had to sit you know there for half an hour and talk about like what had happened. 49:06.818 --> 49:15.389 So one of the things that happened later on again, this parent Isabella Thomas, she wanted me to sign a letter of support to Dr Wakefield 49:16.118 --> 49:19.281 And it was for the GMC hearing that he was going through. 49:19.301 --> 49:31.113 And I said to her that I did, because I believed in Dr. Wakefield then, I totally trusted him. 49:31.353 --> 49:34.616 After all, he was the first doctor that I thought had sat and listened to us. 49:34.636 --> 49:38.019 I don't think it was genuine, but at the time I thought it was. 49:39.160 --> 49:44.905 And I said to her, I'm sorry, but I'm an honest person and I can't support him with this. 49:45.285 --> 49:53.692 I do wish him all the best, but I can't because at the hospital, he reacted really badly. 49:53.712 --> 49:55.093 He collapsed three times. 49:56.354 --> 50:02.539 And I said that I felt like the medication that he was given was being done for research purposes and not for my son's benefit. 50:04.386 --> 50:06.948 And I said, so I just could, I can't sign it. 50:07.468 --> 50:09.669 So I just kind of forgot about it. 50:09.769 --> 50:14.753 And to be honest, I didn't really keep up that much with the news about them and stuff. 50:14.773 --> 50:20.197 But I wasn't, you know, I certainly wasn't following it at the time. 50:21.377 --> 50:23.519 And then I did start following it from 2010. 50:23.579 --> 50:23.859 But, um, 50:27.805 --> 50:46.648 what happened was that I started looking on the internet around about 2010 because I heard like I realized he was going through this JMC case and I started looking things up and I was looking up about the JMC case, I was looking up about the Lancet 12 study, I was looking up about Dr Wakefield and 50:48.223 --> 50:50.224 Brian Dia, who later brought him down. 50:52.165 --> 50:53.145 Lots of different things. 50:53.465 --> 50:57.187 And I came across the letter on the internet and it was signed. 50:57.347 --> 51:03.510 Well, it was not signed, but it had the names underneath the letter of all the parents that had apparently signed. 51:03.750 --> 51:08.852 My name was on the letter and I never gave permission for them to do that. 51:09.768 --> 51:22.341 So as if I was one of the parents, and I think there was about five or six of the Lancet 12 parents on there, but two of them were the same parents. 51:22.601 --> 51:26.686 It was Isabella Thomas and her husband, but they had two children in the study. 51:27.366 --> 51:28.568 One was Rosemary Keswick, 51:29.832 --> 51:36.055 There was mine, and I think it was a guy called Sleet, I think. 51:36.435 --> 51:39.317 They have something written down. 51:42.170 --> 51:43.571 It's still remarkable. 51:43.672 --> 51:49.756 I mean, if you're saying, it's just remarkable. 51:50.837 --> 52:01.605 It really does seem like they were just looking for example children and Andrew Wakefield's job was to craft a narrative about them too. 52:02.226 --> 52:06.449 And he may have already had been given the narrative that he was supposed to find kids that fit. 52:08.170 --> 52:09.131 It's pretty remarkable. 52:10.393 --> 52:11.513 Yeah, I think so now. 52:11.593 --> 52:13.134 At the time, I was so naive. 52:13.834 --> 52:16.255 I didn't believe there was any corrupt people in the world. 52:16.615 --> 52:23.637 I just, you know, I didn't realize that mainstream media is corrupt. 52:23.677 --> 52:26.318 He's richer now than he's ever been in his life. 52:26.358 --> 52:29.299 He has a wonderful ranch in Austin, Texas. 52:29.359 --> 52:31.760 The guy's doing just fine, I can tell you that. 52:32.340 --> 52:38.862 And he regrets not being able to retire and live the rest of his life on his boat in the Caribbean because he says his wife won't let him. 52:40.242 --> 52:40.482 Yeah. 52:41.303 --> 52:46.289 I mean, one of the things as well, which I don't think I mentioned to you, was his wife, Camilla. 52:46.410 --> 52:47.511 Is it Camilla? 52:48.372 --> 52:50.635 I don't know, the one on the cover of the book, I guess. 52:51.776 --> 52:54.419 Yeah, his wife, who he's not with now, but at the time. 52:56.280 --> 53:04.483 because I had told them that I had kept paperwork, including the letters I had wrote to Dr Wakefield and various things. 53:04.723 --> 53:10.805 And she actually emailed me personally and asked me for this information. 53:10.825 --> 53:14.767 And that was round about 2005, I think. 53:15.207 --> 53:18.208 I think it was when he was going through one of his court cases because he's 53:19.308 --> 53:23.794 He's tried to sue a few people, and he never sued any of them. 53:23.854 --> 53:27.137 Brian Deer mainly, who I don't trust neither. 53:27.157 --> 53:34.586 He is the journalist that brought Wakefield down in later years, in the 2000s. 53:34.987 --> 53:38.471 And he kind of brought him down, you know. 53:39.111 --> 53:41.573 You pull the study apart and different things. 53:43.075 --> 53:50.621 But if it's anything like what they're doing, like what I think they've done to us in America, then that guy is on Andrew's team. 53:50.961 --> 54:02.451 That's why it works, you know, because otherwise he would go for the throat and the story would get worse and worse and he would have followed up with you and it would have been a real thing, but instead it just kind of stops where they need it to stop. 54:03.496 --> 54:07.679 Well, one of the things I kind of realized as the years went on, I started looking stuff up. 54:07.779 --> 54:12.102 I came across two books as well, which was written by the parents. 54:12.983 --> 54:15.125 I'd never been approached about these books. 54:16.426 --> 54:18.467 Some of the Lancet 12 parents were in them. 54:18.627 --> 54:19.408 There's two of them. 54:19.448 --> 54:20.749 I can't remember the titles. 54:21.369 --> 54:28.094 They were being sold through Cry Shame, the website, that some of these people run. 54:30.401 --> 54:33.282 I think it's Isabella that runs that one as well. 54:33.302 --> 54:39.224 And it was the parents and some other people that had children that had gone autistic. 54:39.604 --> 54:44.806 But wouldn't you think if I was a Lancet 12 parent that they would have got in touch with me? 54:45.606 --> 54:47.067 But I knew nothing about them. 54:48.147 --> 54:49.668 But I would have told the truth, you see. 54:49.908 --> 54:59.432 And they knew that, because I had been saying this, even to the solicitors, I was saying, I cannot go to these court cases in London, and I need to speak. 54:59.472 --> 55:03.974 Because if I do, I will be speaking the truth, and I'll be saying what happened at the hospital. 55:05.235 --> 55:07.216 So I think they deliberately left me out of it. 55:10.497 --> 55:15.559 I mean, you know, if their story was real, then in actuality, can we use your son's name? 55:15.579 --> 55:16.680 His name's Colin, right? 55:20.997 --> 55:22.899 Colin should have been the control group, right? 55:22.959 --> 55:25.181 Because he didn't have the bowel part. 55:25.601 --> 55:34.130 So it would have been a beautiful experiment had there been a signal in some of these kids and not in your son, but some of the symptoms were shared. 55:34.210 --> 55:34.590 That's how 55:35.899 --> 55:40.563 That's how an irreducible and irreducibly complex biological system works. 55:40.623 --> 55:54.615 It's not always going to be this cut and dried little easy peasy pattern where we can just separate the measles from the mumps and from the rubella and then all the kids will be fine, which is kind of what that story ended up being for a really long time in the media, right? 55:54.655 --> 56:01.320 That he was just advocating for separate vaccines and he thought that the putting the vaccines together, what was causing it and 56:02.501 --> 56:08.003 It's just remarkable that your son's history is so much more complicated than that, and they obviously know that. 56:08.763 --> 56:19.287 And then, yeah, it's... The other thing is, which I think I mentioned to you yesterday, Colin is in that book that you have there, it's Child No. 56:19.307 --> 56:26.030 4, but I can't remember if it's a paragraph or if it's a chapter on its own, but he's called the re-challenge case. 56:26.490 --> 56:31.072 So he talks about Colin as the re-challenge case and what he means by that. 56:31.852 --> 56:52.715 by that is because Colin got the measles vaccination at 15 months and then they sent Cord out to get these other six vaccinations on the same day but all throughout the court cases and everything the DPT was never mentioned and I never thought about it because to be honest I completely forgot, well I didn't 56:53.490 --> 56:57.312 even though he got six until years and years later when I got the paperwork. 56:58.512 --> 57:01.133 And it was always just said it was MMR, it was MMR. 57:02.954 --> 57:09.457 So he was the re-challenge case for MMR, but really he was the re-challenge case for day painting as well. 57:10.778 --> 57:17.921 So like there's quite a... I think if Marlowe wrote Colin in that book than what there is any other child, if I remember rightly, 57:19.622 --> 57:32.399 But the other thing as well, which I find really strange, is child number eight, who is the only girl in the study, actually came from the same GP surgery as myself. 57:33.183 --> 57:39.268 So I assume she lived where I live in North Shields, if not in the surrounding town. 57:39.769 --> 57:42.411 And I don't have a clue who this family is. 57:43.292 --> 57:48.196 And I didn't have a clue that she was part of the Lancet 12 until I read the book. 57:48.436 --> 57:53.180 And I've actually seen some information on the internet. 57:53.660 --> 57:55.202 And that was around about 2010 that I found out. 57:59.305 --> 58:08.590 So I have asked some of the people involved in this controversy if they could let us know and just it seems like nobody wants to let me know who this family is. 58:10.251 --> 58:13.233 Didn't one person even tell you that there was no girl in the trial? 58:14.301 --> 58:15.761 Yeah, that was Isabella Thomas. 58:16.442 --> 58:27.625 I rang her up and I spoke to her and I said, I want to find this family, this girl, because they live in my town or they live near my town or they did. 58:28.105 --> 58:31.126 And I said... Whitley Bay, it says in the book. 58:32.747 --> 58:35.107 Yes, that's right. 58:35.668 --> 58:38.568 She lived in Whitley Bay and I lived in North Shields. 58:38.628 --> 58:39.829 It's basically the next town. 58:39.989 --> 58:40.209 Okay. 58:41.678 --> 58:56.211 So Isabella, like I said, she said that what she said was there was no girl in the study poll and I said there was because I've read the book and I've also seen it on the internet. 58:56.691 --> 59:08.982 Maybe she thought that I'd never read the book because, you know, I hadn't really been taking that much interest until this point and she said, oh yes, you're thinking about the study in America 59:09.978 --> 59:11.019 And I said, no, I'm not. 59:11.359 --> 59:13.521 I'm talking about the study in England. 59:14.122 --> 59:17.986 And I said to her, I'm going to find out who this family is. 59:18.726 --> 59:19.707 Still haven't found out. 59:21.109 --> 59:27.615 There's been a few people within that controversy that I've asked, and nobody seems to want to tell us, or they're saying they don't know who it is. 59:29.977 --> 59:33.540 Brian Deer, the journalist, I did meet him in 2014. 59:36.460 --> 59:40.868 By this time I was very active in looking stuff up from 2010, mainly 2012, 13, 14 I was very active. 59:46.116 --> 59:48.678 But to be honest, I got very, very scared. 59:49.338 --> 59:54.302 I'm not going to go into that on this programme, but I'm very scared. 59:55.843 --> 01:00:01.766 Because when I got active, I got a lot of problems, including with my internet. 01:00:02.367 --> 01:00:12.574 So anyway, I did get in touch with Brian Deer and I wrote to him and had quite a few emails backwards and forwards. 01:00:12.994 --> 01:00:14.695 And he came up to meet me, came from 01:00:15.529 --> 01:00:17.570 wherever he lives down South London Way. 01:00:17.590 --> 01:00:23.434 And he met me in a hotel in Newcastle, which is the main city near me. 01:00:24.255 --> 01:00:27.237 And I spent about four hours, I would say, with him. 01:00:27.257 --> 01:00:30.899 And I tried to trust him. 01:00:31.419 --> 01:00:37.003 I gave him, after this, I gave him at least 100 documents and paperwork. 01:00:39.264 --> 01:00:41.666 I wanted to trust him because I thought he might be able to help us. 01:00:43.631 --> 01:00:45.773 But he didn't. 01:00:47.254 --> 01:00:55.701 The reason I got in touch with him was because I was keeping in touch with Paul Shatty. 01:00:57.843 --> 01:01:04.009 And when Paul came out to see me one day, I said to him, I need to know who this family is. 01:01:05.197 --> 01:01:09.938 And by this time, I was starting to realize that there was something not right. 01:01:10.638 --> 01:01:22.081 Just things that had happened, things that were being said, delay tactics about people within the controversy saying they were going to meet us, and it was delay tactics after delay tactics, and the meetings never happened. 01:01:22.621 --> 01:01:25.742 And I started realizing that there were things were just not adding up. 01:01:26.742 --> 01:01:34.064 So I said to Paul, if it's the last thing I do on this Earth, I will find this family. 01:01:35.344 --> 01:01:41.969 And surprisingly he said the name Brian Deer. 01:01:44.390 --> 01:01:50.374 And I was quite shocked because I thought these guys are on opposite sides of the controversy, like Paul Shattuck is. 01:01:51.477 --> 01:01:58.346 You might not hear him mentioned very often, but he was doing research with Dr. Wakefield before any of this ever happened. 01:01:59.387 --> 01:02:05.314 And I know that he is friends with him and they have been on seminars and things together. 01:02:05.654 --> 01:02:08.318 And so this guy recommended that you contact Brian Deer. 01:02:09.076 --> 01:02:10.117 Well, he just said it. 01:02:10.157 --> 01:02:11.099 That's the way he said it. 01:02:11.179 --> 01:02:14.723 When I said, if it's the last thing on earth that I'll do, I'll find this family. 01:02:14.803 --> 01:02:16.225 And he just said, Orang India. 01:02:16.325 --> 01:02:17.567 And I was quite taken aback. 01:02:18.088 --> 01:02:19.870 And it took us weeks to think about it. 01:02:20.411 --> 01:02:21.953 And I thought, well, what do I do? 01:02:24.216 --> 01:02:25.958 Because I could actually see from what 01:02:26.876 --> 01:02:41.984 I read everything meticulously on the internet about what Brian Deer was saying about Wakefield, what Wakefield was saying about Brian Deer, about the court cases that Wakefield was going through when he was suing Brian Deer and then he was backing off from the court cases. 01:02:42.585 --> 01:02:45.286 And I was thinking this just does not add up at all. 01:02:45.306 --> 01:02:48.588 There's something very phony about the whole thing. 01:02:49.972 --> 01:02:58.034 And the fact that I was being, they weren't coming forward to have meetings with me and to speak with me. 01:02:59.714 --> 01:03:03.035 So, but in the end, I thought, well, I'll just, I'll get in touch with them. 01:03:03.855 --> 01:03:10.936 So I did ask him if he knew who the family was and he came up with an address and what he be. 01:03:11.997 --> 01:03:18.818 And he said, this is where they lived when, you know, when they took out the court case 01:03:19.878 --> 01:03:23.221 when they originally went through the courts. 01:03:25.482 --> 01:03:25.823 Anyway. 01:03:27.173 --> 01:03:28.574 But that address was dead, right? 01:03:28.594 --> 01:03:29.695 That address was nothing. 01:03:29.775 --> 01:03:32.896 So as far as you know, you couldn't find anything there. 01:03:33.997 --> 01:03:35.138 No, I couldn't find anything. 01:03:38.019 --> 01:03:39.020 So that was that. 01:03:39.240 --> 01:03:42.282 And I don't trust Brian Deer. 01:03:42.522 --> 01:03:43.222 I really don't. 01:03:44.183 --> 01:03:45.484 Things are not adding up at all. 01:03:45.504 --> 01:03:53.548 And I started getting very active in trying to expose things and trying to tell my side of the story. 01:03:54.309 --> 01:03:55.710 But I was very, very scared. 01:03:56.921 --> 01:04:02.824 Um, well, I want, I want everybody to know, first of all, Paula has detailed journals of all of this. 01:04:02.884 --> 01:04:05.746 She kept a lot of meticulous records that she still has. 01:04:05.806 --> 01:04:12.189 And I think she's probably sitting on something that could be very, you know, useful for her family or whatever. 01:04:12.409 --> 01:04:16.171 I really want to encourage everyone to understand this is a story ongoing. 01:04:16.211 --> 01:04:19.352 Can we, or can I ask how old is your son now? 01:04:19.532 --> 01:04:20.133 How is he? 01:04:20.233 --> 01:04:21.754 How are you guys as a family? 01:04:21.774 --> 01:04:21.814 Um, 01:04:23.784 --> 01:04:25.505 He's 38 now. 01:04:25.865 --> 01:04:25.505 38? 01:04:26.685 --> 01:04:27.506 My gosh. 01:04:28.366 --> 01:04:29.886 He was nearly 10 at the time. 01:04:30.987 --> 01:04:34.528 So this has gone on, Ole Mieres is still going on. 01:04:34.568 --> 01:04:38.089 So this controversy has been going on since, well, 96 really. 01:04:40.090 --> 01:04:43.092 And and nothing's changed in that time, really. 01:04:43.492 --> 01:04:45.453 And they haven't found any answers. 01:04:45.913 --> 01:04:48.775 I haven't apparently found the answer to autism. 01:04:48.795 --> 01:04:53.598 We all know it's well, one of the things is vaccinations. 01:04:53.758 --> 01:04:57.840 I believe my son went autistic for a number of reasons. 01:04:58.861 --> 01:05:01.782 I think the overuse of antibiotics destroyed his foot. 01:05:02.643 --> 01:05:06.865 And so that he didn't have the friendly good bacteria that we all need. 01:05:07.469 --> 01:05:11.110 which made him a disadvantage to reacting to vaccines. 01:05:11.130 --> 01:05:13.271 But I believe he reacted to every vaccine now. 01:05:15.592 --> 01:05:20.053 And I know there's a thing called J-alpha protein defects that some children have. 01:05:21.334 --> 01:05:34.678 And when they get certain vaccines like the DPT and the measles vaccine, it totally destroys all the vitamin A so that then they're more prone to having 01:05:35.561 --> 01:05:37.503 and autistic type problems. 01:05:37.963 --> 01:05:39.344 So I don't know if he has that. 01:05:40.005 --> 01:05:43.288 And I think, you know, he did have a bad birth as well. 01:05:43.308 --> 01:05:47.071 They couldn't get the doctor out of bed when I was due to have a cesarean. 01:05:47.412 --> 01:05:49.133 And he was born double breech normally. 01:05:49.153 --> 01:05:52.496 And that could have had its disadvantages. 01:05:52.676 --> 01:05:54.618 But he was developing to a degree. 01:05:54.658 --> 01:05:56.359 He was a very, very happy child. 01:05:58.241 --> 01:06:00.383 And he was destroyed. 01:06:01.587 --> 01:06:06.608 Yeah, I can't express my sadness with the story. 01:06:06.688 --> 01:06:08.409 I mean, I really am very sad about it. 01:06:08.449 --> 01:06:10.529 I'm sad about every one of these stories that I hear. 01:06:10.609 --> 01:06:18.091 But more importantly, I'm very sad about how, as you said, they have made no progress. 01:06:18.131 --> 01:06:23.992 That's the part that's most remarkable to me, having figured something was wrong only because of the pandemic. 01:06:24.032 --> 01:06:28.373 Before that, I was, you know, you need to catch my kid up on vaccines? 01:06:28.413 --> 01:06:29.674 Go ahead, use both arms. 01:06:30.894 --> 01:06:31.835 I was a moron. 01:06:31.915 --> 01:06:44.003 Even though I was an academic biologist studying the brain and thinking I was all bright and smart, I didn't understand anything about general biology of my children the way I should have. 01:06:44.043 --> 01:06:47.365 I didn't think about it the way I should have and didn't question anything. 01:06:47.946 --> 01:06:49.347 And even after I started to 01:06:50.765 --> 01:06:59.317 To understand something was wrong, it still took me many years to get where you and your son have been for a long time, where you know that this is a pretty complicated mess. 01:07:00.558 --> 01:07:04.243 We are in a wonderful symbiosis with a microbiome. 01:07:04.283 --> 01:07:07.307 We carry a compost heap around in our guts. 01:07:08.749 --> 01:07:17.717 that balance is thrown off, then I'm sure we are hyper-vulnerable to an intramuscular injection of metals and toxins and proteins. 01:07:19.438 --> 01:07:24.002 I just, I can't thank you enough, number one, for sharing your story. 01:07:24.262 --> 01:07:33.670 Number two, for, I hope we can remain in touch because I think there's going to be a million people who would like more details as to what you did or how you did it and your experience with the diet. 01:07:34.951 --> 01:07:42.876 I'm I'm there's gonna be lots of questions about who contacted you and how Many other people knew this that could have spread it around. 01:07:42.956 --> 01:08:02.386 I mean, it's a you never had any contact with Polly Tommy this person that Wakefield worked with for a while you did Actually did what well I didn't I didn't I wrote to why you know when the housing was being built years ago with it should build a big build a big housing complex or she was gonna build a big big housing complex and 01:08:03.032 --> 01:08:10.897 And I was interested in whether they were going to build some in my area because they were meant to be building it in different parts of the country. 01:08:11.297 --> 01:08:15.259 So I wrote to her and asking her that question and she didn't reply. 01:08:15.279 --> 01:08:21.763 So I wrote to her again and she got somebody else to, I can't remember the name of the guy, but somebody else wrote back. 01:08:22.163 --> 01:08:24.765 I can't remember what they even said about it now. 01:08:25.245 --> 01:08:31.709 I think it was something like at the moment there was no plans in my area, but she didn't actually directly contact us herself. 01:08:33.349 --> 01:08:33.469 Okay. 01:08:33.569 --> 01:08:36.710 Can I just say one more thing about how my son was now? 01:08:37.210 --> 01:08:38.151 Sure, please. 01:08:38.971 --> 01:08:41.111 I don't think everybody would realize it. 01:08:41.551 --> 01:08:51.434 If you look at my son now, and you've seen him in the room, and he'd just be walking backwards and forwards, but I do a program with him, and I have workers, and he did nothing for years. 01:08:51.474 --> 01:08:53.775 He literally just rocked all the time. 01:08:53.855 --> 01:08:58.736 When he went to school, he learned nothing because he couldn't bear the noise, and he used to just crouch in the corner. 01:08:59.774 --> 01:09:24.330 and so he did nothing when he was at school and then in 2009 I went to America to do a program and anyway I came back and it took us a whole year to get him to do anything on the table but on the on the floor I would get crayons and it's all hand over hand he can't do anything on his own and eventually got him to do jigsaws hand over hand arts and crafts colouring in 01:09:26.991 --> 01:09:27.512 games. 01:09:27.592 --> 01:09:29.833 Now he plays games and he can throw a dice. 01:09:29.853 --> 01:09:30.694 He couldn't even do that. 01:09:30.714 --> 01:09:31.915 He had no pincer grip. 01:09:32.015 --> 01:09:38.499 It took us four months to get him to hold his hand out and point his finger every day. 01:09:39.740 --> 01:09:48.366 So he does this programme now in his own quiet little room and the programme's fantastic for him because at low he's very, very disabled. 01:09:49.526 --> 01:09:53.268 He can walk for miles, but he's disabled in the fact that he can't do a lot. 01:09:53.508 --> 01:09:55.769 But he's very, very intelligent. 01:09:56.969 --> 01:10:02.731 But he's stuck in his own body because he gets the answers right to nearly every question that I ask him. 01:10:03.172 --> 01:10:03.992 I can read a book. 01:10:05.302 --> 01:10:21.668 ask him a question, put like say six different answers out, and what you have to do is put your hand underneath his, like as if his brain can't do it himself, and then he'll point to the right answer every time, and he knows everything about history, geography, everything. 01:10:22.729 --> 01:10:31.492 But to look at him, he just goes around making these noises, he's in pants, he's doubly incontinent, he can't make a cup of tea, he can't dress himself, 01:10:33.561 --> 01:10:39.146 So anybody that walked in would just think he's got no brain, he's very intelligent. 01:10:39.667 --> 01:10:53.761 So a lot of these kids out there that have been damaged by the vaccines or whatever that it is that is causing this problem, they're stuck inside of their own body, they're there, they're taking stuff in and I believe 01:10:54.446 --> 01:11:04.657 I've taught him so many things over the years and so some other people have taught other people to teach him and I believe he is taking every single detail in that we're teaching him. 01:11:06.339 --> 01:11:11.625 It's probably the most important part of this interview and I'm so happy you made sure that it got in there. 01:11:13.246 --> 01:11:18.392 As a parent of three kids, I don't have any words for you sharing your story with me. 01:11:18.472 --> 01:11:19.533 I just can say thank you. 01:11:21.155 --> 01:11:30.946 And if you ever want to come back again and talk about the diet, or talk about this again, or if I find something, I mean, whatever I can do to repay this, you have been 01:11:33.450 --> 01:11:39.752 This has been, I just am shocked that they, I've been saying that they haven't made any progress in five years. 01:11:39.772 --> 01:11:42.153 They haven't made any progress in 34 years. 01:11:44.634 --> 01:11:46.795 It's a crisis we're under right now. 01:11:46.875 --> 01:11:48.596 These people are just despicable. 01:11:50.984 --> 01:12:10.087 Yeah I mean the one thing I've got no support I'm actually I'm totally on my own with this I've been trying to expose things and you know just get the story out so people can see different sides of it and let people investigate it whatever but this needs investigating and I'm scared I'm scareder than ever but you know what 01:12:11.540 --> 01:12:23.551 it needs to get out there because there was other children after Colin, there was hundreds of children that he investigated, their bowels, in England and then in America. 01:12:23.571 --> 01:12:25.934 It wasn't just Colin, 01:12:26.893 --> 01:12:52.167 And I actually think it's all been but I don't know that obviously I'm kind of guessing here But I think it's been for research purposes or whatever reason and I don't even know about anything to do with MMO I really don't know but I think they've wanted to get in the guts of these children for research Yeah, I I really I don't know how to say how pertinent is what you're saying. 01:12:52.227 --> 01:12:53.628 I've been teaching for the last 01:12:54.830 --> 01:13:06.795 five years but only very recently have I been enlightened as to how powerful this interaction with our microbiome is and how central it is to our existence. 01:13:08.636 --> 01:13:12.518 It's been a history lesson for me because there's lots of people who know this. 01:13:12.598 --> 01:13:14.999 I think part of the illusion of the pandemic is 01:13:15.599 --> 01:13:20.322 ignoring that bacteria have their own viruses and some of them are good and some of them are bad. 01:13:20.882 --> 01:13:36.470 If you spent the last 20 years thinking about your son's gut, then I'm sure you know this and it's a, it is a remarkable omission if they start telling us that all the viruses are just replicating in our, in our lungs and they need to squirt stuff in our arm to fix us for them. 01:13:38.710 --> 01:13:42.435 Is there anything else I can, I can, you want to say or I can do here? 01:13:42.455 --> 01:13:46.099 I don't want to like say a bunch of details and stuff like that. 01:13:46.139 --> 01:13:48.883 People can contact me and then I can put them in contact with you. 01:13:49.023 --> 01:13:53.468 For now, I mean it's quite overwhelming for me, you know, having to do this. 01:13:53.528 --> 01:13:54.370 It's quite emotional. 01:13:54.990 --> 01:13:57.472 To be honest, it is so complex. 01:13:57.773 --> 01:14:00.075 It's such a long, long story. 01:14:00.135 --> 01:14:01.976 There's so much more detail to this. 01:14:01.996 --> 01:14:02.937 That isn't just it. 01:14:04.779 --> 01:14:06.360 And I've been stopped from speaking up. 01:14:06.420 --> 01:14:07.041 I know I have. 01:14:08.402 --> 01:14:11.305 And it's just the complexities of it. 01:14:12.106 --> 01:14:12.926 It's just too much. 01:14:13.367 --> 01:14:14.227 There's too much to say. 01:14:14.247 --> 01:14:16.870 I've tried to give you the basics of it, really. 01:14:18.678 --> 01:14:20.340 We did a very good job. 01:14:20.380 --> 01:14:21.962 Yesterday was also really good. 01:14:22.182 --> 01:14:26.847 I got a lot of notes yesterday and I think between today and yesterday I have a really good idea of 01:14:29.372 --> 01:14:32.773 your experience relative to the funny story in this book. 01:14:32.934 --> 01:14:33.214 I don't know. 01:14:33.334 --> 01:14:34.494 I don't really know what to say. 01:14:34.514 --> 01:14:36.855 I think it's a good place to end. 01:14:37.876 --> 01:14:39.596 I would like to say good evening to you. 01:14:40.377 --> 01:14:42.437 Thank you so much for sharing this hour with me. 01:14:43.118 --> 01:14:50.501 And if there are people that are trying to get in touch with you, I will put them in touch via the email that I have on an individual basis. 01:14:50.561 --> 01:14:51.061 I guess I won't 01:14:51.482 --> 01:14:53.704 I'll try not to pass on any crazy people to you. 01:14:55.225 --> 01:15:05.094 And if I get some, I mean, I do have a few people that I think are okay and are still patriots in America trying to figure this out too. 01:15:05.154 --> 01:15:11.279 So it may be, yeah, it will be that we need to talk again, but I can't thank you enough. 01:15:12.663 --> 01:15:14.284 for spending this time with me. 01:15:14.325 --> 01:15:15.185 Thank you, thank you, thank you. 01:15:15.505 --> 01:15:18.668 Thank you for listening because I'll be honest, I don't trust many people. 01:15:18.688 --> 01:15:26.814 After what I've been through all these years and trusted everybody at one point, I trust very, very few people and I trust you. 01:15:27.735 --> 01:15:28.756 Well, thank you very much. 01:15:28.816 --> 01:15:32.599 I don't know what to say other than I'm very, very happy we got this done. 01:15:33.419 --> 01:15:34.480 And take care of yourself. 01:15:34.520 --> 01:15:36.862 Please stay in touch and I will as well. 01:15:36.922 --> 01:15:39.965 I have a lot of emails to catch up on and a lot of things to read over. 01:15:40.025 --> 01:15:41.586 So, thank you, thank you, thank you. 01:15:42.791 --> 01:15:43.371 Thank you. 01:15:43.691 --> 01:15:44.011 Bye-bye. 01:15:44.551 --> 01:15:45.411 Bye. 01:15:46.752 --> 01:15:52.233 Thank you guys for joining me on this very special occasion. 01:15:52.973 --> 01:15:54.993 I'm just so happy that I got to meet her. 01:15:55.033 --> 01:15:56.193 I'm so happy she reached out. 01:15:57.914 --> 01:15:59.574 What a moving interview. 01:15:59.594 --> 01:16:07.635 I think there's only one conclusion to come to, that Wakefield was put in place and scoured the earth for a story that he could sell. 01:16:07.695 --> 01:16:09.196 Maybe a couple stories he could sell. 01:16:09.236 --> 01:16:10.996 Maybe there were a couple iterations of it. 01:16:11.833 --> 01:16:19.555 And Paula Aitken and her son got caught up in this mess in a very, very bad way, I think. 01:16:19.835 --> 01:16:35.639 And it's just a small little piece of the puzzle, I think, in order to understand what's going on and understand why this guy Wakefield has been in front of Congress and has been behind Children's Health Defense and ICANN for so many years. 01:16:35.699 --> 01:16:37.119 Thank you very much for joining me. 01:16:37.339 --> 01:16:40.340 And I hope to see you again tomorrow, real soon, at least, real soon.