[SPEAKER_01]: Hello and welcome to the Kim Iverson Show.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much for being here on our new Showtime, 2 p.m.
[SPEAKER_01]: Pacific, 5 p.m.
[SPEAKER_01]: Eastern.
[SPEAKER_01]: Those of you who are new, there's a lot of new viewers because we changed time slots.
[SPEAKER_01]: Those of you who are new, welcome to the show.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a show for independent-minded people who do not stick to one side or tribe or narrative.
[SPEAKER_01]: Instead, we like to assess each individual issue and politician and subject independently from an independent lens every single time and sometimes
[SPEAKER_01]: we agree with people, sometimes we disagree with them, and that's okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's part of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're not partisan here on the Kim Iverson Show.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, we do have a really interesting guest for you tonight.
[SPEAKER_01]: Jonathan J. Cooey was a scientific advisor to Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
[SPEAKER_01]: for his best-selling book, The Wuhan Cover-Up.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe you read it.
[SPEAKER_01]: But in December of 2023, he was fired.
[SPEAKER_01]: Why?
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, Jay says, as he was researching, it became clear to him that the entire premise of the lab leak theory was wrong.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, he's not one that then thinks, oh, no, it came from a woman eating a bat in a Wuhan wet market.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's not what he thinks.
[SPEAKER_01]: What was wrong about the lab leak theory?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's very interesting, and tonight he's here to tell us.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Jonathan J. Cooey, former scientific advisor to Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
[SPEAKER_01]: for the best-selling book, The Wuhan Cover-Up, says the entire premise of the lab leak theory was wrong.
[SPEAKER_01]: What was wrong about it?
[SPEAKER_01]: He's here to tell us.
[SPEAKER_01]: Jonathan, welcome to the show.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much for being here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow, thank you very much for having me here.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm actually still shocked that this is happening.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm excited.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, tell us about your background first.
[SPEAKER_01]: Give us your academic background, your expertise.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm very short through the corner.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I was chasing tenure for about 15 years as a neurobiologist, which basically meant I was doing mouse experiments and occasionally helping with rat or monkey experiments.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I was a microscope jockey.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and I was really trying to climb the ladder of any university that would have me.
[SPEAKER_00]: And as it says, as it was at the start of the pandemic, I found myself at the university of Pittsburgh school of medicine.
[SPEAKER_00]: And at the start of the pandemic, I found myself very interested in the idea that there was this extreme difference between some people on the internet who thought that a lab leak was not only possible, but likely, and then all these people on TV who said that a lab leak was ridiculous.
[SPEAKER_00]: And like so many people on planet Earth, I got absolutely enthralled by this, the concept that people would cover this up and whether or not this was
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, happening and did we have to worry about it coming to America?
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I really spent January, February and March of 2020 following everyone and anyone I could to try and figure out what was happening because I thought we were witnessing something, you know, real and in real time experiencing the cover up of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And long story short, I ended up kind of sacrificing that career thinking that speaking out about the lab leak was important enough to yell at people in the hallways of that medical school and to tell people they were crazy for reading the New York Times.
[SPEAKER_00]: And of course, in a university, you don't get through the hierarchy very long if you yell at the people that are above you.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, of course, they asked me to send in my badge and keys.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I kind of lost that career and started
[SPEAKER_00]: what I thought was a crusade for the truth.
[SPEAKER_00]: And in the end, I found myself where a lot of other people found themselves in the middle of the pandemic, just trying to understand what was going on and knowing that the truth was probably not available for free.
[SPEAKER_01]: So let me understand, you were canceled twice, essentially.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you were for your opinions on COVID and the virus.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the first time was when you were you were working as an assistant research assistant professor at the University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine.
[SPEAKER_01]: And when you were there, and this was at the beginning of the pandemic, everybody, everybody was saying LabLeak was a conspiracy theorist, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, they were all this came from a bat at the Wuhan market or something like some woman ate bat soup or I'm not really sure what the theory was there.
[SPEAKER_01]: But but no one was willing to look at the LabLeak.
[SPEAKER_01]: And those of us that said LabLeak were censored, canceled.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's what happened to you at your at your job.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, definitely, and maybe more pertinent to the story, I even got sucked into what ended up to be some of the mainstream sort of stuff with this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sorry about that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because the group on Twitter known as Drastic actually contacted me quite early, and I helped them to get at least three of the papers that they got published in peer-reviewed journals as one of the reviewers of those papers.
[SPEAKER_00]: In a lot of ways, I've been connected to trying to solve the puzzle and what I thought was a legitimate way of doing it, publishing peer reviewed papers about the fear and cleavage site and reviewing papers for these researchers about the fear and cleavage site or about the other odd sequences that they found at the beginning of the pandemic.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I really engaged in this mystery solving exercise to the point where I genuinely felt as I was putting everything on the table for it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's what
[SPEAKER_00]: for a long, long time made me convinced that I was right, that it was a lab leak and that we were witnessing a cover-up.
[SPEAKER_00]: But as you said in the intro, I've come to understand that as being the central mythology and sort of the trick that everybody was meant to fall for.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so just going back to...because we're definitely going to get into what you actually think happened.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: But when it comes to the lab leak, so when you were at the University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine and everybody was saying it wasn't a lab leak, what made you think it was a lab leak at that point?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's more a question of gut feeling at that stage, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm trying to be brutally honest with you here.
[SPEAKER_00]: As a biologist and more specifically a neurobiologist, I have a very specific set of skills and a very specific set of expertise that
[SPEAKER_00]: If I was really like most of my colleagues, I would essentially only know that stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I was a kid who grew up collecting snakes and breeding rabbits and watching birds.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I've kind of been a biologist my whole life.
[SPEAKER_00]: And from the very beginning of the pandemic, the whole feeling of what they were trying to give us, I knew that something needed to be paid attention to.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so my default was to start reading.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's where I kind of got myself into trouble because the general feeling of the medical faculty was, is that reading any amount of papers was not going to qualify me as somebody who could speak out usefully about this stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I'm not a virologist, I work on mouse brains, you know.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that attitude is something that people oftentimes use as almost a weapon to you in that scenario.
[SPEAKER_00]: In a university, they will beat you down about that with your own research and try to make you stay in your lane and make sure you don't encroach on them.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you learn very well not to step on each other's toes and how to compliment each other's work and point out the shortcomings as nicely as possible.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of like the way that they talk in Congress.
[SPEAKER_00]: We talk to each other that way in science.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so speaking out about this and questioning this, I don't know how to say it any other way, but it seemed unreasonable, given what I was trying to present, the discussions I was trying to instigate, that these people were reacting this way.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that spurred me on, and I will also admit it, this work on the internet really, really convinced me that this international group of people was figuring out, and so I got sucked in big.
[SPEAKER_00]: This University of Pittsburgh, in the end, said that they saw my YouTube channel.
[SPEAKER_00]: I had been riding a bicycle and talking about this stuff on my bike, as naively as I was.
[SPEAKER_00]: I had been doing that before the pandemic.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they said that they saw my YouTube channel and that a newspaper had contacted them, and that I was not to talk about
[SPEAKER_00]: the pandemic with any newspaper because that wasn't my expertise.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay?
[SPEAKER_00]: Question mark.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's really where this started.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I didn't have much of a conversation with the university.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was pretty much just like, you should pretty much be quiet and do your work.
[SPEAKER_00]: And when that didn't work, they eventually just said, you know, please send in your badge and keys.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they said, mail them in.
[SPEAKER_00]: They didn't say bring them in.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's a long story to tell in a very short period of time, because again, it was like most of 2020, where I was still going into the university and we were all still engaged in this, trying to understand what was happening in New York City and where these numbers were coming from.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so it took me a long, long time to awaken.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, years.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, remember, I made a journey from
[SPEAKER_00]: from wanting tenure to now sort of understanding my whole role as a biologist very, very differently now.
[SPEAKER_00]: And in the end, I got involved in that whole thing just because I wanted to be a teacher.
[SPEAKER_00]: I apologize, I'm getting sort of off topic here, but it's hard to explain that experience now five years later, because it has been five years.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so many things happened in between.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's almost hard to remember some of the things that happened at the University of Pittsburgh.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so I want to get into the details of how you ended up at Children's Health Defense and working with Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'
[SPEAKER_01]: 's book, The Wuhan Lab, The Wuhan Cover-Up.
[SPEAKER_01]: But just give us the 10 second, what do you think happened with the pandemic?
[SPEAKER_01]: You say it wasn't a lab leak, so then what was it?
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I think the best way to summarize it would be that there was probably a biological phenomenon that they could take advantage of, and that whoever we're talking about here, the national security state, the global security state, whatever you want to call them, took advantage of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the main
[SPEAKER_00]: The main thing that I think isn't on anybody's radar is that the population pyramid of the West, which is the total population of the pyramid over all the age groups, there was actually a really big bump in the pyramid that was moving up from all of the big families that happened after World War II.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so people like Ted Turner have been arguing for 20 years that our countries might be bankrupt when these people stop paying taxes and start taking out of the system from healthcare.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the discussion of the last six months of someone's life on Medicare costing a half a million dollars is not a trivial discussion if the number of people on Medicare is expected to double or triple over a few years.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so in light of that,
[SPEAKER_00]: I can only describe it as a biological phenomenon.
[SPEAKER_00]: You could anticipate this rise in all-cause mortality and then point to it on a screen and say it was something else.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so all you really needed to do is have a good enough scientific cover-up story for that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's where, you know, the PCR and and death certificate fraud and financial incentives lead to a a sort of frenzy and where everybody doesn't understand what's going on, especially because there is this anticipated rise in all cause mortality that nobody's talking about, but everybody's experiencing.
[SPEAKER_01]: OK, so do you think that do you think viruses exist?
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that there are definitely biological signals at that size scale that are composed of RNA and DNA and coded in lipid nanoparticles, sorry, lipid bilayers.
[SPEAKER_00]: What I'm suggesting to you is that there are particles that look like viruses, but I would argue that there's not very much biological evidence for an RNA-based virus to be able to perpetuate itself forever.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'm just saying in general, do you think that viruses exist in general?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I mean, there are books and everything behind me because biologists have been making observations at this size scale for decades.
[SPEAKER_00]: And at this size scale, they can find DNA and RNA.
[SPEAKER_00]: And there are lots of them that agree that that's virology.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I would suggest that there are lots of biologists that know that it's much more complicated than that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But those signals are there.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think it's important to understand that as a academic biologist, I'm not coming to you or a former academic biologist, I'm not coming to you with a definitive set of specific answers, but I'm coming to you with the idea that the high fidelity and that's the real high specificity of all these diagnostics that they use to define the pandemic is a myth.
[SPEAKER_00]: Essentially, the problem is,
[SPEAKER_00]: I wonder if I can say this succinctly enough.
[SPEAKER_00]: The problem is, is that PCR as a reaction, as a methodology is used ubiquitously throughout academic science for so many different things.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's hard to, it would be hard to list them in an hour.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that ubiquitous use of PCR makes it very easy for all of these experts that have been trained to stay in their lane
[SPEAKER_00]: for all of these experts to assume that PCR is applied in a pandemic scenario in exactly the same high fidelity, you know, triple checked way that you would use it to make a nature paper to get tenure at a university.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's absolutely not true.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so I'm just trying to get to the core and then we'll get to the details, I guess.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because there's a lot of different camps when it comes to the COVID pandemic.
[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, there's the mainstream narrative where there was a deadly virus.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, these days, maybe most people think it came from a lab now.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe it's 50-50.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, certainly in the beginning, that was like,
[SPEAKER_01]: fringe conspiracy theorists think it came from a lab.
[SPEAKER_01]: Everybody else thought it came from a wet market in Wuhan and it was just a naturally occurring terrible event that happened and it was killing everybody.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then there was the camp that says, yes, there was this virus that spread all around and it was killing a lot of people, but it came from a lab and it was maybe accidentally, maybe it was a bioweapon.
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't know, but it was definitely not natural.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then there's the group that says there was no virus at all, that this didn't exist.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a very small group of people, but there are the people out there that say there was no virus.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then there are those that say there was a virus, you know, and the people that say there were no, yeah, so the people that say there was no virus, they don't think it came from, obviously, a bat, nor do they think it came from a lab.
[SPEAKER_01]: They just don't think there was a virus.
[SPEAKER_01]: then there's the group of people that think there was a virus.
[SPEAKER_01]: They don't know if it came from a bat or from a lab, and that doesn't really matter.
[SPEAKER_01]: They just think that it wasn't as deadly as the media made it out to be, that there was just mass panic that was caused, and it was weaponized to get us to comply with all of these mandates.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so they're not really that focused on
[SPEAKER_01]: where the virus came from or anything, they're more focused on the fact that it was used to usher in this whole era of mandates and whatnot.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm just trying, but it sounds, now what you kind of said, what it sounded to me, you're saying that there was this, and I've also heard this one, that there was just a, that every so often, a lot of people just die.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that's just how things work, that populations will have ebbs and flows on death rates.
[SPEAKER_01]: and that this happened to be a high death rate year that wasn't really out of the norm, but they kind of used hysteria to say, oh my gosh, all these people died, and it wasn't really out of the norm.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was just kind of a normal natural event that sweeps populations every so often.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I've heard that theory before.
[SPEAKER_01]: Haven't really dove into that one very much, but it sounds to me, because when you say natural phenomenon that occurred,
[SPEAKER_01]: But then you go into this, all these old people that are sucking tons of money out of the system.
[SPEAKER_01]: Are you saying that there was just a, it was just really a natural phenomenon without any, no one was attempting to kill off all these people to make sure they weren't a drain on the system?
[SPEAKER_01]: Or are you saying that maybe there was a concerted effort to kill off all these people and drain the system?
[SPEAKER_00]: I am saying that there was a concerted effort to... think of it like this, if you could go into a hospital and turn knobs that would make 5% more people die, but no one would notice it.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's something that I think our ruling class would think about doing.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you had a known rise in old people, and you know that old people die of pneumonia, and you decide to say, well, there's something called viral pneumonia and antibiotics don't work for it, and you stuck to that line for two years, you would get the exact graph of pneumonia deaths that we had over the pandemic.
[SPEAKER_00]: Pneumonia was under control for decades.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then for about almost an exact two year span, we lost control of pneumonia deaths.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then now we have them completely back under control.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the only explanation for that is we've gone back to using antibiotics for pneumonia and gone back to using antibiotics for urinary tract infections.
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't starve people anymore.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're not giving people ventilators to stop spread.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we're not using supplementary oxygen because somebody says their pulse ox is low.
[SPEAKER_00]: And all of these things are things that are capable of resulting in people dying.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if that's on the protocol, then doctors got away with it, that hospitals got away with it.
[SPEAKER_00]: They were kind of forced to do it.
[SPEAKER_00]: If they were told they were running out of ventilators, give your patient supplementary oxygen, your viewers are probably not aware.
[SPEAKER_00]: In fact, many of the doctors listening are probably not aware.
[SPEAKER_00]: that there is a pile of literature that goes back to 1980 or so that the use of pure oxygen causes a condition called ARDS, or acute respiratory distress syndrome.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it would be very curious to find out how many people in 2020, 21, and 22 in America met supplementary oxygen at the door of hospitals in America, because any of them that did were essentially murdered, even if
[SPEAKER_00]: They went a variety of different ways afterwards.
[SPEAKER_00]: Some got remdesivir, some got midazolam, some were starved, some didn't get antibiotics.
[SPEAKER_00]: It all starts with the acute respiratory distress syndrome that can be caused by the willy-nilly application of supplementary oxygen because my pulse ox is low after wearing a mask for four days.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this all happened in a hospital.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's no severe COVID at home.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, right.
[SPEAKER_01]: So are you saying you don't think that there was a...so you say that there's, you know, virus, maybe we don't fully understand that.
[SPEAKER_01]: What I'm kind of gathering is what you're saying about viruses in general is that, yeah, we call it viruses, but it's a more complex science that we don't really fully understand just yet.
[SPEAKER_01]: But there is some signal that something exists that they're just kind of labeling these viruses as a catch-all, perhaps, but... I would...
[SPEAKER_00]: Sorry to interrupt, but I got a thing here I think will make sense.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would challenge your viewers and yourself, if you want as a biology coach, to try and read in to bacterial phages, because bacteria communicate with one another with phages all the time.
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's nobody, no virus person, there's no skeptic anywhere in the world, none of them will say that there are no bacteriophages.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the vast majority of the RNA and DNA signals that are around us, that are in our microbiome, that are on our skin, are actually bacteriophages.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they can cause bacteria to change the proteins they express, to stop and start all kinds of different parts of their life cycle.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so it's very easy to imagine even a
[SPEAKER_00]: a slight adjustment to the model that everybody has in their head, where these signals are there, but they're not relevant to us.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're relevant to the bacteria around us.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if somebody knew, this is the key, Kim,
[SPEAKER_00]: Ms.
[SPEAKER_00]: Iverson, I apologize.
[SPEAKER_00]: The key to remember is that we have zero, not just a little bit, we have zero data from before 2020 that any of this signal existed.
[SPEAKER_00]: In other words, the same signal that the PCR pulled up in 2020 could have been there in the background for in perpetuity.
[SPEAKER_00]: and misconstrued as a very specific signal of a novel virus that Tony Fauci is sure that Peter Daszak isn't involved with.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it becomes this thing where by engaging in the mystery solving exercise, everybody already accepted the premise that there was a virus.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so you're saying, so just going back to this, so viruses, yeah, there's signals there for viruses in general.
[SPEAKER_01]: This virus, though, COVID, you're saying did not exist, that this particular one did not exist.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's very likely that it did not exist.
[SPEAKER_01]: How do you explain though, like when I got COVID, I could not, and I'd never experienced this before, the lack of sense of smell and taste.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I lost that for a week and I've never experienced that before in my life.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that was a common symptom of this one particular new illness that people were catching.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know this might not be the answer that will be fulfilling, but I would encourage you to not underestimate how powerful the force of suggestion was in 2020 and 2021, where there is something novel.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the fact of the matter is you're an American, I'm an American, and before the pandemic, we didn't get sick.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was our vacation days, so we went to work when we were sick.
[SPEAKER_00]: And when you go to work when you're sick and you lose your smell for two or three days, you don't care, you don't know because you're not even paying attention to it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I know because I've looked into the literature, this is a very common thing that happens with sinus infection or with respiratory infection.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just not something that a lot of people reported like they did in 20... Oh my goodness, it's so weird.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that whole declaration of it's so weird is on a background of a culture, especially in America that never admitted we were sick.
[SPEAKER_00]: We went to work when we were sick.
[SPEAKER_00]: I worked through sickness.
[SPEAKER_00]: I exercised through sickness.
[SPEAKER_00]: And now suddenly during COVID, we were told to isolate, shelter in place and pay a close attention to all the things you feel.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you never did that for your whole adult or even child, even in high school.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I do, I mean, I don't think I've ever lost my sense of taste and smell like I did with COVID.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, maybe there were times when I was ill that things didn't taste quite right, or maybe my sense of smell... Can I ask you, why do you call it COVID?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because you also tested positive for something, or you just think it was COVID?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I mean, I tested positive for COVID, I mean, but that's, but I was always skeptical of the test.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, I mean, that, you know, I know that the tests were, you know, a lot of people tested positive that weren't or negative that were, whatever, I guess, but I, but I, I did get sick, um, and I did lose my sense of taste and smell.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that was really bizarre.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it was a really bizarre experience.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, my wife had that happen to her as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know lots of people who have, um,
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I don't think we can discount it, but I will just repeat again that there's a long history of it in the literature.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I mean, I understand that it's possible.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I hear what you're saying, and so I think it's possible that there were previous times that I experienced it, but because no one was talking about it, I didn't notice it, really.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, it wasn't as... Well, maybe you're a pretty healthy person and only had a really hard flu, like, twice in your life.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's also very possible.
[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of us are that healthy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'm getting older, so I mean, things are bound to be worse than when I was young.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so now let's get to the book, the Wuhan cover-up, and working with Children's Health Defense and Robert F. Kennedy Jr., and what you researched, and as you were researching, how you came to this conclusion that this whole thing just didn't even exist.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was just, I guess, mass formation, mass psychosis.
[SPEAKER_01]: We all just were like, whoa, we're all sick.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're all getting sick.
[SPEAKER_01]: Something's going around, and it's killing all of us.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was more of a... Remember, as united they were about Build Back Better, they were united about the novel virus.
[SPEAKER_00]: They were united about COVID.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that spell cannot be underestimated.
[SPEAKER_00]: It can't.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you're right.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, in the winter and during the year, we all get sick.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I get sick.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was just recently sick and I never tested for COVID or thought it was COVID.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now we're in a different frame five years later where people get sick and nobody's running away from sick people anymore.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we're not sheltering in place and doing all of that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, yeah, maybe if they would have said, oh, there's a new virus now and you're all getting it, maybe we'd all be
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I get sick, then, you know, recently my niece was sick, my nephew was sick, my sister was sick, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like a lot of people around me have been sick over the last month, but I'm not calling it a name, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just, oh, you're sick.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if we call it a name, if we label it, I understand how that would then, you know, suddenly everyone's like, everybody's getting this one thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: When in reality, people are getting sick around us all the time.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we just call it, oh, you're sick.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I see.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: So how did you get contacted to help with the research for the Wuhan coverup?
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure how I should explain it other than to say that in April of 2022, I got a phone call from a guy's voice who I recognized, and he said that he had seen my podcast and that he wanted to help somehow.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that in about a month turned into being a consultant for what now turned out to be the Wuhan coverup book.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I worked for him for about a year and two months or so.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then after the book was published, CHD hired me as a staff scientist until the end of 23.
[SPEAKER_01]: And why were you fired?
[SPEAKER_00]: I was told that it was because, so just preview the fact that I did this podcast or whatever you call broadcasting nowadays.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've been doing it consistently since I lost my job at the University of Pittsburgh and it's evolved into something where I do a little journal club and whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that's what Robert F. Kennedy Jr., that's supposedly how he found me.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I continued to do that while I was working on the book and I continued to do it while I was working at CHD.
[SPEAKER_00]: But Children's Health Defense ended up having a couple problems with some of the things that I said on my stream and I was reprimanded a couple times, but I just kept going because I was defending CHD, I thought, and arguing for what I thought needed to be argued for.
[SPEAKER_00]: And when I said some critical words of a gentleman by the name of Robert Malone, then Mary Holland and Brian Hooker let me go.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because you criticized Dr. Robert Malone?
[SPEAKER_01]: Correct.
[SPEAKER_01]: What did you say about him?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, actually, he had tweeted on that day or the day before that Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
[SPEAKER_00]: was not a very good candidate for president because he wasn't a good manager.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he said that his exhibit A or exhibit one was CHD.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I went on my stream and said, that's kind of odd because I just saw
[SPEAKER_00]: Robert Malone at, I mean, I know Robert Malone, they publish his books.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, that seems weird.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think he's even friends with Meryl Ness.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I said, it's kind of strange that he would take such a dig at Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that was the five minutes that they said was unacceptable.
[SPEAKER_00]: They published his books, so it's kind of, you know, I'm not selling his books if I critique him, I guess.
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess, but he's not selling Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'
[SPEAKER_01]: 's books if he's critiquing him.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I mean, he's on the back of the book, so I guess he's selling Robert's book.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: So they got rid of you because of your criticism of Dr. Robert Malone.
[SPEAKER_01]: It wasn't for your stance on COVID.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, that's correct.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I mean, my stance on COVID was actually something that they tried pretty hard to ignore.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was given other tasks.
[SPEAKER_00]: Having the podcast that I did, when I started working for CHD, I was doing everything offline and working on other things that, in retrospect, I don't think were very good uses of my skill set.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's say it like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so as you were researching, you started to bring up some objections to the premise that this came from a lab.
[SPEAKER_01]: But that's the book, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: The book is the Wuhan cover-up, so it's about how the virus actually came from a lab.
[SPEAKER_01]: What was it about the research?
[SPEAKER_01]: So kind of get us to this point now.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we're all thinking it's a lab leak.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_00]: Including me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Including you at this point.
[SPEAKER_01]: How did you get to the point where you're like, wait a minute, this wasn't actually a lab leak, that this whole thing just wasn't a thing?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, share with us the science, I guess.
[SPEAKER_00]: So for three years I've been chewing on the idea that this couldn't be true.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was just honestly a gut feeling for a long time as a biologist, I didn't understand how this could be true.
[SPEAKER_00]: And a certain light went on when Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
[SPEAKER_00]: asked me to read up on and explain to him, if I could, what infectious clones were.
[SPEAKER_00]: Inflectious clones is a term to describe the synthetic DNA or RNA that is used in virology experiments.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let me just explain very briefly that there are thousands of virology papers, many of which say that they collect virus in the wild and that they find it and sequence it.
[SPEAKER_00]: But you will find a very consistent theme, especially in RNA virology, where what actually happens in every paper is that they say they find a sequence.
[SPEAKER_00]: but the sequence cannot be grown.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they need to use a synthetic DNA molecule copy of it to make lots and lots and lots and lots of RNA, and then they start from there and call that virology.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now that explanation probably will only make sense to more sophisticated biologists, but let me suffice it to say that
[SPEAKER_00]: This question that was actually in the back of my head for a long time, asked to me by Robert F. Kennedy Jr., led me to write him an email and say, I think you actually spurred me to figure it out.
[SPEAKER_00]: RNA can't go around the world by itself.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the reason why a zoonosis, if it happens, it happens to the people that go into the Batcave.
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't happen to all the people on the train and all the people everywhere and everywhere because
[SPEAKER_00]: If I flip it around for you as a person who's not a specialist biologist, everything that you have come to be told in biology class about evolution is based on DNA.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the magic of DNA is that it's double-stranded, which makes it chemically super stable, and it makes it a double copy of itself, that if there's an error, it doesn't go together and so it can be repaired.
[SPEAKER_00]: This magic little cartoon is the basis for all biology departments everywhere around, and it's the basis for the Human Genome Project and everything.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now the interesting thing about RNA virology and Peter Daszak's work and Ralph Baric's work is that the whole premise that their viruses are dangerous to the whole world is that they can do something that even DNA can't do.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you put DNA in a mud puddle, and it doesn't matter what sequence you put in that mud puddle, you will never find it all over the world in five years.
[SPEAKER_00]: But for some reason, they think that they can tell us a story where RNA, a single-stranded molecule, not a double-stranded one, not one that's chemically stable, not one that can proofread itself, but a single-stranded RNA molecule in a mud puddle can also do that if it's got the right furin cleavage site in it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that is the premise of an RNA pandemic.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it is not supported by the entire biological literature, which can only function if they take that RNA sequence and make a synthetic version of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: They can't grow them.
[SPEAKER_00]: And all of this idea that they're finding viruses, even Shang-Chi Lee and Ralph Baric, when they find a coronavirus, what they are claiming to find is an incomplete sequence
[SPEAKER_00]: that they then reconstruct a synthetic version of and make as much as they want to such that like this much quantity, three milliliters of that DNA in water would be enough to put the sequence of a coronavirus anywhere you wanted to and it would be the hottest PCR signal you could possibly imagine because it's pure.
[SPEAKER_00]: I could put a drop of this on your desk and it would be hot positive for the entire Wuhan sequence for months
[SPEAKER_00]: And it would represent a perfect signal in any aerosol, a perfect signal in any inhalant.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so the idea is that this, if I keep talking, the idea is that in every pharmaceutical company in the world, they have been making DNA, converting it to protein and calling it a biologic.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the exact same process that they would make the RNA for the shot.
[SPEAKER_00]: They would make a DNA, they would grow it in a bacterial culture, they would lyse the bacteria and clean that all out, and give you the RNA that they make from that DNA.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's how they did it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that, that's not a new process, that's actually a very old process, and applying
[SPEAKER_00]: mRNA to a person is not new.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's something that we've been doing to animals like my mice for 20 years already.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they didn't change hardly a thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they told us it was an investigational vaccine.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the bait and switch is what that is.
[SPEAKER_00]: They got us to argue for three years about the details of virology.
[SPEAKER_00]: And is it true or not?
[SPEAKER_00]: Or are these no virus people, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And all along they were just planning to sneak in this thing where, oh yeah, by the way, we're going to start transfecting you and you're going to accept it as a vaccine, like an even better vaccine than the old vaccines.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that whole script was waiting.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's something that you can only see in five years looking backwards.
[SPEAKER_00]: That whole script was waiting.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's why everything lines up like this from the moment that they were arguing about it until right now when people on the left are also going, oh, wait a minute, maybe a lab leak's not so crazy after all.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the magic of a national security operation.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not out of control.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is completely under control and a limited spectrum of debate is how we're controlled.
[SPEAKER_01]: Has there ever been an RNA pandemic prior to this?
[SPEAKER_01]: Or what illnesses would be RNA?
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think so, no.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think what another little piece of the puzzle that I could add, and maybe we'll only sink in later, is that there's a whole field of biology that studies the signaling between tissues.
[SPEAKER_00]: inside of your body.
[SPEAKER_00]: And tissues inside of your body signal with each other using small little particles that are indistinguishable under a microscope from viruses that carry RNA in them.
[SPEAKER_00]: and they send signals to other cells.
[SPEAKER_00]: One example in the brain is a protein called ARC.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's RNA is sent from neuron to neuron so that neurons that are activated are signaling to neurons around them to enable them to also respond.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that is actually just a virus in your brain, but it's an endogenous one.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that is also part of this background that they claim to be able to use a PCR test and tell you whether you have COVID or not.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it is an extraordinary claim.
[SPEAKER_00]: As a biologist, the more that this sinks into my head, the more is this is the central thing that we need to teach our children is that.
[SPEAKER_00]: that there is a background noise, if you think of it like a radio signal, the noise is so loud.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they're claiming that with very crappy radio technology, we can pull out signals from there and listen to how good they are.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that is just absurd.
[SPEAKER_00]: They really pulled a fast one on us.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the terrible part about this is Kim, is that PCR has now become,
[SPEAKER_00]: essentially a medical diagnostic standard.
[SPEAKER_00]: They can use PCR to essentially find anything, and that is a very dangerous place for us to be, because the FDA should have probably regulated each one of those things as a separate medical device, and decided whether or not it showed the signal that it showed.
[SPEAKER_00]: But instead, because we're in a state of emergency, and now we have the FDA employees all quitting, there's no
[SPEAKER_00]: We're not going to look back and try to figure out how badly we were fooled in 2020 unless we force them to.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so trying to understand... I'm coming out off topic and I apologize.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I'm not a scientist, but I try to understand as best as I can.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, COVID-19, which was what they called SARS-CoV-2 virus, what you're saying is this is a single-stranded RNA virus.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that would be unstable because it would easily break down.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you were saying, the mud puddle, it shouldn't be able to just spread all around the world like this.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just not stable enough to do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: It would maybe spread a little, but then it would no longer spread because it would break down or it would more for what?
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a thousand different reasons.
[SPEAKER_00]: The one being that there are RNAses, there are enzymes to degrade RNA on your skin, in your sweat, because we don't like RNA to be around.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the reason why everybody that works in an academic biology lab has to wear gloves all the time, and why they wipe the conners down with alcohol is to get rid of those enzymes that are there to degrade RNA all the time.
[SPEAKER_00]: RNA also, remember, if this is going to work, what has to happen?
[SPEAKER_00]: That RNA molecule with all the magic insertions and urine cleavage site or whatever other nonsense they tell you has to copy itself without making any catastrophic errors for how many copies in order to get into everybody's lungs and all the white-tailed deer in North America.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we can't even estimate how many copies that is.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the idea
[SPEAKER_00]: that an RNA, and a DNA couldn't even do it, but an RNA molecule could be copied with such high fidelity that we could watch a base-by-base change in a phylogenetic tree over the course of 5 years with 18,000 sequences.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is the most ridiculous mythology, which it's just not based in reality, it's based in a theater,
[SPEAKER_00]: that is telling us a story about a high-fidelity molecular biology signal on the background that no one's ever bothered to estimate.
[SPEAKER_00]: For example, I'm just pulling things out of my head here.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can put a detector of airborne viruses on a mountain in Spain and they collect billions of viral particles every month in the air.
[SPEAKER_00]: These are particles with DNA and RNA.
[SPEAKER_00]: These are particles that could potentially be PCR positive signals if you used a non-specific PCR test, a PCR test that was just, you know, do you have a car in your garage?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's that specific.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I guess if you're sick and you have a car in your garage, you must have COVID.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's really what we're dealing with, because unlike cars that everybody knows is there, this background signal that's on your counter and in your lungs and in every sample, this background signal is inestimably complex.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not a, oh, there was something there, or there isn't anything there in 2019, and now it's everywhere in 2020, but that's the cornerstone premise of what they say happened.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's how they justify the entire story.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so I'm just looking this up.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just looking this up so that I could understand a little bit better, a list of RNA viruses that are out there.
[SPEAKER_01]: So some of them are like West Nile,
[SPEAKER_01]: Hepatitis A, Ebola, SARS, rabies apparently is RNA.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, and you're right in that these are not spread that easily.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, you have to have close contact in order to contract a lot of like, it's not like an airborne.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think a lot of these, I think that you have to have like close contact.
[SPEAKER_00]: or even bodily fluid, that kind of thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you're saying that because this is an RNA, this SARS-CoV-2 they claimed was an RNA virus, an RNA just would not be able to spread like this all around the world.
[SPEAKER_01]: It would have spread very differently and it would have been a lot easier to control like some of these others.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because SARS-CoV-2 did not spread wildly, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, and I would suggest to do a different thought experiment.
[SPEAKER_00]: Think about what would happen if they took the SARS-CoV-2 sequence.
[SPEAKER_00]: and they made an industrial quantity of it at any pharmaceutical company that could do it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they could have done it already in 2002 easily because this is really, you know, it's just standard.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's how you make a monoclonal antibody.
[SPEAKER_00]: You make a DNA, you grow it in a bacterial culture, then you lyse the culture, you take the DNA, you convert it to RNA, or you put it on a cell culture and it grows and it makes the monoclonal antibody.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, the reason why I'm saying that is because that's all that would be necessary for them to do any of the things that they wanted to do, the pure signal.
[SPEAKER_00]: If they had to drop that somewhere in China and then watch that signal spread around and maybe it makes people sick, maybe pure DNA and the exposure to it can make people, I mean, why not?
[SPEAKER_00]: That's one of the signals that would most likely activate our immune system.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they aerosolize this DNA signal, people get sick, they track it around the world, and now they've already seeded a narrative about how natural viruses can go around the world when they can't.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just a DNA signal and they tracked it for a while.
[SPEAKER_00]: And now what you need to imagine is that there's lots of ways that they could do it.
[SPEAKER_00]: They could do it themselves.
[SPEAKER_00]: They could have put this over the course of 10 years.
[SPEAKER_00]: They could have been putting this signal in the background and then, okay, now it's there and we're ready.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's start the show.
[SPEAKER_00]: they could have characterized the background.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they could have sent people like Nathan Wolf and Peter Daszak around the world to characterize that background and choose the easiest targets, the most consistent targets around the world.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then and then PCR for those targets and claim that, look, there's a virus going around.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes it's asymptomatic.
[SPEAKER_00]: Asymptomatic means that it's in the background.
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't mean that it's there and not making you sick.
[SPEAKER_00]: It means it's in the background.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that
[SPEAKER_00]: That's another bait and switch that happened like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Everybody knew asymptomatic makes perfect sense to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the doctors that said that's ridiculous, they were gone.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's another cornerstone of this myth that asymptomatic spread is something we have to be afraid of.
[SPEAKER_00]: And incidentally, they're now telling us, some people are talking about how measles actually spreads asymptomatically among people that aren't fully vaccinated or whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is again, they're trying to seed this narrative of a mythology that both sides will solve and argue and in the end they'll accept.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's the danger that we do to our kids.
[SPEAKER_00]: We can't teach this to our kids.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so do you think that they spread this around with the vaccine itself?
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the vaccine was mostly placebo.
[SPEAKER_00]: From all of the work that I've ever done in my life with transfection, I've used adenovirus to transfect, or I guess that would technically be transform mouse brains, but I've also used RNA to do the same thing, which is transfection.
[SPEAKER_00]: One of the reasons why I think I got fired from the University of Pittsburgh was because I was trying to explain to faculty members that
[SPEAKER_00]: the investigational vaccines that Bill Gates was bragging about were no different than the transfections we use on our animals.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're just saying that the lipid nanoparticle is proprietary, but it's just new, but it's the same crap.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're putting soap bubbles around RNA and they're putting them in our old people?
[SPEAKER_00]: We're not gonna let them do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the faculty at the University of Pittsburgh said, well, obviously they're not using the same thing we use on our mice or they wouldn't call it a vaccine.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I said, but then what are, what they're doing that?
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, that's the main message now for me, is that they would have never been able to get away with this without using placebo.
[SPEAKER_00]: Two reasons.
[SPEAKER_01]: But do you think that the placebo, it wasn't purely placebo, because we do have some studies like from the Cleveland Clinic,
[SPEAKER_01]: that show the more vaccinated you got, the more likely you were to get COVID.
[SPEAKER_00]: So put it in God's... No, I'm not saying that they were all placebo.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm saying that they had to have a very significant portion of them that were placebo for a number of reasons.
[SPEAKER_00]: One, because then they could meet any manufacturing quota that they wanted to.
[SPEAKER_00]: And in order to... Think about it this way.
[SPEAKER_00]: If they told you that you needed a mask, and it was really important for you to have a mask, but you couldn't get one,
[SPEAKER_00]: If they tell you that you need a shot, but you can't get one.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so the first and most important thing in the national security operation would be able to make sure that anybody that wanted to comply for sure could comply.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so in order to meet those manufacturing quotas, which nobody could possibly believe they were gonna get a billion doses of a new product done and ship to market without any problems, but they could easily do it if the national security state said, you know what?
[SPEAKER_00]: you're gonna hit two birds with one stone.
[SPEAKER_00]: Number one, the vast majority of people will never see any side effects if we roll out placebo.
[SPEAKER_00]: And number two, we can pay really close attention to the places we do roll out hot doses and make sure that we pay close attention to those people in Monarch.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it sounds to me like you're saying this is, it's not just that it's a, it's, so you don't think it was a Wuhan lab leak, but you think it was a massive lab leak, almost.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it sounds like it's way bigger than just, because you're saying that somehow they got this background RNA, I guess, all around, in order for a PCR to test it?
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's more likely that the PCR, I will still stick with this, that the PCR was not specific at most times.
[SPEAKER_00]: The PCR that they use now, the Illumina test that does like 17 different things or something, that could be very high fidelity for all I know.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I know from working on a couple court cases that the tests that were used in 2020 were atrocious.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you can go EUA by EUA, most of all of those companies are absolutely out of business now.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the reason why is because they were probably never testing for anything.
[SPEAKER_00]: Somehow or another,
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, like one of the cases that I worked on in California, I kid you not, was a former porn movie maker who decided to spend a half a million dollars on four university level sequencing machines and got a contract with BGI in Canada, or I'm sorry, in China for his PCR test and was allowed to test all of the municipal employees in a town in California for a whole year.
[SPEAKER_00]: and then went out of business and now got three houses and all gone.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this equipment's all gone.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the police and the firemen were all tested for a whole year and they paid top dollar for those tests.
[SPEAKER_00]: And those tests were a joke, like a joke.
[SPEAKER_00]: It took us months to even get the details of the test.
[SPEAKER_00]: And when we got the details of the test, it was just absurd.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, and that's one example of, I think, countless in America.
[SPEAKER_01]: So who would have been the person or the group or the entity that would have said, OK, we found we've we've got because if you're if you're a PCR test manufacturer, you're having to get something from somebody in order to manufacture this test.
[SPEAKER_01]: You have to get some science from somebody to to so that you can make a test that's going to be surprised.
[SPEAKER_00]: You'd be surprised, actually, how little there is.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I mean, is somebody somebody must have come around and said, OK, we've got this is what you're testing for.
[SPEAKER_01]: Use you know, this is here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Make a test for this to find this thing, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: No, actually, what you could have done was you could have gone online and chosen the end protein and you could have yourself said Kim chooses this sequence from amino acid 330 to amino acid 480.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's going to be our amplicon.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we're going to design primers to amplify that amplicon.
[SPEAKER_00]: You could have sent this in to the FDA with no actual result, and you would have probably gotten an EUA letter, which would have allowed you to go ahead with testing.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not a problem.
[SPEAKER_01]: But somewhere you had to find this amino acid sequence, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, where was that?
[SPEAKER_00]: Who came up with, here's- Remember, I think Shengli Shi published it in February.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's all everybody had.
[SPEAKER_00]: They just went from that.
[SPEAKER_00]: They could pick anything they wanted to.
[SPEAKER_00]: From that sequence.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is really that malfeasance.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's that bad.
[SPEAKER_00]: I myself didn't believe it as I was going through it as the expert in that case.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just could not fathom that this was it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, no way.
[SPEAKER_00]: You've got to be kidding me.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so there has to be that really started to sink in that there had to be something.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so this is all going on simultaneously.
[SPEAKER_00]: And at some point I said, you know what, this can't happen.
[SPEAKER_00]: And believe it or not, it's in this book.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm quoted six times in this book.
[SPEAKER_00]: The sixth quote in this book has said they wouldn't even need a virus to do this.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think it's important for a lot of your viewers to understand that
[SPEAKER_00]: Part of this trap is this argument about whether there's a virus or not.
[SPEAKER_00]: If there was an anticipated rise in all-cause mortality that they could sculpt using a little murder and then call it something else, that can explain everything that we see except for one thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: The one thing that's missing from that explanation is why did the life expectancy in America go down?
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's another thing that nobody will talk about, but actually it's a very simple explanation.
[SPEAKER_00]: The opioid crisis.
[SPEAKER_00]: The opioid crisis was terrible in 2020, 21, 22, 23.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that actually hit almost no old people.
[SPEAKER_00]: It hit everybody be under 40.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that decrease in life expectancy in America has been pointed to time and time again by people on the left and the right as evidence of the damage of COVID.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is the worst kind of malevolent lie.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I really suggest strongly that the math is very simple.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you remove the anticipated rise in all-cause mortality, and you remove the absolute murder by lack of antibiotics, you remove the murder by supplementary oxygen, and you pay attention to the opioid numbers, there is no virus.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's the answer.
[SPEAKER_00]: whether or not there's virology or or RNA can make people sick or anything like that is a separate discussion because There was a signal and there was murder and that has been lied about consistently for five years now and Was set up with all of this stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean the one way to explain it for me and maybe you're not aware of this but Peter Daszak and Andrew Wakefield were on the same paper in the 90s
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you know who these two men are?
[SPEAKER_01]: I know Dasik.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm trying to recall.
[SPEAKER_00]: Andrew Wakefield is the MMR anti-vax guy from the UK.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: They were on the same virology paper about measles together.
[SPEAKER_00]: One was the student of the other.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's not a coincidence that now we're supposed to believe that Peter Daszak is the arch villain and that Andrew Wakefield is one of the guys on a white horse.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is an extraordinary multi-decade play.
[SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of people will say, but Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
[SPEAKER_00]: wrote this book about Tony Fauci too, and he's skeptical of AIDS.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, there's a lot of gray area there too.
[SPEAKER_00]: There is a lot of narrative control there too.
[SPEAKER_00]: You might even look at HIV and AIDS as being a test run in the sense of, you know, most Americans didn't pay attention because it was a gay thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: And in reality now, a lot of the same tricks, and I know you've heard this before, a lot of the same tricks were basically done for COVID.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, some people always point to the almost,
[SPEAKER_00]: eerily ironic thing that happened when Tony Fauci was sitting on the couch and said Remdesivir has shown really great results.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was really creepy that sitting right next to him is the scarf lady, what's her name again?
[SPEAKER_00]: Shoot, darn it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, Deborah Birx.
[SPEAKER_00]: And she of course was sitting right next to him when he said that AZT was gonna rescue the HIV sufferers.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is a really,
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a tough pill to swallow as an American.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't have anything else.
[SPEAKER_00]: My mom's Filipino and my dad's a tall white guy from Wisconsin.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm an American, American, American.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I want my kids to inherit a country that I grew up in where homecoming mattered and high school football matters.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just feel like this train is really careening out of control because
[SPEAKER_00]: We've been riled up.
[SPEAKER_00]: The right in America has really been almost hijacked by this health freedom movement that I don't think is what it says it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm frightened by it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wanna maybe just say something very clearly here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Have you heard the bear story about Robert F. Kennedy?
[SPEAKER_00]: What in your feeling, what does that really tell you about him as a guy?
[SPEAKER_00]: That was when he was 55 years old.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let me understand the story.
[SPEAKER_01]: The story was that he was driving around and he saw a dead bear, and didn't he just pick up the dead bear?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and he also had a bicycle in his car, and he was with friends.
[SPEAKER_00]: They thought it would be funny if they put the bicycle in Central Park and the dead bear.
[SPEAKER_00]: What I'm trying to imply is that Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
[SPEAKER_00]: has never lied to me, but at some point during the working of this book,
[SPEAKER_00]: our relationship just kind of ended, not in a negative way, but just in a no contact kind of way.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it really had to do with, I did a podcast with him and...
[SPEAKER_00]: Meryl Nass and Robert Malone about the email that I sent when I said, wow, I really can explain why this didn't happen.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can explain how they tricked us.
[SPEAKER_00]: I did a podcast with them and I was really excited because actually that podcast was supposed to be an hour with me and Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
[SPEAKER_00]: and then two days or
[SPEAKER_00]: maybe it was even one day before the podcast happened, he told me he was going to have a few people on the show and I would only have a few minutes.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I found out that it was Robert Malone and Meryl Nass and Tess Laurie of the World Council for Health and Jessica Rose.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so they talked for most of the time and I got to explain it as fast as I could.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wasn't satisfied with that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then after that, it pretty much was over.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, at some point in time, I think
[SPEAKER_00]: Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
[SPEAKER_00]: understood what I was saying to him and he specifically said this wasn't the book for it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I got what I needed to say in the book.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think he sees this as kind of a historical document of what people said and what they claimed.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I have the feeling that...
[SPEAKER_00]: Robert F. Kennedy Jr., I think I said it on another interview, is kind of like the worst victim of a Truman show ever.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, ever since his father was killed, I'm sure that there have been people trying to make sure that he didn't cause any trouble and was useful to them and understood the potential that this guy would have if he turned out to be handsome and well-read and well-spoken.
[SPEAKER_00]: I suspect that one little guy like me in Pittsburgh is not enough to convince somebody with that depth of advisement.
[SPEAKER_00]: And certainly some of these people have been his advisors for years and years and years.
[SPEAKER_00]: So whatever I could explain to him could be easily dismissed, I think.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have a lot of hope.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just don't have a lot of hope that I'm going to get through to this administration, I don't think.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I do have very much hope that I can get through to high school kids and to young college kids and maybe even some doctors to understand that there was a concerted effort for many, many years to pull this off.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if you've ever seen the movie The Sting, but this was a very long con, I think.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so let me just, I'm going to, because it's hard to fully grasp, but I'm going to try to summarize as best as I can that you tell me.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, for dummies, I'm going to summarize for dummies.
[SPEAKER_01]: So this is not the most scientific, obviously.
[SPEAKER_01]: But so the thinking is, is that this was, they took advantage that there was a group or that took advantage of the fact that we were going to have a higher than normal death rate.
[SPEAKER_01]: They saw the writing on the wall, the patterns, we're going to have higher than normal death rate.
[SPEAKER_01]: They decided to then scare us all and say, oh, look, there's this terrible virus and you're all going to die.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so everybody needs to hunker down, shut down your businesses.
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of siphoning of the wealth went right to the top during this time when they were locking us down.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they never really found a virus
[SPEAKER_01]: they just claimed there was one, people were getting sick, because people naturally get sick, and then when people were getting sick, and they would show up to the hospital, they weren't getting the normal treatment they would get, and that's what killed them.
[SPEAKER_01]: Or they were being isolated at home, people weren't, you know, one thing that I, when I was working on the Hill, I did a radar, we called them, where it was, I think my number one radar, actually, I think it got a couple million views, and I was livid that
[SPEAKER_01]: Older people in particular, the people in their 70s and 80s and 90s, I'm sure, when they got sick, their family members, normally when your older family member is sick, you go and take care of them, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: You give them the chicken soup.
[SPEAKER_01]: You make sure that they get their Advil or their Tylenol to keep their temperature down.
[SPEAKER_01]: You make sure that they're still taking their normal meds.
[SPEAKER_01]: They probably have a lot of heart medication, diabetes medication.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, they've got a regular set of meds, but they can't get up out of bed.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you caretake for these people.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's like a pretty normal thing that families do for one another or care workers, you know, hospice care workers that come around would do this.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the thing that was infuriating was that during the pandemic, I had hospice workers say that they would show up to somebody's house and they would find food at the doorstep because the family members refused to go inside when their elderly family member who was like 75 or 80 years old got sick.
[SPEAKER_01]: that the young family members refused to go inside.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just, you know, when my dad got COVID,
[SPEAKER_01]: I flew to Boise from Los Angeles to take care of him and I walked in and he had a temperature, he was sick, he couldn't get up out of bed.
[SPEAKER_01]: And had I not shown up, he would have maybe died.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there was just from lack of hydration, lack of getting his normal medication that he normally takes for his heart or for all these different things, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because when you're sick, it's hard to get up out of bed.
[SPEAKER_01]: And when you're older and you've already got other ailments, it's even harder.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're like an infant.
[SPEAKER_01]: You need somebody to get your temperature down and get you enough fluids in your system.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that wasn't happening.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I do think a lot of people die just from neglect, just from sheer neglect.
[SPEAKER_00]: My father-in-law in the Netherlands died of a urinary tract infection.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's not acceptable.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was because they said they didn't have enough people on staff.
[SPEAKER_00]: But they also wouldn't let his wife in, even when, I mean, it's just, she vaccinated herself, my mother-in-law against kind of, she just did it because she had to in order to be in the hospital with Case.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they still wouldn't let her in.
[SPEAKER_00]: The stories are incredible.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so when the people were showing up to the hospital, what they normally would get is, you know, like a Z-Pak or something, you know, they would normally get something.
[SPEAKER_01]: And because they were doing PCR testing and said, oh, you have COVID, like I know several people that were sent, they normally when they go to the hospital, I have one of my family members goes and goes to the doctor a lot and would always get a Z-Pak.
[SPEAKER_01]: But this time when she went to the doctor and to the hospital with COVID, they sent her home and said, take some vitamins, I guess, and hope it goes away.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you know, you did what you could.
[SPEAKER_01]: You got vaccinated, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, let's just hope.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's that's the only thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, they would not give her anything else for COVID like what they would normally give if she showed up and said.
[SPEAKER_00]: Pneumonia is awful.
[SPEAKER_00]: Dying of pneumonia is awful.
[SPEAKER_00]: The pain in your lungs is awful.
[SPEAKER_00]: And people that have had pneumonia know what it feels like.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's fire in your lungs.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so this is inexcusable.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's absolutely inexcusable.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you're saying that people showed up, they did not get the normal treatment that they would for a variety of reasons.
[SPEAKER_01]: One of the worst ones.
[SPEAKER_00]: Remember, one of the worst ones, I'm sorry to interrupt you, one of the worst ones was this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Remember how everybody had to have a pulse oximeter?
[SPEAKER_00]: Actually, the FLCCC told you to go to the hospital if your pulse oximeter was below 96.
[SPEAKER_00]: Think about that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you get to the hospital and they don't really treat you.
[SPEAKER_01]: And also family members weren't doing... They gave you a supplementary oxygen.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, and then family... They gave you supplementary oxygen.
[SPEAKER_01]: That would maybe, okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you're saying that a lot of these deaths, and I could definitely, I mean, I definitely agree with this, that the deaths were from neglect or different experimental medication like remdesivir, you know, that they were giving people when they really should have just had a different treatment altogether.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so they created this mass hysteria.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then when people were hysterical and they went to the doctors because they got sick, they were not getting treated properly.
[SPEAKER_01]: Family members weren't caring for each other like they normally would.
[SPEAKER_01]: Lots of people died.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then more people died because of the lockdowns.
[SPEAKER_01]: Opioid crisis killed a lot of people.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because really, you're right, there wasn't extreme excess death.
[SPEAKER_01]: There was excess death.
[SPEAKER_01]: in 2021, but it wasn't extreme.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it wasn't like, wow, this virus came and just swept through the earth and killed a bunch of people.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're right in that it was just high enough that if you just didn't treat people when they showed up to the hospital, and if you just killed off the young people with depression and opioid overdose, then you would see that number.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that does correlate.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can definitely see that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you're saying that they basically just did mass hysteria, they used shitty tests that weren't real, and we know the PCR testing wasn't any good.
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, kids were able to fudge it with, like, orange juice and whatever in order to skip school, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: To show that they had improvement.
[SPEAKER_00]: And just to hear your listeners saying it already and cut them off at the pass, you know, that overcycling idea is to an academic biologist, that's ridiculous.
[SPEAKER_00]: But they perpetuated that narrative in the media because to a lay person, that sounds reasonable.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, you pushed it too far and then you got a signal that was false.
[SPEAKER_00]: Academic biologists know that if PCR is done right, that doesn't happen.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so they were very easily dismissing that story in the media.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, oh, that's ridiculous.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know how PCR works.
[SPEAKER_00]: That doesn't happen.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you saw that on Twitter with virologists.
[SPEAKER_00]: You saw it on Twitter with doctors.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that also
[SPEAKER_00]: I assure you was in the script.
[SPEAKER_00]: They knew that already.
[SPEAKER_00]: They knew that they were going to need to have that little sidestep where, Oh, it's overcycling.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so people can argue about that for a year and never realized that the whole test is a specific in the sense of it was there all along.
[SPEAKER_00]: No different, no different than if you, if you, if you could somehow make it so that nobody knew they had a car and you told them the cars were spreading everywhere.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll tell you some of the things that support your theory, and that is, first of all, event 201, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that was happening.
[SPEAKER_01]: They claim it came from the Wuhan lab in October or whatever, but there's evidence that there was this virus potentially in people's systems months prior to that, which like what you said, maybe this was kind of a background thing that's always kind of been there.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then they just sort of capitalized on that background thing that wasn't really, you know, it's just always kind of been there.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not that deadly, but it's the capitalizing on it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Can I stop you there?
[SPEAKER_00]: You said event 201 and I think that's a very astute observation and it's actually part of this Scooby-Doo mystery that we were supposed to solve.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think you will find it, as a journalist, absolutely fascinating to go one year before
[SPEAKER_00]: event 201 and go to Hong Kong and find out that there was a coronavirus meeting in Hong Kong where Shengxi Li, sorry, not Shengxi Li, I said the wrong person, Li Min Yan, do you know who that is?
[SPEAKER_00]: Li Min Yan was this virus whistleblower that Steve Bannon brought to the scene and toured the United States saying that it was a lab leak.
[SPEAKER_00]: Her name is Li Min Yan.
[SPEAKER_00]: Lee Min Yan actually presented at a coronavirus conference where Kissimmee, the person that's credited with the RNA from the... Oh, now I can't remember her name and it's really bothering me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know it, I have it right here.
[SPEAKER_00]: here, her name is Kizmekia Corbett.
[SPEAKER_00]: So Kizmekia Corbett, the one from the NIH who's on the Time Magazine with the two Nobel Prize winners and also Barney Graham from the Vaccine Center.
[SPEAKER_00]: She was presenting at a coronavirus conference next to Li Min Yan in the same seminar.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then a year later, event 201 happens where they talk about a pandemic.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the virology people on both sides of the narrative shared a stage the year before that.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's impossible for that to be random.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you've got, you know, like I mentioned, event 201, you have the fact that they've never been able to pinpoint exactly when or where this virus started.
[SPEAKER_01]: They also have not been able to pinpoint exactly how, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's also some supporting on this in that the lab leak theory in and of itself has been problematic for me because it's being used as a
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you know, it's a political weapon against China.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that's that's one of my biggest beefs with it is, you know, you've got people on the left that were like, oh, it came from a bat and it's just everybody just needs to hunker down and do whatever.
[SPEAKER_01]: But then people on the right were saying, no, this came from a lab and China did it.
[SPEAKER_01]: The China virus, China, China, China.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was being weaponized.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we know that we've we've got this thing with China.
[SPEAKER_01]: We want to mean mug China and go after China and and build up our military in the you know, in the Asia-Pacific area.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so then using something like this helps with that narrative, and that's one thing that's always been a red flag for me on the whole lab leak theory idea.
[SPEAKER_01]: And even though I have been somebody that was more thinking...
[SPEAKER_01]: which I never actually had a thought of whether it came from the lab or didn't come from the lab.
[SPEAKER_01]: My position always was, we don't know, so we should research everything.
[SPEAKER_01]: Why are we stopping at just, it came from a bat?
[SPEAKER_01]: Where's the bat?
[SPEAKER_01]: Where's the lady?
[SPEAKER_01]: Where's the soup?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, if you can't show me exactly, then you have to just investigate everything.
[SPEAKER_01]: Everything's up in the air.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's not just the lab in Wuhan.
[SPEAKER_01]: What if it's the lab in North Carolina?
[SPEAKER_01]: What if it's a lab somewhere else?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you gotta look everywhere.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can't just have this, oh no, it's this or this.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, it's all up in the air.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I don't have an idea of where it came from because I don't know and we don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it could come from anywhere or nowhere as you're suggesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: The only thing that just causes me pause is the fact that I did get sick from COVID.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I never got the vaccine.
[SPEAKER_01]: I never did any of that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was a big COVID skeptic of the whole thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I did get it, and I did lose my sense of taste and smell.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I did not get the vaccine or anything like that that would have infected me unnaturally.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe there's other ways that they could have done that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's the only thing that makes me say, I just think there maybe was something weird that they did spread around.
[SPEAKER_01]: how they spread that around, though, you know, I'm open to that one.
[SPEAKER_01]: If they would have done it through a variety of different means.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just don't know if I'm ready to say it was mass formation psychosis.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I mean, I don't think you can characterize a
[SPEAKER_00]: a militarily organized group of people on social media enacting a theater as mass psychosis.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's not what that is.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a population being victimized by a extremely well-oiled machine.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we think of social media as some kind of, we're supposed to think of it as the town square, but these are military programs.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're controlling what we see and not that dissimilar from a Truman show.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can think that you're interacting with the people on stage,
[SPEAKER_00]: you're not going to change their script.
[SPEAKER_00]: It feels really good on social media now, though, you know, you can tweet at them and get mad at them and use emojis and everything, but that's not the real world.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's made it much easier for them to create this illusion that you're maybe making progress or somebody's listening to you or there's a debate happening.
[SPEAKER_00]: And what that, to me, represents is a shift in power in the world, in the sense of
[SPEAKER_00]: I kind of think of it naively as American politics didn't matter to anybody but Americans 20 years ago.
[SPEAKER_00]: But now the show of American politics and the show of German politics can actually have influence on each other.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's not possible except for the magic of social media.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so this is putting that power in a different set of hands than it was 20 years ago.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I guess the only other thing that gives me a little pause, but there's, but which is that then, you know, it's not just Americans or like Bill Gates or these, it was everybody in the world was doing this to all of their populations.
[SPEAKER_01]: It wasn't just the United States.
[SPEAKER_01]: Russia did it.
[SPEAKER_00]: They all had the problem to manage.
[SPEAKER_00]: They all have this population pyramid problem that one of the ways they're solving it is with immigration.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you don't have your normal populations not making babies, then you can bring in other people who will make babies.
[SPEAKER_00]: They did that in the Netherlands in the 50s.
[SPEAKER_00]: They did it in the UK in the 80s.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're doing it now everywhere.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's how they're going to balance this population pyramid out.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's interesting, on my website I have the PDF available for download.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a McKinsey document from January 2025 that calls the population pyramids of the West, obelisks, because they're shaped like this.
[SPEAKER_00]: So in 50 years, the entire economy is essentially going to collapse.
[SPEAKER_00]: It can't not collapse because we're not going to have the tax base and the number of people that we used to have.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's just not going to work out.
[SPEAKER_00]: The math doesn't work out.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so what better way to use this than as a way of creating a mythology that could govern humans for generations?
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that seems like the best opportunity ever.
[SPEAKER_01]: China's got a China's got a big problem, too I mean the United States has the problem of the boomers getting old now and sucking up the resources and and they're no longer taxpayers China's got the same problem because they have the one China policy.
[SPEAKER_01]: So anybody who's my age is a one child And the older groups, you know, the boomer essentially generation for China is way larger than the next generation because the next generation there was only one kid and
[SPEAKER_01]: So for every two people, there's one person in China.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so they do have a major population issue with their aging population as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess all of the major countries, Russia, the United States, China certainly all have that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And of course, the West in general has that.
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't really see that issue in Africa, which interestingly, they didn't go along with any of this at all.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they didn't really have COVID, did they?
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, right.
[SPEAKER_01]: They didn't go along with it at all.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, that's very interesting, Jonathan.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is very, you know, look, I know a lot of my viewers are going to watch this and say, yeah, he's absolutely right.
[SPEAKER_01]: This was all just, it was all phony.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, they just pulled one on us.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think no matter what a person thinks about the origin, you know, where the virus came from, whether or not there was a virus, any of that, what we're all upset about is the fact that they use this to control us to the level that they did.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think that it adds, you know, if there really was nothing and they just.
[SPEAKER_01]: fear mongered us into this.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it is extra sinister.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's extra.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's, it's beyond.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's, it's a major crime against humanity.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was already a crime, but it becomes extraordinarily even, you know, exponentially a greater crime if they just made it up.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I'm getting goosebumps because I think you get it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like it really is that bad.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm,
[SPEAKER_00]: As an academic biologist, I wake up every day hoping that I'm gonna figure out I was wrong about this.
[SPEAKER_00]: And for five years, it just gets worse and worse.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I really think we got a lot of work to do, but I'm so happy that I got to talk to you about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would come back anytime for any amount of time necessary to answer any questions, online or offline.
[SPEAKER_00]: Seriously, I wanna help anybody that wants to understand this, understand it better.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I really appreciated this conversation.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's very fascinating.
[SPEAKER_01]: I went into this not knowing exactly what your idea, you know, what you thought happened during the pandemic.
[SPEAKER_01]: So now I'm clear on what you, you know, I'm definitely much clearer.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I know a lot of people watching this will email and they'll comment in my locals community and they'll say, this is, you know, regarding Kim, your skepticism on, you lost your sense of taste and smell.
[SPEAKER_01]: They will give me an answer to that.
[SPEAKER_01]: confident of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So this has just been really, really fascinating.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think more people look, we still do not know, we don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so we have to explore every avenue.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is an avenue we must explore.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because it was very bizarre.
[SPEAKER_01]: They were all in on it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Every single news organization you turned on had the death ticker on the screen.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, it was just the they were it was a concerted effort
[SPEAKER_01]: The pharmaceutical companies made fortunes, the surveillance state got what they wanted.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there was just a lot of groups, entities, powerful entities that benefited from this.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it makes sense that they would want to keep that narrative going and silence and censor any sort of idea that it was anything other than that, because they benefited so greatly.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think we all have to keep our minds very open.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they do continue to benefit.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're right.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if we don't realize that, you know, maybe it was just them completely pulling the wool over our eyes entirely, then, you know, now what they're going to do and what my fear is for the next time is they'll say, because this time they're like, well, OK, fine.
[SPEAKER_01]: We weren't able to really get them because it only infected old people, you know, not young people.
[SPEAKER_01]: But maybe the next one, they'll say, OK, this one, get your kids.
[SPEAKER_01]: This one goes after your children.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then they're really able to scare everybody because that certainly would.
[SPEAKER_01]: Jonathan, thank you so much.
[SPEAKER_01]: Where can people find your podcast and hear more about your ideas and you explain this in greater detail?
[SPEAKER_00]: I have a very goofy name that comes from my work as a biologist.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's Gigaohm.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's G-I-G-A-O-H-M.
[SPEAKER_00]: It means a million ohms, maximum resistance.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's from the recordings I used to make.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's Gigaohmbiological.com.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm on Twitch under that name, and I'm also on Twitter as JJCooey, all one word.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm around, I so much appreciate this, I can't tell you.
[SPEAKER_00]: I actually wanted to drop this in earlier, but when you said your radar, I actually spent about two days trying to remake those graphics for myself, and I got so frustrated trying to make them work that I just left it off, but you really, those shows really inspired me back then, like, oh, I gotta get this list of things coming up so people can know what I'm gonna talk about and will listen to the whole thing, it was really inspiring.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if that was your particular idea, but it's cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, it wasn't, but I'm glad it still inspired you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much for this conversation.
[SPEAKER_01]: I do have those links down below to follow you on X and also to your giga ohm biological.
[SPEAKER_01]: All of that is down there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Jonathan J. Cooey, thank you so much for being here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Really appreciate it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I thought that was a really interesting conversation.
[SPEAKER_01]: I am interested to hear from you what you thought of the conversation tonight and whether or not you think the COVID virus was actually a thing that circulated around.
[SPEAKER_01]: So many of you have messaged me saying that you want me to interview someone who doesn't believe in that viruses even exist.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm definitely interested in having that conversation.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you know of somebody who can have that conversation, an expert in that, I would love to hear from you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Just join my locals.
[SPEAKER_01]: And there you can message and give me some guest suggestions, or you can also tweet them at me on X, at Kim Iverson show is my X handle.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, it's time to get to some locals comments and questions.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you have a, I know many of you are watching on the live stream, but it's really hard for me to read that live chat.
[SPEAKER_01]: So what I do is if you join my locals community, which is a great way to support my work and my show,
[SPEAKER_01]: then if you post a comment under the pinned post that I have there, I will get to your questions and your comments live on the show.
[SPEAKER_01]: Not all of them all the time, because sometimes you guys write novels, but I'll do my best.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's go ahead and get started with some of the questions and comments.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hockey Hippie says, there is much being made of the patch on the IDF uniform, which is an outline of greater Israel.
[SPEAKER_01]: as imaged by those that put it there, as imagined by those that put it there.
[SPEAKER_01]: But given their influence their government has on this side of the pond, my feeling is that at the end of the day, greater Israel will be America.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Feels like we're already there, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it really does.
[SPEAKER_01]: It feels like with how many of them take the pilgrimage to Israel and they all go to the Wailing Wall and take their pictures and they all pledge their allegiance and clap, you know, just endlessly for Netanyahu when he comes to Congress, it really
[SPEAKER_01]: It's somehow along the way since the 80s, they were able to buy off our government and have an immense amount of influence.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it is just strengthened over the years.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it does kind of look like we're already there.
[SPEAKER_01]: It depends on what Trump does.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, if we end up in a war with Iran, then, you know, we're totally and completely bought off.
[SPEAKER_01]: If he stays measured like he did the first time he was in office, then maybe there's still hope.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what I can think of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Some other locals comments.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I'm going to put a fresh one.
[SPEAKER_01]: These comments, by the way, for those of you new to this, these are comments coming in from the last few days.
[SPEAKER_01]: So this isn't just tonight's show.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is many days worth of shows.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm going to make a fresh pinned post right after this show.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you have any comments from this show or questions, just random, any questions that you have, just go ahead and comment on that pinned post.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I said, I'll make a fresh one when we're done here tonight.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, Amelia, oh, sorry, this is Amel.
[SPEAKER_01]: So she had asked me if I was an ENFP or an ENTP, and I said both.
[SPEAKER_01]: And she says, that made me laugh.
[SPEAKER_01]: I respect the innovation, but it doesn't work like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can't be both, since ENTPs and ENFPs break things down differently.
[SPEAKER_01]: for the MBTI system.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but the thing, Amel, is I said both because when I test, I'm literally 50-50 on both of those.
[SPEAKER_01]: I end up exactly half of the F and half of the T. So I'm half thinking, half feeling.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's why you like the show.
[SPEAKER_01]: So don't tell me I can't be both.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm both.
[SPEAKER_01]: Chris says,
[SPEAKER_01]: Chris 1507, interesting that during a DoD conference over the weekend, they said 99% of illegals on the terrorist watch list snuck across the border or were released in the community by Biden.
[SPEAKER_01]: This has brought 50,000 to 100,000 murderous terrorists to our door.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think previously I thought there could be a terrorist army of 200,000 within the U.S.
[SPEAKER_01]: People scoffed at me on this, but I still think this number is still realistic.
[SPEAKER_01]: Has this changed your opinion that drugs and not terrorists are the greatest threat to the United States?
[SPEAKER_01]: I 1000% think that drugs are a much bigger threat to the United States than terrorists from the Middle East.
[SPEAKER_01]: The drugs are the issue.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what's killing our kids.
[SPEAKER_01]: The drugs are what is causing a massive homelessness crisis and psychological crisis in this country.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not worried when I go outside in Los Angeles of a terrorist from the Middle East.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm worried about the druggies that I'm going to come across who might gouge my eyes out at a CVS or something.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that's what I'm worried about.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think realistically, most Americans are more concerned about the drugs than we are about
[SPEAKER_01]: terrorists.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the terrorist thing is just a military talking point because they want to continue the forever wars in the Middle East.
[SPEAKER_01]: Funny enough, if we stopped the wars and if we got out of the Middle East, then the terrorism against the United States would also stop.
[SPEAKER_01]: People wouldn't want to commit terrorist crimes against us if we're out of their homeland.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what... We would do the same thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I guarantee you, we would all be committing acts of terror if we were invaded by China or Russia or if the Middle Easterners came here and they literally took over our country and they were bombing us and raiding us and all of these things.
[SPEAKER_01]: We would be...
[SPEAKER_01]: committing acts of terror.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think there's very many Americans who would just sit idly by and take it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if we just stop that behavior in the Middle East and if we just get out and focus on our own, then we won't have the threat of these terrorists coming in.
[SPEAKER_01]: But we still have the threat of the drugs and the cartels and all of that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I'm not going to trust, by the way, Chris, a Department of Defense conference.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, oh, the Department of Defense, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, consider the source when they're saying, oh, 99% of the illegals on the terrorist watch list snuck in.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, my gosh.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, yeah, the Department of Defense.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's see here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let me get to some more questions.
[SPEAKER_01]: Venticus Prime says, Kim, it seems fentanyl is in everything in the same way high fructose corn syrup is in everything.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sounds like it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Had it not been for everyone pointing it out over the past few years, would you be aware of all of the high fructose corn syrup in everything?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I said before, between the food, medicine, air, water, nothing's natural anymore, and it is all killing you.
[SPEAKER_01]: It makes sense that the drugs would also contain cheap crap to save money for the cartels, and it's not like they got nutrition labels on them.
[SPEAKER_01]: Of course, that's beside what is also probably a gateway tactic.
[SPEAKER_01]: Next thing
[SPEAKER_01]: To wonder is how much the cartels are invested in big pharma.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't know that high fructose corn syrup was in everything without it being pointed out.
[SPEAKER_01]: Of course, if you're a label reader, then you would know.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you're right.
[SPEAKER_01]: There are no labels on the drugs that people are getting the fentanyl snuck into.
[SPEAKER_01]: So.
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, if you have a comment or a question, you could post it under the pinned post in my Locals community.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a great way to support the show and also to interact at the end of the night show.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, let's see.
[SPEAKER_01]: Who else do we have here?
[SPEAKER_01]: Some of you guys are writing really, really long comments.
[SPEAKER_01]: Guys, I can't get to these tonight because we're running out of time.
[SPEAKER_01]: RL2235, RL2335 says, Kim, I was blown away by what Caleb Maupin said about Joe McCarthy.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so true that nothing is what it seems.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe those old time conservatives were onto something.
[SPEAKER_01]: I do remember even growing up as a liberal kind of agreeing with Pat Buchanan when he was on the McLaughlin group back in the day.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, that's it, guys.
[SPEAKER_01]: Some of these are just really long, so do me a favor.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to make a fresh post on Locals and keep the comments and questions to one paragraph.
[SPEAKER_01]: That would be helpful.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, guys, that is it for tonight's show.
[SPEAKER_01]: We do need to move on.
[SPEAKER_01]: We've got a great other, you know, lots of other great shows that are that are live streaming right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm going to let you guys get to that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we will be back again tomorrow with another great show 2pm Pacific, 5pm Eastern.
[SPEAKER_01]: Join my locals community, ask your comments and your questions.
[SPEAKER_01]: We will see you tomorrow.
[SPEAKER_01]: Have a great night.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much for being here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Bye bye.