WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:19.680 And all the time it was Wiggles who made that black knight come to life. 00:19.680 --> 00:21.480 And there was no legend. 00:21.480 --> 00:22.880 Positively not. 00:22.880 --> 00:27.680 Wiggles just used the story to cover up my mysterious disappearance. 00:27.760 --> 00:32.360 Somehow he managed to get into the armour down at the train station. 00:32.360 --> 00:43.900 And like on the way to the museum he made you disappear. 00:43.900 --> 00:45.900 Oh Cheers! 00:50.900 --> 00:52.200 Scoobyoooo 01:13.900 --> 01:22.460 Good afternoon ladies and gentlemen, this is GIGO and Biological High Resistance Low 01:22.460 --> 01:25.660 Noise Information Brief brought to you by a biologist. 01:25.660 --> 01:30.580 It's the 17th of September, 2023. 01:30.580 --> 01:35.740 I have been with you fighting this limited debate spectrum that we've been trapped in, 01:35.740 --> 01:40.380 this Scooby-Doo mystery we've been tricked into solving. 01:41.340 --> 01:47.660 Today I wanted to take the chance to introduce you indirectly to someone who has been 01:48.620 --> 01:55.340 a friend behind the scenes, someone who's been helping me think about this a lot over the last 01:55.340 --> 02:03.340 couple years. And so it's about time that I guess just introduced this friend to you. 02:03.340 --> 02:13.340 At least that was my plan today and so as I switch over, welcome to the show. 02:13.340 --> 02:17.580 This is GIGO and Biological. My name is Jonathan Cooey. I'm the biologist bringing you this 02:17.580 --> 02:25.340 high resistance low noise information brief. On September 23rd, I have invited a friend 02:25.340 --> 02:32.460 to join us who I'm just calling a regular guy and I'm going to let him introduce himself 02:32.460 --> 02:40.540 to you. But the gist of this is that you can't possibly believe that it's just me and a pile 02:40.540 --> 02:47.420 of books and that's the fight. There are lots of people behind the scenes that I'm talking to 02:47.420 --> 02:56.300 every day and exchanging thoughts with and bouncing my ideas off of. This is not some kind of 02:56.700 --> 03:03.420 broadcast from the back of a garage with drawings on the back of napkins and stuff like that. 03:04.300 --> 03:11.260 I have a network of people that has through the last couple years kind of kept me in check 03:11.820 --> 03:17.580 and made sure that I'm not going completely off the deep end either with my ego or with 03:18.380 --> 03:23.420 any of the elaborate possibilities of the future that have been put in front of us. 03:24.380 --> 03:31.580 So let me see if what else did I have to put in here yet. I guess I just want to say 03:32.140 --> 03:38.380 we're trying very hard not to take the bait on social media, not to take the bait on television. 03:39.260 --> 03:46.940 Yesterday I covered another bunch of video and discussion about what's going on and trying to 03:47.020 --> 03:55.500 figure out what's going on with regard to this whole clone and swarm and infectious cycle thing. 03:56.220 --> 04:03.340 And I continue to add to this picture of who has changed our minds about things and who has kept 04:03.340 --> 04:10.220 us in these paths of narrative that have not allowed us to escape, not allowed us to realize 04:10.860 --> 04:17.500 that by changing our minds about these things these huge changes in our societal behavior 04:17.500 --> 04:23.820 resulted in hundreds of thousands of people being hurt or killed and that's the biology that we're 04:23.820 --> 04:31.260 trying to you know roll backwards a little bit. And so it is this controlled debate that we 04:31.260 --> 04:36.620 find ourselves in and it's this idea that there are people out there who are really trying to 04:37.580 --> 04:44.860 to break us free. And I think that's also part of this illusion that we don't need to solve the 04:44.860 --> 04:50.380 mystery because people like Robert Malone are on it and they are pushing the right buttons, 04:50.380 --> 04:56.380 they are calling the right people to account and so we can relax and just watch the Scooby-Doo 04:56.380 --> 05:02.620 episode unfold in front of us as the people who are responsible for the lab leak pandemic 05:02.620 --> 05:10.460 are brought to justice. So one of the things hey look at that there's an extra guy here 05:10.460 --> 05:15.420 not only do I see regular guy but I see a guy by the name of Mark Koolak who's actually also a 05:15.420 --> 05:23.740 regular guy well this is this is just really special. So let me switch over. Do you guys want 05:23.740 --> 05:32.140 to do an audio check for me? Check one two? Sure this is regular guy check one. Hey regular 05:32.140 --> 05:40.380 guys checking in. How are you there Mr. Koolak? Checking in checking in one two three four. How 05:40.380 --> 05:45.900 are you guys? I'm really good regular guy please meet my friend Mark Koolak for the first time live 05:45.900 --> 05:51.580 on TV. Thank you very much for joining me. Do you want to just take it away and give a little 05:51.580 --> 05:58.700 introduction as to how we met and what you're doing here so Mark also knows? Sure so this goes 05:58.700 --> 06:07.420 back a few years as JC said and to give you some background I'm in addition to being a regular 06:07.420 --> 06:18.300 guy I'm a parent and around the summer 2021 I started to become concerned about some of the 06:18.380 --> 06:25.740 information that was being put forth to the FDA. There's a website called regulations.gov that 06:25.740 --> 06:33.900 anyone can go to and sign up create an account and you're supposed to be able to put comments 06:33.900 --> 06:41.900 on regulations.gov where you comment on pending policy changes rule rule changes that that 06:41.900 --> 06:49.420 different agencies are making. And I went to look and see what kind of information 06:49.420 --> 06:55.740 what kind of comments had been submitted with respect to COVID vaccines because I was skeptical 06:55.740 --> 07:05.900 at that point. I found one comment I found one submission by CHD that I thought was I thought 07:05.900 --> 07:13.500 I could do better. And so I went and dug around for information that I could use being a regular 07:13.500 --> 07:20.700 guy you know not being a specialist in this area and I found some material that looked good 07:21.820 --> 07:27.900 including some material by an individual named Jonathan Cooey. I didn't know anything about 07:27.900 --> 07:35.580 this person but I liked what I was reading and so what I wanted to do was submit some information 07:35.580 --> 07:41.660 to the FDA saying hey I'm a concerned citizen I have these concerns here are my concerns. 07:42.380 --> 07:46.620 You know please consider this before you go ahead and make the determination whether it 07:46.620 --> 07:54.300 prove this vaccine for children. And that is so of course in order to do that you know 07:54.940 --> 08:01.100 ethically and fairly I decided it was appropriate to reach out to the author of this paper and so 08:01.100 --> 08:08.060 I did that and I struck up a conversation with Mr. Cooey and when I told him what I wanted to do 08:09.980 --> 08:16.460 he was intrigued and that touched off a long conversation. 08:19.180 --> 08:24.140 So I'm going to jump right into things as I said I'm a regular guy now I did go to some schools 08:24.140 --> 08:30.620 and I do have a few degrees here and there but and I do have a job I'm not you know out here 08:31.420 --> 08:38.780 I'm not homeless. So anyway I'm going to jump right into things and kind of just take us 08:38.780 --> 08:43.020 right off the diving board here because I don't know a better way to introduce what I don't 08:43.020 --> 08:48.140 know what it is I want to talk about today. So just a moment here let me get this going. 08:51.020 --> 09:00.780 All right so what you see here is an excerpt from a Duke Law Journal article that was published 09:00.860 --> 09:09.420 in 1989. It's kind of an odd article because it isn't really an article it's just a transcript 09:09.420 --> 09:15.820 of someone's closing remarks at a conference. In fact it's not his closing remarks it's his 09:15.820 --> 09:23.980 rebuttal to all the attacks that he'd taken from his initial speech which was not published in 09:24.540 --> 09:30.060 Duke Law Journal. Duke Law Journal decided only to publish his rebuttal. So this is 1989. 09:30.860 --> 09:35.900 Now the person who's speaking here was a lawyer who worked for the Reagan administration 09:37.100 --> 09:44.140 and he is a leading expert in an area of law called administrative law. So again this is 1989. 09:44.940 --> 09:49.660 Now I've highlighted what I think are the relevant sections here. This is the most important things 09:49.660 --> 09:54.060 not whether the remand comes up the same way next time. Now a remand is a technical word 09:54.060 --> 10:01.500 or remand is one of I'll and then a decision is made and then it gets appealed. The appellate 10:01.500 --> 10:06.060 court can overturn the decision but it can also kick the case back to the lower court and it can 10:06.060 --> 10:11.980 say you go decide it. Again you know we're going to change the rules you know we're going to tweak 10:11.980 --> 10:16.700 this and that maybe don't allow that information and allow this other information in and just do 10:16.700 --> 10:21.180 a new trial. That's called a remand and in this case he's not talking about trials that happen 10:21.180 --> 10:26.060 at court. He's talking about hearings that happen before these administrative agencies like OSHA and 10:26.060 --> 10:32.300 EPA okay. So he's saying that you know sometimes a court decision will come along and I'll slap 10:32.300 --> 10:40.140 one of these agencies some random agency and the other agencies he's saying are going to take 10:40.220 --> 10:46.940 note of this. Now most people think that everybody lives in fear of going to court and he's saying 10:46.940 --> 10:52.700 that's not what's important. It's not whether whether it goes to court and what instruction 10:52.700 --> 10:58.460 you get from the court. It's the ripple effect on what the agency does every day afterwards. 10:59.340 --> 11:03.580 Now the next sentence again he's an oral remark says the decision will be political. The decision 11:03.580 --> 11:08.540 he's referring to is not a legal decision. The decision he's referring here to here is a decision 11:08.540 --> 11:17.340 by the agency OSHA EPA. Most of these cases will never go to court but their political character 11:17.340 --> 11:24.540 will be affected very dramatically by the existence of the previous case. A lot of federal regulatory 11:24.540 --> 11:30.300 policy is affected by this case and it has nothing to do with ex post litigation at all. Now they 11:30.300 --> 11:35.660 emphasize at all which means he must have emphasized it when he was speaking. Ex post is a lad in 11:35.660 --> 11:40.860 terms that just means after the fact. So he's saying a lot of federal regulatory policy 11:42.140 --> 11:47.660 is based on these ripple effects that follow from one big decision and what it is is it's a 11:47.660 --> 11:55.260 bunch of people that work at these agencies who suddenly face uncertainty and they have to make 11:55.260 --> 11:59.420 decisions in the face of that uncertainty and it's not that they're worried about going to court. 11:59.420 --> 12:04.380 Everybody thinks that this is all about suing, taking people to court but sometimes it's about 12:04.460 --> 12:11.180 little pinpricks that have ripple effects. That's what this person was saying in 1989. 12:11.980 --> 12:21.740 Now in 1989 this person was not famous. Within a decade this person was fairly famous 12:23.580 --> 12:29.020 and within 20 years I got to know this person fairly well and I learned a lot of things from 12:29.020 --> 12:34.380 the person who gave this speech but I'm not going to talk about that. I'm going to skip to 12:34.380 --> 12:52.380 something else. Give me a moment here. Okay. A lot of people are aware, actually not a lot of 12:52.380 --> 13:00.300 people are aware. A lot of people are unaware that there were a series of cases 13:01.420 --> 13:11.100 that were decided by the Supreme Court 2022. You may recall that around October 2021 13:11.980 --> 13:15.500 President Biden gave an announcement. He said we're going to have a big vaccine mandate. 13:16.140 --> 13:20.700 Every employer, more than 100 employees are going to have to test all their employees. 13:23.340 --> 13:28.060 And there are going to be penalties if you don't comply, bigger penalties if it's willful 13:28.060 --> 13:37.260 non-compliance. Okay. Now this was all premised on an emergency declaration that was made by the 13:37.260 --> 13:42.060 Secretary of Health and Human Services. In other words the President said Secretary of Health and 13:42.060 --> 13:48.460 Human Services took stock of the situation and said oh my god there's a pandemic and oh my god 13:48.460 --> 13:53.180 we need to do something about it. And oh my god we've got these fantastic vaccines right here. 13:54.860 --> 14:00.460 So you know emergency emergency emergency. And so then the President writes a 14:00.460 --> 14:05.580 deckler and an executive order. And now an executive order is something to support and 14:05.580 --> 14:10.460 understand by executive orders. They can't give orders to you and me. They give orders only to 14:10.460 --> 14:16.620 executive branch agencies. Okay. Otherwise it would be unconstitutional if an executive 14:16.620 --> 14:21.100 order told you that you had to go out and mow your lawn that doesn't work. But you can give an 14:21.100 --> 14:26.140 order to OSHA. And that's what the President did. He gave it to OSHA, this Occupational Safety and 14:26.140 --> 14:35.340 Health Agency. Now this case was issued in January 2022. So you can count the days. It probably wasn't 14:35.340 --> 14:41.420 90 days from the date that executive order was issued until the date this opinion was issued. 14:42.300 --> 14:48.220 That's pretty fast. Another interesting thing about this case is that it's fairly short. 14:48.220 --> 14:52.220 I've got a couple of documents combined here but there's a couple opinions but the combined page 14:52.220 --> 14:59.900 total is 30. The average Supreme Court opinion is probably over 50 upwards of 70 pages. Okay. 14:59.900 --> 15:06.060 So this is short. Now there's some other odd things here. And I've highlighted things that 15:06.060 --> 15:10.460 I think are noteworthy. It's issued per curium. That's a Latin term. I forget what it means. 15:10.460 --> 15:15.660 But it basically means that you don't know who wrote it. It's anonymous, which is abnormal. Usually 15:15.660 --> 15:19.740 when the Supreme Court issues an opinion, it's, you know, Alito telling you that, you know, 15:19.740 --> 15:27.580 rose overturned. Here they don't tell you who wrote it. And they don't tell you who voted for it. 15:27.580 --> 15:30.620 Can I ask you a question here, a regular guy? Yeah, sure. Go ahead. 15:30.620 --> 15:35.820 Whose decision is that to make? Is it their decision or one justices decision to make that decision? 15:36.460 --> 15:46.860 Well, that's, that depends. So there's a chief justice and a lot of people get confused about 15:46.860 --> 15:52.380 what he does. They think he gives you other justices orders. No. What he does is he assigns 15:52.380 --> 15:58.460 the majority opinion when he's in the majority. Okay. So if he voted with the minority here, 15:58.460 --> 16:03.740 he would have no control over what the majority opinion says because he didn't vote with the majority. 16:04.540 --> 16:08.940 But if he votes with the majority, then he gets to decide who writes the opinion. 16:10.380 --> 16:14.300 And he gets to decide things like whether it's going to be issued per curium. 16:16.780 --> 16:21.500 Now you can reverse engineer this decision by looking at the dissents. And if you count up the 16:21.500 --> 16:26.140 dissents in this one, I don't know if I included the dissents here. Yeah, you can see the dissents 16:26.220 --> 16:33.340 here, Breyer, Sotomayor, Kagan. Okay. So that tells you who was in the majority and the majority 16:33.340 --> 16:39.020 tells you that Roberts is in the majority. So Roberts would have had discretion to issue 16:39.020 --> 16:43.340 it per curium. He could have written the opinion himself. We don't know. There were, there are 16:43.340 --> 16:50.860 five other justices who could have written it. He didn't want you to know. Okay. All right. Now, 16:51.740 --> 16:57.980 a couple of things he points out here. I'm going to say he. I don't know. Maybe it was a 16:57.980 --> 17:01.980 she, maybe it was Barrett who wrote it, but I'm assuming it's a guy. Don't ask me why. 17:02.540 --> 17:08.780 OSHA has never before imposed such a mandate, nor is Congress. Indeed, although Congress is 17:08.780 --> 17:15.820 enacted significant legislation addressing COVID-19 pandemic, it has declined any measure to pass 17:15.820 --> 17:21.100 any measure similar to what OSHA has promulgated here. Now, this is pretty plain reasoning. 17:21.100 --> 17:26.780 We've never seen anything like this. This is pretty crazy. Congress has taken a run at this 17:26.780 --> 17:32.220 kind of stuff. They've never done anything like what this little agency OSHA is doing. 17:33.500 --> 17:39.180 Now, then they, they, I'll skip ahead. As its name suggests, OSHA has tasked with ensuring 17:39.180 --> 17:45.340 occupational safety. There's the O, right? It seems like a big no-da. Then they talk about 17:45.340 --> 17:50.380 the standards that OSHA can prescribe. The standards must be reasonably necessary or appropriate 17:51.100 --> 17:57.020 to provide safe or healthful employment. Okay. They emphasize employment there, sorry. 17:57.980 --> 18:02.460 So the act contains an exception for ordinary notice and comment procedures for emergency 18:02.460 --> 18:06.780 temporary standards. That's why I was not allowed to comment on these vaccine 18:07.980 --> 18:12.460 regulations that I originally wanted to comment on. My original reason for reaching out to 18:12.460 --> 18:16.780 JC was to see if I could steal some language to comment on a regulation 18:17.740 --> 18:22.460 only to find out that I wasn't able to. And it was because of this emergency declaration that 18:22.460 --> 18:27.580 allows an agency to pass, pass regulations without the opportunity for public input. 18:29.580 --> 18:32.940 All right. So there's a couple things the secretary has to do before he can 18:34.380 --> 18:39.420 do this. He has to show that employees are exposed to grave danger from substances or 18:39.420 --> 18:46.540 agents determined to be toxic or new hazards and that the emergency standard is necessary to 18:46.540 --> 18:52.380 protect employees from such danger. All right. Now there's a couple things that I think are 18:52.380 --> 19:00.140 worth noting in here. The first sentence of this paragraph, after a two month delay, the secretary 19:00.140 --> 19:07.340 of labor issued the promised emergency standard. Why would they take the time to point out that 19:07.420 --> 19:12.460 there was a two month delay? Well, because it tends to suggest that it wasn't really an emergency. 19:13.340 --> 19:19.340 Okay. Couple things they know, it draws no distinctions based on industry or risk of exposure 19:19.340 --> 19:26.780 to COVID-19. Unvaccinated employees who do not comply with the rule must be removed from the 19:26.780 --> 19:33.740 workplace. And employers who commit violations face hefty fines up to 13,000, 136,000 for a 19:33.740 --> 19:37.660 willful fine. So if you say, hell no, I'm not doing it. And I know I'm not doing it 19:38.380 --> 19:46.140 up to $136,000. And I don't know if that's per day or per employee or what, but that's pretty serious. 19:47.500 --> 19:56.300 All right. Now the court here, as you might imagine, says this mandate's no good. He says these people 19:56.300 --> 20:02.540 are likely to succeed on the he's talking about, you know, the likelihood that he's 20:02.940 --> 20:07.900 ruling on an injunction here, but that the fact is this opinion has the effect of killing the 20:08.620 --> 20:14.220 executive order. So the administrative agencies are creatures of statute. They accordingly possess 20:14.220 --> 20:19.660 only authority that Congress has provided. Okay. Congress created OSHA through law. There's an 20:19.660 --> 20:25.660 occupational safety and health act. And it tells OSHA what it can do. The executive branch has 20:25.660 --> 20:31.100 some authority, but it's constrained by law. We expect Congress to speak clearly when authorizing 20:31.100 --> 20:35.740 an agency to exercise powers of vast economic and political significance. 20:36.940 --> 20:41.820 The question is whether the act plainly authorizes the secretary's mandate. And it does not, 20:41.820 --> 20:47.660 the act empowers the secretary to set workplace safety standards, not broad public health measures. 20:49.500 --> 20:53.900 And then they point out that although COVID-19 is a risk that occurs in many workplaces, 20:53.900 --> 20:59.740 it's not an occupational hazard in most cases. It spreads at home schools during sporting events 20:59.740 --> 21:04.940 and everywhere. That kind of universal risk is no different from the day to day dangers we all face. 21:05.740 --> 21:11.740 Okay. It says that allowing OSHA to regulate all these hazards would significantly expand 21:11.740 --> 21:20.540 its regulatory authority without clear congressional authorization. Now, I think this portion that 21:20.540 --> 21:26.700 I've highlighted in red gives away some of the emotions that were going on behind the scenes here 21:26.700 --> 21:30.940 because they carve out an exception. They say that's not to say OSHA lacks authority to regulate 21:30.940 --> 21:36.220 occupation specific related, occupation specific related risks related to COVID-19. 21:37.660 --> 21:42.540 Where the virus poses a special danger because of particular features of an employee's job or 21:42.540 --> 21:48.860 workplace targeted regulations are permissible. For example, OSHA could regulate researchers 21:48.860 --> 21:56.380 who work with the COVID-19 virus. Okay. So they're saying go ahead, vaccinate Fauci. 21:57.660 --> 22:04.300 All right. It's so ordered. There we go. All right. Now that's what? Nine pages. All right. 22:05.820 --> 22:11.260 Go out and find another nine page Supreme Court opinion. Well, actually I'll help you out because 22:11.260 --> 22:14.460 there's one more that I'm going to show you right now. And it was issued the same day. 22:15.260 --> 22:29.340 This one is also about a vaccine mandate. Well, it's about, yeah. Vaccine mandate by Joe Biden. 22:29.340 --> 22:36.780 You can see January 13, 2022. Now this is a little different. You can see who's being sued here is 22:37.580 --> 22:45.820 the Health Human Services Secretary. And this vaccine mandate applies to health care professionals. 22:47.420 --> 22:52.620 Now this one isn't a direct command. Okay. OSHA was giving an order and just saying 22:52.620 --> 22:57.100 everybody get vaccinated or you got to pay a big fine. This one is a little different. 22:58.060 --> 23:03.580 In this one, the secretary announced that in order to receive Medicare and Medicaid funding, 23:04.380 --> 23:11.500 participating fund, the facilities must ensure that their staff are vaccinated against COVID-19. 23:11.500 --> 23:18.860 Okay. So it's not required that you vaccinate your staff. It's only required if you want to get 23:19.420 --> 23:25.340 some of that money. Okay. That Medicare and Medicaid. All right. If you don't want Medicare and 23:25.340 --> 23:31.100 Medicaid, do your own thing. Now, in the court, this is this is procuring him again. Okay, 23:31.100 --> 23:37.020 okay. Where are you? Congress authorized the secretary to promulgate as a condition of a 23:37.020 --> 23:41.740 facility's participation in Medicare such requirements as he finds necessary in the 23:41.740 --> 23:46.300 interest of the health and safety of individuals for furnished services in the institution. 23:47.100 --> 23:52.300 That's pretty broad discretion for a secretary. Any requirements he finds necessary. 23:53.100 --> 23:57.980 The secretary has established long lists of detailed conditions with which facilities must 23:58.060 --> 24:03.580 comply. Certain providers maintain and enforce an infection prevention and control program 24:03.580 --> 24:07.980 designed to help prevent the development and transmission of communicable diseases and infections. 24:09.580 --> 24:15.180 On November 5th, the secretary issued a final rule or interim final rule saying that, 24:18.380 --> 24:25.260 facilities have to vaccinate all their staff and a facility's failure to comply on terrible 24:25.260 --> 24:31.340 lists. May lead to monetary penalties, denial payment for new admissions and ultimately 24:31.340 --> 24:39.580 termination of participation in Medicare and Medicaid. Okay. Again, the secretary didn't use 24:39.580 --> 24:45.980 the typical notice and comment procedures. The good cause was that any further delay would endanger 24:45.980 --> 24:52.220 patient health and safety given the spread of the delta variant in the upcoming winter season. 24:52.220 --> 24:58.060 So apparently that was the basis for skipping this notice and comment which again is normal 24:59.260 --> 25:04.460 normal part of the procedure but was skipped here. All right. Now here they say first we agree 25:04.460 --> 25:07.740 with the government that the secretary's rule falls within the authorities. The Congress 25:07.740 --> 25:11.420 has conferred upon them. That's the exact opposite of what we read in the last opinion. 25:12.620 --> 25:17.980 Congress has authorized the secretary to impose conditions that the secretary finds necessary 25:17.980 --> 25:22.860 then they say COVID-19 is highly contagious, dangerous, especially for Medicare and Medicare 25:22.860 --> 25:27.100 patients, deadly disease. Notice we didn't see any of this other language in the other opinion. 25:27.100 --> 25:32.460 There was nothing in there about COVID being dangerous. They just said that the risk is the same 25:33.180 --> 25:39.660 in the workplace, right, versus the home or the bus. They didn't have any of this language in here. 25:40.460 --> 25:44.860 Secretaries determined that the COVID vaccine mandate will substantially reduce the likelihood 25:44.860 --> 25:49.100 that health care workers, so this looks like a bunch of BS that they didn't bother to recite 25:49.100 --> 25:55.420 in the other opinion, but they're reciting it here. Ensuring that providers take steps to avoid 25:55.420 --> 25:59.660 transmitting a dangerous virus to their patients is consistent with fundamental principal medical 25:59.660 --> 26:07.740 profession. First do no harm. Are you like that? All right. As noted above, these health care 26:07.740 --> 26:12.380 facilities want that Medicare money. They've always been obligated to satisfy a host of 26:12.380 --> 26:16.140 conditions that address the safe and effective provision of health care. So this is an old 26:16.940 --> 26:23.260 old rule. Moreover, the secretary routinely imposes conditions on participation that relate to 26:23.260 --> 26:29.020 qualifications and duties of health care workers, and the secretary's always justified these requirements 26:29.020 --> 26:32.940 by citing his authorities to protect patient health and safety. So that's always been the 26:32.940 --> 26:40.060 justification. When asked at oral argument whether the secretary could use the same statutory authority 26:40.060 --> 26:45.660 to require hospital employees to wear gloves, sterilize instruments, wash their hands in a 26:45.660 --> 26:50.540 certain way at certain intervals, Missouri answered yes. The secretary certainly has the authority 26:50.540 --> 26:55.420 and implement all kinds of infection control measures. Then they go on to say, of course, 26:55.420 --> 26:59.100 the vaccine mandate goes further than what the secretary has done in the past. 26:59.820 --> 27:04.300 Bodies never had to address an infection problem of this scale and scope before. 27:04.300 --> 27:11.660 In any case, there can be no doubt that addressing infection problems is what he does. 27:12.300 --> 27:16.860 Okay. Health care workers around the country are ordinarily required to be vaccinated for 27:16.860 --> 27:22.860 diseases such as hepatitis B and fluenza measles you can count them up. All this perhaps is why 27:22.860 --> 27:28.540 health care workers and public health organizations overwhelmingly support the secretary's rule. 27:28.540 --> 27:33.100 Now look at what they cite. The American Medical Association submitted an amicus 27:33.100 --> 27:37.740 purity brief, a friend of the court brief and sort of the American Public Health Association. 27:38.620 --> 27:49.180 Okay. And as they as they point out here, health care workers and public health organizations, 27:49.900 --> 27:54.700 these are the same class of people that are supposed to be complaining about this law. 27:55.580 --> 28:01.980 Okay. These people are these, you know, Louisiana and Missouri is saying these health care workers 28:02.780 --> 28:07.660 object and the court is saying, well, wait a minute, when we look at what the American Medical 28:07.660 --> 28:11.900 Association says and the American Public Health Association, boy, they sure seem to think that 28:11.900 --> 28:19.660 this is this vaccine mandate is necessary. So you can guess where this is going. 28:21.180 --> 28:27.740 That vaccine mandate got upheld. Okay. Now, if you look at the dissent, look at who dissented, 28:28.300 --> 28:35.580 Thomas, Alito, Gorsuch Barrett. Okay. So there's your four conservatives. So that tells you who is 28:35.580 --> 28:42.540 in the in the majority was all the liberals, plus John Roberts. So it looks kind of like maybe 28:42.540 --> 28:47.980 John Roberts assigned the opinion to himself and made it per curium. I don't know. But anyway, 28:48.540 --> 28:53.180 that's one way of looking at where things are. Now, the reason that I go into this, 28:53.180 --> 28:57.100 the reason that I'm taking you through all this is not because I'm trying to get people 28:57.100 --> 29:06.940 spun up on, you know, ancient history here. It's because there's a perception, I think, that 29:07.740 --> 29:16.140 the law is stacked in such a way that nobody can make heads or tails of any, nobody can make any 29:16.140 --> 29:21.580 progress. Okay. You'll hear lots of muttering in the news about various people claiming that 29:21.580 --> 29:25.260 they've got, you know, litigation pending that's going to do this and it's going to prove this and 29:25.500 --> 29:28.700 this and that. And, you know, it's been two, three years now. None of that's gone anywhere. 29:29.500 --> 29:34.700 Here are two lawsuits that went to Supreme Court in three months and got a vaccine mandate overturned. 29:35.260 --> 29:43.180 Okay. So there's something a little odd going on here. I'm going to call it the Avenatti effect. 29:43.180 --> 29:47.100 You remember this guy, Michael Avenatti, he was on the news a few years ago. Everybody took him 29:47.100 --> 29:53.740 seriously. Everybody thought this guy was legit. Some people spotted him within three minutes and 29:53.740 --> 29:58.540 realized he was a phony and realized where it was all headed, but but he had a really shiny 29:58.540 --> 30:05.500 bald head. So it was hard to discount him. He did and Bill Maher loved him. MSNBC loved him. 30:06.140 --> 30:10.540 Everybody loved him. Yeah, they were thinking he was going to run for president. That's right. 30:10.540 --> 30:16.940 And, and, and when he brought Julie Sweatnik out to make accusations against Brett Kavanaugh, 30:16.940 --> 30:21.180 they were members of the Senate who actually took them seriously and asked questions related to 30:21.180 --> 30:26.140 that of Kavanaugh's hearing. So this guy was taken seriously in the media and in the Senate 30:26.140 --> 30:34.380 by at least one Senator. And yeah, now he's doing 16 years. Okay. So you got to wonder, I think, 30:35.100 --> 30:39.420 I shouldn't say that. I should say you should be skeptical of anyone who's holding themselves 30:39.420 --> 30:45.180 out as a legal authority on any of this stuff. Now there's one other thing I want to point out 30:45.180 --> 30:50.460 here. This is something a little more recent. This is the last thing I'm going to share before I 30:50.460 --> 31:02.220 kind of end my lecture here. This is an article I pulled up just by random. Now I had 31:03.420 --> 31:09.900 come to this recognition on my own separately. Okay, I had no idea this article was written. 31:10.780 --> 31:13.660 I was looking into, you know, people who sue for vaccines, 31:14.220 --> 31:18.780 of vaccine injuries, because that does happen. They're lawyers who take these cases. And I was 31:18.780 --> 31:24.860 trying to look at how that all that structured. What bothers me about the system we have right 31:24.860 --> 31:33.580 now is that the Seventh Amendment says I can sue anyone for any injury worth more than $20. Okay, 31:34.300 --> 31:38.860 it's pretty unambiguous. Okay, then the framers of constitution didn't put any exceptions in there. 31:39.580 --> 31:43.980 And generally speaking, there are no exceptions to that rule. They're well, there are. I mean, 31:43.980 --> 31:47.820 you can't sue the federal government unless they've waived sovereign immunity. But there's a few 31:47.820 --> 31:52.220 other things. So the Seventh Amendment says this. So I'm thinking again about my daughter. 31:52.220 --> 31:59.500 I'm thinking about going forward. What kind of remedies are available to me? And I see there's 31:59.500 --> 32:08.460 this vaccine injury compensation program. Okay, it's not a real court. It's an administrative 32:08.460 --> 32:13.100 hearing essentially where you go ask the government for money. Okay, normally when you get injured 32:13.820 --> 32:19.740 by a medical product. Okay, you get your medical records and you show it to show the 32:19.740 --> 32:24.860 injury and you go through the medical, you know, the device manufacturer, the product manufacturer, 32:25.660 --> 32:33.180 the drug manufacturer. In this case, for vaccines, you have, first of all, law that says you can't 32:33.180 --> 32:40.380 do that, which seems unconstitutional. How can a law just say I can't sue? And then separately, 32:40.460 --> 32:46.780 they've set up this channel that sucks and vacuums up all the vaccine injury claims. 32:47.420 --> 32:51.260 And it takes them to a court called the Court of Federal Claims. The Court of Federal Claims 32:52.060 --> 32:57.020 is a court that only pays out money. It's just sits in front of a pot of money 32:57.020 --> 33:02.700 from the taxpayers. And so you take your injury complaint to the Court of Federal Claims, they 33:02.700 --> 33:07.420 look it over. And if they think you were injured by the vaccine, they pay you out. Some money 33:07.420 --> 33:12.460 comes out of the taxpayer funds. It does not come from the vaccine manufacturers. 33:13.100 --> 33:19.420 So what this means is that vaccine manufacturers can put risky, even harmful vaccines on the market. 33:20.540 --> 33:25.500 And if something goes wrong, and people are injured, people get compensated, but they get 33:25.500 --> 33:33.740 compensated by the government. Okay. Now, the other thing is that I stumble across somebody 33:33.740 --> 33:41.340 who was bringing a claim through this process. And I learned that while their claim was pending, 33:41.340 --> 33:46.620 their lawyer had filed for what they call interim attorney's fees. Now, I'd never heard of this 33:46.620 --> 33:54.380 before. Normally, when somebody sues on a contingency basis, a contingency basis means the lawyer gets 33:54.380 --> 33:59.020 paid after that. If you lose, the lawyer doesn't get anything. But if you win a million dollars, 33:59.020 --> 34:03.260 you know, the lawyer gets a third of that or whatever. That's contingency. Okay. So most of 34:03.260 --> 34:09.580 these cases are going to be contingency because nobody's got, you know, $500,000 to pay a lawyer 34:09.580 --> 34:22.380 hourly to sue somebody. So in this case, these lawyers can take junk claims to the Vaccine 34:22.380 --> 34:32.140 Injury Compensation Court and get paid before the court renders a judgment, 34:33.740 --> 34:40.620 meaning the lawyers get paid the same as if the case was good for bringing a bad case. 34:41.500 --> 34:51.580 All right. Now, this creates what economists call a moral hazard. All right. A moral hazard 34:52.940 --> 35:03.180 is where, let's say you rent a car from Hertz. Normally, you park in a neighborhood where there's 35:03.180 --> 35:07.260 a high risk of vandalism because you figure, hey, it's not my car. You know, if something happens, 35:07.260 --> 35:11.900 Hertz will pay for it. If it was your own car, you wouldn't do that. You might park it in a safer 35:11.900 --> 35:15.500 location because it's not your car and somebody else is paying for it. You park it in a dangerous 35:15.500 --> 35:23.260 location. It's typically used in the context of insurance because it comes up in an insurance 35:23.260 --> 35:35.820 cases. So what they're saying here is that a lawyer has no incentive to actually bring a valid 35:35.820 --> 35:46.140 claim before this Vaccine Injury Compensation Program. And what that means is that any lawyer 35:46.140 --> 35:54.140 right now who is bringing cases against the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program is not in a good 35:54.140 --> 36:01.020 position to challenge the constitutionality of the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program. 36:01.580 --> 36:07.580 All right. Because let's say that lawyers got 50 clients who are all seeking payment through 36:07.580 --> 36:15.500 the VICP. Those clients are might be expecting a few hundred thousand dollars, right? Each, maybe 36:15.500 --> 36:26.220 more. And if the lawyer on the side is working to push a Seventh Amendment argument that knocks 36:26.220 --> 36:31.900 down the VICP and says, you know, if this VICP is part of an unconstitutional regime to deprive 36:31.900 --> 36:34.940 Americans of their Seventh Amendment rights, if the Supreme Court were to say that, 36:37.500 --> 36:42.220 well, all 50 clients now are out of luck, right? Where are they going to get the money? Now they 36:42.220 --> 36:46.140 have to go to, now they may have to go to state courts, 50 different state courts. They got to 36:46.140 --> 36:50.860 hire another lawyer. Maybe there's no lawyers know how to do it. You know, there's all kinds, 36:51.740 --> 36:55.420 it can effectively prevent them from some of them from getting paid. 36:57.900 --> 37:03.020 I'll leave it to others to decide whether that constitutes a conflict of interest. But I know 37:03.020 --> 37:11.820 that if I were looking for a lawyer to challenge this regime, the constitutionality of this regime, 37:11.820 --> 37:19.660 I would look for a lawyer who is not making money off the regime. And I'm going to leave it there and 37:19.660 --> 37:27.020 just end my lecture and my introduction. Well, I think that's pretty freaking awesome. 37:28.620 --> 37:35.740 So you brought a couple things up that I have written down, but maybe I just want to let Mark 37:35.740 --> 37:41.900 say hello and warm up his mic a little bit because he hasn't been able to warm up his mic. And I 37:41.900 --> 37:48.060 think we were both kind of wondering what we would get from you first. So it's nice to go back to 37:48.060 --> 37:53.660 the beginning of this where we met and we came together. And I remember you telling me stories 37:53.660 --> 37:58.860 about and assuring another friend of ours that there's no way this mandate would stand and 37:59.820 --> 38:04.940 and you were obviously right. Mark, go ahead. Just come whatever come to your mind this afternoon. 38:05.500 --> 38:19.660 Well, regular guy, you never fail to deliver. I can see where the ship is being navigated to it 38:21.020 --> 38:34.700 for as this conversation goes on. It this 30 minutes highlights how naive most of us are 38:35.100 --> 38:48.220 or perhaps just unaware of the most people have not actually gone through these particular cases, 38:48.220 --> 38:56.060 these rulings, these Supreme Court opinions. And even if we did, it would be we would be 38:56.140 --> 39:04.940 unable to actually extract that level of information. And it just it highlights. I mean, we are all 39:04.940 --> 39:10.860 being compelled whether regardless of where we are in the political spectrum, but the right, 39:10.860 --> 39:16.300 whatever the heck that's supposed to mean anymore, just to be really angry and fearful and combative. 39:17.020 --> 39:24.220 And they're it this just highlights have just been some very well thought out arguments. 39:25.500 --> 39:33.340 It's that it's actually kind of uplifting, right? I mean, even if the assessment 39:33.900 --> 39:39.660 was a little bit different, right, it goes goes to show that there was a look, this is the law, 39:39.660 --> 39:45.580 this is precedence, and this is where things are. And it's like, okay, well, whatever that 39:46.220 --> 39:52.940 leads us, we can, of course, reassess it, right, or perhaps ask for, you know, changes to the law, 39:52.940 --> 39:59.660 whatever, but I actually find it just an enormous relief to know, okay, there actually has been 40:00.220 --> 40:05.980 a well thought out assessment that I was unable to review. I couldn't have understood it. 40:07.180 --> 40:13.980 And I mean, I don't know how you feel, Jay, but to me, this is it's it's kind of a relief 40:14.860 --> 40:19.340 aside from the details, okay, it's not that we're happy about the resolution. But just to know 40:19.900 --> 40:24.300 that there has been this level of assessment, in particular, the first opinion piece, 40:25.340 --> 40:29.660 was just so well thought out. I mean, just the highlighting the OSHA back then. I mean, it 40:29.660 --> 40:36.060 again, this this we have this perception of the executive orders. Oh, the president could just 40:36.060 --> 40:43.020 have an executive order for everyone to wear blue jeans on Tuesdays in the country. 40:43.500 --> 40:49.180 No, it's an executive branch order. And although there's a director of OSHA reporting in the 40:49.180 --> 40:55.580 executive branch, OSHA is not the White House, it's an agency, right? So we've just been created, 40:55.580 --> 41:01.820 as you well said, by Congress, by an act of Congress. So it's much more complicated 41:02.700 --> 41:11.180 and nuanced than we're being led to believe. And again, I don't want to give a spoiler of 41:11.180 --> 41:16.380 where I think this is going, but I think that you have definitely set the shift in the right 41:16.380 --> 41:25.180 direction for the rest of the conversation regular guy. Thank you. I, you know, I I I use an analogy 41:25.180 --> 41:33.980 of a I think a spider waiting to be fed a cricket. That's how I view the Supreme Court 41:34.940 --> 41:40.540 on these issues right now. I think the difficulty is getting up there. 41:41.980 --> 41:46.380 And the difficulty in getting to the Supreme Court has nothing to do with the lower courts. 41:47.660 --> 41:55.500 It really has to do, I think, with the supply of potential litigants and the supply of lawyers 41:55.500 --> 42:02.860 who are willing to take these cases. The lawyers who are willing to take these cases are not looking 42:02.860 --> 42:09.180 to push the kinds of arguments that you're seeing here. There's an interesting case that's 42:09.180 --> 42:16.300 come up in the in the Fifth Circuit out of Texas. Now, this again relates to the original vaccine 42:16.860 --> 42:24.220 executive order. And this litigation now, there's a petition for certiorari at the Supreme Court, 42:24.220 --> 42:30.940 meaning that the litigants are asking the Supreme Court to pick it up. And I think the Supreme Court 42:30.940 --> 42:35.500 will. If you look at who filed that litigation, it was a man named Boyden Gray, 42:36.380 --> 42:44.300 B-O-Y-D-E-N-G-R-A-Y. And if you look at who Boyden Gray was, he was the guy who 42:45.660 --> 42:51.180 told three or four different presidents who would nominate to the Supreme Court. He was that powerful. 42:53.260 --> 43:00.620 He died last year. He's an old guy. But not before he got that litigation kicked off in Texas. 43:01.500 --> 43:07.820 And that litigation kicked off in 2021. And other lawyers have picked it up and it's at the Supreme 43:07.820 --> 43:14.220 Court right now. But that is what it took in that case. It took somebody like Boyden Gray, 43:14.780 --> 43:22.220 somebody who had personally nominated. He had actually been the lawyer who advised George W. Bush 43:22.220 --> 43:30.700 to nominate Clarence Thomas. I mean, George H. W. Bush and he advised George W. Bush to nominate 43:30.700 --> 43:38.220 John Roberts. So the guy who put two Supreme Court justices on the court brought that lawsuit 43:40.780 --> 43:50.220 before he died. So that's what it took in that case. I get very frustrated with the level of 43:50.220 --> 43:58.940 discourse that I see online because I see a lot of boning us. I see a lot of people who have an 43:58.940 --> 44:05.980 incentive to disemble on certain topics. And frankly, I see a lot of people that are taking 44:05.980 --> 44:11.420 case to the vaccine injury compensation program. And by the way, I noticed in the comments people 44:11.420 --> 44:17.180 mentioned that the COVID vaccine is a countermeasure. That's true. There's a countermeasure 44:17.180 --> 44:23.660 injury compensation program that's roughly the same as the VICP. It's not as well funded 44:23.660 --> 44:30.060 right now. And the major difference there is that attorneys can't get interim fees there. 44:30.620 --> 44:37.340 So attorneys don't have an incentive to bring crappy claims to the CICP like they do with the VICP. 44:37.900 --> 44:45.500 Now that said, it may not be much of it. It may not mean much of anything because there is a push 44:46.220 --> 44:52.460 to get full authorization for these vaccines. And once the vaccines get full authorization, 44:52.460 --> 45:00.380 they'll be in the VICP. They won't be in the CICP. Second of all, both the CICP and the VICP 45:01.100 --> 45:07.260 exist for the same fundamental purpose. And it's to vacuum up lawsuits that might otherwise go 45:07.260 --> 45:12.940 to a federal court where someone could actually challenge the constitutionality of the prep act, 45:12.940 --> 45:21.580 let's say. So they both serve the same purpose. So if you strike at the prep act and you strike at 45:21.580 --> 45:30.140 the vaccine, the law is a grand immunity to vaccine manufacturers, I think it will have 45:30.140 --> 45:38.700 the effect of killing off the CICP and the VICP. So I think, you know, for purposes of 45:39.500 --> 45:45.260 identifying some real unfairness in the system, I think the VICP seems to be the most glaring 45:45.260 --> 45:52.300 because of those interim attorneys fees. If you can think of any other area of life where a lawyer 45:52.940 --> 46:02.060 can bring a totally junk claim and get paid by the government, please tell it to Jay so he can 46:02.060 --> 46:06.780 let me know. Because maybe I'll want to go to law school then and become a lawyer. Who knows? 46:09.420 --> 46:16.300 It's that absurd. There's no other analogy. And it wasn't until I found that law review article, 46:16.300 --> 46:20.540 honestly. Actually, I'm not sure it's a law review article, but that article that I posted at the 46:20.540 --> 46:26.300 end that I realized somebody else had actually looked into this. And it's from 2014, it was issued 46:26.380 --> 46:32.380 by Liberty University. It didn't come from Harvard, but it was sort of a hallelujah moment for me 46:32.380 --> 46:36.780 that I realized I wasn't alone. Someone else had noticed this and that, yeah, this is the only 46:36.780 --> 46:42.460 place where lawyers get paid for bringing junk claims. And the only reason that they can possibly 46:42.460 --> 46:48.860 be doing that is to prevent any lawyer from ever challenging the constitutionality of it. 46:48.860 --> 46:53.980 Because as soon as you challenge the constitutionality of it, you risk not getting paid. 46:56.300 --> 47:00.700 You risk your client not getting paid. And they can drag that on for years, right? In theory. 47:00.700 --> 47:05.660 That's right. Yeah, a client would have to agree to that. The client would have to sign up 47:06.540 --> 47:12.380 for all that because most people would not. Most people would say, wait a minute. You 47:12.380 --> 47:17.580 could have gotten me the easy money at the VICP. Why? What are we doing in Missouri State Court? 47:19.180 --> 47:21.980 Mark, you have a question. Well, I mean, this is a 47:22.780 --> 47:29.020 let's stay on subject here. But while this may sound to some like a, you know, we're getting into 47:29.020 --> 47:35.500 the weeds a little bit here, regular guy just mentions the constitutionality topic. And many 47:35.500 --> 47:46.220 would say in spite of the many, many challenges and weaknesses are still relatively infant country 47:46.220 --> 47:52.540 has. And I think the great future it will have is we always, many people refer back to, and I 47:52.540 --> 47:56.860 will as well, we have a constitution, we have justice, we have the rule of law. Fantastic. 47:56.860 --> 48:06.140 That's true. Which means if we were to somehow bypass that, well, then it's all open. 48:07.180 --> 48:12.780 And what you're highlighting here is the the very tip that I hate to can't stand this in 48:12.860 --> 48:20.460 this phrase, but of a massive iceberg that for some reason is unusually low in the water. And 48:20.460 --> 48:25.820 you can all it's almost completely under the surface. But you can see a tip of there has been 48:26.380 --> 48:35.420 a lot of thought into having ways, whether it be compensation programs or 48:35.500 --> 48:46.380 other methods of approaching the law or having things resolved through arbitration and dialogue 48:46.380 --> 48:55.500 and separate government programs to avoid the constitution to avoid the rule of law. If there 48:55.500 --> 49:02.780 were to be a major redirection of the country, what do you do? Well, you find ways to not use 49:02.860 --> 49:08.860 these great things. So this is not just a tiny little corner case that we are just starting to talk 49:08.860 --> 49:15.660 about here. This is gigantic. This is galactic right now. And that's just that's the start. So 49:15.660 --> 49:20.380 just for the audience to tie and sit, I'm trying to tell them why you want to keep listening here 49:20.380 --> 49:26.060 and why and where this goes. I mean, you know, I know that there's a discussion to be had there 49:26.060 --> 49:33.580 with respect to patents in particular, because patents in patent law arbitration and mediation 49:33.580 --> 49:38.780 are used to keep disputes private and to avoid setting precedent. But I'm also sharing here 49:41.420 --> 49:48.860 an article that came out quite a while ago. I think this is from 2011. No, no, actually maybe 49:48.940 --> 49:58.620 more recent. I first became aware of issues at the FDA through a lecture that I saw 49:59.260 --> 50:04.380 by a law professor named Richard Epstein from 2011. You can still find it on YouTube. It still 50:04.380 --> 50:09.980 probably only has about 30 views. And he spends about two hours just tearing into the FDA. 50:11.420 --> 50:18.300 Not for any reasons that really are relevant to what we're talking about here. But this is an 50:18.300 --> 50:24.220 interesting article because it points out that that the FDA violates the first amendment left 50:24.220 --> 50:32.860 and right, which is true. And the way that it does that is that there's no reason why I shouldn't 50:32.860 --> 50:40.060 be able to cook up a batch of something on my stove and call it a COVID vaccine or say that it treats 50:40.060 --> 50:48.780 COVID. I could go out on the street corner, set up a lemonade stand, my lemonade cures COVID 50:49.580 --> 50:55.900 first amendment. Now, if there's fraud there, somebody can sue me. It's not like there's no legal 50:55.900 --> 51:00.220 remedies where I can just poison people. I could fight poison in there. I can go to jail. 51:00.700 --> 51:06.300 All right. What the FDA says is that you can't use those words effective 51:07.340 --> 51:17.420 COVID, okay, unless you have our permission. Now, this is something that's challenged routinely 51:17.420 --> 51:22.620 by supplement manufacturers. And that's really what this article is about. Supplement manufacturers 51:22.620 --> 51:27.900 want to say effective at lowering blood pressure in Yada Yada. And so they sue the FDA and they 51:27.900 --> 51:32.620 say, hey, you guys are infringing our first amendment rights. And what this says 51:34.700 --> 51:41.020 that the FDA's response has been to strategically avoid appealing these decisions, 51:41.740 --> 51:48.060 to construe these decisions as narrowly as possible, and attempt to continue on business as usual. 51:48.060 --> 51:53.340 So what they mean is that an individual supplement manufacturer might win, and then they go, okay, 51:54.140 --> 51:59.020 that supplement manufacturer fine. They can put it on their label. But everybody else 51:59.020 --> 52:04.620 who's making vitamin D, you know, you got to bring your own separate suit, okay. So every 52:04.620 --> 52:09.420 individual supplement manufacturer that wants to put that on their label has to go and sue the FDA 52:09.420 --> 52:15.180 and win. All right. Just the fact that one vitamin D manufacturer did it doesn't open the door to 52:15.180 --> 52:22.300 the rest of them. All right. And so this was a strategy that the FDA was using for a long time. 52:22.380 --> 52:27.420 Now this is commercial speech, which is still protected under the first amendment, but it has 52:27.420 --> 52:34.300 has lower protections. But what's interesting about this is that there is a movement in the 52:36.140 --> 52:39.660 I'll call it the scovid COVID skeptic community right now 52:41.340 --> 52:48.460 to reform the FDA. I heard Vivek talk about this. I don't know if Vivek is still in the in the 52:48.540 --> 52:54.380 race, but but the last last I saw he was he was he was talking about this. He was saying, you know, 52:55.100 --> 53:00.540 the FDA is really unscientific and the FDA does blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Now what these people 53:00.540 --> 53:05.980 are really pushing for is they're pushing for the FDA to have no standard so that anybody can 53:05.980 --> 53:13.100 sell anything. Okay. What Vivek is complaining about is not that the FDA isn't being rigorous 53:13.100 --> 53:19.420 enough when it evaluates these drugs for safety and efficacy. What he's saying is, hey, it's so 53:19.420 --> 53:26.460 sloppy with these vaccines that the drugs my pharma company makes. You know, the FDA has to be 53:26.460 --> 53:32.060 equally sloppy when it reviews our drugs too. It allowed them to say it's safe and effective. 53:32.060 --> 53:37.660 It should allow us to say it's safe and effective. Right. And so there's that push that's coming 53:37.740 --> 53:43.820 from the industry. And so the reason I point this out is to highlight that to the extent that 53:43.820 --> 53:50.860 people are really spun up and are aware of the constitutional issues here and and to the extent 53:50.860 --> 53:54.700 there are people who are reading Supreme Court cases who aren't really invested in this, 53:55.900 --> 54:04.540 they're not on your side. And that includes, I think, some of the ones that are holding themselves 54:04.540 --> 54:12.220 out there is COVID skeptics. I think they have legal interests that they are protecting by 54:12.220 --> 54:18.460 saying the problem's over here. It's not over there. You know, these people who are telling you, 54:18.460 --> 54:26.860 for example, that this key to suing Pfizer is to find that they committed some kind of willful 54:26.860 --> 54:33.260 fraud. They lied. They committed some crime. They knew it was bad. They knew it was taint, 54:33.260 --> 54:39.180 this kind of stuff. If you look at the prep act, yeah, there's a little section in the prep act 54:39.180 --> 54:48.140 that says that the immunity doesn't apply for willful misconduct. The thing is all these lawyers 54:48.140 --> 54:52.140 who are doing this, they're trying to work within the parameters of the prep act. In other words, 54:52.140 --> 54:57.820 they accept the constitutionality of the prep act as a given. And they're saying since the prep act 54:57.820 --> 55:04.620 says we can sue for willful misconduct, we'll go look for willful misconduct. None of them are 55:04.620 --> 55:10.380 saying, hey, wait a minute, I should be able to sue for any negligence. I should be able to sue 55:10.380 --> 55:16.460 for any injury again. I shouldn't have to prove that they intended to do it. I don't have to prove 55:16.460 --> 55:23.500 that the landlord intended to make the stairs slippery. All I have to prove is that he didn't 55:23.500 --> 55:32.700 come out and shovel him. Interesting, interesting, interesting. Yes, I see, I see. 55:33.580 --> 55:40.380 It's tricky. We can have more conversations about it later too. I mean, this is all broad 55:40.380 --> 55:46.300 brush overstrokes. And, you know, I'm talking here about things that I've observed over the course 55:46.380 --> 55:54.620 of two years. Again, all I've been this entire time is a father concerned about, 55:55.500 --> 56:01.100 you know, there was a proposed vaccine law at one point that almost went into effect that would 56:01.100 --> 56:05.100 have required my daughter to get vaccinated to go to school. And I had a problem with that. 56:06.060 --> 56:13.660 And, you know, I, and so from day one, I've been solely focused on that one. That's been my primary 56:13.660 --> 56:18.780 focus, I would say. But along the way, I've fallen down X number of rabbit holes. 56:20.700 --> 56:24.780 And, you know, the reason I'm on this show, by the way, is because 56:26.540 --> 56:31.660 JC is the only person that I've talked to over the course of two years who's consistently, 56:31.660 --> 56:39.100 I think, thought about this stuff logically. And honestly, everybody else that I've talked to, 56:39.100 --> 56:44.700 I run into a brick wall with them at some point. JC's been the only one that seems to follow it. 56:45.580 --> 56:51.100 So, you know, I've kept talking. And it just got to the point where, you know, 56:51.660 --> 56:56.060 I felt maybe I should introduce myself because I want people to get the full picture and help 56:56.060 --> 57:01.420 chase, help them understand. You know, like JC said, the depth of the conversations that are 57:01.420 --> 57:07.740 happening behind the scenes. Do you think that others are intentionally? 57:09.260 --> 57:15.420 Falling in or take going into those areas? Or do you think that they're, they are subject to 57:15.420 --> 57:21.900 fallacies that even they are unaware of? I even know what question I think I just want you to 57:21.900 --> 57:26.060 expand upon. Well, okay, so first of all, yeah, first of all, most of the people who are 57:26.940 --> 57:31.820 holding themselves out as that I see online. Okay, so I've got many friends who are 57:32.700 --> 57:37.660 anti-vaxxers and I'll stop by their homes. And they want to show me a YouTube video, 57:37.660 --> 57:41.340 some lawyer saying, oh, this is amazing. You got to hear this. You got to hear this. 57:42.460 --> 57:47.340 And inevitably, it's junk. I can't make it through the first 30 seconds because I can tell it's 57:47.340 --> 57:54.220 just gibberish. Now, most of these people are not as far as I can tell real practicing lawyers. 57:54.220 --> 58:00.300 Okay, one of them, probably the most famous one. I went and looked at the guy's website 58:02.060 --> 58:07.100 to see like, you know, how it stacks up against other lawyers' websites. And I see that he 58:07.180 --> 58:12.540 advertises himself, he advertises paralegal services. The guy's actually offering to do 58:12.540 --> 58:19.020 work as a paralegal, even though he's got a law degree. That's weird. Okay, that suggests to me 58:19.020 --> 58:23.820 that this guy has never actually practiced law. He's out there, you know, he's really desperate 58:23.820 --> 58:28.620 enough that he's going to hold himself on his own website as a paralegal. But he's out here, 58:28.620 --> 58:34.460 you know, getting all kinds of comments on social media and stuff, you know. And I see that kind 58:34.540 --> 58:41.260 of stuff a lot. I just see jokers. I don't see, you know, the where I see the legit players, 58:41.260 --> 58:44.700 when I look at the names that are on the filings, like I mentioned Boyd and Gray, 58:45.580 --> 58:50.460 the only reason I noticed Boyd and Gray was because I read a writ for Sir Shirari, 58:50.460 --> 58:54.700 he came up at Supreme Court and I looked at the law firm that was at the bottom and I had his name 58:54.700 --> 58:59.980 on it. And I said, the hell, could that be the same guy? And sure enough, it was. But there was no 59:00.540 --> 59:07.580 news about him doing this. Nobody made a big stink about it. He didn't seek fame for it. 59:09.340 --> 59:14.140 I think that there are organizations out there that are probably 59:15.820 --> 59:22.540 supportive of this kind of thing on some level. But it's hard to say because, you know, 59:23.020 --> 59:29.740 the big ones that I know of are affiliated with law schools and the law school faculty 59:29.740 --> 59:37.020 who run them may have conflicting interests. So I'm not sure that those organizations are the 59:39.660 --> 59:48.060 best. I will say that George Mason University has did some early litigation related to this stuff. 59:48.540 --> 59:53.340 I don't know quite where they are right now, but they've got a pretty activist law school there. 59:55.660 --> 01:00:03.740 But other organizations, it's hard to say because, you know, the way that the legal profession 01:00:03.740 --> 01:00:11.980 operates is that people come out of law school, if they come out of a top law school, 01:00:12.940 --> 01:00:18.300 they're recruited while they're in school. And they're typically recruited by big firms. 01:00:18.300 --> 01:00:25.020 People are usually trying to work for these big firms. And so they get this kind of exposure 01:00:25.020 --> 01:00:29.340 to the corporate side of things right out of law school. And then if they want to transition 01:00:29.340 --> 01:00:33.900 to something else, they've got the golden handcuffs at that point that, you know, they don't want 01:00:33.900 --> 01:00:37.820 to take too much of a pay cut. So they're looking to go in-house somewhere. You know, 01:00:37.820 --> 01:00:41.740 they're looking for somebody that's going to pay. There aren't too many people out there that 01:00:41.740 --> 01:00:48.860 don't, that have the credentials that haven't gone through that sort of career trajectory. 01:00:49.500 --> 01:00:54.300 Okay. You look at Boyd and Gray, he was at the end of his career when he filed that lawsuit. 01:00:56.300 --> 01:01:00.940 So can I push back on that for a little bit just to see how this affects your opinion? So 01:01:02.700 --> 01:01:08.060 Boyd and Gray put forth Clarence Thomas. Clarence Thomas was a Monsanto lawyer. 01:01:08.940 --> 01:01:11.740 My odd, 01:01:14.780 --> 01:01:21.580 my spidey sense is wondering if you could imagine a scenario where these lawsuits that you covered 01:01:22.300 --> 01:01:30.380 that we discussed, they were percureum. And even these things would to go with the FDA are all kind of 01:01:30.940 --> 01:01:39.180 a probing, a probing exercise from both sides of the aisle, from the left and from the right 01:01:39.180 --> 01:01:48.300 to try and see how these, where the holes are in the, in the legislative, you know, wall so that 01:01:48.300 --> 01:01:55.420 they can change these things or institute mandates. So maybe the OSHA thing was just a test and that 01:01:55.420 --> 01:01:59.820 didn't work, but they got an answer from the Supreme Court that will allow them to test it again next 01:01:59.900 --> 01:02:08.860 time. And so to what extent could Boyd and Gray's lawsuit be just another test of where the holes 01:02:08.860 --> 01:02:14.860 are in the system, given that Boyd and Gray is some kind of dude who at least seems to have promoted 01:02:14.860 --> 01:02:20.540 Clarence Thomas, who in the past, I used to think was kind of a bad guy. I know that he's a 01:02:20.540 --> 01:02:28.060 conservative judge, but I also knew that he worked for some pretty shady corporation. So does that 01:02:28.700 --> 01:02:35.340 go well? Well, I, you know, my take on Thomas is that I think is, I think is his career before 01:02:35.340 --> 01:02:40.540 coming to federal service was fairly innocuous. He worked, he was chairman of the EEOC, 01:02:42.300 --> 01:02:52.220 which is normally an extremely, I would say, let's call it liberal or agency. Okay. And to put a guy 01:02:52.220 --> 01:02:59.100 like that in charge of the EEOC was pretty significant. And I don't know what kind of 01:02:59.100 --> 01:03:05.580 reputation you earned at the EEOC, but Bush had to fill Thurgood Marshall's seat. And of course, 01:03:05.580 --> 01:03:13.020 he had pressure to fill with an African American. And now what I'll say about Thomas as a justice 01:03:13.020 --> 01:03:19.820 is that he doesn't really care about precedent. And I think he has a point. Why should Clarence 01:03:19.820 --> 01:03:26.380 Thomas care what some other Supreme Court justice had to say in 1911? Clarence Thomas, 01:03:26.380 --> 01:03:31.340 Supreme Court justice too. So he's not, he doesn't care about precedent. He's happy to overturn it. 01:03:33.660 --> 01:03:42.300 And, you know, he's got, he's got some other other quirks. But in general, he's been, I would say, 01:03:42.300 --> 01:03:47.260 intellectually consistent, much more so than Scalia. He used to get accused of copying Scalia, 01:03:47.260 --> 01:03:52.380 but it's really not like, really never liked that at all. People say they never ask questions 01:03:52.380 --> 01:03:57.100 at oral argument. But if you go to the YouTube, if you go on YouTube, you check me on this, 01:03:57.100 --> 01:04:03.340 you can listen to the oral arguments on these vaccine mandate lawsuits that I read over. 01:04:04.460 --> 01:04:10.860 And the first question to the solicitor generals from Thomas, and he says, what was the emergency? 01:04:11.820 --> 01:04:17.820 Which is a good question. This is an emergency declaration. What was the emergency in October 2021? 01:04:17.820 --> 01:04:23.020 So the vaccines have been out for nine months at that point. What was the emergency? COVID had been 01:04:23.020 --> 01:04:28.620 around for, you know, almost two years, right? Which is a very good question because it gets to the 01:04:28.620 --> 01:04:34.700 issue of whether this was an abuse of an emergency authority. Now, what I think, where I think this 01:04:35.340 --> 01:04:44.140 is headed, is for the Supreme Court to strike down some of these emergency authority provisions. 01:04:44.140 --> 01:04:52.140 Okay. Now, I've got, I'm sharing here the actual law that confers this liability. 01:04:56.540 --> 01:05:01.340 Now, right here, subject to other provisions of this section, a covered person, she'll be immune 01:05:01.340 --> 01:05:07.020 from suit and liability under federal state law with her. Okay. That's just saying Seventh 01:05:07.020 --> 01:05:15.420 Amendment doesn't work here. Okay. So no Seventh Amendment. And if you go down to where, yeah, 01:05:15.420 --> 01:05:20.860 declaration of the secretary. So this kicks in as soon as the secretary makes a determination. 01:05:20.860 --> 01:05:27.900 And the secretary doesn't have to do any science here. The secretary simply has to consider 01:05:27.980 --> 01:05:31.100 certain things. If you look at the verbs, factors to be considered, 01:05:31.740 --> 01:05:37.420 consider these things. Okay. And then look at this. No court of the United States, 01:05:37.420 --> 01:05:42.380 right here, Number seven, or any state shall have subject manager restriction to review whether 01:05:42.380 --> 01:05:48.460 by mandamus or otherwise any action by the secretary under the subsection. Meaning you can't challenge 01:05:48.460 --> 01:05:54.460 what the secretary's decision here, even though there isn't a requirement that the secretary be 01:05:54.460 --> 01:06:03.420 particularly scientific here. Okay. So this is a very weak standard for supporting suspension 01:06:03.420 --> 01:06:10.620 of people's Seventh Amendment rights. Okay. I think Thomas is sympathetic to that. 01:06:11.180 --> 01:06:21.980 I think he's more than happy to get rid of that stuff. What's occurred recently that I haven't 01:06:21.980 --> 01:06:30.860 talked about is really a bigger change. If you Google Chevron Doctrine, there's a case from 1984, 01:06:31.500 --> 01:06:36.540 very famous Supreme Court case that establishes a rule that basically says that whenever an 01:06:36.540 --> 01:06:41.580 agency makes a determination that requires any kind of scientific expertise, any kind of scientific 01:06:41.580 --> 01:06:48.220 judgment, courts are supposed to defer to the agency experts because judges are English majors 01:06:48.220 --> 01:06:52.780 and polyside majors. They don't know anything about, you know, nuclear physics or any of that 01:06:52.780 --> 01:06:58.940 crap that the EPA does. So just trust the experts. Trust the expert to the agency. And it's a rule. 01:06:58.940 --> 01:07:04.380 Okay. It's a, it's an instruction from the Supreme Court that basically says, you know, if when in 01:07:04.380 --> 01:07:10.620 doubt, go with the, with, with the agency, what the government says. Okay. Now this is called 01:07:10.620 --> 01:07:16.700 Chevron Decorance and it's, and it's a form of, you're deferring to the executive branch. It's the 01:07:16.700 --> 01:07:21.580 judicial branch deferring to the executive branch. So it's a separation of powers issue. 01:07:22.380 --> 01:07:28.940 What's happened is that the court in recent years has just disregarded it. Okay. So for example, 01:07:30.060 --> 01:07:38.060 Thomas's question, an oral argument, what was the emergency? The law says you can't ask that 01:07:38.060 --> 01:07:46.140 question. Okay. The law says no, no one can review the secretary's declaration here. Well, Thomas 01:07:46.140 --> 01:07:50.940 is saying, I don't care about that law. I'm asking you what the emergency was. And the 01:07:50.940 --> 01:07:56.300 solicitor general didn't say, oh, um, uh, Justice Thomas, uh, you can't ask that question. It's illegal. 01:07:56.940 --> 01:08:01.180 You know, I'm, I mean, they'd be inviting destruction at that point, right? 01:08:02.540 --> 01:08:08.780 And so I think the task is, and I think there are many people on the court who are sympathetic to 01:08:08.780 --> 01:08:12.060 this. Brett Kavanaugh, before he was on the Supreme Court, was on the D.C. Circuit. 01:08:13.020 --> 01:08:18.060 He's on the D.C. Circuit for, I think, 12 years. He wrote something like 300 opinions. 01:08:20.060 --> 01:08:25.900 If you read any of his opinions at random, he would go into these agency decision-making processes. 01:08:25.900 --> 01:08:32.300 A lot of detail. This is something that the D.C. Circuit does a lot. He's very much a fan of 01:08:32.300 --> 01:08:37.820 getting rid of this junk about agency deference. Um, I think Gorsuch is fine with it. 01:08:38.380 --> 01:08:41.900 Well, you know, he's got no problem with it. And then it's just a question of, you know, 01:08:41.900 --> 01:08:45.420 is Robert's going to write the opinion or is he going to let someone else do it? Okay. 01:08:46.140 --> 01:08:50.780 But that's assuming a case actually gets up there. To get a case up there, you've got to get 01:08:50.780 --> 01:08:56.540 what's called standing. You have to convince a court that you have the right to sue. And to have 01:08:56.540 --> 01:09:01.420 the right to sue, you have to show an injury. An injury can't be speculative. It's got to be a 01:09:01.420 --> 01:09:07.180 real, you know, injury that you're going to experience as a result of this law. And a lot of people 01:09:07.180 --> 01:09:12.380 have trouble at that stage. A lot of people have trouble showing that they have standing. 01:09:12.380 --> 01:09:19.340 And so Boyden Gray's genius was getting standing in Texas before he died. And it was really odd 01:09:19.340 --> 01:09:26.060 how he did that. I can go into in detail, but I might bore people. But it was a really interesting, 01:09:26.060 --> 01:09:29.900 really interesting case. The starters really had to align there. And you had to have the right lawyer 01:09:29.900 --> 01:09:36.620 looking for it. I think maybe the best analogy is Peter Thiel. When Hulk Hogan sued Gawker, 01:09:37.260 --> 01:09:42.860 he sued Gawker in a bankruptcy, put them out of business. Now the way that began was that Gawker 01:09:42.860 --> 01:09:48.220 had revealed that Peter Thiel was gay and Peter Thiel didn't like this. He wanted to put Gawker 01:09:48.220 --> 01:09:53.900 out of business. He hired a team of lawyers to read every Gawker article about every celebrity 01:09:54.460 --> 01:09:59.100 and find some celebrities who could bring like a defamation or invasion of privacy claim or something 01:09:59.100 --> 01:10:04.940 against Gawker. And then see if they could sign them up to bring this lawsuit. And so this team of 01:10:04.940 --> 01:10:08.620 lawyers went through all these Gawker articles and they found this stuff on Hulk Hogan. And they 01:10:08.620 --> 01:10:13.740 called Hulk Hogan and they said, Hey, would you like us to rep you for free to sue Gawker for 25 01:10:13.740 --> 01:10:19.260 million? And Hulk Hogan said, Sure. And then they went and sued Gawker and they put Gawker out of 01:10:19.260 --> 01:10:25.180 business. Right? So it took a team of lawyers going and looking for a sympathetic litigant. 01:10:26.620 --> 01:10:30.540 The other analogy that I sometimes use is Rosa Parks because a lot of people think that Rosa 01:10:30.620 --> 01:10:35.180 Parks just, you know, got off work one day, got on the bus, feet were tired, didn't want to move. 01:10:36.060 --> 01:10:42.060 But actually, no, Rosa Parks was on the board of the local NAACP. What had happened was that 01:10:42.060 --> 01:10:48.380 another woman had been kicked off the bus for refusing to move. But that woman was a pregnant 01:10:48.380 --> 01:10:52.940 teenager and they didn't want to hurt her to be the face of the movement. Rosa Parks knew this 01:10:52.940 --> 01:10:56.780 particular bus driver, knew that he was a stickler for the rules, knew that, you know, 01:10:57.500 --> 01:11:01.900 if she didn't move on that bus, that particular bus driver would make a big stink about it 01:11:01.900 --> 01:11:09.980 and got on that bus and, you know, and brought impact litigation. Okay. So it took that kind 01:11:09.980 --> 01:11:16.620 of an effort. Okay. And a lot of these cases took organization planning and money resources to do 01:11:16.620 --> 01:11:22.060 it. And that's something that you don't see anyone trying to put together right now. I don't think. 01:11:23.020 --> 01:11:27.500 Oh, man, that was a great summary. I'm so excited that you said that and said it in that way, 01:11:27.500 --> 01:11:31.820 because I think that's, that's really what we're talking about with the Seventh Amendment, right? 01:11:31.820 --> 01:11:39.100 We, we have to have the right litigant willing with the right lawyer willing and with the right 01:11:39.100 --> 01:11:47.580 strategy worked out. And nobody's playing that game right now. Well, what a shame that every lawyer 01:11:47.660 --> 01:11:54.540 who might, you know, who's already in the vaccine injury game is taking claims to the vaccine 01:11:54.540 --> 01:12:03.260 injury compensation program and has, I think, a conflict of interest against taking any other 01:12:03.260 --> 01:12:12.860 vaccine injury case that would go through another venue. Yeah, it's crazy. I mean, they must have, 01:12:12.860 --> 01:12:17.820 there must be litigants who don't need the money. I mean, I can imagine an old commercial 01:12:17.820 --> 01:12:24.940 airline pilot who doesn't really care about the $800,000 he might get, but really wants to 01:12:25.660 --> 01:12:30.700 to change something because he's a patriot. Well, don't talk too much about it right now, but, 01:12:30.700 --> 01:12:34.620 but, but, you know, don't don't give too much away. Oh, yeah. It's happened. If that's the case, 01:12:34.620 --> 01:12:40.540 but, but I would say that, you know, it, it, it certainly, yeah, it, it, it takes the right 01:12:40.540 --> 01:12:47.500 confluence of, of, of personalities and, and, and, and people with some determination and 01:12:48.060 --> 01:12:54.140 that, that, that, and I want to get back to, you know, that, that VICP program with the interim fees 01:12:54.140 --> 01:13:02.860 where lawyers get paid fees for non-meritorious claims. That has the effect of drawing every 01:13:02.860 --> 01:13:08.940 good claim in addition to all the junk claims through the vaccine injury compensation program. 01:13:08.940 --> 01:13:14.540 It has the effect of ensuring that 100% of vaccine injury lawyers are going to take 01:13:14.540 --> 01:13:19.740 cases through the vaccine injury compensation program, right? Because it's free money, 01:13:19.740 --> 01:13:28.060 it's guaranteed money, win or lose, the lawyer gets paid. And that, it is, that, it was created 01:13:28.860 --> 01:13:36.620 with the express purpose of draining the swamp of any lawyer who might take a vaccine injury case 01:13:36.620 --> 01:13:43.020 through another venue. It means the entire legal profession is barren of a lawyer who with any 01:13:43.020 --> 01:13:48.380 experience doing that sort of thing or any desire to do that sort of thing or the ability 01:13:48.380 --> 01:13:56.700 due to the conflict of interest issue. I have two questions. One is before we lose it, 01:13:57.580 --> 01:14:03.100 when you said Roberts, a Gorsuch had no problem with the Chevron deference, 01:14:04.460 --> 01:14:08.860 deference, excuse me. There's no problem killing it. No problem killing it. Okay, 01:14:08.860 --> 01:14:14.860 I just wanted to be clear with that because, again, this is another, how do you take away 01:14:14.860 --> 01:14:23.660 powers from the Supreme Court? Well, you, you continuously have, you know, steer people towards 01:14:23.660 --> 01:14:31.500 very technically complicated cases where only, you know, the science, if you will, 01:14:31.500 --> 01:14:38.380 in another agency or an executive branch can determine which way it goes, right? Right. But 01:14:38.380 --> 01:14:45.980 the other one was, let's see, you just mentioned the, oh, yeah, the vaccine injury. Do you see, 01:14:46.860 --> 01:14:52.060 in the, in the, what we refer to as the truth or dissident movement, 01:14:53.660 --> 01:14:59.660 reaffirmation of these programs of like the vaccine injury court, as they saying, oh, yeah, 01:14:59.660 --> 01:15:05.100 please, and not getting people to realize that they're effectively doubling down and pursuing 01:15:05.100 --> 01:15:12.860 something that should be outside of our constitution of our, yes, yes, because every lawyer that's 01:15:12.860 --> 01:15:21.420 doing vaccine injury litigation, if you go to their law firm website, you will see that they 01:15:21.420 --> 01:15:28.620 take their clients through the vaccine injury compensation program. So they may want to get 01:15:28.620 --> 01:15:35.100 discovery and prove certain facts about, you know, what this scientist was doing in Africa or this 01:15:35.100 --> 01:15:40.220 and this and that. Okay. But the question is, what are you going to do with it? Where's it all going? 01:15:41.100 --> 01:15:46.780 If it's just getting released to the public, then it can inform the political process. 01:15:47.740 --> 01:15:51.260 But you're not taking it to court, and you're not talking about 01:15:52.780 --> 01:15:57.340 simple things like the Seventh Amendment and the fact that there's a legislative regime 01:15:57.980 --> 01:16:04.540 designed to deprive, very neatly designed, very carefully designed to deprive people of their 01:16:04.540 --> 01:16:08.540 Seventh Amendment rights. The people who wrote this law knew what they were doing. They knew that 01:16:09.420 --> 01:16:14.940 that provision that says a judge can't review it. That's called jurisdiction stripping. And 01:16:15.900 --> 01:16:22.300 most lawyers, they've learned about jurisdiction stripping as a theoretical thing that Congress 01:16:22.300 --> 01:16:27.740 could do sometime, you know, in the future. But it's bad. If you do a Google search on jurisdiction 01:16:27.740 --> 01:16:33.820 stripping, you'll see all these op-eds that say, you know, it might be a good eye. It might be 01:16:33.820 --> 01:16:38.220 possible. It might be constitutional, but it's a bad idea. It would poison inter-branch relations. 01:16:39.020 --> 01:16:45.100 Nobody seems to recognize that it's been done, that it was done in 2005 in the PrEP Act. 01:16:45.740 --> 01:16:49.660 Okay. Nobody, I don't, if nobody's going and reading these things, I don't know. 01:16:49.660 --> 01:16:54.700 But, you know, start there. The fact that you've got a law that says a judge can't review this law, 01:16:55.740 --> 01:17:01.420 that's not normal for Congress to pass a law and say, oh, by the way, no judge can review this law 01:17:01.420 --> 01:17:09.020 and decide whether it's constitutional. But that, you know, to see that jurisdiction stripping is 01:17:09.020 --> 01:17:16.620 done, and then to look at the mechanisms that were put in place to ensure that the constitutionality 01:17:17.180 --> 01:17:24.140 would never be challenged, right? That's where the VICP and the CICP comment, right? You're doing 01:17:24.140 --> 01:17:27.660 something unconstitutional. You're stripping people. They're Seventh Amendment rights sue. 01:17:28.460 --> 01:17:33.740 But you're denying them standing because they can't show an injury because they're getting paid 01:17:33.740 --> 01:17:39.580 out by the VICP, by the taxpayers. So if they try to sue and say, this is unconstitutional, 01:17:39.580 --> 01:17:43.260 the court's going to, the district court, the trial court's going to say, well, how are you 01:17:43.260 --> 01:17:47.580 injured? You know, you could go to the VICP and you could get a free lawyer because the government 01:17:47.580 --> 01:17:52.700 paid for it, and you could get, you know, your $500,000 paid out. They recognize your vaccine 01:17:52.780 --> 01:17:58.620 injury claim. So where's the injury? You got your money, right? And if you want to say, well, 01:17:58.620 --> 01:18:03.420 I wanted to sue Pfizer. I didn't want taxpayer dollars. I wanted to get the money for Pfizer. 01:18:03.420 --> 01:18:09.820 The courts can say, hey, money's money, you know? And so you're not going to have standing. You're 01:18:09.820 --> 01:18:14.220 not going to be able to bring that lawsuit, right? In order to really bring that lawsuit, 01:18:14.220 --> 01:18:18.940 you got to have some, you got to be able to say that this VICP program is denying you some, 01:18:19.580 --> 01:18:26.700 some, it's causing you some injury. And that, you know, I'm not quite sure how you'd frame that, 01:18:26.700 --> 01:18:33.020 but, you know, I've thought on that, but it's really, we're not there yet. It's more about, 01:18:33.740 --> 01:18:38.940 you know, this was structured this way. And I should add too that that passage I opened 01:18:39.820 --> 01:18:43.020 with that law professor giving those oral remarks about these ripple effects. 01:18:43.980 --> 01:18:48.940 That person is one of the chief architects, a lot of the stuff that we're going on that we're 01:18:48.940 --> 01:18:56.460 seeing right now. His name is Cass Sunstein teaches at Harvard now. He's, you know, he works for 01:18:56.460 --> 01:19:00.780 Department of Homeland Security. Wikipedia doesn't say that. If you go to Cass Sunstein's Wikipedia 01:19:00.780 --> 01:19:05.740 page, it does not mention that he currently works for Department of Homeland Security, 01:19:05.740 --> 01:19:10.220 but he does. And he's married to Samantha Power. And he worked for Obama as well. 01:19:10.300 --> 01:19:17.340 Yes, he's a married to Samantha Power. Yes, he is. Oh, my goodness. That's right. Oh, my goodness. 01:19:17.340 --> 01:19:22.380 That's right. He gave he, yes, he gave that quote that I read at the beginning from 1989. 01:19:22.380 --> 01:19:27.500 Sunstein. Nice. Yeah. How was that spelled again? If I may. 01:19:27.500 --> 01:19:32.460 S-U-N-S-T-E-I-N. He also wrote a book called Nudge. Yes. 01:19:33.340 --> 01:19:37.260 Cognitive infiltration. Think about, you know, what, I think the way to think about these 01:19:37.260 --> 01:19:40.940 executive orders, Mark, you brought this up. An executive order comes out and it's not apparent 01:19:40.940 --> 01:19:46.300 to people that, hey, that only applies to government agencies. That's by design. Okay, that's nudging. 01:19:47.100 --> 01:19:52.380 This is, you know, the governor comes out and says, it's illegal for people to have gatherings 01:19:52.380 --> 01:19:58.780 of more than 10 people. Now, the reality is that it's probably not constitutional to enforce that. 01:19:59.420 --> 01:20:07.020 But everybody obeys it anyway. Okay. Enough people obey it. And that's all it counts, right? 01:20:07.020 --> 01:20:12.780 So with these vaccine mandates, the legalities to some extent were secondary. The fact that it 01:20:12.780 --> 01:20:17.740 might get knocked down in courts in 90 days, I think, I think that was understood because it was a 01:20:17.740 --> 01:20:21.580 really poorly written executive order. And Biden said when he issued it, he said, I'll go ahead 01:20:21.580 --> 01:20:27.100 and challenge it. I don't care. And I think the point was to get everybody into this mindset of, 01:20:27.100 --> 01:20:32.540 well, I got to run out and get back, so I'm going to lose my job, right? And that's all took. It 01:20:32.620 --> 01:20:38.460 was a nudge, right? The legalities of it were sort of insignificant. And you're right, 01:20:38.460 --> 01:20:44.460 JC, yeah, I did. I did look at it and go, this isn't going to last 90 days. And it didn't last 01:20:44.460 --> 01:20:49.580 90 days. But, you know, it didn't, but there are people who still think it's an effect. 01:20:50.700 --> 01:20:54.380 And for that matter, states can, you know, experiment and do their own thing, right? This 01:20:54.380 --> 01:20:58.540 was just a federal thing. I don't know what various states are doing. 01:20:59.500 --> 01:21:05.500 So is there any way, not just, I don't want to take too much of your time today. And I know Mark 01:21:05.500 --> 01:21:10.460 is also busy. Is there any way we can convince you to join us again for a patent law discussion 01:21:10.460 --> 01:21:15.340 about, about the antibody paradox, maybe a couple of times? Because I know it's a lot of, 01:21:16.300 --> 01:21:21.340 yeah, I mean, it's not, it's not, that's not something that. So, so patent law is, is a very 01:21:22.460 --> 01:21:28.220 deep, complicated, rich area of the law, with a lot of doctrine attached to it. And there's 01:21:28.300 --> 01:21:32.860 special qualifications that are required to even sit for the patent bar. You have to have a certain 01:21:32.860 --> 01:21:37.580 number of STEM credits and all that. And, and, and I'm in no position to really 01:21:39.500 --> 01:21:45.740 dive in deep on, on that sort of stuff. However, I do see in broad brushstrokes 01:21:46.700 --> 01:21:54.860 things that may be happening. And I think that they are connected to, I think some of the things 01:21:54.940 --> 01:22:02.300 that we're seeing in the, the vaccine skeptic movement, let's, let's call it, may be linked 01:22:03.020 --> 01:22:11.820 somewhat to the, the, the, the change in the, the legal landscape for some of these patents. I do 01:22:11.820 --> 01:22:19.820 think that areas of the law that, it's the patents that used to be more lucrative may have suddenly 01:22:19.820 --> 01:22:25.740 become less lucrative. Now, I don't know really what to make of that. I, because it's all recent, 01:22:25.740 --> 01:22:30.220 and I'm only sort of looking at it from the outside. So, well, if you could just, you know, 01:22:30.220 --> 01:22:35.020 be a light guard in a shadow, I offer a regular guys opinion. Yeah, exactly. I mean, you know, 01:22:35.020 --> 01:22:40.460 okay. Yeah, that would be wonderful. I think that would be really fun. Mark, did you have any 01:22:41.420 --> 01:22:47.740 kind of closing remarks? I think it's going to take Mark and I a while to, to imagine the 01:22:47.740 --> 01:22:54.300 possibilities with you now that you're occasionally offering your time because I do think that, 01:22:55.420 --> 01:23:00.780 you know, as a, as a regular guy who has a lot of the same concerns that we do about our kid's 01:23:00.780 --> 01:23:07.180 future and how the, how the government is going to impose its will on our kid's future. 01:23:08.940 --> 01:23:13.900 I think it would be really handy to have you as, as a more regular guest and more importantly, 01:23:14.780 --> 01:23:20.780 um, again, like a shallow end lifeguard, you know, just, just keep your hands off of everybody or 01:23:20.780 --> 01:23:25.180 where's your buddy or whatever. And don't say that because that's dumb. I think would be really 01:23:25.180 --> 01:23:30.220 helpful. And again, we're not looking for, I know you went to school and stuff, but I want to advance 01:23:30.220 --> 01:23:35.980 the discussion exactly I can. And, and, and, and you and Mark are, are people that I see that think 01:23:36.620 --> 01:23:43.580 logically and seem to be in search in a good faith search for the truth. Um, even if you get things 01:23:43.580 --> 01:23:48.780 wrong once in a while, I think your methods are sound and that's, that's what matters to me. So, 01:23:48.780 --> 01:23:54.300 yeah, sure. Uh, it's fantastic. Mark, do you have any closing remarks? I think it's a sharp spot to 01:23:55.180 --> 01:24:02.300 to, uh, I thought this was rewarding, fantastic, enlightening. Um, yeah, I'm a, I'm a big fan of yours, 01:24:02.300 --> 01:24:07.340 by the way, Mark, I meant to say that earlier. I haven't watched enough of your stuff yet to, to, 01:24:08.300 --> 01:24:15.900 uh, to, to, to even, I've watched maybe 2% of it and it's been great. So, yeah. 01:24:16.700 --> 01:24:19.180 Well, I heard it'll help improve your night's sleep as well. 01:24:21.100 --> 01:24:26.380 All right. So it's dual, it's multi, uh, it has value on multiple fronts, but I'm looking forward 01:24:26.380 --> 01:24:32.380 to more, more discussions and, um, uh, I mean, you provided wealth of knowledge before regular 01:24:32.460 --> 01:24:38.700 guy. Um, but, uh, this is still, uh, the early days, I believe. So thank you. And I'm sure the audience 01:24:38.700 --> 01:24:44.780 has enjoyed this as well. Sure. All right. Looking forward to the next time, sir. All right. Thank 01:24:44.780 --> 01:24:52.460 you very much. Okay. Take care. Mark, thank you very much for joining me. I'm sorry that I blew 01:24:52.460 --> 01:24:58.300 the three o'clock star time. That was a little bit, uh, family ball dropping there. I apologize for 01:24:58.300 --> 01:25:03.580 that. That's okay. That's okay. That's, uh, will you be doing a show this evening? 01:25:03.580 --> 01:25:10.300 You're eight o'clock Sunday night. Uh, yes, I'd like to. Okay. Um, otherwise I won't be able to fall 01:25:10.300 --> 01:25:19.020 asleep. Um, you can watch the replay and I hope you get every, each night of the week. Um, 01:25:19.020 --> 01:25:25.820 boy, I'd say what I used to have hours to dedicate each day, but it's very difficult. 01:25:25.820 --> 01:25:30.300 I wanted to ask you one more thing. I realized I haven't done this yet. I had it on my schedule 01:25:30.300 --> 01:25:39.580 already. Is there any way that I can book you for Tuesday night? Um, of course, after eight, 01:25:39.580 --> 01:25:44.220 preferably after eight. Okay. Perfect. We'll call it after eight. That's great. I'm glad I got 01:25:44.220 --> 01:25:50.460 to ask you that. Anything in particular to prepare for? Um, I'll send you an email about it. I've 01:25:50.460 --> 01:25:56.460 got a little tiny plan. Um, okay. Yeah. Okay. Sounds excellent. Thank you very much for joining 01:25:56.460 --> 01:26:00.380 me, Mark. I appreciate it. I'm so happy I finally got to introduce you to regular guy. I know you 01:26:00.380 --> 01:26:07.340 know his real name, but it's really nice to finally make it official. Um, and, uh, I look forward to 01:26:07.340 --> 01:26:12.620 talking to you on Tuesday. Please stay in touch. We'll do keep up the great work. I appreciate it. 01:26:12.620 --> 01:26:20.460 Bye. Bye, Mark. All right, guys. Um, thanks very much for adding me to your afternoon. 01:26:21.260 --> 01:26:25.580 Um, this has been Giga Home Biological, a high resistance low noise information stream brought 01:26:25.580 --> 01:26:32.860 to you by a biologist. My guess was the regular guy and Mark Koolack of Usatonic Live. Um, you can 01:26:32.860 --> 01:26:41.180 find Mark Koolack on YouTube and you can also find him, um, at usatonicits.com. 01:26:42.060 --> 01:26:48.220 Uh, I can't stress enough how his archive is probably the best archive out there when it comes 01:26:48.220 --> 01:26:57.980 to what's going on and how things are happening. Um, this has been another Scooby-Doo presentation, 01:26:58.060 --> 01:27:05.580 like Giga Home Biological, but actually not because we're now looking at finally getting the guts 01:27:05.580 --> 01:27:11.900 to talk about the legal aspects of this. And now I think we have an additional sort of 01:27:12.540 --> 01:27:18.620 wood on the fire now with regard to the antibody patent paradox. I think Mark and I are both 01:27:18.620 --> 01:27:26.460 really interested in opening the lid on that thing and looking inside. Um, and I think, uh, now 01:27:27.020 --> 01:27:32.940 we're kind of ready to do it. So look forward to the coming weeks. Mark and I are going to continue 01:27:32.940 --> 01:27:39.180 to challenge each other to stream more often and with better content. And I'm going to keep challenging 01:27:39.180 --> 01:27:47.020 myself to, uh, show up every day as well. So keep the pressure on, steady pressure is what's working. 01:27:47.020 --> 01:27:51.660 Thank you very much for joining me. Make sure you share the stream more than anything else. 01:27:51.660 --> 01:27:58.460 Please share it, tweet it, Facebook and whatever. Um, that's how this works. And please support Mark 01:27:58.460 --> 01:28:01.100 if you can. Thanks very much for joining me.