[Kim Iversen]: Hello and welcome to the Kim Iverson Show.
[Kim Iversen]: Thank you so much for being here on our new Showtime, 2 p.m.
[Kim Iversen]: Pacific, 5 p.m.
[Kim Iversen]: Eastern.
[Kim Iversen]: Those of you who are new, there's a lot of new viewers because we changed time slots.
[Kim Iversen]: Those of you who are new, welcome to the show.
[Kim Iversen]: This is a show for independent-minded people who do not stick to one side or tribe or narrative.
[Kim Iversen]: Instead, we like to assess each individual issue and politician and subject independently from an independent lens every single time and sometimes
[Kim Iversen]: we agree with people, sometimes we disagree with them, and that's okay.
[Kim Iversen]: That's part of it.
[Kim Iversen]: We're not partisan here on the Kim Iverson Show.
[Kim Iversen]: All right, we do have a really interesting guest for you tonight.
[Kim Iversen]: Jonathan J. Couey was a scientific advisor to Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
[Kim Iversen]: for his best-selling book, The Wuhan Cover-Up.
[Kim Iversen]: Maybe you read it.
[Kim Iversen]: But in December of 2023, he was fired.
[Kim Iversen]: Why?
[Kim Iversen]: Now, Jay says, as he was researching, it became clear to him that the entire premise of the lab leak theory was wrong.
[Kim Iversen]: Now, he's not one that then thinks, oh, no, it came from a woman eating a bat in a Wuhan wet market.
[Kim Iversen]: That's not what he thinks.
[Kim Iversen]: What was wrong about the lab leak theory?
[Kim Iversen]: It's very interesting, and tonight he's here to tell us.
[Kim Iversen]: But before we hear the science behind what could change the way we look at the pandemic forever, let's get to our sponsors.
[Kim Iversen]: Did you know that most of the major wineries in the country are completely in the tank for the left?
[Kim Iversen]: About five years ago, Paul Johnson, a second-generation vinter, wanted to build a patriotic wine brand that would change the conversation around millions of dinner tables and created Republican Red Winery.
[Kim Iversen]: And since then, his premium American wines have been a fan favorite, like the 4547 Pinot Noir, the Drain the Swamp Chardonnay, and their Golden Age Sparkling Wine.
[Kim Iversen]: And right now, you can try their most popular wines when you purchase their Patriot Starter Pack.
[Kim Iversen]: This is a collection of their four most popular wines grown and bottled right here in America.
[Kim Iversen]: So just go to RepublicanRed.com, so RepublicanRed.com, and enjoy $5 off plus free shipping when you use offer code Kim on your Patriot Starter Pack, or use the QR code that you see there on the screen, and it just takes you right there.
[Kim Iversen]: So whether you're a wine enthusiast or just a devoted Patriot, their Starter Pack sparks meaningful conversations and unites us in our shared values.
[Kim Iversen]: It is perfect for your next gathering or as a gift.
[Kim Iversen]: Go to RepublicanRed.com today, grab your Patriot Starter Pack, plus get $5 off and free shipping when you use that code, Kim.
[Kim Iversen]: And I have to say, I've tried these wines.
[Kim Iversen]: They are excellent.
[Kim Iversen]: So this is not just some gimmick, you know, with cool labels and a cool name, Republican Red.
[Kim Iversen]: This is actually really delicious wine.
[Kim Iversen]: And when you bring it to your next gathering, it definitely will spark a conversation and hopefully a really good one.
[Kim Iversen]: Plus, you'll have some great wine and everybody has better conversations over wine.
[Kim Iversen]: So once again, RepublicanRed.com, offer code Kim.
[Kim Iversen]: Are you a yo-yo dieter?
[Kim Iversen]: You diet, you lose weight, but then you gain it all back plus a few extra pounds.
[Kim Iversen]: Then later you lose it and regain it again and again.
[Kim Iversen]: Studies show yo-yo dieting can increase your risk of heart attack, a stroke, type 2 diabetes, and other health problems.
[Kim Iversen]: Breaking free of your yo-yo diet pattern is a main reason doctors created Lean.
[Kim Iversen]: Lean is a supplement, not an injection, and you don't need a prescription.
[Kim Iversen]: The science behind lean is impressive.
[Kim Iversen]: It studied natural ingredients target weight loss in three powerful ways.
[Kim Iversen]: Lean helps maintain healthy blood sugar, it helps control appetite and cravings, and it helps burn fat by converting fat into energy.
[Kim Iversen]: So listen, if you're tired of losing weight and gaining it back, and if you want to lose meaningful weight at a healthy pace,
[Kim Iversen]: Lean was created for you.
[Kim Iversen]: So let me get you started with 20% off when you enter Kim20 at TakeLean.com.
[Kim Iversen]: That is code Kim20 at TakeLean.com.
[Kim Iversen]: Jonathan J. Couey, former scientific advisor to Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
[Kim Iversen]: for the best-selling book, The Wuhan Cover-Up, says the entire premise of the lab leak theory was wrong.
[Kim Iversen]: What was wrong about it?
[Kim Iversen]: He's here to tell us.
[Kim Iversen]: Jonathan, welcome to the show.
[Kim Iversen]: Thank you so much for being here.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Wow, thank you very much for having me here.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: I'm actually still shocked that this is happening.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: I'm excited.
[Kim Iversen]: Well, tell us about your background first.
[Kim Iversen]: Give us your academic background, your expertise.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: I'm very short through the corner.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Um, I was chasing tenure for about 15 years as a neurobiologist, which basically meant I was doing mouse experiments and occasionally helping with rat or monkey experiments.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Um, I was a microscope jockey.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Um, and I was really trying to climb the ladder of any university that would have me.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And as it says, as it was at the start of the pandemic, I found myself at the university of Pittsburgh school of medicine.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And at the start of the pandemic, I found myself very interested in the idea that there was this extreme difference between some people on the internet who thought that a lab leak was not only possible, but likely, and then all these people on TV who said that a lab leak was ridiculous.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And like so many people on planet Earth, I got absolutely enthralled by this, the concept that people would cover this up and whether or not this was
[Dr. Jay Couey]: you know, happening and did we have to worry about it coming to America?
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And so I really spent January, February and March of 2020 following everyone and anyone I could to try and figure out what was happening because I thought we were witnessing something, you know, real and in real time experiencing the cover up of it.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And long story short, I ended up kind of sacrificing that career thinking that speaking out about the lab leak was important enough to yell at people in the hallways of that medical school and to tell people they were crazy for reading the New York Times.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And of course, in a university, you don't get through the hierarchy very long if you yell at the people that are above you.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And so, of course, they asked me to send in my badge and keys.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And I kind of lost that career and started
[Dr. Jay Couey]: what I thought was a crusade for the truth.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And in the end, I found myself where a lot of other people found themselves in the middle of the pandemic, just trying to understand what was going on and knowing that the truth was probably not available for free.
[Kim Iversen]: So let me understand, you were canceled twice, essentially.
[Kim Iversen]: So you were for your opinions on COVID and the virus.
[Kim Iversen]: So the first time was when you were you were working as an assistant research assistant professor at the University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine.
[Kim Iversen]: And when you were there, and this was at the beginning of the pandemic, everybody, everybody was saying LabLeak was a conspiracy theorist, right?
[Kim Iversen]: I mean, they were all this came from a bat at the Wuhan market or something like some woman ate bat soup or I'm not really sure what the theory was there.
[Kim Iversen]: But but no one was willing to look at the LabLeak.
[Kim Iversen]: And those of us that said LabLeak were censored, canceled.
[Kim Iversen]: And that's what happened to you at your at your job.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: I mean, definitely, and maybe more pertinent to the story, I even got sucked into what ended up to be some of the mainstream sort of stuff with this.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Sorry about that.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Because the group on Twitter known as Drastic actually contacted me quite early, and I helped them to get at least three of the papers that they got published in peer-reviewed journals as one of the reviewers of those papers.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: In a lot of ways, I've been connected to trying to solve the puzzle and what I thought was a legitimate way of doing it, publishing peer reviewed papers about the fear and cleavage site and reviewing papers for these researchers about the fear and cleavage site or about the other odd sequences that they found at the beginning of the pandemic.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And so I really engaged in this mystery solving exercise to the point where I genuinely felt as I was putting everything on the table for it.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And that's what
[Dr. Jay Couey]: for a long, long time made me convinced that I was right, that it was a lab leak and that we were witnessing a cover-up.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: But as you said in the intro, I've come to understand that as being the central mythology and sort of the trick that everybody was meant to fall for.
[Kim Iversen]: Okay, so just going back to...because we're definitely going to get into what you actually think happened.
[Kim Iversen]: Sure.
[Kim Iversen]: But when it comes to the lab leak, so when you were at the University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine and everybody was saying it wasn't a lab leak, what made you think it was a lab leak at that point?
[Dr. Jay Couey]: It's more a question of gut feeling at that stage, right?
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And I'm trying to be brutally honest with you here.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: As a biologist and more specifically a neurobiologist, I have a very specific set of skills and a very specific set of expertise that
[Dr. Jay Couey]: If I was really like most of my colleagues, I would essentially only know that stuff.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: But I was a kid who grew up collecting snakes and breeding rabbits and watching birds.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And so I've kind of been a biologist my whole life.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And from the very beginning of the pandemic, the whole feeling of what they were trying to give us, I knew that something needed to be paid attention to.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And so my default was to start reading.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And that's where I kind of got myself into trouble because the general feeling of the medical faculty was, is that reading any amount of papers was not going to qualify me as somebody who could speak out usefully about this stuff.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Because I'm not a virologist, I work on mouse brains, you know.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And so that attitude is something that people oftentimes use as almost a weapon to you in that scenario.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: In a university, they will beat you down about that with your own research and try to make you stay in your lane and make sure you don't encroach on them.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And you learn very well not to step on each other's toes and how to compliment each other's work and point out the shortcomings as nicely as possible.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: It's kind of like the way that they talk in Congress.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: We talk to each other that way in science.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And so speaking out about this and questioning this, I don't know how to say it any other way, but it seemed unreasonable, given what I was trying to present, the discussions I was trying to instigate, that these people were reacting this way.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And that spurred me on, and I will also admit it, this work on the internet really, really convinced me that this international group of people was figuring out, and so I got sucked in big.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: This University of Pittsburgh, in the end, said that they saw my YouTube channel.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: I had been riding a bicycle and talking about this stuff on my bike, as naively as I was.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: I had been doing that before the pandemic.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And they said that they saw my YouTube channel and that a newspaper had contacted them, and that I was not to talk about
[Dr. Jay Couey]: the pandemic with any newspaper because that wasn't my expertise.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Okay?
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Question mark.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: So that's really where this started.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And so I didn't have much of a conversation with the university.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: It was pretty much just like, you should pretty much be quiet and do your work.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And when that didn't work, they eventually just said, you know, please send in your badge and keys.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And they said, mail them in.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: They didn't say bring them in.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: But it's a long story to tell in a very short period of time, because again, it was like most of 2020, where I was still going into the university and we were all still engaged in this, trying to understand what was happening in New York City and where these numbers were coming from.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And so it took me a long, long time to awaken.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: I mean, years.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: I mean, remember, I made a journey from
[Dr. Jay Couey]: from wanting tenure to now sort of understanding my whole role as a biologist very, very differently now.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And in the end, I got involved in that whole thing just because I wanted to be a teacher.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: I apologize, I'm getting sort of off topic here, but it's hard to explain that experience now five years later, because it has been five years.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And so many things happened in between.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: It's almost hard to remember some of the things that happened at the University of Pittsburgh.
[Kim Iversen]: Yeah.
[Kim Iversen]: Okay, so I want to get into the details of how you ended up at Children's Health Defense and working with Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'
[Kim Iversen]: 's book, The Wuhan Lab, The Wuhan Cover-Up.
[Kim Iversen]: But just give us the 10 second, what do you think happened with the pandemic?
[Kim Iversen]: You say it wasn't a lab leak, so then what was it?
[Dr. Jay Couey]: No, I think the best way to summarize it would be that there was probably a biological phenomenon that they could take advantage of, and that whoever we're talking about here, the national security state, the global security state, whatever you want to call them, took advantage of it.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And the main
[Dr. Jay Couey]: The main thing that I think isn't on anybody's radar is that the population pyramid of the West, which is the total population of the pyramid over all the age groups, there was actually a really big bump in the pyramid that was moving up from all of the big families that happened after World War II.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And so people like Ted Turner have been arguing for 20 years that our countries might be bankrupt when these people stop paying taxes and start taking out of the system from healthcare.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And the discussion of the last six months of someone's life on Medicare costing a half a million dollars is not a trivial discussion if the number of people on Medicare is expected to double or triple over a few years.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And so in light of that,
[Dr. Jay Couey]: I can only describe it as a biological phenomenon.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: You could anticipate this rise in all-cause mortality and then point to it on a screen and say it was something else.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And so all you really needed to do is have a good enough scientific cover-up story for that.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And I think that's where, you know, the PCR and and death certificate fraud and financial incentives lead to a a sort of frenzy and where everybody doesn't understand what's going on, especially because there is this anticipated rise in all cause mortality that nobody's talking about, but everybody's experiencing.
[Kim Iversen]: OK, so do you think that do you think viruses exist?
[Dr. Jay Couey]: I think that there are definitely biological signals at that size scale that are composed of RNA and DNA and coded in lipid nanoparticles, sorry, lipid bilayers.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: What I'm suggesting to you is that there are particles that look like viruses, but I would argue that there's not very much biological evidence for an RNA-based virus to be able to perpetuate itself forever.
[Kim Iversen]: Well, I'm just saying in general, do you think that viruses exist in general?
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Well, I mean, there are books and everything behind me because biologists have been making observations at this size scale for decades.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And at this size scale, they can find DNA and RNA.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And there are lots of them that agree that that's virology.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: But I would suggest that there are lots of biologists that know that it's much more complicated than that.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: But those signals are there.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And so I think it's important to understand that as a academic biologist, I'm not coming to you or a former academic biologist, I'm not coming to you with a definitive set of specific answers, but I'm coming to you with the idea that the high fidelity and that's the real high specificity of all these diagnostics that they use to define the pandemic is a myth.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Essentially, the problem is,
[Dr. Jay Couey]: I wonder if I can say this succinctly enough.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: The problem is, is that PCR as a reaction, as a methodology is used ubiquitously throughout academic science for so many different things.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: It's hard to, it would be hard to list them in an hour.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And that ubiquitous use of PCR makes it very easy for all of these experts that have been trained to stay in their lane
[Dr. Jay Couey]: for all of these experts to assume that PCR is applied in a pandemic scenario in exactly the same high fidelity, you know, triple checked way that you would use it to make a nature paper to get tenure at a university.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And that's absolutely not true.
[Kim Iversen]: Okay, so I'm just trying to get to the core and then we'll get to the details, I guess.
[Kim Iversen]: Because there's a lot of different camps when it comes to the COVID pandemic.
[Kim Iversen]: Obviously, there's the mainstream narrative where there was a deadly virus.
[Kim Iversen]: I don't know, these days, maybe most people think it came from a lab now.
[Kim Iversen]: I'm not sure.
[Kim Iversen]: Maybe it's 50-50.
[Kim Iversen]: I mean, certainly in the beginning, that was like,
[Kim Iversen]: fringe conspiracy theorists think it came from a lab.
[Kim Iversen]: Everybody else thought it came from a wet market in Wuhan and it was just a naturally occurring terrible event that happened and it was killing everybody.
[Kim Iversen]: Then there was the camp that says, yes, there was this virus that spread all around and it was killing a lot of people, but it came from a lab and it was maybe accidentally, maybe it was a bioweapon.
[Kim Iversen]: We don't know, but it was definitely not natural.
[Kim Iversen]: Then there's the group that says there was no virus at all, that this didn't exist.
[Kim Iversen]: This is a very small group of people, but there are the people out there that say there was no virus.
[Kim Iversen]: And then there are those that say there was a virus, you know, and the people that say there were no, yeah, so the people that say there was no virus, they don't think it came from, obviously, a bat, nor do they think it came from a lab.
[Kim Iversen]: They just don't think there was a virus.
[Kim Iversen]: then there's the group of people that think there was a virus.
[Kim Iversen]: They don't know if it came from a bat or from a lab, and that doesn't really matter.
[Kim Iversen]: They just think that it wasn't as deadly as the media made it out to be, that there was just mass panic that was caused, and it was weaponized to get us to comply with all of these mandates.
[Kim Iversen]: And so they're not really that focused on
[Kim Iversen]: where the virus came from or anything, they're more focused on the fact that it was used to usher in this whole era of mandates and whatnot.
[Kim Iversen]: So I'm just trying, but it sounds, now what you kind of said, what it sounded to me, you're saying that there was this, and I've also heard this one, that there was just a, that every so often, a lot of people just die.
[Kim Iversen]: I mean, that's just how things work, that populations will have ebbs and flows on death rates.
[Kim Iversen]: and that this happened to be a high death rate year that wasn't really out of the norm, but they kind of used hysteria to say, oh my gosh, all these people died, and it wasn't really out of the norm.
[Kim Iversen]: It was just kind of a normal natural event that sweeps populations every so often.
[Kim Iversen]: And I've heard that theory before.
[Kim Iversen]: Haven't really dove into that one very much, but it sounds to me, because when you say natural phenomenon that occurred,
[Kim Iversen]: But then you go into this, all these old people that are sucking tons of money out of the system.
[Kim Iversen]: Are you saying that there was just a, it was just really a natural phenomenon without any, no one was attempting to kill off all these people to make sure they weren't a drain on the system?
[Kim Iversen]: Or are you saying that maybe there was a concerted effort to kill off all these people and drain the system?
[Dr. Jay Couey]: I am saying that there was a concerted effort to... think of it like this, if you could go into a hospital and turn knobs that would make 5% more people die, but no one would notice it.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: That's something that I think our ruling class would think about doing.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: If you had a known rise in old people, and you know that old people die of pneumonia, and you decide to say, well, there's something called viral pneumonia and antibiotics don't work for it, and you stuck to that line for two years, you would get the exact graph of pneumonia deaths that we had over the pandemic.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Pneumonia was under control for decades.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And then for about almost an exact two year span, we lost control of pneumonia deaths.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And then now we have them completely back under control.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And the only explanation for that is we've gone back to using antibiotics for pneumonia and gone back to using antibiotics for urinary tract infections.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: We don't starve people anymore.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: We're not giving people ventilators to stop spread.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And we're not using supplementary oxygen because somebody says their pulse ox is low.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And all of these things are things that are capable of resulting in people dying.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And if that's on the protocol, then doctors got away with it, that hospitals got away with it.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: They were kind of forced to do it.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: If they were told they were running out of ventilators, give your patient supplementary oxygen, your viewers are probably not aware.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: In fact, many of the doctors listening are probably not aware.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: that there is a pile of literature that goes back to 1980 or so that the use of pure oxygen causes a condition called ARDS, or acute respiratory distress syndrome.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And it would be very curious to find out how many people in 2020, 21, and 22 in America met supplementary oxygen at the door of hospitals in America, because any of them that did were essentially murdered, even if
[Dr. Jay Couey]: They went a variety of different ways afterwards.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Some got remdesivir, some got midazolam, some were starved, some didn't get antibiotics.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: It all starts with the acute respiratory distress syndrome that can be caused by the willy-nilly application of supplementary oxygen because my pulse ox is low after wearing a mask for four days.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And this all happened in a hospital.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: There's no severe COVID at home.
[Kim Iversen]: Right, right.
[Kim Iversen]: So are you saying you don't think that there was a...so you say that there's, you know, virus, maybe we don't fully understand that.
[Kim Iversen]: What I'm kind of gathering is what you're saying about viruses in general is that, yeah, we call it viruses, but it's a more complex science that we don't really fully understand just yet.
[Kim Iversen]: But there is some signal that something exists that they're just kind of labeling these viruses as a catch-all, perhaps, but... I would...
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Sorry to interrupt, but I got a thing here I think will make sense.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: I would challenge your viewers and yourself, if you want as a biology coach, to try and read in to bacterial phages, because bacteria communicate with one another with phages all the time.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And there's nobody, no virus person, there's no skeptic anywhere in the world, none of them will say that there are no bacteriophages.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And the vast majority of the RNA and DNA signals that are around us, that are in our microbiome, that are on our skin, are actually bacteriophages.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And they can cause bacteria to change the proteins they express, to stop and start all kinds of different parts of their life cycle.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And so it's very easy to imagine even a
[Dr. Jay Couey]: a slight adjustment to the model that everybody has in their head, where these signals are there, but they're not relevant to us.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: They're relevant to the bacteria around us.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And if somebody knew, this is the key, Kim,
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Ms.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Iverson, I apologize.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: The key to remember is that we have zero, not just a little bit, we have zero data from before 2020 that any of this signal existed.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: In other words, the same signal that the PCR pulled up in 2020 could have been there in the background for in perpetuity.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: and misconstrued as a very specific signal of a novel virus that Tony Fauci is sure that Peter Daszak isn't involved with.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And it becomes this thing where by engaging in the mystery solving exercise, everybody already accepted the premise that there was a virus.
[Kim Iversen]: Okay, so you're saying, so just going back to this, so viruses, yeah, there's signals there for viruses in general.
[Kim Iversen]: This virus, though, COVID, you're saying did not exist, that this particular one did not exist.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: I think it's very likely that it did not exist.
[Kim Iversen]: How do you explain though, like when I got COVID, I could not, and I'd never experienced this before, the lack of sense of smell and taste.
[Kim Iversen]: Like I lost that for a week and I've never experienced that before in my life.
[Kim Iversen]: And that was a common symptom of this one particular new illness that people were catching.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: I know this might not be the answer that will be fulfilling, but I would encourage you to not underestimate how powerful the force of suggestion was in 2020 and 2021, where there is something novel.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And the fact of the matter is you're an American, I'm an American, and before the pandemic, we didn't get sick.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: That was our vacation days, so we went to work when we were sick.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And when you go to work when you're sick and you lose your smell for two or three days, you don't care, you don't know because you're not even paying attention to it.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And I know because I've looked into the literature, this is a very common thing that happens with sinus infection or with respiratory infection.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: It's just not something that a lot of people reported like they did in 20... Oh my goodness, it's so weird.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And that whole declaration of it's so weird is on a background of a culture, especially in America that never admitted we were sick.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: We went to work when we were sick.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: I worked through sickness.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: I exercised through sickness.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And now suddenly during COVID, we were told to isolate, shelter in place and pay a close attention to all the things you feel.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And you never did that for your whole adult or even child, even in high school.
[Kim Iversen]: But I do, I mean, I don't think I've ever lost my sense of taste and smell like I did with COVID.
[Kim Iversen]: I mean, maybe there were times when I was ill that things didn't taste quite right, or maybe my sense of smell... Can I ask you, why do you call it COVID?
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Because you also tested positive for something, or you just think it was COVID?
[Kim Iversen]: Well, I mean, I tested positive for COVID, I mean, but that's, but I was always skeptical of the test.
[Kim Iversen]: So, I mean, that, you know, I know that the tests were, you know, a lot of people tested positive that weren't or negative that were, whatever, I guess, but I, but I, I did get sick, um, and I did lose my sense of taste and smell.
[Kim Iversen]: And that was really bizarre.
[Kim Iversen]: I mean, it was a really bizarre experience.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Yep.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: I mean, my wife had that happen to her as well.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: I know lots of people who have, um,
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And so I don't think we can discount it, but I will just repeat again that there's a long history of it in the literature.
[Kim Iversen]: Yeah, so I mean, I understand that it's possible.
[Kim Iversen]: I mean, I hear what you're saying, and so I think it's possible that there were previous times that I experienced it, but because no one was talking about it, I didn't notice it, really.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Like, it wasn't as... Well, maybe you're a pretty healthy person and only had a really hard flu, like, twice in your life.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: That's also very possible.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: A lot of us are that healthy.
[Kim Iversen]: Right, right.
[Kim Iversen]: Well, I'm getting older, so I mean, things are bound to be worse than when I was young.
[Kim Iversen]: Okay, so now let's get to the book, the Wuhan cover-up, and working with Children's Health Defense and Robert F. Kennedy Jr., and what you researched, and as you were researching, how you came to this conclusion that this whole thing just didn't even exist.
[Kim Iversen]: And it was just, I guess, mass formation, mass psychosis.
[Kim Iversen]: We all just were like, whoa, we're all sick.
[Kim Iversen]: We're all getting sick.
[Kim Iversen]: Something's going around, and it's killing all of us.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And it was more of a... Remember, as united they were about Build Back Better, they were united about the novel virus.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: They were united about COVID.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: So that spell cannot be underestimated.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: It can't.
[Kim Iversen]: Yeah, you're right.
[Kim Iversen]: I mean, in the winter and during the year, we all get sick.
[Kim Iversen]: I mean, I get sick.
[Kim Iversen]: I was just recently sick and I never tested for COVID or thought it was COVID.
[Kim Iversen]: Now we're in a different frame five years later where people get sick and nobody's running away from sick people anymore.
[Kim Iversen]: And we're not sheltering in place and doing all of that.
[Kim Iversen]: And so, yeah, maybe if they would have said, oh, there's a new virus now and you're all getting it, maybe we'd all be
[Kim Iversen]: Because I get sick, then, you know, recently my niece was sick, my nephew was sick, my sister was sick, right?
[Kim Iversen]: Like a lot of people around me have been sick over the last month, but I'm not calling it a name, right?
[Kim Iversen]: It's just, oh, you're sick.
[Kim Iversen]: So if we call it a name, if we label it, I understand how that would then, you know, suddenly everyone's like, everybody's getting this one thing.
[Kim Iversen]: When in reality, people are getting sick around us all the time.
[Kim Iversen]: And we just call it, oh, you're sick.
[Kim Iversen]: Oh, I see.
[Kim Iversen]: Okay.
[Kim Iversen]: Right.
[Kim Iversen]: So how did you get contacted to help with the research for the Wuhan coverup?
[Dr. Jay Couey]: I'm not sure how I should explain it other than to say that in April of 2022, I got a phone call from a guy's voice who I recognized, and he said that he had seen my podcast and that he wanted to help somehow.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And that in about a month turned into being a consultant for what now turned out to be the Wuhan coverup book.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And so I worked for him for about a year and two months or so.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And then after the book was published, CHD hired me as a staff scientist until the end of 23.
[Kim Iversen]: And why were you fired?
[Dr. Jay Couey]: I was told that it was because, so just preview the fact that I did this podcast or whatever you call broadcasting nowadays.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: I've been doing it consistently since I lost my job at the University of Pittsburgh and it's evolved into something where I do a little journal club and whatever.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And so that's what Robert F. Kennedy Jr., that's supposedly how he found me.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: So I continued to do that while I was working on the book and I continued to do it while I was working at CHD.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: But Children's Health Defense ended up having a couple problems with some of the things that I said on my stream and I was reprimanded a couple times, but I just kept going because I was defending CHD, I thought, and arguing for what I thought needed to be argued for.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And when I said some critical words of a gentleman by the name of Robert Malone, then Mary Holland and Brian Hooker let me go.
[Kim Iversen]: Because you criticized Dr. Robert Malone?
[Kim Iversen]: Correct.
[Kim Iversen]: What did you say about him?
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Well, actually, he had tweeted on that day or the day before that Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: was not a very good candidate for president because he wasn't a good manager.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And he said that his exhibit A or exhibit one was CHD.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: So I went on my stream and said, that's kind of odd because I just saw
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Robert Malone at, I mean, I know Robert Malone, they publish his books.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Like, that seems weird.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: I think he's even friends with Meryl Ness.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: So I said, it's kind of strange that he would take such a dig at Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And that was the five minutes that they said was unacceptable.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: They published his books, so it's kind of, you know, I'm not selling his books if I critique him, I guess.
[Kim Iversen]: I guess, but he's not selling Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'
[Kim Iversen]: 's books if he's critiquing him.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Well, I mean, he's on the back of the book, so I guess he's selling Robert's book.
[Kim Iversen]: Yeah.
[Kim Iversen]: Okay.
[Kim Iversen]: So they got rid of you because of your criticism of Dr. Robert Malone.
[Kim Iversen]: It wasn't for your stance on COVID.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: No, that's correct.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: No, I mean, my stance on COVID was actually something that they tried pretty hard to ignore.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: I was given other tasks.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Having the podcast that I did, when I started working for CHD, I was doing everything offline and working on other things that, in retrospect, I don't think were very good uses of my skill set.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Let's say it like that.
[Kim Iversen]: Okay, so as you were researching, you started to bring up some objections to the premise that this came from a lab.
[Kim Iversen]: But that's the book, right?
[Kim Iversen]: The book is the Wuhan cover-up, so it's about how the virus actually came from a lab.
[Kim Iversen]: What was it about the research?
[Kim Iversen]: So kind of get us to this point now.
[Kim Iversen]: So we're all thinking it's a lab leak.
[Kim Iversen]: Yep.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Including me.
[Kim Iversen]: Including you at this point.
[Kim Iversen]: How did you get to the point where you're like, wait a minute, this wasn't actually a lab leak, that this whole thing just wasn't a thing?
[Kim Iversen]: Like, share with us the science, I guess.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: So for three years I've been chewing on the idea that this couldn't be true.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And it was just honestly a gut feeling for a long time as a biologist, I didn't understand how this could be true.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And a certain light went on when Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: asked me to read up on and explain to him, if I could, what infectious clones were.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Inflectious clones is a term to describe the synthetic DNA or RNA that is used in virology experiments.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Let me just explain very briefly that there are thousands of virology papers, many of which say that they collect virus in the wild and that they find it and sequence it.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: But you will find a very consistent theme, especially in RNA virology, where what actually happens in every paper is that they say they find a sequence.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: but the sequence cannot be grown.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: So they need to use a synthetic DNA molecule copy of it to make lots and lots and lots and lots of RNA, and then they start from there and call that virology.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Now that explanation probably will only make sense to more sophisticated biologists, but let me suffice it to say that
[Dr. Jay Couey]: This question that was actually in the back of my head for a long time, asked to me by Robert F. Kennedy Jr., led me to write him an email and say, I think you actually spurred me to figure it out.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: RNA can't go around the world by itself.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: That's the reason why a zoonosis, if it happens, it happens to the people that go into the Batcave.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: It doesn't happen to all the people on the train and all the people everywhere and everywhere because
[Dr. Jay Couey]: If I flip it around for you as a person who's not a specialist biologist, everything that you have come to be told in biology class about evolution is based on DNA.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And the magic of DNA is that it's double-stranded, which makes it chemically super stable, and it makes it a double copy of itself, that if there's an error, it doesn't go together and so it can be repaired.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: This magic little cartoon is the basis for all biology departments everywhere around, and it's the basis for the Human Genome Project and everything.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Now the interesting thing about RNA virology and Peter Daszak's work and Ralph Baric's work is that the whole premise that their viruses are dangerous to the whole world is that they can do something that even DNA can't do.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: If you put DNA in a mud puddle, and it doesn't matter what sequence you put in that mud puddle, you will never find it all over the world in five years.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: But for some reason, they think that they can tell us a story where RNA, a single-stranded molecule, not a double-stranded one, not one that's chemically stable, not one that can proofread itself, but a single-stranded RNA molecule in a mud puddle can also do that if it's got the right furin cleavage site in it.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And that is the premise of an RNA pandemic.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And it is not supported by the entire biological literature, which can only function if they take that RNA sequence and make a synthetic version of it.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: They can't grow them.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And all of this idea that they're finding viruses, even Shang-Chi Lee and Ralph Baric, when they find a coronavirus, what they are claiming to find is an incomplete sequence
[Dr. Jay Couey]: that they then reconstruct a synthetic version of and make as much as they want to such that like this much quantity, three milliliters of that DNA in water would be enough to put the sequence of a coronavirus anywhere you wanted to and it would be the hottest PCR signal you could possibly imagine because it's pure.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: I could put a drop of this on your desk and it would be hot positive for the entire Wuhan sequence for months
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And it would represent a perfect signal in any aerosol, a perfect signal in any inhalant.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And so the idea is that this, if I keep talking, the idea is that in every pharmaceutical company in the world, they have been making DNA, converting it to protein and calling it a biologic.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: It's the exact same process that they would make the RNA for the shot.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: They would make a DNA, they would grow it in a bacterial culture, they would lyse the bacteria and clean that all out, and give you the RNA that they make from that DNA.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: That's how they did it.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And that, that's not a new process, that's actually a very old process, and applying
[Dr. Jay Couey]: mRNA to a person is not new.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: It's something that we've been doing to animals like my mice for 20 years already.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And they didn't change hardly a thing.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And they told us it was an investigational vaccine.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And the bait and switch is what that is.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: They got us to argue for three years about the details of virology.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And is it true or not?
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Or are these no virus people, right?
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And all along they were just planning to sneak in this thing where, oh yeah, by the way, we're going to start transfecting you and you're going to accept it as a vaccine, like an even better vaccine than the old vaccines.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And that whole script was waiting.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: That's something that you can only see in five years looking backwards.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: That whole script was waiting.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: That's why everything lines up like this from the moment that they were arguing about it until right now when people on the left are also going, oh, wait a minute, maybe a lab leak's not so crazy after all.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: That's the magic of a national security operation.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: It's not out of control.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: It is completely under control and a limited spectrum of debate is how we're controlled.
[Kim Iversen]: Has there ever been an RNA pandemic prior to this?
[Kim Iversen]: Or what illnesses would be RNA?
[Dr. Jay Couey]: I don't think so, no.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: I think what another little piece of the puzzle that I could add, and maybe we'll only sink in later, is that there's a whole field of biology that studies the signaling between tissues.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: inside of your body.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And tissues inside of your body signal with each other using small little particles that are indistinguishable under a microscope from viruses that carry RNA in them.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: and they send signals to other cells.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: One example in the brain is a protein called ARC.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: It's RNA is sent from neuron to neuron so that neurons that are activated are signaling to neurons around them to enable them to also respond.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And that is actually just a virus in your brain, but it's an endogenous one.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And that is also part of this background that they claim to be able to use a PCR test and tell you whether you have COVID or not.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And it is an extraordinary claim.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: As a biologist, the more that this sinks into my head, the more is this is the central thing that we need to teach our children is that.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: that there is a background noise, if you think of it like a radio signal, the noise is so loud.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And they're claiming that with very crappy radio technology, we can pull out signals from there and listen to how good they are.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And that is just absurd.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: They really pulled a fast one on us.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And the terrible part about this is Kim, is that PCR has now become,
[Dr. Jay Couey]: essentially a medical diagnostic standard.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: They can use PCR to essentially find anything, and that is a very dangerous place for us to be, because the FDA should have probably regulated each one of those things as a separate medical device, and decided whether or not it showed the signal that it showed.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: But instead, because we're in a state of emergency, and now we have the FDA employees all quitting, there's no
[Dr. Jay Couey]: We're not going to look back and try to figure out how badly we were fooled in 2020 unless we force them to.
[Kim Iversen]: Okay, so trying to understand... I'm coming out off topic and I apologize.
[Kim Iversen]: No, I'm not a scientist, but I try to understand as best as I can.
[Kim Iversen]: So, COVID-19, which was what they called SARS-CoV-2 virus, what you're saying is this is a single-stranded RNA virus.
[Kim Iversen]: And that would be unstable because it would easily break down.
[Kim Iversen]: Like you were saying, the mud puddle, it shouldn't be able to just spread all around the world like this.
[Kim Iversen]: It's just not stable enough to do that.
[Kim Iversen]: It would maybe spread a little, but then it would no longer spread because it would break down or it would more for what?
[Dr. Jay Couey]: There's a thousand different reasons.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: The one being that there are RNAses, there are enzymes to degrade RNA on your skin, in your sweat, because we don't like RNA to be around.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: That's the reason why everybody that works in an academic biology lab has to wear gloves all the time, and why they wipe the conners down with alcohol is to get rid of those enzymes that are there to degrade RNA all the time.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: RNA also, remember, if this is going to work, what has to happen?
[Dr. Jay Couey]: That RNA molecule with all the magic insertions and urine cleavage site or whatever other nonsense they tell you has to copy itself without making any catastrophic errors for how many copies in order to get into everybody's lungs and all the white-tailed deer in North America.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: I mean, we can't even estimate how many copies that is.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And the idea
[Dr. Jay Couey]: that an RNA, and a DNA couldn't even do it, but an RNA molecule could be copied with such high fidelity that we could watch a base-by-base change in a phylogenetic tree over the course of 5 years with 18,000 sequences.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: This is the most ridiculous mythology, which it's just not based in reality, it's based in a theater,
[Dr. Jay Couey]: that is telling us a story about a high-fidelity molecular biology signal on the background that no one's ever bothered to estimate.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: For example, I'm just pulling things out of my head here.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: You can put a detector of airborne viruses on a mountain in Spain and they collect billions of viral particles every month in the air.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: These are particles with DNA and RNA.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: These are particles that could potentially be PCR positive signals if you used a non-specific PCR test, a PCR test that was just, you know, do you have a car in your garage?
[Dr. Jay Couey]: It's that specific.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Well, I guess if you're sick and you have a car in your garage, you must have COVID.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And that's really what we're dealing with, because unlike cars that everybody knows is there, this background signal that's on your counter and in your lungs and in every sample, this background signal is inestimably complex.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: It's not a, oh, there was something there, or there isn't anything there in 2019, and now it's everywhere in 2020, but that's the cornerstone premise of what they say happened.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: That's how they justify the entire story.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Okay, so I'm just looking this up.
[Kim Iversen]: I'm just looking this up so that I could understand a little bit better, a list of RNA viruses that are out there.
[Kim Iversen]: So some of them are like West Nile,
[Kim Iversen]: Hepatitis A, Ebola, SARS, rabies apparently is RNA.
[Kim Iversen]: So, and you're right in that these are not spread that easily.
[Kim Iversen]: You know, you have to have close contact in order to contract a lot of like, it's not like an airborne.
[Kim Iversen]: I don't think a lot of these, I think that you have to have like close contact.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: or even bodily fluid, that kind of thing.
[Kim Iversen]: Okay.
[Kim Iversen]: So you're saying that because this is an RNA, this SARS-CoV-2 they claimed was an RNA virus, an RNA just would not be able to spread like this all around the world.
[Kim Iversen]: It would have spread very differently and it would have been a lot easier to control like some of these others.
[Kim Iversen]: Because SARS-CoV-2 did not spread wildly, right?
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Yes, and I would suggest to do a different thought experiment.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Think about what would happen if they took the SARS-CoV-2 sequence.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: and they made an industrial quantity of it at any pharmaceutical company that could do it.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And they could have done it already in 2002 easily because this is really, you know, it's just standard.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: That's how you make a monoclonal antibody.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: You make a DNA, you grow it in a bacterial culture, then you lyse the culture, you take the DNA, you convert it to RNA, or you put it on a cell culture and it grows and it makes the monoclonal antibody.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Now, the reason why I'm saying that is because that's all that would be necessary for them to do any of the things that they wanted to do, the pure signal.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: If they had to drop that somewhere in China and then watch that signal spread around and maybe it makes people sick, maybe pure DNA and the exposure to it can make people, I mean, why not?
[Dr. Jay Couey]: That's one of the signals that would most likely activate our immune system.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: So they aerosolize this DNA signal, people get sick, they track it around the world, and now they've already seeded a narrative about how natural viruses can go around the world when they can't.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: It's just a DNA signal and they tracked it for a while.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And now what you need to imagine is that there's lots of ways that they could do it.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: They could do it themselves.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: They could have put this over the course of 10 years.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: They could have been putting this signal in the background and then, okay, now it's there and we're ready.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Let's start the show.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: they could have characterized the background.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: So they could have sent people like Nathan Wolf and Peter Daszak around the world to characterize that background and choose the easiest targets, the most consistent targets around the world.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And then and then PCR for those targets and claim that, look, there's a virus going around.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Sometimes it's asymptomatic.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Asymptomatic means that it's in the background.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: It doesn't mean that it's there and not making you sick.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: It means it's in the background.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And that
[Dr. Jay Couey]: That's another bait and switch that happened like that.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Everybody knew asymptomatic makes perfect sense to me.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And the doctors that said that's ridiculous, they were gone.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: That's another cornerstone of this myth that asymptomatic spread is something we have to be afraid of.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And incidentally, they're now telling us, some people are talking about how measles actually spreads asymptomatically among people that aren't fully vaccinated or whatever.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: So this is again, they're trying to seed this narrative of a mythology that both sides will solve and argue and in the end they'll accept.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And that's the danger that we do to our kids.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: We can't teach this to our kids.
[Kim Iversen]: Okay, so do you think that they spread this around with the vaccine itself?
[Dr. Jay Couey]: I think the vaccine was mostly placebo.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: From all of the work that I've ever done in my life with transfection, I've used adenovirus to transfect, or I guess that would technically be transform mouse brains, but I've also used RNA to do the same thing, which is transfection.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: One of the reasons why I think I got fired from the University of Pittsburgh was because I was trying to explain to faculty members that
[Dr. Jay Couey]: the investigational vaccines that Bill Gates was bragging about were no different than the transfections we use on our animals.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: They're just saying that the lipid nanoparticle is proprietary, but it's just new, but it's the same crap.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: They're putting soap bubbles around RNA and they're putting them in our old people?
[Dr. Jay Couey]: We're not gonna let them do that.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And the faculty at the University of Pittsburgh said, well, obviously they're not using the same thing we use on our mice or they wouldn't call it a vaccine.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And I said, but then what are, what they're doing that?
[Dr. Jay Couey]: So yeah, that's the main message now for me, is that they would have never been able to get away with this without using placebo.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Two reasons.
[Kim Iversen]: But do you think that the placebo, it wasn't purely placebo, because we do have some studies like from the Cleveland Clinic,
[Kim Iversen]: that show the more vaccinated you got, the more likely you were to get COVID.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: So put it in God's... No, I'm not saying that they were all placebo.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: I'm saying that they had to have a very significant portion of them that were placebo for a number of reasons.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: One, because then they could meet any manufacturing quota that they wanted to.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And in order to... Think about it this way.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: If they told you that you needed a mask, and it was really important for you to have a mask, but you couldn't get one,
[Dr. Jay Couey]: If they tell you that you need a shot, but you can't get one.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And so the first and most important thing in the national security operation would be able to make sure that anybody that wanted to comply for sure could comply.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And so in order to meet those manufacturing quotas, which nobody could possibly believe they were gonna get a billion doses of a new product done and ship to market without any problems, but they could easily do it if the national security state said, you know what?
[Dr. Jay Couey]: you're gonna hit two birds with one stone.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Number one, the vast majority of people will never see any side effects if we roll out placebo.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And number two, we can pay really close attention to the places we do roll out hot doses and make sure that we pay close attention to those people in Monarch.
[Kim Iversen]: So it sounds to me like you're saying this is, it's not just that it's a, it's, so you don't think it was a Wuhan lab leak, but you think it was a massive lab leak, almost.
[Kim Iversen]: I mean, it sounds like it's way bigger than just, because you're saying that somehow they got this background RNA, I guess, all around, in order for a PCR to test it?
[Dr. Jay Couey]: I think it's more likely that the PCR, I will still stick with this, that the PCR was not specific at most times.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: The PCR that they use now, the Illumina test that does like 17 different things or something, that could be very high fidelity for all I know.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: But I know from working on a couple court cases that the tests that were used in 2020 were atrocious.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And you can go EUA by EUA, most of all of those companies are absolutely out of business now.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And the reason why is because they were probably never testing for anything.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Somehow or another,
[Dr. Jay Couey]: You know, like one of the cases that I worked on in California, I kid you not, was a former porn movie maker who decided to spend a half a million dollars on four university level sequencing machines and got a contract with BGI in Canada, or I'm sorry, in China for his PCR test and was allowed to test all of the municipal employees in a town in California for a whole year.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: and then went out of business and now got three houses and all gone.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And this equipment's all gone.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And the police and the firemen were all tested for a whole year and they paid top dollar for those tests.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And those tests were a joke, like a joke.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: It took us months to even get the details of the test.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And when we got the details of the test, it was just absurd.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: I mean, and that's one example of, I think, countless in America.
[Kim Iversen]: So who would have been the person or the group or the entity that would have said, OK, we found we've we've got because if you're if you're a PCR test manufacturer, you're having to get something from somebody in order to manufacture this test.
[Kim Iversen]: You have to get some science from somebody to to so that you can make a test that's going to be surprised.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: You'd be surprised, actually, how little there is.
[Kim Iversen]: But I mean, is somebody somebody must have come around and said, OK, we've got this is what you're testing for.
[Kim Iversen]: Use you know, this is here.
[Kim Iversen]: Make a test for this to find this thing, right?
[Dr. Jay Couey]: No, actually, what you could have done was you could have gone online and chosen the end protein and you could have yourself said Kim chooses this sequence from amino acid 330 to amino acid 480.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And that's going to be our amplicon.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And we're going to design primers to amplify that amplicon.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: You could have sent this in to the FDA with no actual result, and you would have probably gotten an EUA letter, which would have allowed you to go ahead with testing.
[Kim Iversen]: It's not a problem.
[Kim Iversen]: But somewhere you had to find this amino acid sequence, right?
[Kim Iversen]: I mean, where was that?
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Who came up with, here's- Remember, I think Shengli Shi published it in February.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And that's all everybody had.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: They just went from that.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: They could pick anything they wanted to.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: From that sequence.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: It is really that malfeasance.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: I mean, that's that bad.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: I myself didn't believe it as I was going through it as the expert in that case.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: I just could not fathom that this was it.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Like, no way.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: You've got to be kidding me.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And so there has to be that really started to sink in that there had to be something.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And so this is all going on simultaneously.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And at some point I said, you know what, this can't happen.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And believe it or not, it's in this book.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: So I'm quoted six times in this book.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: The sixth quote in this book has said they wouldn't even need a virus to do this.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And I think it's important for a lot of your viewers to understand that
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Part of this trap is this argument about whether there's a virus or not.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: If there was an anticipated rise in all-cause mortality that they could sculpt using a little murder and then call it something else, that can explain everything that we see except for one thing.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: The one thing that's missing from that explanation is why did the life expectancy in America go down?
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And that's another thing that nobody will talk about, but actually it's a very simple explanation.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: The opioid crisis.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: The opioid crisis was terrible in 2020, 21, 22, 23.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And that actually hit almost no old people.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: It hit everybody be under 40.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And that decrease in life expectancy in America has been pointed to time and time again by people on the left and the right as evidence of the damage of COVID.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And this is the worst kind of malevolent lie.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And I really suggest strongly that the math is very simple.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: If you remove the anticipated rise in all-cause mortality, and you remove the absolute murder by lack of antibiotics, you remove the murder by supplementary oxygen, and you pay attention to the opioid numbers, there is no virus.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And that's the answer.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: whether or not there's virology or or RNA can make people sick or anything like that is a separate discussion because There was a signal and there was murder and that has been lied about consistently for five years now and Was set up with all of this stuff.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: I mean the one way to explain it for me and maybe you're not aware of this but Peter Daszak and Andrew Wakefield were on the same paper in the 90s
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Do you know who these two men are?
[Kim Iversen]: I know Dasik.
[Kim Iversen]: I'm trying to recall.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Andrew Wakefield is the MMR anti-vax guy from the UK.
[Kim Iversen]: Okay.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: They were on the same virology paper about measles together.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: One was the student of the other.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: That's not a coincidence that now we're supposed to believe that Peter Daszak is the arch villain and that Andrew Wakefield is one of the guys on a white horse.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: This is an extraordinary multi-decade play.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And a lot of people will say, but Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: wrote this book about Tony Fauci too, and he's skeptical of AIDS.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Well, there's a lot of gray area there too.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: There is a lot of narrative control there too.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: You might even look at HIV and AIDS as being a test run in the sense of, you know, most Americans didn't pay attention because it was a gay thing.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And in reality now, a lot of the same tricks, and I know you've heard this before, a lot of the same tricks were basically done for COVID.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: I mean, some people always point to the almost,
[Dr. Jay Couey]: eerily ironic thing that happened when Tony Fauci was sitting on the couch and said Remdesivir has shown really great results.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And it was really creepy that sitting right next to him is the scarf lady, what's her name again?
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Shoot, darn it.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Yes, Deborah Birx.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And she of course was sitting right next to him when he said that AZT was gonna rescue the HIV sufferers.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: So this is a really,
[Dr. Jay Couey]: It's a tough pill to swallow as an American.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: I don't have anything else.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: My mom's Filipino and my dad's a tall white guy from Wisconsin.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: I'm an American, American, American.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And I want my kids to inherit a country that I grew up in where homecoming mattered and high school football matters.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And I just feel like this train is really careening out of control because
[Dr. Jay Couey]: We've been riled up.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: The right in America has really been almost hijacked by this health freedom movement that I don't think is what it says it is.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And I'm frightened by it.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: I wanna maybe just say something very clearly here.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Have you heard the bear story about Robert F. Kennedy?
[Dr. Jay Couey]: What in your feeling, what does that really tell you about him as a guy?
[Dr. Jay Couey]: That was when he was 55 years old.
[Kim Iversen]: Let me understand the story.
[Kim Iversen]: The story was that he was driving around and he saw a dead bear, and didn't he just pick up the dead bear?
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Yeah, and he also had a bicycle in his car, and he was with friends.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: They thought it would be funny if they put the bicycle in Central Park and the dead bear.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: What I'm trying to imply is that Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: has never lied to me, but at some point during the working of this book,
[Dr. Jay Couey]: our relationship just kind of ended, not in a negative way, but just in a no contact kind of way.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And it really had to do with, I did a podcast with him and...
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Meryl Nass and Robert Malone about the email that I sent when I said, wow, I really can explain why this didn't happen.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: I can explain how they tricked us.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: I did a podcast with them and I was really excited because actually that podcast was supposed to be an hour with me and Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: and then two days or
[Dr. Jay Couey]: maybe it was even one day before the podcast happened, he told me he was going to have a few people on the show and I would only have a few minutes.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And then I found out that it was Robert Malone and Meryl Nass and Tess Laurie of the World Council for Health and Jessica Rose.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And so they talked for most of the time and I got to explain it as fast as I could.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: I wasn't satisfied with that.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And then after that, it pretty much was over.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: I mean, at some point in time, I think
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: understood what I was saying to him and he specifically said this wasn't the book for it.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: So I got what I needed to say in the book.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: I think he sees this as kind of a historical document of what people said and what they claimed.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And so I have the feeling that...
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Robert F. Kennedy Jr., I think I said it on another interview, is kind of like the worst victim of a Truman show ever.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: I mean, ever since his father was killed, I'm sure that there have been people trying to make sure that he didn't cause any trouble and was useful to them and understood the potential that this guy would have if he turned out to be handsome and well-read and well-spoken.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: I suspect that one little guy like me in Pittsburgh is not enough to convince somebody with that depth of advisement.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And certainly some of these people have been his advisors for years and years and years.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: So whatever I could explain to him could be easily dismissed, I think.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: I have a lot of hope.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: I just don't have a lot of hope that I'm going to get through to this administration, I don't think.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: But I do have very much hope that I can get through to high school kids and to young college kids and maybe even some doctors to understand that there was a concerted effort for many, many years to pull this off.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: I don't know if you've ever seen the movie The Sting, but this was a very long con, I think.
[Kim Iversen]: Okay, so let me just, I'm going to, because it's hard to fully grasp, but I'm going to try to summarize as best as I can that you tell me.
[Kim Iversen]: You know, for dummies, I'm going to summarize for dummies.
[Kim Iversen]: So this is not the most scientific, obviously.
[Kim Iversen]: But so the thinking is, is that this was, they took advantage that there was a group or that took advantage of the fact that we were going to have a higher than normal death rate.
[Kim Iversen]: They saw the writing on the wall, the patterns, we're going to have higher than normal death rate.
[Kim Iversen]: They decided to then scare us all and say, oh, look, there's this terrible virus and you're all going to die.
[Kim Iversen]: And so everybody needs to hunker down, shut down your businesses.
[Kim Iversen]: A lot of siphoning of the wealth went right to the top during this time when they were locking us down.
[Kim Iversen]: And they never really found a virus
[Kim Iversen]: they just claimed there was one, people were getting sick, because people naturally get sick, and then when people were getting sick, and they would show up to the hospital, they weren't getting the normal treatment they would get, and that's what killed them.
[Kim Iversen]: Or they were being isolated at home, people weren't, you know, one thing that I, when I was working on the Hill, I did a radar, we called them, where it was, I think my number one radar, actually, I think it got a couple million views, and I was livid that
[Kim Iversen]: Older people in particular, the people in their 70s and 80s and 90s, I'm sure, when they got sick, their family members, normally when your older family member is sick, you go and take care of them, right?
[Kim Iversen]: You give them the chicken soup.
[Kim Iversen]: You make sure that they get their Advil or their Tylenol to keep their temperature down.
[Kim Iversen]: You make sure that they're still taking their normal meds.
[Kim Iversen]: They probably have a lot of heart medication, diabetes medication.
[Kim Iversen]: You know, they've got a regular set of meds, but they can't get up out of bed.
[Kim Iversen]: So you caretake for these people.
[Kim Iversen]: Right.
[Kim Iversen]: And that's like a pretty normal thing that families do for one another or care workers, you know, hospice care workers that come around would do this.
[Kim Iversen]: But the thing that was infuriating was that during the pandemic, I had hospice workers say that they would show up to somebody's house and they would find food at the doorstep because the family members refused to go inside when their elderly family member who was like 75 or 80 years old got sick.
[Kim Iversen]: that the young family members refused to go inside.
[Kim Iversen]: And I just, you know, when my dad got COVID,
[Kim Iversen]: I flew to Boise from Los Angeles to take care of him and I walked in and he had a temperature, he was sick, he couldn't get up out of bed.
[Kim Iversen]: And had I not shown up, he would have maybe died.
[Kim Iversen]: I mean, there was just from lack of hydration, lack of getting his normal medication that he normally takes for his heart or for all these different things, right?
[Kim Iversen]: Because when you're sick, it's hard to get up out of bed.
[Kim Iversen]: And when you're older and you've already got other ailments, it's even harder.
[Kim Iversen]: You're like an infant.
[Kim Iversen]: You need somebody to get your temperature down and get you enough fluids in your system.
[Kim Iversen]: And that wasn't happening.
[Kim Iversen]: So I do think a lot of people die just from neglect, just from sheer neglect.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: My father-in-law in the Netherlands died of a urinary tract infection.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: That's not acceptable.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And it was because they said they didn't have enough people on staff.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: But they also wouldn't let his wife in, even when, I mean, it's just, she vaccinated herself, my mother-in-law against kind of, she just did it because she had to in order to be in the hospital with Case.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And they still wouldn't let her in.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: The stories are incredible.
[Kim Iversen]: Yeah.
[Kim Iversen]: And so when the people were showing up to the hospital, what they normally would get is, you know, like a Z-Pak or something, you know, they would normally get something.
[Kim Iversen]: And because they were doing PCR testing and said, oh, you have COVID, like I know several people that were sent, they normally when they go to the hospital, I have one of my family members goes and goes to the doctor a lot and would always get a Z-Pak.
[Kim Iversen]: But this time when she went to the doctor and to the hospital with COVID, they sent her home and said, take some vitamins, I guess, and hope it goes away.
[Kim Iversen]: Like, you know, you did what you could.
[Kim Iversen]: You got vaccinated, right?
[Kim Iversen]: Well, let's just hope.
[Kim Iversen]: And that's that's the only thing.
[Kim Iversen]: I mean, they would not give her anything else for COVID like what they would normally give if she showed up and said.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Pneumonia is awful.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Dying of pneumonia is awful.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: The pain in your lungs is awful.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And people that have had pneumonia know what it feels like.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: It's fire in your lungs.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And so this is inexcusable.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: It's absolutely inexcusable.
[Kim Iversen]: So you're saying that people showed up, they did not get the normal treatment that they would for a variety of reasons.
[Kim Iversen]: One of the worst ones.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Remember, one of the worst ones, I'm sorry to interrupt you, one of the worst ones was this.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Remember how everybody had to have a pulse oximeter?
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Actually, the FLCCC told you to go to the hospital if your pulse oximeter was below 96.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Think about that.
[Kim Iversen]: And then you get to the hospital and they don't really treat you.
[Kim Iversen]: And also family members weren't doing... They gave you a supplementary oxygen.
[Kim Iversen]: Right, and then family... They gave you supplementary oxygen.
[Kim Iversen]: That would maybe, okay.
[Kim Iversen]: So you're saying that a lot of these deaths, and I could definitely, I mean, I definitely agree with this, that the deaths were from neglect or different experimental medication like remdesivir, you know, that they were giving people when they really should have just had a different treatment altogether.
[Kim Iversen]: And so they created this mass hysteria.
[Kim Iversen]: Then when people were hysterical and they went to the doctors because they got sick, they were not getting treated properly.
[Kim Iversen]: Family members weren't caring for each other like they normally would.
[Kim Iversen]: Lots of people died.
[Kim Iversen]: And then more people died because of the lockdowns.
[Kim Iversen]: Opioid crisis killed a lot of people.
[Kim Iversen]: Because really, you're right, there wasn't extreme excess death.
[Kim Iversen]: There was excess death.
[Kim Iversen]: in 2021, but it wasn't extreme.
[Kim Iversen]: You know, it wasn't like, wow, this virus came and just swept through the earth and killed a bunch of people.
[Kim Iversen]: You're right in that it was just high enough that if you just didn't treat people when they showed up to the hospital, and if you just killed off the young people with depression and opioid overdose, then you would see that number.
[Kim Iversen]: And that does correlate.
[Kim Iversen]: I can definitely see that.
[Kim Iversen]: So you're saying that they basically just did mass hysteria, they used shitty tests that weren't real, and we know the PCR testing wasn't any good.
[Kim Iversen]: And, you know, kids were able to fudge it with, like, orange juice and whatever in order to skip school, right?
[Kim Iversen]: To show that they had improvement.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And just to hear your listeners saying it already and cut them off at the pass, you know, that overcycling idea is to an academic biologist, that's ridiculous.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: But they perpetuated that narrative in the media because to a lay person, that sounds reasonable.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Oh, you pushed it too far and then you got a signal that was false.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Academic biologists know that if PCR is done right, that doesn't happen.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And so they were very easily dismissing that story in the media.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: It's like, oh, that's ridiculous.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: I know how PCR works.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: That doesn't happen.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And you saw that on Twitter with virologists.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: You saw it on Twitter with doctors.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And that also
[Dr. Jay Couey]: I assure you was in the script.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: They knew that already.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: They knew that they were going to need to have that little sidestep where, Oh, it's overcycling.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And so people can argue about that for a year and never realized that the whole test is a specific in the sense of it was there all along.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: No different, no different than if you, if you, if you could somehow make it so that nobody knew they had a car and you told them the cars were spreading everywhere.
[Kim Iversen]: I'll tell you some of the things that support your theory, and that is, first of all, event 201, right?
[Kim Iversen]: I mean, that was happening.
[Kim Iversen]: They claim it came from the Wuhan lab in October or whatever, but there's evidence that there was this virus potentially in people's systems months prior to that, which like what you said, maybe this was kind of a background thing that's always kind of been there.
[Kim Iversen]: And then they just sort of capitalized on that background thing that wasn't really, you know, it's just always kind of been there.
[Kim Iversen]: It's not that deadly, but it's the capitalizing on it.
[Kim Iversen]: Can I stop you there?
[Dr. Jay Couey]: You said event 201 and I think that's a very astute observation and it's actually part of this Scooby-Doo mystery that we were supposed to solve.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: I think you will find it, as a journalist, absolutely fascinating to go one year before
[Dr. Jay Couey]: event 201 and go to Hong Kong and find out that there was a coronavirus meeting in Hong Kong where Shengxi Li, sorry, not Shengxi Li, I said the wrong person, Li Min Yan, do you know who that is?
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Li Min Yan was this virus whistleblower that Steve Bannon brought to the scene and toured the United States saying that it was a lab leak.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Her name is Li Min Yan.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Lee Min Yan actually presented at a coronavirus conference where Kissimmee, the person that's credited with the RNA from the... Oh, now I can't remember her name and it's really bothering me.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: I know it, I have it right here.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: here, her name is Kizmekia Corbett.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: So Kizmekia Corbett, the one from the NIH who's on the Time Magazine with the two Nobel Prize winners and also Barney Graham from the Vaccine Center.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: She was presenting at a coronavirus conference next to Li Min Yan in the same seminar.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And then a year later, event 201 happens where they talk about a pandemic.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: But the virology people on both sides of the narrative shared a stage the year before that.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: It's impossible for that to be random.
[Kim Iversen]: So you've got, you know, like I mentioned, event 201, you have the fact that they've never been able to pinpoint exactly when or where this virus started.
[Kim Iversen]: They also have not been able to pinpoint exactly how, right?
[Kim Iversen]: So there's also some supporting on this in that the lab leak theory in and of itself has been problematic for me because it's being used as a
[Kim Iversen]: Like, you know, it's a political weapon against China.
[Kim Iversen]: I mean, that's that's one of my biggest beefs with it is, you know, you've got people on the left that were like, oh, it came from a bat and it's just everybody just needs to hunker down and do whatever.
[Kim Iversen]: But then people on the right were saying, no, this came from a lab and China did it.
[Kim Iversen]: The China virus, China, China, China.
[Kim Iversen]: And it was being weaponized.
[Kim Iversen]: And we know that we've we've got this thing with China.
[Kim Iversen]: We want to mean mug China and go after China and and build up our military in the you know, in the Asia-Pacific area.
[Kim Iversen]: And so then using something like this helps with that narrative, and that's one thing that's always been a red flag for me on the whole lab leak theory idea.
[Kim Iversen]: And even though I have been somebody that was more thinking...
[Kim Iversen]: which I never actually had a thought of whether it came from the lab or didn't come from the lab.
[Kim Iversen]: My position always was, we don't know, so we should research everything.
[Kim Iversen]: Why are we stopping at just, it came from a bat?
[Kim Iversen]: Where's the bat?
[Kim Iversen]: Where's the lady?
[Kim Iversen]: Where's the soup?
[Kim Iversen]: Like, if you can't show me exactly, then you have to just investigate everything.
[Kim Iversen]: Everything's up in the air.
[Kim Iversen]: And it's not just the lab in Wuhan.
[Kim Iversen]: What if it's the lab in North Carolina?
[Kim Iversen]: What if it's a lab somewhere else?
[Kim Iversen]: I mean, you gotta look everywhere.
[Kim Iversen]: You can't just have this, oh no, it's this or this.
[Kim Iversen]: No, it's all up in the air.
[Kim Iversen]: So I don't have an idea of where it came from because I don't know and we don't know.
[Kim Iversen]: And so it could come from anywhere or nowhere as you're suggesting.
[Kim Iversen]: The only thing that just causes me pause is the fact that I did get sick from COVID.
[Kim Iversen]: I mean, I never got the vaccine.
[Kim Iversen]: I never did any of that.
[Kim Iversen]: And I was a big COVID skeptic of the whole thing.
[Kim Iversen]: But I did get it, and I did lose my sense of taste and smell.
[Kim Iversen]: And I did not get the vaccine or anything like that that would have infected me unnaturally.
[Kim Iversen]: Maybe there's other ways that they could have done that.
[Kim Iversen]: So that's the only thing that makes me say, I just think there maybe was something weird that they did spread around.
[Kim Iversen]: how they spread that around, though, you know, I'm open to that one.
[Kim Iversen]: If they would have done it through a variety of different means.
[Kim Iversen]: I just don't know if I'm ready to say it was mass formation psychosis.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: No, I mean, I don't think you can characterize a
[Dr. Jay Couey]: a militarily organized group of people on social media enacting a theater as mass psychosis.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: That's not what that is.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: That's a population being victimized by a extremely well-oiled machine.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: I mean, we think of social media as some kind of, we're supposed to think of it as the town square, but these are military programs.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: They're controlling what we see and not that dissimilar from a Truman show.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: You can think that you're interacting with the people on stage,
[Dr. Jay Couey]: you're not going to change their script.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: It feels really good on social media now, though, you know, you can tweet at them and get mad at them and use emojis and everything, but that's not the real world.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And it's made it much easier for them to create this illusion that you're maybe making progress or somebody's listening to you or there's a debate happening.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And what that, to me, represents is a shift in power in the world, in the sense of
[Dr. Jay Couey]: I kind of think of it naively as American politics didn't matter to anybody but Americans 20 years ago.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: But now the show of American politics and the show of German politics can actually have influence on each other.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And that's not possible except for the magic of social media.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And so this is putting that power in a different set of hands than it was 20 years ago.
[Kim Iversen]: And I guess the only other thing that gives me a little pause, but there's, but which is that then, you know, it's not just Americans or like Bill Gates or these, it was everybody in the world was doing this to all of their populations.
[Kim Iversen]: It wasn't just the United States.
[Kim Iversen]: Russia did it.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: They all had the problem to manage.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: They all have this population pyramid problem that one of the ways they're solving it is with immigration.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: If you don't have your normal populations not making babies, then you can bring in other people who will make babies.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: They did that in the Netherlands in the 50s.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: They did it in the UK in the 80s.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: They're doing it now everywhere.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: That's how they're going to balance this population pyramid out.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: It's interesting, on my website I have the PDF available for download.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: There's a McKinsey document from January 2025 that calls the population pyramids of the West, obelisks, because they're shaped like this.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: So in 50 years, the entire economy is essentially going to collapse.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: It can't not collapse because we're not going to have the tax base and the number of people that we used to have.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: So it's just not going to work out.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: The math doesn't work out.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And so what better way to use this than as a way of creating a mythology that could govern humans for generations?
[Dr. Jay Couey]: I mean, that seems like the best opportunity ever.
[Kim Iversen]: China's got a China's got a big problem, too I mean the United States has the problem of the boomers getting old now and sucking up the resources and and they're no longer taxpayers China's got the same problem because they have the one China policy.
[Kim Iversen]: So anybody who's my age is a one child And the older groups, you know, the boomer essentially generation for China is way larger than the next generation because the next generation there was only one kid and
[Kim Iversen]: So for every two people, there's one person in China.
[Kim Iversen]: And so they do have a major population issue with their aging population as well.
[Kim Iversen]: I guess all of the major countries, Russia, the United States, China certainly all have that.
[Kim Iversen]: And of course, the West in general has that.
[Kim Iversen]: We don't really see that issue in Africa, which interestingly, they didn't go along with any of this at all.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And they didn't really have COVID, did they?
[Kim Iversen]: Right, right.
[Kim Iversen]: They didn't go along with it at all.
[Kim Iversen]: So, you know, that's very interesting, Jonathan.
[Kim Iversen]: This is very, you know, look, I know a lot of my viewers are going to watch this and say, yeah, he's absolutely right.
[Kim Iversen]: This was all just, it was all phony.
[Kim Iversen]: I mean, they just pulled one on us.
[Kim Iversen]: I think no matter what a person thinks about the origin, you know, where the virus came from, whether or not there was a virus, any of that, what we're all upset about is the fact that they use this to control us to the level that they did.
[Kim Iversen]: But I think that it adds, you know, if there really was nothing and they just.
[Kim Iversen]: fear mongered us into this.
[Kim Iversen]: You know, it is extra sinister.
[Kim Iversen]: It's extra.
[Kim Iversen]: It's, it's beyond.
[Kim Iversen]: It's, it's a major crime against humanity.
[Kim Iversen]: It was already a crime, but it becomes extraordinarily even, you know, exponentially a greater crime if they just made it up.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: I think I'm getting goosebumps because I think you get it.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Like it really is that bad.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And I'm,
[Dr. Jay Couey]: As an academic biologist, I wake up every day hoping that I'm gonna figure out I was wrong about this.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: And for five years, it just gets worse and worse.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: So I really think we got a lot of work to do, but I'm so happy that I got to talk to you about it.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: I would come back anytime for any amount of time necessary to answer any questions, online or offline.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Seriously, I wanna help anybody that wants to understand this, understand it better.
[Kim Iversen]: Well, I really appreciated this conversation.
[Kim Iversen]: It's very fascinating.
[Kim Iversen]: I went into this not knowing exactly what your idea, you know, what you thought happened during the pandemic.
[Kim Iversen]: So now I'm clear on what you, you know, I'm definitely much clearer.
[Kim Iversen]: And I know a lot of people watching this will email and they'll comment in my locals community and they'll say, this is, you know, regarding Kim, your skepticism on, you lost your sense of taste and smell.
[Kim Iversen]: They will give me an answer to that.
[Kim Iversen]: confident of it.
[Kim Iversen]: So this has just been really, really fascinating.
[Kim Iversen]: And I think more people look, we still do not know, we don't know.
[Kim Iversen]: And so we have to explore every avenue.
[Kim Iversen]: And this is an avenue we must explore.
[Kim Iversen]: Because it was very bizarre.
[Kim Iversen]: They were all in on it.
[Kim Iversen]: Every single news organization you turned on had the death ticker on the screen.
[Kim Iversen]: And you know, it was just the they were it was a concerted effort
[Kim Iversen]: The pharmaceutical companies made fortunes, the surveillance state got what they wanted.
[Kim Iversen]: I mean, there was just a lot of groups, entities, powerful entities that benefited from this.
[Kim Iversen]: And it makes sense that they would want to keep that narrative going and silence and censor any sort of idea that it was anything other than that, because they benefited so greatly.
[Kim Iversen]: So I think we all have to keep our minds very open.
[Kim Iversen]: And they do continue to benefit.
[Kim Iversen]: You're right.
[Kim Iversen]: And if we don't realize that, you know, maybe it was just them completely pulling the wool over our eyes entirely, then, you know, now what they're going to do and what my fear is for the next time is they'll say, because this time they're like, well, OK, fine.
[Kim Iversen]: We weren't able to really get them because it only infected old people, you know, not young people.
[Kim Iversen]: But maybe the next one, they'll say, OK, this one, get your kids.
[Kim Iversen]: This one goes after your children.
[Kim Iversen]: And then they're really able to scare everybody because that certainly would.
[Kim Iversen]: Jonathan, thank you so much.
[Kim Iversen]: Where can people find your podcast and hear more about your ideas and you explain this in greater detail?
[Dr. Jay Couey]: I have a very goofy name that comes from my work as a biologist.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: It's Gigaohm.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: It's G-I-G-A-O-H-M.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: It means a million ohms, maximum resistance.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: It's from the recordings I used to make.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: It's Gigaohmbiological.com.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: I'm on Twitch under that name, and I'm also on Twitter as jjCouey, all one word.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: I'm around, I so much appreciate this, I can't tell you.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: I actually wanted to drop this in earlier, but when you said your radar, I actually spent about two days trying to remake those graphics for myself, and I got so frustrated trying to make them work that I just left it off, but you really, those shows really inspired me back then, like, oh, I gotta get this list of things coming up so people can know what I'm gonna talk about and will listen to the whole thing, it was really inspiring.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: I don't know if that was your particular idea, but it's cool.
[Kim Iversen]: No, it wasn't, but I'm glad it still inspired you.
[Kim Iversen]: Thank you so much for this conversation.
[Kim Iversen]: I do have those links down below to follow you on X and also to your giga ohm biological.
[Kim Iversen]: All of that is down there.
[Kim Iversen]: Jonathan J. Couey, thank you so much for being here.
[Kim Iversen]: Really appreciate it.
[Dr. Jay Couey]: Thank you.
[Kim Iversen]: Well, I thought that was a really interesting conversation.
[Kim Iversen]: I am interested to hear from you what you thought of the conversation tonight and whether or not you think the COVID virus was actually a thing that circulated around.
[Kim Iversen]: So many of you have messaged me saying that you want me to interview someone who doesn't believe in that viruses even exist.
[Kim Iversen]: And I'm definitely interested in having that conversation.
[Kim Iversen]: So if you know of somebody who can have that conversation, an expert in that, I would love to hear from you.
[Kim Iversen]: Just join my locals.
[Kim Iversen]: And there you can message and give me some guest suggestions, or you can also tweet them at me on X, at Kim Iverson show is my X handle.
[Kim Iversen]: All right, it's time to get to some locals comments and questions.
[Kim Iversen]: If you have a, I know many of you are watching on the live stream, but it's really hard for me to read that live chat.
[Kim Iversen]: So what I do is if you join my locals community, which is a great way to support my work and my show,
[Kim Iversen]: then if you post a comment under the pinned post that I have there, I will get to your questions and your comments live on the show.
[Kim Iversen]: Not all of them all the time, because sometimes you guys write novels, but I'll do my best.
[Kim Iversen]: Let's go ahead and get started with some of the questions and comments.
[Kim Iversen]: Hockey Hippie says, there is much being made of the patch on the IDF uniform, which is an outline of greater Israel.
[Kim Iversen]: as imaged by those that put it there, as imagined by those that put it there.
[Kim Iversen]: But given their influence their government has on this side of the pond, my feeling is that at the end of the day, greater Israel will be America.
[Kim Iversen]: Yeah.
[Kim Iversen]: Feels like we're already there, right?
[Kim Iversen]: I mean, it really does.
[Kim Iversen]: It feels like with how many of them take the pilgrimage to Israel and they all go to the Wailing Wall and take their pictures and they all pledge their allegiance and clap, you know, just endlessly for Netanyahu when he comes to Congress, it really
[Kim Iversen]: It's somehow along the way since the 80s, they were able to buy off our government and have an immense amount of influence.
[Kim Iversen]: And it is just strengthened over the years.
[Kim Iversen]: So it does kind of look like we're already there.
[Kim Iversen]: It depends on what Trump does.
[Kim Iversen]: I mean, if we end up in a war with Iran, then, you know, we're totally and completely bought off.
[Kim Iversen]: If he stays measured like he did the first time he was in office, then maybe there's still hope.
[Kim Iversen]: That's what I can think of it.
[Kim Iversen]: Okay.
[Kim Iversen]: Some other locals comments.
[Kim Iversen]: And then I'm going to put a fresh one.
[Kim Iversen]: These comments, by the way, for those of you new to this, these are comments coming in from the last few days.
[Kim Iversen]: So this isn't just tonight's show.
[Kim Iversen]: This is many days worth of shows.
[Kim Iversen]: And I'm going to make a fresh pinned post right after this show.
[Kim Iversen]: And if you have any comments from this show or questions, just random, any questions that you have, just go ahead and comment on that pinned post.
[Kim Iversen]: Like I said, I'll make a fresh one when we're done here tonight.
[Kim Iversen]: Okay, Amelia, oh, sorry, this is Amel.
[Kim Iversen]: So she had asked me if I was an ENFP or an ENTP, and I said both.
[Kim Iversen]: And she says, that made me laugh.
[Kim Iversen]: I respect the innovation, but it doesn't work like that.
[Kim Iversen]: You can't be both, since ENTPs and ENFPs break things down differently.
[Kim Iversen]: for the MBTI system.
[Kim Iversen]: Yeah, but the thing, Amel, is I said both because when I test, I'm literally 50-50 on both of those.
[Kim Iversen]: I end up exactly half of the F and half of the T. So I'm half thinking, half feeling.
[Kim Iversen]: That's why you like the show.
[Kim Iversen]: So don't tell me I can't be both.
[Kim Iversen]: I'm both.
[Kim Iversen]: Chris says,
[Kim Iversen]: Chris 1507, interesting that during a DoD conference over the weekend, they said 99% of illegals on the terrorist watch list snuck across the border or were released in the community by Biden.
[Kim Iversen]: This has brought 50,000 to 100,000 murderous terrorists to our door.
[Kim Iversen]: I think previously I thought there could be a terrorist army of 200,000 within the U.S.
[Kim Iversen]: People scoffed at me on this, but I still think this number is still realistic.
[Kim Iversen]: Has this changed your opinion that drugs and not terrorists are the greatest threat to the United States?
[Kim Iversen]: I 1000% think that drugs are a much bigger threat to the United States than terrorists from the Middle East.
[Kim Iversen]: The drugs are the issue.
[Kim Iversen]: That's what's killing our kids.
[Kim Iversen]: The drugs are what is causing a massive homelessness crisis and psychological crisis in this country.
[Kim Iversen]: I'm not worried when I go outside in Los Angeles of a terrorist from the Middle East.
[Kim Iversen]: I'm worried about the druggies that I'm going to come across who might gouge my eyes out at a CVS or something.
[Kim Iversen]: I mean, that's what I'm worried about.
[Kim Iversen]: So I think realistically, most Americans are more concerned about the drugs than we are about
[Kim Iversen]: terrorists.
[Kim Iversen]: And the terrorist thing is just a military talking point because they want to continue the forever wars in the Middle East.
[Kim Iversen]: Funny enough, if we stopped the wars and if we got out of the Middle East, then the terrorism against the United States would also stop.
[Kim Iversen]: People wouldn't want to commit terrorist crimes against us if we're out of their homeland.
[Kim Iversen]: That's what... We would do the same thing.
[Kim Iversen]: I mean, I guarantee you, we would all be committing acts of terror if we were invaded by China or Russia or if the Middle Easterners came here and they literally took over our country and they were bombing us and raiding us and all of these things.
[Kim Iversen]: We would be...
[Kim Iversen]: committing acts of terror.
[Kim Iversen]: I don't think there's very many Americans who would just sit idly by and take it.
[Kim Iversen]: So if we just stop that behavior in the Middle East and if we just get out and focus on our own, then we won't have the threat of these terrorists coming in.
[Kim Iversen]: But we still have the threat of the drugs and the cartels and all of that.
[Kim Iversen]: I mean, I'm not going to trust, by the way, Chris, a Department of Defense conference.
[Kim Iversen]: It's like, oh, the Department of Defense, right?
[Kim Iversen]: Like, consider the source when they're saying, oh, 99% of the illegals on the terrorist watch list snuck in.
[Kim Iversen]: Oh, my gosh.
[Kim Iversen]: Okay, yeah, the Department of Defense.
[Kim Iversen]: Let's see here.
[Kim Iversen]: Let me get to some more questions.
[Kim Iversen]: Venticus Prime says, Kim, it seems fentanyl is in everything in the same way high fructose corn syrup is in everything.
[Kim Iversen]: Sounds like it.
[Kim Iversen]: Had it not been for everyone pointing it out over the past few years, would you be aware of all of the high fructose corn syrup in everything?
[Kim Iversen]: Like I said before, between the food, medicine, air, water, nothing's natural anymore, and it is all killing you.
[Kim Iversen]: It makes sense that the drugs would also contain cheap crap to save money for the cartels, and it's not like they got nutrition labels on them.
[Kim Iversen]: Of course, that's beside what is also probably a gateway tactic.
[Kim Iversen]: Next thing
[Kim Iversen]: To wonder is how much the cartels are invested in big pharma.
[Kim Iversen]: Yeah.
[Kim Iversen]: Right.
[Kim Iversen]: I wouldn't know that high fructose corn syrup was in everything without it being pointed out.
[Kim Iversen]: Of course, if you're a label reader, then you would know.
[Kim Iversen]: And you're right.
[Kim Iversen]: There are no labels on the drugs that people are getting the fentanyl snuck into.
[Kim Iversen]: So.
[Kim Iversen]: Again, if you have a comment or a question, you could post it under the pinned post in my Locals community.
[Kim Iversen]: It's a great way to support the show and also to interact at the end of the night show.
[Kim Iversen]: All right, let's see.
[Kim Iversen]: Who else do we have here?
[Kim Iversen]: Some of you guys are writing really, really long comments.
[Kim Iversen]: Guys, I can't get to these tonight because we're running out of time.
[Kim Iversen]: RL2235, RL2335 says, Kim, I was blown away by what Caleb Maupin said about Joe McCarthy.
[Kim Iversen]: It's so true that nothing is what it seems.
[Kim Iversen]: Maybe those old time conservatives were onto something.
[Kim Iversen]: I do remember even growing up as a liberal kind of agreeing with Pat Buchanan when he was on the McLaughlin group back in the day.
[Kim Iversen]: Okay, that's it, guys.
[Kim Iversen]: Some of these are just really long, so do me a favor.
[Kim Iversen]: I'm going to make a fresh post on Locals and keep the comments and questions to one paragraph.
[Kim Iversen]: That would be helpful.
[Kim Iversen]: All right, guys, that is it for tonight's show.
[Kim Iversen]: We do need to move on.
[Kim Iversen]: We've got a great other, you know, lots of other great shows that are that are live streaming right now.
[Kim Iversen]: So I'm going to let you guys get to that.
[Kim Iversen]: And we will be back again tomorrow with another great show 2pm Pacific, 5pm Eastern.
[Kim Iversen]: Join my locals community, ask your comments and your questions.
[Kim Iversen]: We will see you tomorrow.
[Kim Iversen]: Have a great night.
[Kim Iversen]: Thank you so much for being here.
[Kim Iversen]: Bye bye.