hey everyone I'm Dan Cohen and you're
watching uncaptured media I just
finished speaking with Jonathan j kuy a
scientist who was hired by Robert F
Kennedy Jr to help research and write
his book The Wuhan coverup now in the
middle of that process kuie had a
realization a discovery that the entire
thesis of the book was wrong and when he
brought that to Kennedy he didn't want
to hear it so what you're going to hear
now is a wide ranging discussion not
only about what what kuwi realized and
what he told to Kennedy but about
everything that happened during the co
era and why that matters now all right
Jay kui how are you good morning good
morning I'm uh I'm doing all right it's
uh it's getting warm in Pittsburgh so uh
now that it's spring suddenly uh it's
great here indeed yeah same here in DC
um it's it was like 75 yesterday it was
beautiful and uh I think maybe we've
turned the corner um so you and I have
been in touch for roughly two years
we've talked extensively we've talked
about
collaborating and I got sort of
sidetracked by um October 7th and Gaza
and and everything happening there but
you know the whole time this whole covid
question and all the implications are
just eating away at the back of my head
and I've been meaning to do an interview
with you or find a way to to collaborate
at all this time and so I'm glad we we
finally get to do it so thanks a lot hey
no problem it's uh I don't know what to
say other than the timing probably
couldn't be better at this point um so
many so many hypothetical stars have
aligned that we might have you know sat
around a campfire and said hey wouldn't
it be funny if this happened and uh now
we're here um so uh it makes more sense
almost to talk about it now and and and
be on somewhat staer ground at least in
the sense of you know
the basic players are the basic players
and so we might as well talk about it
and and it is something that's really
extraordinary when we first uh when we
first started talking I don't even think
I was ready um to to I don't even know
if I'm ready right now to explain
everything I mean it is really so
overwhelming um just to kind of accept
things the way that they are not
perceived on on TV and whatever it's
been a long journey for me because I was
I was not awake before the pandemic
except for in in certain you know
aspects I understood that you know they
might lie about Hillary Clinton's past
or they might lie about Bill Clinton or
they might lie about I don't know you
know Jeffrey Epstein or whatever I
understand that there are stories and
within stories and certain Arenas but I
guess I I underestimated how much Truth
uh Dulles told us when he said you know
the when the American people everything
that they believe is false then we will
have finally succeeded I never I never
understood the depth of that truth but I
think I I understand it better now
absolutely uh that's such a remarkable
quote and and you when you apply it to I
mean a variety of of sort of mythologies
maybe you could call them some people
you know would call scops which has you
know kind of this military implication
which is often the case but um I think
you know we can maybe call them
mythologies uh that are constructed
intentionally and the co event is one of
them and um I'll say you know for not to
not to pump you up too much Jay but um
through the sort of Journey if we can
call it that that I've had since the
earliest days of covid until now there
are very few people who I have seen I
mean myself my my understanding my
opinion my analysis has changed
drastically where I was totally caught
up in the narrative in a big way
from right and
um and there's been a a long process and
you are one of the people who I've seen
who has gone through your own sort of
process and the people that I do not
trust are the ones whose analysis has
not changed who is have has not evolved
or have evolved in the way that we are
you know basically the official
narrative evolved um and so you know
there's a lot there's a lot to say about
that but I mean I think I think it'll be
helpful for people if I kind of explain
why I reached out to you got in touch
with you in the first place so um I mean
my understanding of of Co early on was I
mean I was very focused on uh regime
change operations and at that point
uh us regime change operations against
China um the there was like a color
revolution in Hong Kong that was
happening uh in 2019 these basically
crazy riots that were backed by the US
where they were terrorizing the the
population of Hong Kong um in order to
destabilize it and at the same and there
was also the um whole weager genocide
narrative which was totally basically
fake um and so I see that
you know what's going on in China that
there's some crazy virus going around
and and they're taking it very seriously
and they're building hospitals in three
days and everyone's wearing a mask and
all these kinds of things and I'm like
wow that's pretty crazy and then I you
know start to around a little bit after
the New Year of 2020 I get I come to
understand somehow that that virus is
coming here and we are wholly unprepared
and our capitalist government does not
care about us and is going to let this
virus spread all around and kill as many
people as possible and that was kind of
like the the leftwing dissident view
that I had been taken in by and so
therefore I thought we we need to lock
down I mean they're not gonna like
they're just going to let this thing
spread um we need masks I mean look
everyone in China is wearing a mask why
are we not wearing masks the mailman is
coming around he you know I go to the
grocery store these workers are not
provided with what they
need and I was like
even before even it really hit the
mainstream narrative because I was
tapped into kind of what was happening
in China to some degree I was like you
know the sky is falling everyone and and
the media machine hadn't even really
turned on here so then finally it
happens here and you know everyone's
going to Costco and getting toilet paper
and and water and and there's this like
panic and I'm still thinking like you
know this is this is serious okay like
what what's gonna happen now um and then
the origins debate started soon after
that that was one of the big
questions and it took me I mean whatever
I'm I in some ways I'm embarrassed but
this is just it's I didn't have fluency
in any of this stuff you know I I know
about like Gaza and Israel and these
kinds of things this like like medical
biological virology thing is people
don't know about that it's it's very
hard to resist the propaganda so
um I was skeptical of the labak
narrative from very very early on as I
think a lot of leftists were because I
and they saw it as racist um that you
know there's this long history of
claiming that migrants and Asian
migrants especially bring disease into
our country and we're blaming it on them
and much more likely this is like you
know something the US may have been
involved in so I was skeptical of that
and I saw who was promoting it um very
hawkish right-wing
figures uh Senator Tom Cotton for
example um uh you know Trump ended up
promoting it and he has you know very
strong uh anti-china Bend there was all
this warmongering going on with China
and I thought that this was phony much
more likely you know well then probably
it's a natural origin so it took me I
would say I don't know a year or so to I
never became like an aggressive like
angry person telling you know who if
people didn't wear masks I wasn't going
to like denounce them or anything like
that I never became angry and aggressive
but it took me um I would say about a
year to realize there was something
really fishy going on
and
um what I started to see actually the
one one of the the first big piece for
me was the death certificate issue that
I got clued into and I saw um there was
um
a uh basically a directive that the CDC
had issued telling um medical
professionals to issue death
certificates in a completely different
way than they had ever been issued
before and only specific to this what
they claimed was a new disease covid-19
but the thing is if you are issuing a
death certificate in a specific way only
for one disease and you don't have a
standard way that you're just applying
to all of them then you're going to get
a different result it's using a
different test right so a different
measure so that started to suggest to me
that there's something seriously wrong
here I start to see there's something
funny going on with death certificates
specifically this is the alert um there
were a series of alerts that the CDC
issued and in particular if you look at
this
language um basically you have to
understand how how death death
certificates work and I spent weeks
learning that with someone who had a lot
of experience in death certificates and
what I saw in here the key thing the was
that covid-19 would be it says the
underlying cause are expected to result
in covid-19 being the underlying uh the
underlying cause of okay the rules for
coding and selection of the underlying
cause of death are expected to result in
covid-19 being the underlying cause more
often than not so this is before they
have said what these new rules wow I've
never seen before at least maybe if you
showed it to me it's been a long time
that's funny wow so right so like any
scientific minded person should
understand they are now biasing people
so they're they're creating they're
they've they're in they're stating what
their intentions are we want more
covid-19 deaths um so if you really
examine this death certificate stuff
what they did is actually flip it on its
head so normally the bottom there the
bottom there it's even better where it's
bolded covid-19 should be reported on
the death certificate for all deant
where the disease is caused or is
assumed to have caused or contributed to
death so you don't even need a test no
no it gets better yes yeah crazy oh yeah
so I mean actually I have even um uh
sorry I have to look over there to that
screen and then I can see it
very for I have uh videos of um CDC top
CDC scientists and doctors giving
um like a a seminar or like instructions
to medical professionals around the
United States um saying that yeah you
don't if you think it's covid-19 just
mark it as covid-19 fantastic I would
love to see that stuff that stuff needs
to be Revisited and archived it's not
probably archived any on any of my sites
yet I should have a few of those
archived I have it all I have it all and
then and then there was actually a
question from from a a doctor who says
okay well do you want to know you know
if we have like an initial an assessment
that yes this is covid-19 is probable do
you want us to come back when we have
confirmation of when it was Co of of
whether it was actually covid-19 if it's
confirmed or not and they said uh yeah
but you know what you don't have to do
that because we're not going to change
it it's just going to be marked as
covid-19 anyway so it doesn't really
matter they explicitly say that so so
this is a huge scandal from the top and
I began to understand uh
M you know the entire basis of like
everything i' thought about this was was
probably wrong so um I spent several
weeks on this death death certificate
thing trying to understand it and going
through um these uh these alerts that
they had put out um and then I started
to look at The Narrative of um the
origins debate at at some point I
started to look at the origin of the
narrative I'm sorry the you know what it
was is I
saw Deni ran cor's work where he
basically said uh there's no evidence of
a pandemic now there's a lot to be
discussed about that Den Rancor is a a
Canadian um scientist and uh physicist
who did a lot of the early work um
looking at the death data um and his
position was that uh there's no evidence
of a pandemic um so of a spreading virus
so um and we we'll come back to that Jay
because I know you have a lot to say
about it um now that made me think well
if if that's correct okay I want to look
at um The Narrative of of the the
origins debate and so what I started to
see is there was a concerted effort
starting in January 2020 with articles
like this this is one of the early ones
from the Washington Times saying Corona
virus
virus oh have you seen this one Jay yeah
but all more importantly the Washington
Times is the one place I was actually
quoted before they kind of quieted me
down so it's funny I like that right so
coronavirus linked to China biowarfare
program possible analyst says who is
this analyst
this analyst is um well first it's
referencing Radio free Asia the old CIA
propaganda Outlet funded by the US
government and they and they reference
Danny shoham a former Israeli military
intelligence offer officer okay so
that's pretty shady right there why is
that name that name rings a bell with me
that's not like some kind of Israeli
super soldier guy is it or uh that's the
only time I've I've heard of him and
he's linked to like uh some NATO program
that is oh there's something I got to
write that name down that's awesome wow
okay okay so so this is you know the the
basically right-wing media promoting lab
leak early on and at this point the
mainstream media is saying no no no no
no this is racist this is crazy Donald
Trump is a lunatic Steve Bannon Tom
Cotton they're crazy how could they say
that and
then I have you
have another one that you should keep in
your list is Steve Bannon the first
person that I ever found to say it on
the on the media was Steve Bannon that
that that it was a lab leak I think he
said it on January
25th okay um so yeah Bannon you know you
and I know is a key figure in this we
can talk about but so so I just want to
illustrate this Dynamic so on one hand
you have basically
NATO aligned Israeli
disinformation um claiming that this is
a lab leak from some Chinese biowarfare
program some kind of version of that
then on the other hand you have the
pointer Institute which is funded by the
National Endowment for democracy which I
knew very well is basically a CIA front
meddling arm that operates all over the
world um and funded by Google funded um
by uh uh basically the other arm of the
deep State saying that no this is not
true this is false that Danny sh Ham's
claim in the Washington Times is false
um and oh I should also say that that
the author of this uh this um Washington
Times article is Bill girz Bill girz is
Bill gz is the guy who interviewed me
really okay yeah he wrote the same
article yeah okay Bill girz um is
basically a like longtime Pentagon
official um I will uh he's again that's
me not doing my leg work but yeah wow
like longtime neoconservative with ties
to the Pentagon the CIA he actually got
fired from his position at the
Washington Free Beacon after he took um
$100,000 loan from a Hong Kong tycoon
that was arranged by The Fugitive
Chinese billionaire guo wangui who
became like miles guo right oh my gosh
dude what are you why haven't had this
conversation already wow I don't know I
don't think we ever talked in this about
about this level of detail so um and so
he was he was hailing miles guo if I'm
saying that that name right as this
anti-corruption figure and so it's
totally corrupt so this guy's this guy's
like a CIA operative who's writing this
this like total slop um and of course
miles guo ended up you know he was very
close with Steve Bannon and they went
out on a yacht and declared that they
were creating like uh they were
basically announcing like a wuo style
regime change in China um so so you
start to see this how this like whole
thing comes together you have basically
one side of the deep State um saying
that lab leak is probably what happened
is probably responsible for covid and
then you have the other side saying no
no no no no this is you know it's it's a
natural origin and neither of them will
give any conclusive claim or evidence
neither of them will ever prove it and
this is like the tip of the tip of the
iceberg in terms of the research I have
showing how this narrative was um uh
rolled out it was you know so so the so
the whole idea is that we stay um uh you
know the the question they want us to
ask is what is the origin of this virus
which is all presupposed on the idea
that there is some virus spreading
around and that we're just supposed to
accept that they don't want to talk
about if that's actually true um so I
get so and and again I have a you know
if you said on Facebook if you said that
there was a lab leak for a while you
would have been suspended but then they
lifted that suspension arbitrarily and
John Stewart and Steven colar suddenly
you know John Stewart goes on the Steven
colar show a year later and says
actually I think it is a lab leak and it
what was once a racist and right-wing um
conspiracy theory suddenly became
welcome in polite liberal society and
then it became kind of like what most
people thought um but again there was
never any definitive proof and we've
been just it's this constant drip of of
what we're told that it's you know maybe
it's natural maybe it's a lab leak we'll
never actually know to this day five
years later just what a month ago the um
the the when when Trump I think took
office uh there was a new assessment
that with low confidence that it maybe
came from a lab which again is just
total slop it's meaningless low
confidence uh some agencies think so
some agencies think don't think so it's
there's never any concrete
conclusive uh assessment nor is there
any evidence provided so so
this made me think I I'm I'm really
starting to suspect this whole thing is
fake um and I reached out to Deni like
is this even biologically possible is
this just science fiction and Denise
said you need to talk to Jay kuie and I
think I maybe watched um
like one or two of your streams or
something like that and then uh I called
you on the phone and I sat on my porch
and and explained to you who I am and we
talked for probably two hours and and
you know you kind of opened my eyes to a
whole sort of biological angle that
confirmed what I suspected and we've
been basically in touch you know on and
off since then um I've just been so
wrapped up with with Gaza and everything
happening there but um so that's why I
reached out to Jay which you know when I
did redacted the other day and they and
they asked me that and I I just kind of
gave like a really brief version but I
want to explain that in a bit more
detail so people can understand uh you
know I think when you have a big part of
getting the right answer is is having
the right question you're halfway there
and so once you figured out oh what what
is it that I'm actually trying to uh
answer then then you know where to go
but if you don't know what the right
question is you're not going to get
anywhere so that's how that's what led
me to you
Jay yeah that's uh I I think I want to
jump off from there and make uh a quick
point for everybody listening that um as
you investigated the the idea of a lab
leak or a natural virus um and it's
spreading to America you investigated it
with the tools and the Angles and the
ideas and the you know the sources that
you're used to using and so at the start
of the pandemic that's the interesting
position that I found myself in was I'm
a I was an academic biologist working at
a med school um I just started reading
what I considered to be what anybody
would read in my position the primary
literature about Corona virus so
everything on PubMed all this
peer-reviewed stuff all the baric papers
and if you read scientific literature
for a living you understand what is
being written there and essentially when
I write it when I would write a paper
now maybe your your listeners don't know
this yet but I was a neurobiologist and
that sounds like a big deal but it's
really not I worked almost exclusively
on mice all my experiments were on mice
neurons I looked at how neurons
communicate with each other and synaptic
connections yada yada yada um I felt
very comfortable reading the literature
of Corona virus and and RNA viruses and
flu viruses and infectious disease
because um as a biologist ologist I kind
of understood that you know what the
limitations of a lot of the the
methodologies are virology is not like a
bunch of magic um or or very specialized
techniques most of the techniques that
are in biology are developed somewhere
else and then brought to virology or
applied to virology and I came to figure
out very quickly that
surprisingly let's say surprisingly
little progress has been made in the
methodologies used in virology and so
once you understand one paper you
understand a lot of them and the one
consensus message that I got from the
primary literature is that viruses are
real they're everywhere and uh some of
them are more dangerous than others and
there seemed to be a very general
agreement that you could manipulate them
change them purify them culture them and
they did this all around the world all
the time and so this was edified in my
Mind by the fact that I used viruses on
my bench and I I transfected animals we
can talk about that later so I had this
sort of opposite conclusion um in the in
the mystery solving exercise instead of
coming to the conclusion that that this
must be fake I came to the conclusion
that this happens all the time and that
they're just tell talking about
something that is always going on in a
way to make it seem like it's a crisis
when it's not and I understood virology
as understanding this and so at first I
approached it very naively to my faculty
and and my friends at work you know just
kind of like but yeah but dude they've
been talking about lab leaks for for 20
years I mean it's not wouldn't be
unusual and if it did why would we worry
about it we've had exposure to these
things before like I was thinking I was
understanding it from the exact sort of
you know almost the flip of the coin of
you in the sense of not only is a lab
leak possible but that's also not
dangerous and also could be exaggerated
and that
message was met with a lot of resistance
from the people that I was solving the
mystery with um maybe this is a good
time to drop in that I got involved with
this group named drastic who most of of
whom I still don't know who they are um
and at some point we parted ways simply
because they were absolutely sure that
the origin of the virus was the most
important answer to let me let me just
say real quick I want I want I think
it's an important point to just you know
quickly explain what drastic is was or
is that it was a a Twitter group that
you got involved with of people who were
uh supposedly or tasked with solving the
lab like proving that it did come from a
lab and it and it you guys got written
up in you guys got written up
prominently in um uh you said Vanity
Fair right and then Tucker Carlon also
mentioned got it wrong
yeah definitely um he he attributed the
founding of the group to the wrong
person on Twitter it can only be one
person because that's how Twitter Works
um and then he also said that one of the
primary members was this guy Jamie metel
was never in the group which was really
a bizarre thing for him to say it for a
while I was you know like really mad
about that like Tucker Carls credit
right and Jamie Metzel is one of the
kind of maybe the most prominent liberal
opponent of the uh lab Theory or op um
you might say and he's a longtime
government official US government
official uh who is super hawkish on
China extremely hawkish on China so um
so you know his invol or his I don't
know the fact that he was said to be
involved or some the whole thing um I
mean I know you know I don't know I you
can say how you how you see it now but I
mean it sounds like you were in a way
unwittingly recruited H to promote this
narrative I mean I think to a large
extent everyone should see themselves as
unwittingly recruited to promote this
narrative on social media and if you
were really good at it you might have
been even promoted by other people um
and so a lot of this I think in
retrospect really feels like a lot of
unwitting participants you know that are
just I don't know trying try to make
ends meet trying to figure it out and
believing people and and the trick is
you know um just the vast majority of
people don't get entangled as much as I
did and maybe you know to a certain
extent with regard to Gaza you are a
person who gets more entangled than a
lot of people ever have and so you tend
to rub elbows with more of these people
who are tasked with um what I say on my
stream is sort of you know curating this
limited spectrum of debate where nobody
answers any important questions and so I
just grossly underestimated how the
pandemic would have that aspect I didn't
understand even after having read the
spars pandemic document for example
where they explicitly talk about
controlling the opinion of of of the
populace on social media had never
dawned on me that what I was
experiencing with the group drastic or
on Twitter or or or at the University of
Pittsburgh might all be some aspect of a
national security theater um now I I I I
tend to see most things through that
lens unfortunately maybe right well know
I think it's you know uh learned by
experience and
I okay so I interrupted you you were you
were basically you got involved with
drastic and then where were you where
were we going um well I mean at at some
point we should just tell everybody um
I I really uh have a pretty unblemished
record of Integrity in the sense of
exactly what you said at the beginning
of the stream you know uh you and I uh
change our opinions and we we alter our
message when necessary and presented
with facts that are contradictory to
what we thought um and through that
process um I went from being a
full-blown lab leak let me help Robert F
Kennedy Jr write a book about the lab
leak to be being somebody who understood
the biology well enough to know that
that also was a myth um and um the
circumstances as they are um this guy is
now Health and Human Services secretary
and uh the it stands that there there
are things that I apparently he's not
going to tell everybody um and not going
to say and uh I I don't know what to do
necessarily about how to move forward
with this with this knowledge but um I
am I am for sure and confident that I
could explain it to anybody in in great
detail the the biological Concepts that
edify this you know you can just forget
that there is an RNA pandemic and I
understand that that's that's hard to
explain um but uh if you can see it from
a bigger political perspective where
where you know the I mean let's just do
the do a thought exercise do you know
this um story of the Bear in Central
Park and the the bike of Robert F
Kennedy
Jr I think I it sounds familiar but I
can't remember there was a there was a
little story where apparently when
Robert F Kennedy Jr was like 50 years
old um he was riding around in a car
with some friends in New York and they
found a dead bear on the road and then
they took the Dead bear and a bicycle
that they had in their car and they put
it in the park and thought it would be a
funny joke I guess that the the bear and
the B I don't know the whole story but
it appears you know like as an it's an
anecdotal example of you know if if you
if you knew for example that this book
was not written by Robert F Kennedy Jr
but was written by like a group of like
15 people that included me would you
think the same thing and if you knew
that the fouchy book was written that
way if you knew that that I just think
we have to be aware of the fact that a
lot of the opinions a lot of the things
that that Robert F Kennedy Jr says are
are very much influenced by people
behind him and
so um I just I I thought at some point
when I joined his team that I was
joining the winning team and that I had
finally you know you know I was going to
we were going to win and that that this
was really a moment um in American
history in my mind I know it sounds
stupid now um and and and in reality I I
think what I did was I I got really
close to a how the to seeing how the the
nation is governed um and and and
learning at least in this little aspect
how um the nation is governed and so
uh it yeah I'm not sure
really how to say it any better than
that I mean I I think there are things
that Robert F Kennedy Jr won't tell you
because he's advised not to he's told
not to maybe he's been convinced that
what I said is wrong I don't know um but
I do think that I have
not been given the chance that I thought
I would get to to represent these ideas
and in fact all of the the people that
that at one point in time said that they
understood these ideas and thought they
were great are now ignoring me and it's
really it's quite terrifying from the
perspective of being a father and a
biologist and somebody who really
just just wants the truth out
um it's it's really a weird and
disturbing place to be right now but
also good I have a lot of Hope because I
I think we do know the truth um or at
least we are much closer to it than we
were a few years
ago so if we go back a little bit so you
basically were part of this group of
sleuths lab sleuths that were going to
show prove that it was a lab leak um and
you know when we talked before you told
me you get a call from Robert Kennedy
junor and instantly recognized his voice
and basically he he wanted uh he wanted
to hire you to write his his book The
Wuhan coverup right um and so Spen very
he spoke in very wide terms at first
that he just wanted to support my work
um and he wanted to find a way to to
to to help me and in the end in about a
month that turned into working as the a
part of the editorial team of that book
and that meant working for children's
self- defense I mean that's that's who
paid me I mean I I was talking to Bobby
all the time and getting sorry Robert F
Kennedy Jr and I I hate when I call him
Bobby I got I got into that habit and I
don't I don't think it's very respectful
um I I I was in a lot of Zoom meetings
with Mr Kennedy I was in in text and and
email conversations with him about
scientific stuff um you know he would
ping me if I needed to check a citation
that kind of thing it felt real and it
was real in my mind um I mean uh people
responded to my emails in minutes um I
really felt important uh and I felt well
used in the sense of as a resource I was
I was put to work um and and that made
me also you know relearn and and better
learn a lot of the things that I thought
I did on my own before meeting him and
so in a lot of way ways I'm very happy
that that obviously I'm very happy that
that happened it also provided a year
and a half of of of solid income for my
family um but yeah it's uh we're in a
remarkable place right now because we I
can I think very succinctly explain why
there was no pandemic and more
importantly I can explain a number of
possible ways that the biocurity state
could have set it up uh
and and those
those those questions are all not being
asked I mean one of the maybe the let me
let me before we go into the like how
the I I don't want to go into that at
all I didn't want to go into that I just
keep getting stuck there sure sure no no
I mean this is the I I think it's an an
important you know it's an important uh
it's the essential question but I just
want to I want the audience to
understand that in the middle of
research
writing uh for Robert F Kennedy Jr's
book The Wuhan coverup which sought to
prove or make a very strong case
that uh covid-19 came from a lab the
Wuhan lab you realize that the entire
premise of the book was false and you
went to him or you you I don't know
called email wrote in some capacity
communicated that to him and he told you
this is not the book for that um which
yeah I mean he see he explained to me
that he sees this as a historical
document he wants to wanted to record
what people said when they said
it um and so he suggested to me I feel
like that that that left it open for me
to put a quote in there you know and and
so ever after that conversation I was
trying hard to get my side of the story
in there that these that these signals
could be exaggerated that you know the
the danger could be exaggerated and that
that they wouldn't even need a virus to
pull this off and that's all in the book
but it's in the book in such a way that
you're you're
not you're not going to really see it as
the conclusion the the overwhelming
conclusion of the book is that all these
people around the world agree that not
only is it a leak but obviously it was a
leak and that the the sequence shows it
to you and that the diffuse proposal
shows it to you and a lot of these
things that I came to understand as part
of a biocurity State Theater once I
understood the biology was
impossible um but it just it this wasn't
the book for it and so in a lot of ways
um I even when the book was published
and I started working for Children's
Health defense I still had the idea that
I was going to be able to get across the
finish line that maybe I would do it as
the staff scientist of CHD working with
Brian hooker and and Mary Holland that I
would be able to work under them and
teach this biology in the right way and
help them accomplish something that they
hadn't accomplished yet um and that that
also turned out to be something that
wasn't meant to
be right I know how I got there either I
mean it's just it's a it's a difficult
thing because again we're talking about
the biology we're talking about very
short time scales and what I should be
saying to you um to try and get this
message out there is that this isn't
about viruses and biology that's the
convenient myth that our children learn
as they participate or passively or or
actively in this theater on social media
instead what your viewers should think
about is that this is a much longer time
scale operation that has to do with the
FDA has to do with medicine and public
health and the regulation of supplements
and the regulation of Ip like
intellectual property and medicine and
Pharmaceuticals and the fact of the
matter is is that the FDA plays a
central role in the regulation of safe
and effective things and so it's not for
nothing that at the start of the
pandemic they were throwing those words
around it's not for nothing that that
the the FDA was actually started by
Robert F Kennedy Jr's father it's not
for nothing that that this Legacy is
there and that this guy is now there
that's my best feeling on this that that
from a the perspective of what this is
about if this was about health then when
he announced his presidency or
presidential candidacy and and running
on making America healthy again he would
have mentioned the opioid epidemic and
he didn't and so this there's lots of
little pieces of the puzzle that started
to fall into place as I imagined him
going to lead us somewhere that he never
led us to and and would take on my
knowledge in a way that he never took it
on and I I I don't have an explanation
for it but I know for sure that he and
people around him know what I know and
probably I I think they know it's right
that's the worst part um I mean I just
you know when you're kind of trying to
characterize or understand his behavior
of when you told him this is
biologically impossible in other words
the thesis of your entire book is false
like you are you know you're putting out
a book that basically says the Earth is
flat and I've realized that the Earth is
not flat and he says well that's not the
the the place for that for this you know
that's that's we're putting if you want
to know what the real reaction was the
real reaction was after that email about
a week later I was on the defender
podcast and I was supposed to be on for
an hour this is Children Health defenses
podcast right but it's it's it's Robert
F Kennedy Jr's podcast hosted by so he's
the host um and I was supposed to be on
for an hour with him but two days before
the podcast was recorded he decided that
I only got seven minutes and that Robert
Malone Merill nass Jessica Rose and Tess
Lori would also be there to comment and
in fact Robert Malone spoke for about 45
minutes after I spoke for seven minutes
and so it felt very I was very upset I
can I can say it no other way because
it's you know it's not pretty hard for
me to do something in s minutes um and I
tried um but even the email I sent him
would have taken me longer than seven
minutes to read so for me it's it was
very frustrating but what I see in in
retrospect now um given that Mary
Holland fired me for speaking about
Robert Malone on my sub on my podcast I
have the feeling that Robert Malone
might be somebody who's very much in the
background of Robert F Kennedy Jr um in
terms of advising him in terms of
keeping him off of certain topics or
keeping certain topics in a safe realm I
don't know um but you know Children's
Health defense has published several
books of his um Robert Malone was a
reader on the Wuhan book I mean he has a
you know he's best friends with Merill
nass his his you know scientific adviser
for a long time so it's hard for me to
to forget that Robert Malone has been so
so important in this and is probably one
of the people that is that is behind
this
this I don't know what I would call it
let me say this I mean if you you know
you're listed in the Wuhan uh coverup is
the first person in the acknowledgements
um as the first person with
with with without um your expertise and
your labor the book would not have been
possible I don't know why you know if I
don't know if chose to put you there for
a reason or not but I mean if I'm if
I've hired someone a scientist biologist
to write a book and I don't have the
scientific expertise to evaluate a lot
of the claims being made which is why
I've hired that person and they come to
me and tell me uh we got it all wrong we
need to totally re-evaluate the entire
premise of the book and I say uh this
isn't the book for that let's have a
discussion and I put you with seven or
eight other people and I just give you a
few minutes to um present your case and
you know basically stick you away in the
corner that's a nice way of
saying you know we're not doing it like
it's it's a way to drown you out and try
to sort of pacify you is how I see it
one more anecdotal thing you could add
to that is that um as far as I know the
only people that were paid in the list
of experts is me everybody else was just
kind of consulted I the only one that
was paid a full-time salary for a year
and a half as that expert um all the
other paid people are listed as as
working for Children's Health defense in
the paragraph above and he could have
put me in that paragraph and it would
have been fine too um but he put me in
the expert paragraph and I am the only
one that he paid for a year and a half
to be an expert so I find that also a
little bit less than anecdotal it's more
than that right sorry a little more than
anecdotal right no that's well well so I
mean you know what you said about RFK
being you know he's he's a lawyer he's a
trained lawyer he's not dealing with
science per se he's dealing with
interests and and he's in politics so
he's dealing with interests he's dealing
with advisors so what my my feeling is
whatever is the sort of political group
or current that he is going with that is
going to be the overriding sort of
factor in what goes into those decisions
um and for him to come out in the middle
of writing this book when already there
are significant resources invested in it
uh you're just one guy and all of these
other very very important scientists are
totally on board um is that would take
integrity and what that shows to me is a
lack of integrity and I saw the same
exact lack of Integrity from Robert F
Kennedy Jr on Israel Palestine where
where he became for example very
critical of the Ukraine war um and US
involvement there when it came to and
and actually if you remember the whole
episode even with Peter Hotes I did a
piece um okay Robert F Kennedy goes on
Joe Rogan's podcast uh to talk about a
variety of things including uh the the
covid shot we can you know get into what
that actually is because you you know
have a lot to say about that of course
and Peter Hotes this this uh this doctor
who I researched extensively um he was
denouncing Robert F Kennedy Jr and Joe
Rogan for promoting anti-science they
were dangerous
antivaxers and on Joe Rogan's podcast
RFK challenges him to come on and debate
me and Peter refused I don't want to
legitimize these guys and so RFK looked
very strong and hotz looked very weak
you can see what a fraud he is there now
when it came to Israel and Gaza um after
this horrific genocide had started
following the October 7th attack
uh RFK just did exactly what Peter hotz
did he said he would debate and then he
wouldn't and you could just see that he
had no firstly he had no idea what he
was talking about and he was just doing
politics to further his career and to me
that just totally discredited him I just
saw him as a complete political figure
who had no integrity and was seeking
power um what who what was he uh on on
whose behalf was he really working who
knows I didn't know but I could just see
this guy is not who he claims to be um
just a funny anecdote here you know
Jeffrey Sachs is one of of Robert F
Kennedy Jr's best friends and actually
one of the the most frequent co-authors
of Jeffrey sax is the wife of um Peter
Hotes right and Jeffrey saaks is also a
big lab Lab leak promoter he sure is
absolutely is and what I mean I'm sorry
but you know what Jeffree Sachs is
famous for being um like uh one of the
architects of shock therapy after the
collapse of the Soviet Union where they
basically
privatized uh the former you know the
state-owned industries in the Soviet
Union um and that killed like millions
of Russians and you know former Soviets
so that is his expertise now he
apparently has has learned from that he
claims to have learned from that but why
does that make him an expert on lab leak
on virology on the you know it it
doesn't he just kind of became a face
that was out there he was put on um I
can't remember the name of like the
commission but some kind of commission
to investigate uh yeah it was the lcet
commission he was I mean that was the
that was the best show ever in 2020 like
exactly so so this is you know I think
people are starting to see this sort of
the orchestration of this narrative that
what appeared to be these dissident
figures coming from from kind of
different angles and lending their
expertise and intellectual weight and
prowess
to uh this narrative that there was no
actual scientific basis for and then
when Jay kuie an
unassuming academic biologist who got
fired from the University of Pittsburgh
for you know for basically maintaining
his
Integrity he's brought into this and he
kind of sees uh this like through his
experience he saw and experienced
firsthand this Web of Lies and and is
and unlike most he maintained his
Integrity so here he is today on this
stream with me so
um so now RFK Jr is the HHS secretary um
I think you know and this is what I said
on redacted the fact that he basically
um blew you off but really tried to
pacify you and kind of hand you off uh I
think in order to
avoid um damaging The Narrative is what
I would suspect damaging the entire
thesis of his his book which was very
important um he tried to pacify you and
then you know you eventually got fired
for as you said criticizing Robert
Malone um from Children's Health defense
and um and now you know you're doing uh
streams on your channel Giga own
biological well RFK is the is in the
Trump Administration and is a very
powerful position and as you said I mean
that's what I noticed when he uh you
know his when he didn't say anything
about the opiod crisis which you know to
to not say anything about the Public
Health crisis of our time of our era is
just incredible and then think about how
much of a Checkmate that would have been
when somebody threw the measles death at
him he could have just said well I'm
concerned about it but don't forget that
300 kids are going to die of opioids
this week like imagine if he' had just
dropped that and then continued on with
the measles vaccine discussion how
bombastic that would have been right
exactly and then he puts out this
statement um saying that actually
anti-Semitism is the Public Health
crisis that's coming from our woke
universities and I'm just like this guy
is just Faker than fake there is nothing
real about him um and I I hate to say
that because you know I I I even would
go so far as Dennis kusich had this
exact experience as his campaign manager
when he spoke out and Dennis just
dropped off like he was done that that
quick right so um yeah I mean I I
covered in
20201 I think the defeat the mandates
rally here in DC which now I see is very
much kind of a AOL opposition event um
and but RFK spoke there and I actually
really loved what he had to say he said
um he talked about tyranny and and um he
he said basically uh the technology that
governments have Now to control people's
lives um you know the Nazis didn't have
they would have dreamed of having that
you know totalitarian regimes of the
past and I actually thought that was
pretty good I I was pretty inspired by
that statement because the way that you
know social media and like so many uh uh
basically
social control for methods and forms uh
to control a population exists that
didn't exist before whether it's
tracking through your cell phones or you
know there are just so many different
ways and it's true that those did not
exist you know 70 years ago and so I was
like that guy I really liked what he
said I wish he'd run for president and
then I see you know later that he he
does and it's actually he doesn't have
any Integrity so I mean when I saw him
say that and then I see him come out as
like pro-israel I'm like I all I could
think of was Gaza when I'm when you're
talking about totalitarianism and and
living in some um uh where every freedom
and liberty has been Stripped Away from
you and you're living in a dystopia I
mean the Gaza strip is the picture of
that where you have millions of people
most of whom are children living in a
tiny bombed out ghetto surrounded by a
high-tech a series of high-tech walls
and fences with remote control machine
guns overlooking them that open fire on
People based on their gate the way that
they walk if they walk suspicious they
get open and I'm like so this guy who's
talking about tyranny in the biocurity
state is in support of that this this is
um well I would I would I would ra ask
challenge the listeners to recall that
um that Israel was the example um in my
humble opinion of what they want to do
with the rest of the world and
especially the United States they want
to have a medical system that is
completely open and and they have all
access to all the data and they want to
be able to mandate whatever they want
and that's what they did in Israel
remember they were the lab of fiser they
said that out out loud fiser executive
said that sort of laboratory for us that
Israel is exactly and and I would argue
that in the United States that's
essentially what is now happening over a
course of many years the inversion of
our sense of sovereignty in our kids to
a sense of Duty to the to the state and
what the state ow we owe the state and
that will that will include the fact
that um how can I say
it without going too deep um you know
they have wanted this data collection
for a very long time I think one of the
things that really frustrates me about
the big narratives that people talk
about on the Internet is this
depopulation idea because it's not
depopulation depopulation the population
of the Earth is going to decrease
because we aren't replacing ourselves
that's already guaranteed so they don't
need to kill us off we're g the the
population's going to go down the
question is what are they going to do
with this data and that's that's the
kind of bigger picture where the FDA is
important and the CDC and its perception
is important and health and human
services and the control of it is very
important because during this
transition out of traditional FDA
regulating safe and effective and
regulating the labels of of products
they need to transition to um what
people have been looking at as
personalized medicine and I think in a
lot of ways already Israel was probably
way ahead on that and is way ahead on
that with cancer treatments and this
kind of stuff and they're proud of it um
but it is a result of having um access
to all data um in a military fashion and
and I think that from a 30,000 foot
perspective we need to see this as a a a
repositioning of of that control in
America and so I don't know the details
of it but I do know that the play here
is not um a health freedom movement the
play is to to change or alter the way
that
we the way our Health Care system works
the way the FDA Works what power is
there or not there and so that's why I
think from the very beginning one of the
red threads that runs through this is
the FDA was in the way it's the fda's
fault the FDA stopped us from using
repurposed drugs or the FDA held back
this or did that or the other and they
let food dies in and the fda's respons
for that it's always the FDA and that
more and more starts to be something
that that every time I hear it it rings
a bell in my head again because this
history goes all the way back to when
the FDA was formed it was formed around
this this Narrative of phalidomide it
was formed around this control of of
products the regulation of products and
and there's a lot of interesting
characters in American history at that
time including Senator Keith offer who
who um if you follow and and and look at
the history of that guy and his ideas
and how he was contributing to the
formation of what is now the FDA it is a
very curious American history that I
think cannot be dismissed as independent
from this it's a continual thing I mean
if we just think of
it I used to be very naive about Robert
F Kennedy Jr but now I understand him
differently or I think I understand him
differently simply because I can now
assume that from the moment that his
father was killed there were interests
that were taking an interest in him and
grooming him and positioning him even if
it would be just to make sure he didn't
cause any trouble but more importantly I
think it would be potentially to use him
in the future and and I think ultimately
because he is the victim of probably one
of the greatest Truman shows ever done
in in American history that you know
he's even the people that he trusts are
probably not all trustworthy and so it's
just it's I don't have any explanations
I don't have any quick fixes I just know
that you know he's not a guy who writes
a lot of books and and and and trains
Falcons and and is fighting for
America's Health it's not that simple
let's say it like that yeah no I think
it's actually a pretty profound way of
uh looking at him as as like the
ultimate Truman Show and yeah since he
was a kid
been uh I don't know if I want to say
groomed but yeah taken or influenced by
all kinds of of of of
different um different people different
powerful figures this kind of thing um I
mean I would I would even challenge
people to look into the fact that you
know in 2018 when the world Mercury
project changed his name to Children's
Health defense he has often confessed on
camera that he was reluctant to take on
that cause he was happy with his
environmental work he was happy with
what he was doing he was making a lot of
progress and and this in the end is part
of the reason why I understand him
differently because one of the
Awakenings that I've had with regard to
working with Children's Health defense
and that is that I started at the
beginning of the p pmic not
understanding that what I understand now
which is essentially I don't I think
that we should be advocating for no
intramuscular injection in children and
that's a very different position than I
was in before when I started the book or
when I was talking about lab leak or
when I was riding my bicycle on YouTube
and so I'm very I want your readers to
or your listeners to understand that I'm
incredibly humble when I when I say that
I think I can I can make these arguments
I don't and I'm not the first person who
has successfully tried to make these
arguments and and then been ignored and
that's the part that also makes me feel
better about about the task at hand
because I do think it is a worthy
argument I I think that the evidence is
more than sufficient to suggest that a
lot of this stuff has been smoking
mirrors for a few decades and that's
frustrating for a lot of people um uh
but you know any it's not a message for
everyone I say this a lot now this is
actually a friend of mine's phrase but
it's not a message for everyone but it
is a message that anyone can can absorb
and and I think your message about
Zionism is very much like that it's not
a message for everyone because not
everyone's ready to hear it but if it is
anyone anyone can absorb it and then
understand that that that in a different
way and so um that's what makes me
optimistic I don't I don't think in the
end it's going to be about the adults
that voted for Donald Trump and whether
or not they figure it out it's going to
be whether our kids grow up with the the
critical thinking skills and the
skepticism and the foundational history
that they can move forward without being
enslaved by mythologies like we were um
you know we inherited a lot of this from
our parents and uh they didn't know
either yeah well let me I W to kind of
talk about
um what is the real and you I mean you
touched on this and I think it's a huge
question we could we could discuss like
at length for hours and hours but I want
to at least try to do some broad Strokes
on what is the real well okay there's
two things I want to point out um so the
question is what is the real purpose for
basically staging a pandemic and um I
want to say that you know I mean my
proof that there was no pandemic
personally what I can prove is just
looking at the way the narrative was
curated both sides all along by the
exact same um spook regime change
outlets and and propaganda organs that
I've been watching for years and it's
the evidence was just so overwhelming
that it was like I'm about n without any
of the biology that you that you present
Jay I'm like
99.99% sure this is phony um and is a
distra action and so then when I came to
you and you're like well I can you know
basically teach you the biology or you
know and you do these um these lessons
basically what are what are biology
lessons on your streams on your site
which I really you know recommend I mean
we're not going to do that here but I
recommend people go watch Jay lay out
the arguments that he's presenting in
detail because you know we're doing
again we're doing kind of broad Strokes
here um this is more conversational but
J kuie is his his character his nature
his personality is a teacher um and his
I guess training and so I really
encourage people to just go spend time
listening to these and and then listen
to it again and again and it maybe the
kind of thing that you know like for me
there's sometimes when I listen to it
and I only catch like 50% of what he's
saying but then I go to sleep and the
next day certain parts of it um
crystallize in my brain and I go back
and watch something else you know that's
the kind of thing and that's what um uh
that's an important part of I think
being a good student is um that you have
to go really learn the material for
yourself and and a teacher is kind of a
guide um so
um so the so I mean another another
thing that I think is really to
important to point out
is a lot of people think that um the
that there was a virus but it just
wasn't very deadly and it was overstated
how deadly it was and they are those
people um I think often look at you or I
or or the idea that we present that
there actually was no pandemic as like a
step too far that were crazy but if the
analogy that I like to
use is um it's as if someone yelled fire
in a crowded theater and we all agree
that that happened that it wasn't
actually well at least all the people
who call themselves Skeptics I should
say all agree that that happened that
the danger of what was supposedly there
was
overstated um and that the counter
measures imposed to stop the supposed
Fire or the supposed virus spreading all
over um were responsible for the
majority of the damage of the deaths of
the harm um and and so so the only
question if people you know say like PE
a lot of people would agree that 90% say
or 95% you know people had comorbidities
so that's what they actually died from
this is like what a lot of people say
they are very close to our position
actually the only real difference is was
there um a so most of those people
didn't actually die from covid they died
with covid that's what a lot of people
think that's what I thought for a long
time that was what the death certificate
thing showed me because I saw how they
were faking death certificates and I was
like well if you take these death
certificates where just if you just
stick covid on a death certificate
anywhere then it's a covid death um
which that's not how you calculate a
covid death even if you just take the
original way the normal way of
counting um of of writing a death
certificate and apply that to covid then
like 93% of those deaths are not from Co
just by that standard okay so the vast
majority of the Skeptics we can all
agree on that the only real difference
is well was there someone when they
shouted fire was there someone who
flicked a lighter or turned on a little
blowtorch or was there literally nothing
and they just shouted fire anyway um you
and I say there actually was no fire
that's versus someone else says there
was somebody flicked a lighter that's
the only real difference and and some
people will say well it doesn't really
matter because it wouldn't have
Justified all of those counter measures
anyway but you and I and maybe you can
you
know yeah go ahead I I would be careful
because I think there was a fire um I
think that there was a fire in the sense
of the population pyramids predicted
that there would be more all cause
mortality in the next 5 to 10 years than
there was in the past and that it was
going to almost double this is the same
reason why they think Social Security is
going to go bankrupt the reason why they
don't they can't afford Medicare in the
future is because there are a the
population pyramid has more old people
than it's ever had before and they're
living longer than they ever have before
and it costs more money to keep them
alive than it ever has before and so
this is all a contradictory problem here
and so they knew knew that there were
going to be more people in hospitals
there were knew that there were going to
be more people dying in the coming years
now the question was could they murder
enough people to make sharp enough Peaks
so that they could call it a disease
because that's what it is so in your
theater uh analogy they telling they're
telling you that the town is burning
down we have to get out of here it's a
natural thing it's like a forest fire
and other people are telling you no no
no it's because they use the wrong light
bulb in the projector and so the
projector is exploding when in reality a
couple people in the back row started a
few people on fire and then said oh my
gosh the the projector did it and in
reality the projector can't do it there
are no there's no forest fire outside
it's not coming um and only forest fires
that matter are the ones that are
started by people so again it becomes
this issue of the argument this is why I
called it the Scooby-Doo the argu arent
of and and the the debate about whether
it's natural or elab presupposes that
that an RNA can do this and it
presupposes that this phenomenon is
always happening um and that is a very
it's a very uh malevolent trap because
even as an academic biologist you can
you can start with that assumption and
read and read and read and read and
learn and learn and learn and it'll all
be based on that assumption and it'll
all confirm that assumption it'll all
seem to not challenge that assumption
and much of biology literature will
never allow you to escape because they
don't write any clues as to their own
known limitations of what they're doing
they just go along with that assumption
that this phenomenon is real over there
and so what we do in the lab kind of
recapitulates it
and you know I was aware that we do this
with with disease models in mice for
example you know there's people that
talk about autistic models of models of
autism in mice and it's just absurd
because they're not autism models
they're models
where some aspect of the disease is
recapitulated in the mice and then they
try to cure that aspect of the mouse's
behavior and call that a correlate or
call that a mouse model and and I was
aware of how that science is done in the
context of the brain I just wasn't aware
that they were doing it all over the
place especially in the in the realm of
biocurity and vaccines and and
infectious disease I just I didn't know
it until I learned
it so I guess the million-dollar
question and this is you know part of
this is I mean we've been you've been
touching on it what is the purpose of I
mean this is what you just talked about
with population pyramids and and you
know the FDA but like if you could kind
of distill
down what is the purpose because I mean
okay we saw for example the greatest
upward transfer of wealth in human
history history um we saw the growth um
of you know Silicon Valley billionaires
I think Elon musk's wealth like doubled
something like that Jeff Bezos had you
know you saw um the uh what's often
called the um controlled demolition of
our economy which I think is correct
where um countless small businesses were
forced to close down because they were
locked down and you know they could
not uh afford to close down for a period
of time whereas Amazon is perfectly
happy to or or everyone's just ordering
online there is a
transformation even worse those little
businesses didn't know that they could
apply for pandemic loans and that the
loans would have been
forgiven I think a lot of those
businesses had so much Integrity that
they didn't borrow they wouldn't borrow
they were afraid to borrow but lots of
people borrowed millions of dollars and
then it got forgiven it's remarkable I
mean you know like everything is is it's
it was a very antisocial event
everything you know when someone
delivers food now they just come to your
door and they and they leave it you know
and it's a safety thing when I go to get
gas it's you know these are like um
somehow sanitized or it's all touchfree
everything's more and more done through
your phone when you go to a restaurant
you you don't have a server come and ask
you for your order now you have a QR
code where you order so is this like
restructuring of society in so many ways
that that I think it's essential for
people to understand that you know to
ask the question what is the real yeah
well then we can start right with where
you left off with Israel as a model and
and and make no mistake about it one of
the first things that Donald Trump
announced was a half a billion dollars
for AI that would be applied to medical
records and medical data and they were
all excited about it with the guy from
Google that's not an accident um what I
what I would challenge your listeners to
understand from my perspective is that
um as far back as a guy by the name of
Joshua leerberg
um deep thinkers about biology and about
humankind in general and the human
species going for what decade what when
are we talking about 1950s and 60s all
the way up until now I mean he was a
very young Nobel Prize winner he was
like a a a Doogie Hower of his day if
you will okay um um Joshua leerberg is
the guy who coined the phrase microbiome
and a bunch of other phrases um Joshua
leerberg is quoted at the beginning of
one of these movies contagion or
something like that he's a he's a big
thinker um and his he was the first guy
to already say that the only way that we
would ever solve human biology or start
to really make great strides is when we
started to use computers to interpret
the the genetic code and and understand
it and I would I would again remind uh
your viewers that that the way that
machine learning don't call it uh
artificial intelligence that's just dumb
the way that machine learning solves um
these kinds of complex problems like
chess or go is through many many
reiterations um and then finding
patterns within that those many many
reiterations which is in reality also
how the human brain does it it's just
you're not really conscious of that
process whereas in a computer it can be
programmed and so although you can't
open the lid these these kinds of
problems can be solved but they are
solved through iteration and if people
could just step back and realize that in
the context of the human genome and
iteration is a person the the Genome of
a human is a single game of chess
expressed over the lifetime of a human
and so you need as many of those things
as possible before you're ever going to
be able to solve the big problem of how
does the how does the genome work and
they've understood this from the
perspective of mice and rats and all
this other stuff and the sequencing of
these animals that's one of the reasons
why we still work on inbred Mouse
strains because they are genetically
identical and so we
remove the gigantic variable which is
the wonderful diversity of of a normal
natural species now the diversity of
people and genomes available now on the
earth is never going to be this high
again if you just look at the population
pyramids and project into the future we
are going to go from 10 billion to two
billion whether you like it or not if we
want to go back to 10 billion and once
we get down to two billion we're going
to have to have more babies like that's
the way it works and we're not having
those babies right now and we haven't
for a while and so the population is
going to go down and the people that
rule the overclass the people that
really run the show you know at
insurance companies and hedge funds they
know this they've known this for decades
already that this was going to happen
and they have used this as a kind of
eclipse you know to fool the natives
into believing that something else
happened and that they're in control or
that they have powers that the average
guy doesn't have you know like they can
make Gain of function viruses and they
can go around the world this is all part
of an illusion that that was created
with murder lies and an existing
biological phenomenon that can't be
dismissed which is this you know
population pyramid where people are
going to there's going to be a lot of
people dying and there's going to be a
lot of people in hospitals and a lot of
pneumonia um in the coming decade like
that's just the way it is and and so
they are taking advantage of it to to
teach a mythology to our children so
that those children can be trapped in it
that's the way I see it and I think a
lot of these people that are involved
are pawns they they they are surrounded
by people who understand this but many
of the people don't
understand so the ultimate goal is
you've said to they they claim there's
the basically they'll be able to
understand the human genome um which
would do which would allow them to do
what engineer an end to disease um
engineer better humans than never before
take control of evolution of the species
is what they've talked about for a long
time um so it's like a eugenicist kind
of thing oh it absolutely is and that's
why I think you know somebody like Jamie
Metzel is a very curious person to
mention because Jamie Metzel is
considers himself a futurist he believes
in all of this you know human
augmentation and implantation and stuff
like that he's I mean is there any aside
from the ethical considerations of which
are great is there any truth to this or
are they
is are they nonsense is this nonsense um
I mean are they are they anywhere near
they claim to be able to do would be it
would be terribly naive of me to claim
that I understand the limits of the
computer technology available and the
limits of the sequencing technology
available in fact my guess is is that
they do have the technology to sequence
everybody and keep sequencing everybody
and and that's one of the reasons why
none of these people will ever
discuss I think you were aware of this
we didn't really touch on it but one of
the central pillars of the illusion is a
PCR test and the PCR test is effectively
just on the table now it's used in every
hospital for a wide variety of things
they can identify anything they want
with PCR and if you think very
specifically about that that is a
medical device and
each each um um reiteration of it should
be a medical device regulated by the FDA
but some somehow or another PCR testing
has now become ubiquitous and they don't
there's no who who Who's regulating this
who who's approving all under emergency
use authorization right gone it's just
all being applied and now what I would
again I'm gonna try and get as much out
there as I can challenge your listeners
to understand is that medical remnants
are real they sell the forkin of B In
America still because it's necessary for
cell culture and fiberblast cell culture
they still sell the placentas of of from
from births in our hospitals and they
sell the placentas from cesarian section
for much higher prices and these are
real Remnant streams and what I need you
to understand is that one thing that was
established in the course of the
pandemic was a Remnant stream of PCR
swabs which will have everybody's DNA in
it and some DNA from their microbiome
and if we think back to 2020 and 2021
when we were all locked down and all on
our phones no adults stood up to protect
the college kids from this gross
invasion of privacy for two years where
they had to swab whenever the university
told them to swab and a lot of these
universities were selling those remnants
to the highest bidder and this is still
going on today it has to be because
that's the data that they will feed into
the AI in other words and stop me if I'm
rambling but the the the one of the
things that I've heard people say is
that well yeah but if they don't know
what your name is when they swab you and
they don't know your your in the medical
records are all deidentified then how
could they ever well the whole reason
why they're setting up the AI thing is
so that they can take a deidentified
gene sample and use AI to connect it to
the most likely database record their
medical record and once they have that
problem figured out deidentified records
don't matter anymore because they can
take your DNA and they can
sufficiently read it so that they can
predict that your your race your
relative height you know whatever and
then if they already know that they took
it from this University now they have it
down to 3,000 men and then if they take
it on that date then they have it down
they will do this in order to break the
deidentification because since the Human
Genome Project started they have been
admitting it every time they announce a
new achievement they say well now we
need more genomes now we need more
people to volunteer now we need more
volunteers and the reason why they need
more volunteers is because they need
more games of go they need more games of
Chess and they are now going to brute
force it they want our children to be
all in on this they want them to be in
from the very beginning um and I think
that that's the reason why it's it's
critical to gain control of HHS and and
and FDA and CDC and make sure that they
steer that cruise ship where they want
it to go because if the illusion is
broken um and the whole vaccine schedule
as I see it in America is exposed as a
criminal Enterprise then they have a
very big problem on their hands because
that's a that's a that's a how do you
say it doesn't matter what team you
cheer for that's a pretty big message
um I mean there's so much I don't know
we could we could we could I think we
could go on for for hours and hours
maybe we should uh maybe we should leave
it there I don't know if there are any
you know other key messages key points
you want to get across but um well for
sure I you know there's a lot of little
tricks that that everybody I I want to
emphasize one more time that that the
pandemic couldn't happen unless people
people died um and so I am not ever
arguing that people didn't die one of
the things that you know one short
anecdote that I would really not
anecdote but but important point to
mention for anybody listening is that if
any of your relatives or you yourself
went to the hospital and experienced
Hospital covid the very first thing you
need to ask yourself or the very first
thing you need to look in your relatives
medical records is when or if they
applied supplementary oxygen and
precisely how they did it because one of
the the ground truths of the murder in
America is that the the willy-nilly
application of supplementary
oxygen um can result in precisely the
condition that they say is what a SARS
virus does which is acute respiratory
distress syndrome acute respiratory
distress syndrome originally applied to
people who were damaged from the oxygen
toxicity in the ICU and then later was
applied to the same syndrome that SARS
the first virus caused so it's important
for people to understand that there are
doctors all around the United States who
could have read this in a in a uh
textbook or could have looked at any of
the the papers that were published in
the 90s and the 2000s about oxygen
toxicity and how this can result in
extremely acute damage within an hour or
two um I find it frightening for example
that they are publicly saying that they
are giving high flow supplementary
oxygen to the pope right now because if
you look at the the literature there is
no there is no support for that
treatment being a good treatment and yet
they are it's in a headline right now so
I don't really understand what's going
on except that for
sure the few ICU doctors that I've
talked to that I feel have been honest
were absolutely clear that um pure
oxygen is not something that you could
just put on at 60 lers a minute and put
somebody in the hallway and come back
two hours later or they'll be sick um
and and the pneumonia that gets caused
by the application of supplementary
oxygen over several days is not viral
it's bacterial and so if you don't treat
those people with antibiotics you are
killing them um and this is the kind of
murder that I'm talking about the other
kind of murder that I'm talking about is
is the opioid crisis in America that
killed 100,000 americ every year for
five years that were all uh you know
younger than retirement age or the vast
majority of them were and in fact is the
reason why life expectancy in America
has gone down and these people for the
last five years have been telling us
that life expectancy is going down
because of covid and that's not true so
these are these are some very basic math
that that everybody needs to do in their
head and then once you do that the other
thing maybe for most people
that are are still Spellbound you have
to realize that if if
in if you can't remember another time in
your life as an adult when you were this
sick then all that means is that you
were hardcore all that means is that
when you were sick you went to work just
like every other American did all that
means is that when you were sick before
you blew it off or you tried to work
through it or push through it and this
time when the TV told you for six months
that something deadly and ter and
contagious and awful and you know it
would be irresponsible for you to not
take everything seriously now um even
the lightest symptoms could result in
you thinking that you're participating
in this show and and it's it's hard for
people to accept that but I don't
remember another flu except for the flu
that I had in 2019 and I think the
reason why is because the TV told me to
remember it the TV told me that it was
something significant but if I'm really
honest and my wife was always the one
who did this for me but yeah but you get
sick like this every winter every winter
since you've been riding your bike you
would get sick like this you complain
about the same thing it's not any
different and it's not except the TV
told me it was and I think a lot of
people underestimate that if you only
have the flu every five years you aren't
keeping track of it and until the TV
told you it was significant your
sickness or whatever you had was it's
just an imaginary thing it's it's
horrible
um but it's also simply simple it's
really simple um you can't underestimate
how spending all day on a screen
listening to these people and their
stories could have led you to believe
something that is not true definitely no
there was an immense I think people even
I forget the incredible psychological
pressure that we were put under in that
period where again there are literal
panics um you couldn't get toilet paper
you couldn't get water you couldn't get
bleach you couldn't get Lysol at any
store um you know if you were if your
neighbor came within several feet of you
people would freak out I mean the the we
were told that every single person is a
Potential Threat it is the most
antisocial concept it's the most
dystopian thing possible so the so of
course there is going to be some
psychosomatic element I mean I you know
when I was looking at all the death
certific I found so many crazy cases um
where for example of basically death by
fear propaganda for example um there
were several uh medical professionals
especially nurses who committed suicide
thinking uh after they tested positive
for SARS K2 they thought they got the
virus and they killed themselves there
was a man in I believe in the Bronx he
was in New York City I think the Bronx
who who um was diabetic and he um uh
tested positive for for covid and he
called the police late at night and said
there is a shooter in the street and the
police sent you know squad cars guns
blazing and he took like a Civil War era
um uh firearm like a revolver and some
like old old samurai sword and went out
in the street and charged at the police
and they shot him and and wounded him
and he and there's video of him laying
on the ground begging the cops to finish
him off and um they didn't kill him
right there he went to the hospital and
died later but he was so terrified of
because he was like an overweight
diabetic guy and he got the virus so he
wanted to die he was so consumed by fear
and that is the level of propaganda that
we were subjected to which should make
people Furious yes at the corporate
media at the media Talking Heads who
told us who spread that fear to kill
Americans to kill all kinds of people
I've come to understand it that they put
people on social media to do it too dude
definitely absolutely there's there's no
doubt I I have no doubt about it I mean
it's not you know people understand that
there is an alternative media so you
know we know what operation mocking bird
is and all these kinds of things do you
think that you know the CIA or whatever
the Deep state would not infiltrate
social media which is created by which
are really really military programs
fundamentally like of course it's so
curated the amount of like of like Nazi
propaganda that's pumped into my For You
tab on X and that I press I don't you
know less of this I don't want to see
this I don't want to see this and they
constantly put it into my feed in order
to stress me out and Trigger me and it
and it and it works sometimes and you
know it's it's very much like a curated
reality and that's that's you know not
something but were you there at some
point not understanding that because I
was I really thought that Twitter was a
place where people were kind of getting
away with something I I didn't see it
this way for a long time I was fooled so
well I mean man oh man I was Bamboozled
dude I'm completely Bamboozled I think
there are there are ways to use it once
and you can actually use it against them
to a degree once you understand what it
is um and you know there are ways to
kind of beat their algorithm and that
kind of thing um but unless you
understand the level of manipulation
that is going on then uh yeah you'll get
caught up and I think the overwhelming
majority of people do not understand um
how incred incredibly man manipulated it
is let alone the simple fact that you
know checking in on this app all the
time what that does to you
psychologically where the first thing
you do in the morning when you wake up
instead of you know looking at your
loved one your husband or your wife or
whatever it is and saying good morning
and giving them a kiss is you look and
see you know what notifications you got
or if someone said something mean to you
or if someone you know whatever it is or
what's the thing going on um
I I think people underestimate the
impact of that um and I mean one more
point I want to add about what you were
saying um about kind of the
psychosomatic aspect of people are like
well this is the sickest I've ever I've
ever been one more example of that I
have an investigation I I I never
published I think you and I I must have
told you about this a while ago um but
it was specifically about Pennsylvania
where my whole father side of the family
is actually from Pittsburgh so
Pittsburgh is kind of a home to me um
and my uh father's mother my my my
paternal grandmother she um was very
very sharp and in the in Co era you know
she was in like um like a an elderly I
guess like a whatever retirement home an
old folks home in Pittsburgh and she had
her friends there and she was pretty
vibrant she got a lot of interaction
which of course is um necessary for any
human but especially elderly people is
their locked away taken away from their
families that's basically what I think
kills them or accelerates their decline
um and when Co hit uh they basically
stuck her in a room and she described it
as like um being in prison and I was not
smart enough which I almost you know in
some I'm I'm I'll just be
forever just angry about I was not smart
enough or aware enough or I was too
bamboo to really understand that that I
wasn't a threat to her that actually I
was like myself and my newborn daughter
at the time and my family going to visit
her she we were the medicine we you know
that's what keeps people keep would have
kept her alive and so when I was finally
allowed to go visit her they kept us um
uh behind a see-through piece of plastic
put in the room with masks on and we
could only stay in that room for 15
minutes and you know we could talk to
her and wave at her and I'm with my like
infant daughter and and that was it and
I could just see how mentally degraded
she was and then it wasn't that long
after I got to see her one more time and
she was she was still alive but not
really there and then soon after she
died and I realized they just basically
under the pretext of covid-19 just took
Grandma up to the edge of the cliff and
you know in the wheelchair and dumped
her off and they killed her and there's
so many people that that happened to um
the last few years of her life I mean
there's so many levels of irony to it
for me or of
just I mean
she uh her entire family was killed in
the Holocaust she was a first
generation uh American um her whole
family in Europe was wiped out including
her grandparents who came to visit and
live in the US stayed here for 2 years
and it wasn't religious enough for them
so they went back to Lithuania they were
all killed so her whole family is killed
and then she you
know post World War II has like she and
my grandfather have this family and they
succeed and have their small business in
Morgantown West Virginia a furniture
store that provided for their family and
they became like you know upper middle
class and and uh and they ended up
having a very very big family and a lot
of descendants and so to go from that
horror to kind of like a a Redemption
story in a way and then at the very end
for this like
eugenicist program to basically take her
off to the edge of the cliff and just
throw her off is the ultimate just
infuriating it just infuriates me so
much um and when I actually looked at
what they did in Pennsylvania speciic
specifically to spread that fear um it
was actually you know each state had
different uh
lockdown um orders given out by the
governor and uh in um Pennsylvania it
was all designed in carnegi melon
University in a laboratory a privately
funded laboratory that was done in
concert with um Facebook
uh and DARPA and Google and Amazon so
three of the biggest Silicon Valley
corporations and DARPA which is like the
one of the experimental arms research
arms of the Department of Defense that
were basically
creating lockdowns and the protocols
that would be implemented over the whole
state it wasn't even actual there were
no like public health officials involved
in this they they just dictated and the
governor uh what was his what was the
governor at the time I can't think of it
do you remember I don't remember off the
top of my head I'm sorry that's all
right I can't think of his name off the
top of my head I mean this information
has been sitting in my you know in the
archived in my brain for two plus years
but he openly boasted that we're working
with these experts from Carnegie Millan
University and this privately funded
organization this basically a think tank
inside the university um and and they
actually created a a a uh case tracker
case counter on Facebook Tom Wolf it's a
really important name because he has a
long history with this biocurity state
too oh man there's so much we can do
with this so like um they so they they
created on Facebook a way for people to
just report cases themselves so it was
like if you have any symptom if you have
a headache if you feel woozy you're
tired
you can just click that as a covid case
and then anyone on Facebook is just
watching these covid cases just
Skyrocket it's everywhere I think I I
I'm short of breath I think I have it so
just it's just one of the ways they
created so much so much fear and there's
no doubt that that contributed mightily
to how people perceived whatever
seasonal respiratory virus or or
whatever they had um and I think they're
you know I mean it's not going to happen
but it's like we need some kind of
independent commission to establish what
actually happened the same way we need
it with October 7th to know what exactly
happened on October 7th who was
responsible how many people were killed
by Israel rather than you know everyone
says it was the Hamas Massacre they
raped and burned and what exactly
happened then and what exactly happened
who were the players involved who were
the people at the top who were the
witting agents and this is what we need
to know and the constant even to this
day the talk about lab leak um or um you
know Spike protein or the origin or or
this or that are just distractions and
it's like our lives our children's lives
like our society humanity is at stake
and so I really encourage people to
go watch what Jonathan J kuy has to say
on his streams um his his channel gig
biological which I biological which I
will link to um is an incredible
resource and challenge him and you know
if you I don't interview him people
should interview you I think um and and
really examine these things because this
is these are these
are incredibly important questions and
uh I know I don't know you know I mean
dude you're a king man I don't know what
to tell you I I really think we got a we
got somewhere today I really thought it
was a great conversation and more
importantly um I want to come back and
keep talking so if you're if your
listeners or your followers have a
follow-up you know direction we need to
go or topics we need to go to I'd be
happy to do it and um yeah I mean just
please let's keep going because this is
uh well how can I say it there aren't
very many Independent Media sources is
out there I think that you are one of
them and I you know you're the first
person to ask a lot of these questions
and so I'm happy to come and address
them again in more detail or just
address them again to keep getting the
message out yeah I mean we we we we
touched on so many different subjects
that you know and I think people are
going to have so many questions and
there's so many ways to take this it's
such an enormous subject with that is so
multifaceted that um you know I really
you know people please ask questions
post comments I'm going to we'll do more
of these these streams and again
interview Jay Jay kuy yourself um um but
no Jay I I mean I thank you immensely
for your uh you know your effort over
the years and your your integrity and
your time today and uh I really look
forward to doing it again thanks very
much Dan