WEBVTT

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And all the time it was Wiggles who made that black knight come to life.

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And there was no legend.

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Positively not.

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Wiggles just used the story to cover up my mysterious disappearance.

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Somehow he managed to get into the armour down at the train station.

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And like on the way to the museum he made you disappear.

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Oh Cheers!

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Scoobyoooo

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Good afternoon ladies and gentlemen, this is GIGO and Biological High Resistance Low

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Noise Information Brief brought to you by a biologist.

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It's the 17th of September, 2023.

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I have been with you fighting this limited debate spectrum that we've been trapped in,

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this Scooby-Doo mystery we've been tricked into solving.

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Today I wanted to take the chance to introduce you indirectly to someone who has been

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a friend behind the scenes, someone who's been helping me think about this a lot over the last

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couple years. And so it's about time that I guess just introduced this friend to you.

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At least that was my plan today and so as I switch over, welcome to the show.

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This is GIGO and Biological. My name is Jonathan Cooey. I'm the biologist bringing you this

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high resistance low noise information brief. On September 23rd, I have invited a friend

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to join us who I'm just calling a regular guy and I'm going to let him introduce himself

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to you. But the gist of this is that you can't possibly believe that it's just me and a pile

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of books and that's the fight. There are lots of people behind the scenes that I'm talking to

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every day and exchanging thoughts with and bouncing my ideas off of. This is not some kind of

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broadcast from the back of a garage with drawings on the back of napkins and stuff like that.

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I have a network of people that has through the last couple years kind of kept me in check

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and made sure that I'm not going completely off the deep end either with my ego or with

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any of the elaborate possibilities of the future that have been put in front of us.

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So let me see if what else did I have to put in here yet. I guess I just want to say

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we're trying very hard not to take the bait on social media, not to take the bait on television.

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Yesterday I covered another bunch of video and discussion about what's going on and trying to

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figure out what's going on with regard to this whole clone and swarm and infectious cycle thing.

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And I continue to add to this picture of who has changed our minds about things and who has kept

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us in these paths of narrative that have not allowed us to escape, not allowed us to realize

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that by changing our minds about these things these huge changes in our societal behavior

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resulted in hundreds of thousands of people being hurt or killed and that's the biology that we're

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trying to you know roll backwards a little bit. And so it is this controlled debate that we

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find ourselves in and it's this idea that there are people out there who are really trying to

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to break us free. And I think that's also part of this illusion that we don't need to solve the

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mystery because people like Robert Malone are on it and they are pushing the right buttons,

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they are calling the right people to account and so we can relax and just watch the Scooby-Doo

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episode unfold in front of us as the people who are responsible for the lab leak pandemic

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are brought to justice. So one of the things hey look at that there's an extra guy here

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not only do I see regular guy but I see a guy by the name of Mark Koolak who's actually also a

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regular guy well this is this is just really special. So let me switch over. Do you guys want

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to do an audio check for me? Check one two? Sure this is regular guy check one. Hey regular

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guys checking in. How are you there Mr. Koolak? Checking in checking in one two three four. How

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are you guys? I'm really good regular guy please meet my friend Mark Koolak for the first time live

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on TV. Thank you very much for joining me. Do you want to just take it away and give a little

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introduction as to how we met and what you're doing here so Mark also knows? Sure so this goes

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back a few years as JC said and to give you some background I'm in addition to being a regular

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guy I'm a parent and around the summer 2021 I started to become concerned about some of the

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information that was being put forth to the FDA. There's a website called regulations.gov that

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anyone can go to and sign up create an account and you're supposed to be able to put comments

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on regulations.gov where you comment on pending policy changes rule rule changes that that

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different agencies are making. And I went to look and see what kind of information

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what kind of comments had been submitted with respect to COVID vaccines because I was skeptical

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at that point. I found one comment I found one submission by CHD that I thought was I thought

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I could do better. And so I went and dug around for information that I could use being a regular

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guy you know not being a specialist in this area and I found some material that looked good

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including some material by an individual named Jonathan Cooey. I didn't know anything about

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this person but I liked what I was reading and so what I wanted to do was submit some information

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to the FDA saying hey I'm a concerned citizen I have these concerns here are my concerns.

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You know please consider this before you go ahead and make the determination whether it

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prove this vaccine for children. And that is so of course in order to do that you know

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ethically and fairly I decided it was appropriate to reach out to the author of this paper and so

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I did that and I struck up a conversation with Mr. Cooey and when I told him what I wanted to do

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he was intrigued and that touched off a long conversation.

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So I'm going to jump right into things as I said I'm a regular guy now I did go to some schools

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and I do have a few degrees here and there but and I do have a job I'm not you know out here

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I'm not homeless. So anyway I'm going to jump right into things and kind of just take us

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right off the diving board here because I don't know a better way to introduce what I don't

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know what it is I want to talk about today. So just a moment here let me get this going.

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All right so what you see here is an excerpt from a Duke Law Journal article that was published

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in 1989. It's kind of an odd article because it isn't really an article it's just a transcript

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of someone's closing remarks at a conference. In fact it's not his closing remarks it's his

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rebuttal to all the attacks that he'd taken from his initial speech which was not published in

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Duke Law Journal. Duke Law Journal decided only to publish his rebuttal. So this is 1989.

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Now the person who's speaking here was a lawyer who worked for the Reagan administration

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and he is a leading expert in an area of law called administrative law. So again this is 1989.

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Now I've highlighted what I think are the relevant sections here. This is the most important things

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not whether the remand comes up the same way next time. Now a remand is a technical word

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or remand is one of I'll and then a decision is made and then it gets appealed. The appellate

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court can overturn the decision but it can also kick the case back to the lower court and it can

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say you go decide it. Again you know we're going to change the rules you know we're going to tweak

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this and that maybe don't allow that information and allow this other information in and just do

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a new trial. That's called a remand and in this case he's not talking about trials that happen

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at court. He's talking about hearings that happen before these administrative agencies like OSHA and

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EPA okay. So he's saying that you know sometimes a court decision will come along and I'll slap

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one of these agencies some random agency and the other agencies he's saying are going to take

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note of this. Now most people think that everybody lives in fear of going to court and he's saying

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that's not what's important. It's not whether whether it goes to court and what instruction

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you get from the court. It's the ripple effect on what the agency does every day afterwards.

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Now the next sentence again he's an oral remark says the decision will be political. The decision

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he's referring to is not a legal decision. The decision he's referring here to here is a decision

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by the agency OSHA EPA. Most of these cases will never go to court but their political character

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will be affected very dramatically by the existence of the previous case. A lot of federal regulatory

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policy is affected by this case and it has nothing to do with ex post litigation at all. Now they

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emphasize at all which means he must have emphasized it when he was speaking. Ex post is a lad in

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terms that just means after the fact. So he's saying a lot of federal regulatory policy

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is based on these ripple effects that follow from one big decision and what it is is it's a

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bunch of people that work at these agencies who suddenly face uncertainty and they have to make

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decisions in the face of that uncertainty and it's not that they're worried about going to court.

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Everybody thinks that this is all about suing, taking people to court but sometimes it's about

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little pinpricks that have ripple effects. That's what this person was saying in 1989.

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Now in 1989 this person was not famous. Within a decade this person was fairly famous

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and within 20 years I got to know this person fairly well and I learned a lot of things from

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the person who gave this speech but I'm not going to talk about that. I'm going to skip to

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something else. Give me a moment here. Okay. A lot of people are aware, actually not a lot of

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people are aware. A lot of people are unaware that there were a series of cases

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that were decided by the Supreme Court 2022. You may recall that around October 2021

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President Biden gave an announcement. He said we're going to have a big vaccine mandate.

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Every employer, more than 100 employees are going to have to test all their employees.

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And there are going to be penalties if you don't comply, bigger penalties if it's willful

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non-compliance. Okay. Now this was all premised on an emergency declaration that was made by the

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Secretary of Health and Human Services. In other words the President said Secretary of Health and

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Human Services took stock of the situation and said oh my god there's a pandemic and oh my god

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we need to do something about it. And oh my god we've got these fantastic vaccines right here.

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So you know emergency emergency emergency. And so then the President writes a

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deckler and an executive order. And now an executive order is something to support and

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understand by executive orders. They can't give orders to you and me. They give orders only to

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executive branch agencies. Okay. Otherwise it would be unconstitutional if an executive

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order told you that you had to go out and mow your lawn that doesn't work. But you can give an

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order to OSHA. And that's what the President did. He gave it to OSHA, this Occupational Safety and

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Health Agency. Now this case was issued in January 2022. So you can count the days. It probably wasn't

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90 days from the date that executive order was issued until the date this opinion was issued.

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That's pretty fast. Another interesting thing about this case is that it's fairly short.

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I've got a couple of documents combined here but there's a couple opinions but the combined page

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total is 30. The average Supreme Court opinion is probably over 50 upwards of 70 pages. Okay.

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So this is short. Now there's some other odd things here. And I've highlighted things that

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I think are noteworthy. It's issued per curium. That's a Latin term. I forget what it means.

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But it basically means that you don't know who wrote it. It's anonymous, which is abnormal. Usually

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when the Supreme Court issues an opinion, it's, you know, Alito telling you that, you know,

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rose overturned. Here they don't tell you who wrote it. And they don't tell you who voted for it.

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Can I ask you a question here, a regular guy? Yeah, sure. Go ahead.

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Whose decision is that to make? Is it their decision or one justices decision to make that decision?

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Well, that's, that depends. So there's a chief justice and a lot of people get confused about

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what he does. They think he gives you other justices orders. No. What he does is he assigns

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the majority opinion when he's in the majority. Okay. So if he voted with the minority here,

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he would have no control over what the majority opinion says because he didn't vote with the majority.

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But if he votes with the majority, then he gets to decide who writes the opinion.

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And he gets to decide things like whether it's going to be issued per curium.

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Now you can reverse engineer this decision by looking at the dissents. And if you count up the

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dissents in this one, I don't know if I included the dissents here. Yeah, you can see the dissents

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here, Breyer, Sotomayor, Kagan. Okay. So that tells you who was in the majority and the majority

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tells you that Roberts is in the majority. So Roberts would have had discretion to issue

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it per curium. He could have written the opinion himself. We don't know. There were, there are

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five other justices who could have written it. He didn't want you to know. Okay. All right. Now,

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a couple of things he points out here. I'm going to say he. I don't know. Maybe it was a

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she, maybe it was Barrett who wrote it, but I'm assuming it's a guy. Don't ask me why.

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OSHA has never before imposed such a mandate, nor is Congress. Indeed, although Congress is

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enacted significant legislation addressing COVID-19 pandemic, it has declined any measure to pass

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any measure similar to what OSHA has promulgated here. Now, this is pretty plain reasoning.

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We've never seen anything like this. This is pretty crazy. Congress has taken a run at this

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kind of stuff. They've never done anything like what this little agency OSHA is doing.

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Now, then they, they, I'll skip ahead. As its name suggests, OSHA has tasked with ensuring

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occupational safety. There's the O, right? It seems like a big no-da. Then they talk about

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the standards that OSHA can prescribe. The standards must be reasonably necessary or appropriate

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to provide safe or healthful employment. Okay. They emphasize employment there, sorry.

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So the act contains an exception for ordinary notice and comment procedures for emergency

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temporary standards. That's why I was not allowed to comment on these vaccine

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regulations that I originally wanted to comment on. My original reason for reaching out to

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JC was to see if I could steal some language to comment on a regulation

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only to find out that I wasn't able to. And it was because of this emergency declaration that

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allows an agency to pass, pass regulations without the opportunity for public input.

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All right. So there's a couple things the secretary has to do before he can

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do this. He has to show that employees are exposed to grave danger from substances or

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agents determined to be toxic or new hazards and that the emergency standard is necessary to

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protect employees from such danger. All right. Now there's a couple things that I think are

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worth noting in here. The first sentence of this paragraph, after a two month delay, the secretary

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of labor issued the promised emergency standard. Why would they take the time to point out that

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there was a two month delay? Well, because it tends to suggest that it wasn't really an emergency.

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Okay. Couple things they know, it draws no distinctions based on industry or risk of exposure

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to COVID-19. Unvaccinated employees who do not comply with the rule must be removed from the

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workplace. And employers who commit violations face hefty fines up to 13,000, 136,000 for a

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willful fine. So if you say, hell no, I'm not doing it. And I know I'm not doing it

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up to $136,000. And I don't know if that's per day or per employee or what, but that's pretty serious.

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All right. Now the court here, as you might imagine, says this mandate's no good. He says these people

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are likely to succeed on the he's talking about, you know, the likelihood that he's

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ruling on an injunction here, but that the fact is this opinion has the effect of killing the

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executive order. So the administrative agencies are creatures of statute. They accordingly possess

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only authority that Congress has provided. Okay. Congress created OSHA through law. There's an

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occupational safety and health act. And it tells OSHA what it can do. The executive branch has

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some authority, but it's constrained by law. We expect Congress to speak clearly when authorizing

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an agency to exercise powers of vast economic and political significance.

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The question is whether the act plainly authorizes the secretary's mandate. And it does not,

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the act empowers the secretary to set workplace safety standards, not broad public health measures.

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And then they point out that although COVID-19 is a risk that occurs in many workplaces,

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it's not an occupational hazard in most cases. It spreads at home schools during sporting events

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and everywhere. That kind of universal risk is no different from the day to day dangers we all face.

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Okay. It says that allowing OSHA to regulate all these hazards would significantly expand

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its regulatory authority without clear congressional authorization. Now, I think this portion that

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I've highlighted in red gives away some of the emotions that were going on behind the scenes here

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because they carve out an exception. They say that's not to say OSHA lacks authority to regulate

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occupation specific related, occupation specific related risks related to COVID-19.

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Where the virus poses a special danger because of particular features of an employee's job or

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workplace targeted regulations are permissible. For example, OSHA could regulate researchers

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who work with the COVID-19 virus. Okay. So they're saying go ahead, vaccinate Fauci.

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All right. It's so ordered. There we go. All right. Now that's what? Nine pages. All right.

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Go out and find another nine page Supreme Court opinion. Well, actually I'll help you out because

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there's one more that I'm going to show you right now. And it was issued the same day.

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This one is also about a vaccine mandate. Well, it's about, yeah. Vaccine mandate by Joe Biden.

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You can see January 13, 2022. Now this is a little different. You can see who's being sued here is

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the Health Human Services Secretary. And this vaccine mandate applies to health care professionals.

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Now this one isn't a direct command. Okay. OSHA was giving an order and just saying

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everybody get vaccinated or you got to pay a big fine. This one is a little different.

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In this one, the secretary announced that in order to receive Medicare and Medicaid funding,

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participating fund, the facilities must ensure that their staff are vaccinated against COVID-19.

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Okay. So it's not required that you vaccinate your staff. It's only required if you want to get

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some of that money. Okay. That Medicare and Medicaid. All right. If you don't want Medicare and

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Medicaid, do your own thing. Now, in the court, this is this is procuring him again. Okay,

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okay. Where are you? Congress authorized the secretary to promulgate as a condition of a

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facility's participation in Medicare such requirements as he finds necessary in the

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interest of the health and safety of individuals for furnished services in the institution.

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That's pretty broad discretion for a secretary. Any requirements he finds necessary.

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The secretary has established long lists of detailed conditions with which facilities must

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comply. Certain providers maintain and enforce an infection prevention and control program

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designed to help prevent the development and transmission of communicable diseases and infections.

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On November 5th, the secretary issued a final rule or interim final rule saying that,

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facilities have to vaccinate all their staff and a facility's failure to comply on terrible

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lists. May lead to monetary penalties, denial payment for new admissions and ultimately

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termination of participation in Medicare and Medicaid. Okay. Again, the secretary didn't use

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the typical notice and comment procedures. The good cause was that any further delay would endanger

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patient health and safety given the spread of the delta variant in the upcoming winter season.

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So apparently that was the basis for skipping this notice and comment which again is normal

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normal part of the procedure but was skipped here. All right. Now here they say first we agree

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with the government that the secretary's rule falls within the authorities. The Congress

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has conferred upon them. That's the exact opposite of what we read in the last opinion.

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Congress has authorized the secretary to impose conditions that the secretary finds necessary

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then they say COVID-19 is highly contagious, dangerous, especially for Medicare and Medicare

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patients, deadly disease. Notice we didn't see any of this other language in the other opinion.

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There was nothing in there about COVID being dangerous. They just said that the risk is the same

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in the workplace, right, versus the home or the bus. They didn't have any of this language in here.

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Secretaries determined that the COVID vaccine mandate will substantially reduce the likelihood

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that health care workers, so this looks like a bunch of BS that they didn't bother to recite

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in the other opinion, but they're reciting it here. Ensuring that providers take steps to avoid

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transmitting a dangerous virus to their patients is consistent with fundamental principal medical

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profession. First do no harm. Are you like that? All right. As noted above, these health care

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facilities want that Medicare money. They've always been obligated to satisfy a host of

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conditions that address the safe and effective provision of health care. So this is an old

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old rule. Moreover, the secretary routinely imposes conditions on participation that relate to

26:23.260 --> 26:29.020
qualifications and duties of health care workers, and the secretary's always justified these requirements

26:29.020 --> 26:32.940
by citing his authorities to protect patient health and safety. So that's always been the

26:32.940 --> 26:40.060
justification. When asked at oral argument whether the secretary could use the same statutory authority

26:40.060 --> 26:45.660
to require hospital employees to wear gloves, sterilize instruments, wash their hands in a

26:45.660 --> 26:50.540
certain way at certain intervals, Missouri answered yes. The secretary certainly has the authority

26:50.540 --> 26:55.420
and implement all kinds of infection control measures. Then they go on to say, of course,

26:55.420 --> 26:59.100
the vaccine mandate goes further than what the secretary has done in the past.

26:59.820 --> 27:04.300
Bodies never had to address an infection problem of this scale and scope before.

27:04.300 --> 27:11.660
In any case, there can be no doubt that addressing infection problems is what he does.

27:12.300 --> 27:16.860
Okay. Health care workers around the country are ordinarily required to be vaccinated for

27:16.860 --> 27:22.860
diseases such as hepatitis B and fluenza measles you can count them up. All this perhaps is why

27:22.860 --> 27:28.540
health care workers and public health organizations overwhelmingly support the secretary's rule.

27:28.540 --> 27:33.100
Now look at what they cite. The American Medical Association submitted an amicus

27:33.100 --> 27:37.740
purity brief, a friend of the court brief and sort of the American Public Health Association.

27:38.620 --> 27:49.180
Okay. And as they as they point out here, health care workers and public health organizations,

27:49.900 --> 27:54.700
these are the same class of people that are supposed to be complaining about this law.

27:55.580 --> 28:01.980
Okay. These people are these, you know, Louisiana and Missouri is saying these health care workers

28:02.780 --> 28:07.660
object and the court is saying, well, wait a minute, when we look at what the American Medical

28:07.660 --> 28:11.900
Association says and the American Public Health Association, boy, they sure seem to think that

28:11.900 --> 28:19.660
this is this vaccine mandate is necessary. So you can guess where this is going.

28:21.180 --> 28:27.740
That vaccine mandate got upheld. Okay. Now, if you look at the dissent, look at who dissented,

28:28.300 --> 28:35.580
Thomas, Alito, Gorsuch Barrett. Okay. So there's your four conservatives. So that tells you who is

28:35.580 --> 28:42.540
in the in the majority was all the liberals, plus John Roberts. So it looks kind of like maybe

28:42.540 --> 28:47.980
John Roberts assigned the opinion to himself and made it per curium. I don't know. But anyway,

28:48.540 --> 28:53.180
that's one way of looking at where things are. Now, the reason that I go into this,

28:53.180 --> 28:57.100
the reason that I'm taking you through all this is not because I'm trying to get people

28:57.100 --> 29:06.940
spun up on, you know, ancient history here. It's because there's a perception, I think, that

29:07.740 --> 29:16.140
the law is stacked in such a way that nobody can make heads or tails of any, nobody can make any

29:16.140 --> 29:21.580
progress. Okay. You'll hear lots of muttering in the news about various people claiming that

29:21.580 --> 29:25.260
they've got, you know, litigation pending that's going to do this and it's going to prove this and

29:25.500 --> 29:28.700
this and that. And, you know, it's been two, three years now. None of that's gone anywhere.

29:29.500 --> 29:34.700
Here are two lawsuits that went to Supreme Court in three months and got a vaccine mandate overturned.

29:35.260 --> 29:43.180
Okay. So there's something a little odd going on here. I'm going to call it the Avenatti effect.

29:43.180 --> 29:47.100
You remember this guy, Michael Avenatti, he was on the news a few years ago. Everybody took him

29:47.100 --> 29:53.740
seriously. Everybody thought this guy was legit. Some people spotted him within three minutes and

29:53.740 --> 29:58.540
realized he was a phony and realized where it was all headed, but but he had a really shiny

29:58.540 --> 30:05.500
bald head. So it was hard to discount him. He did and Bill Maher loved him. MSNBC loved him.

30:06.140 --> 30:10.540
Everybody loved him. Yeah, they were thinking he was going to run for president. That's right.

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And, and, and when he brought Julie Sweatnik out to make accusations against Brett Kavanaugh,

30:16.940 --> 30:21.180
they were members of the Senate who actually took them seriously and asked questions related to

30:21.180 --> 30:26.140
that of Kavanaugh's hearing. So this guy was taken seriously in the media and in the Senate

30:26.140 --> 30:34.380
by at least one Senator. And yeah, now he's doing 16 years. Okay. So you got to wonder, I think,

30:35.100 --> 30:39.420
I shouldn't say that. I should say you should be skeptical of anyone who's holding themselves

30:39.420 --> 30:45.180
out as a legal authority on any of this stuff. Now there's one other thing I want to point out

30:45.180 --> 30:50.460
here. This is something a little more recent. This is the last thing I'm going to share before I

30:50.460 --> 31:02.220
kind of end my lecture here. This is an article I pulled up just by random. Now I had

31:03.420 --> 31:09.900
come to this recognition on my own separately. Okay, I had no idea this article was written.

31:10.780 --> 31:13.660
I was looking into, you know, people who sue for vaccines,

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of vaccine injuries, because that does happen. They're lawyers who take these cases. And I was

31:18.780 --> 31:24.860
trying to look at how that all that structured. What bothers me about the system we have right

31:24.860 --> 31:33.580
now is that the Seventh Amendment says I can sue anyone for any injury worth more than $20. Okay,

31:34.300 --> 31:38.860
it's pretty unambiguous. Okay, then the framers of constitution didn't put any exceptions in there.

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And generally speaking, there are no exceptions to that rule. They're well, there are. I mean,

31:43.980 --> 31:47.820
you can't sue the federal government unless they've waived sovereign immunity. But there's a few

31:47.820 --> 31:52.220
other things. So the Seventh Amendment says this. So I'm thinking again about my daughter.

31:52.220 --> 31:59.500
I'm thinking about going forward. What kind of remedies are available to me? And I see there's

31:59.500 --> 32:08.460
this vaccine injury compensation program. Okay, it's not a real court. It's an administrative

32:08.460 --> 32:13.100
hearing essentially where you go ask the government for money. Okay, normally when you get injured

32:13.820 --> 32:19.740
by a medical product. Okay, you get your medical records and you show it to show the

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injury and you go through the medical, you know, the device manufacturer, the product manufacturer,

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the drug manufacturer. In this case, for vaccines, you have, first of all, law that says you can't

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do that, which seems unconstitutional. How can a law just say I can't sue? And then separately,

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they've set up this channel that sucks and vacuums up all the vaccine injury claims.

32:47.420 --> 32:51.260
And it takes them to a court called the Court of Federal Claims. The Court of Federal Claims

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is a court that only pays out money. It's just sits in front of a pot of money

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from the taxpayers. And so you take your injury complaint to the Court of Federal Claims, they

33:02.700 --> 33:07.420
look it over. And if they think you were injured by the vaccine, they pay you out. Some money

33:07.420 --> 33:12.460
comes out of the taxpayer funds. It does not come from the vaccine manufacturers.

33:13.100 --> 33:19.420
So what this means is that vaccine manufacturers can put risky, even harmful vaccines on the market.

33:20.540 --> 33:25.500
And if something goes wrong, and people are injured, people get compensated, but they get

33:25.500 --> 33:33.740
compensated by the government. Okay. Now, the other thing is that I stumble across somebody

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who was bringing a claim through this process. And I learned that while their claim was pending,

33:41.340 --> 33:46.620
their lawyer had filed for what they call interim attorney's fees. Now, I'd never heard of this

33:46.620 --> 33:54.380
before. Normally, when somebody sues on a contingency basis, a contingency basis means the lawyer gets

33:54.380 --> 33:59.020
paid after that. If you lose, the lawyer doesn't get anything. But if you win a million dollars,

33:59.020 --> 34:03.260
you know, the lawyer gets a third of that or whatever. That's contingency. Okay. So most of

34:03.260 --> 34:09.580
these cases are going to be contingency because nobody's got, you know, $500,000 to pay a lawyer

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hourly to sue somebody. So in this case, these lawyers can take junk claims to the Vaccine

34:22.380 --> 34:32.140
Injury Compensation Court and get paid before the court renders a judgment,

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meaning the lawyers get paid the same as if the case was good for bringing a bad case.

34:41.500 --> 34:51.580
All right. Now, this creates what economists call a moral hazard. All right. A moral hazard

34:52.940 --> 35:03.180
is where, let's say you rent a car from Hertz. Normally, you park in a neighborhood where there's

35:03.180 --> 35:07.260
a high risk of vandalism because you figure, hey, it's not my car. You know, if something happens,

35:07.260 --> 35:11.900
Hertz will pay for it. If it was your own car, you wouldn't do that. You might park it in a safer

35:11.900 --> 35:15.500
location because it's not your car and somebody else is paying for it. You park it in a dangerous

35:15.500 --> 35:23.260
location. It's typically used in the context of insurance because it comes up in an insurance

35:23.260 --> 35:35.820
cases. So what they're saying here is that a lawyer has no incentive to actually bring a valid

35:35.820 --> 35:46.140
claim before this Vaccine Injury Compensation Program. And what that means is that any lawyer

35:46.140 --> 35:54.140
right now who is bringing cases against the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program is not in a good

35:54.140 --> 36:01.020
position to challenge the constitutionality of the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program.

36:01.580 --> 36:07.580
All right. Because let's say that lawyers got 50 clients who are all seeking payment through

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the VICP. Those clients are might be expecting a few hundred thousand dollars, right? Each, maybe

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more. And if the lawyer on the side is working to push a Seventh Amendment argument that knocks

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down the VICP and says, you know, if this VICP is part of an unconstitutional regime to deprive

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Americans of their Seventh Amendment rights, if the Supreme Court were to say that,

36:37.500 --> 36:42.220
well, all 50 clients now are out of luck, right? Where are they going to get the money? Now they

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have to go to, now they may have to go to state courts, 50 different state courts. They got to

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hire another lawyer. Maybe there's no lawyers know how to do it. You know, there's all kinds,

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it can effectively prevent them from some of them from getting paid.

36:57.900 --> 37:03.020
I'll leave it to others to decide whether that constitutes a conflict of interest. But I know

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that if I were looking for a lawyer to challenge this regime, the constitutionality of this regime,

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I would look for a lawyer who is not making money off the regime. And I'm going to leave it there and

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just end my lecture and my introduction. Well, I think that's pretty freaking awesome.

37:28.620 --> 37:35.740
So you brought a couple things up that I have written down, but maybe I just want to let Mark

37:35.740 --> 37:41.900
say hello and warm up his mic a little bit because he hasn't been able to warm up his mic. And I

37:41.900 --> 37:48.060
think we were both kind of wondering what we would get from you first. So it's nice to go back to

37:48.060 --> 37:53.660
the beginning of this where we met and we came together. And I remember you telling me stories

37:53.660 --> 37:58.860
about and assuring another friend of ours that there's no way this mandate would stand and

37:59.820 --> 38:04.940
and you were obviously right. Mark, go ahead. Just come whatever come to your mind this afternoon.

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Well, regular guy, you never fail to deliver. I can see where the ship is being navigated to it

38:21.020 --> 38:34.700
for as this conversation goes on. It this 30 minutes highlights how naive most of us are

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or perhaps just unaware of the most people have not actually gone through these particular cases,

38:48.220 --> 38:56.060
these rulings, these Supreme Court opinions. And even if we did, it would be we would be

38:56.140 --> 39:04.940
unable to actually extract that level of information. And it just it highlights. I mean, we are all

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being compelled whether regardless of where we are in the political spectrum, but the right,

39:10.860 --> 39:16.300
whatever the heck that's supposed to mean anymore, just to be really angry and fearful and combative.

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And they're it this just highlights have just been some very well thought out arguments.

39:25.500 --> 39:33.340
It's that it's actually kind of uplifting, right? I mean, even if the assessment

39:33.900 --> 39:39.660
was a little bit different, right, it goes goes to show that there was a look, this is the law,

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this is precedence, and this is where things are. And it's like, okay, well, whatever that

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leads us, we can, of course, reassess it, right, or perhaps ask for, you know, changes to the law,

39:52.940 --> 39:59.660
whatever, but I actually find it just an enormous relief to know, okay, there actually has been

40:00.220 --> 40:05.980
a well thought out assessment that I was unable to review. I couldn't have understood it.

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And I mean, I don't know how you feel, Jay, but to me, this is it's it's kind of a relief

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aside from the details, okay, it's not that we're happy about the resolution. But just to know

40:19.900 --> 40:24.300
that there has been this level of assessment, in particular, the first opinion piece,

40:25.340 --> 40:29.660
was just so well thought out. I mean, just the highlighting the OSHA back then. I mean, it

40:29.660 --> 40:36.060
again, this this we have this perception of the executive orders. Oh, the president could just

40:36.060 --> 40:43.020
have an executive order for everyone to wear blue jeans on Tuesdays in the country.

40:43.500 --> 40:49.180
No, it's an executive branch order. And although there's a director of OSHA reporting in the

40:49.180 --> 40:55.580
executive branch, OSHA is not the White House, it's an agency, right? So we've just been created,

40:55.580 --> 41:01.820
as you well said, by Congress, by an act of Congress. So it's much more complicated

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and nuanced than we're being led to believe. And again, I don't want to give a spoiler of

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where I think this is going, but I think that you have definitely set the shift in the right

41:16.380 --> 41:25.180
direction for the rest of the conversation regular guy. Thank you. I, you know, I I I use an analogy

41:25.180 --> 41:33.980
of a I think a spider waiting to be fed a cricket. That's how I view the Supreme Court

41:34.940 --> 41:40.540
on these issues right now. I think the difficulty is getting up there.

41:41.980 --> 41:46.380
And the difficulty in getting to the Supreme Court has nothing to do with the lower courts.

41:47.660 --> 41:55.500
It really has to do, I think, with the supply of potential litigants and the supply of lawyers

41:55.500 --> 42:02.860
who are willing to take these cases. The lawyers who are willing to take these cases are not looking

42:02.860 --> 42:09.180
to push the kinds of arguments that you're seeing here. There's an interesting case that's

42:09.180 --> 42:16.300
come up in the in the Fifth Circuit out of Texas. Now, this again relates to the original vaccine

42:16.860 --> 42:24.220
executive order. And this litigation now, there's a petition for certiorari at the Supreme Court,

42:24.220 --> 42:30.940
meaning that the litigants are asking the Supreme Court to pick it up. And I think the Supreme Court

42:30.940 --> 42:35.500
will. If you look at who filed that litigation, it was a man named Boyden Gray,

42:36.380 --> 42:44.300
B-O-Y-D-E-N-G-R-A-Y. And if you look at who Boyden Gray was, he was the guy who

42:45.660 --> 42:51.180
told three or four different presidents who would nominate to the Supreme Court. He was that powerful.

42:53.260 --> 43:00.620
He died last year. He's an old guy. But not before he got that litigation kicked off in Texas.

43:01.500 --> 43:07.820
And that litigation kicked off in 2021. And other lawyers have picked it up and it's at the Supreme

43:07.820 --> 43:14.220
Court right now. But that is what it took in that case. It took somebody like Boyden Gray,

43:14.780 --> 43:22.220
somebody who had personally nominated. He had actually been the lawyer who advised George W. Bush

43:22.220 --> 43:30.700
to nominate Clarence Thomas. I mean, George H. W. Bush and he advised George W. Bush to nominate

43:30.700 --> 43:38.220
John Roberts. So the guy who put two Supreme Court justices on the court brought that lawsuit

43:40.780 --> 43:50.220
before he died. So that's what it took in that case. I get very frustrated with the level of

43:50.220 --> 43:58.940
discourse that I see online because I see a lot of boning us. I see a lot of people who have an

43:58.940 --> 44:05.980
incentive to disemble on certain topics. And frankly, I see a lot of people that are taking

44:05.980 --> 44:11.420
case to the vaccine injury compensation program. And by the way, I noticed in the comments people

44:11.420 --> 44:17.180
mentioned that the COVID vaccine is a countermeasure. That's true. There's a countermeasure

44:17.180 --> 44:23.660
injury compensation program that's roughly the same as the VICP. It's not as well funded

44:23.660 --> 44:30.060
right now. And the major difference there is that attorneys can't get interim fees there.

44:30.620 --> 44:37.340
So attorneys don't have an incentive to bring crappy claims to the CICP like they do with the VICP.

44:37.900 --> 44:45.500
Now that said, it may not be much of it. It may not mean much of anything because there is a push

44:46.220 --> 44:52.460
to get full authorization for these vaccines. And once the vaccines get full authorization,

44:52.460 --> 45:00.380
they'll be in the VICP. They won't be in the CICP. Second of all, both the CICP and the VICP

45:01.100 --> 45:07.260
exist for the same fundamental purpose. And it's to vacuum up lawsuits that might otherwise go

45:07.260 --> 45:12.940
to a federal court where someone could actually challenge the constitutionality of the prep act,

45:12.940 --> 45:21.580
let's say. So they both serve the same purpose. So if you strike at the prep act and you strike at

45:21.580 --> 45:30.140
the vaccine, the law is a grand immunity to vaccine manufacturers, I think it will have

45:30.140 --> 45:38.700
the effect of killing off the CICP and the VICP. So I think, you know, for purposes of

45:39.500 --> 45:45.260
identifying some real unfairness in the system, I think the VICP seems to be the most glaring

45:45.260 --> 45:52.300
because of those interim attorneys fees. If you can think of any other area of life where a lawyer

45:52.940 --> 46:02.060
can bring a totally junk claim and get paid by the government, please tell it to Jay so he can

46:02.060 --> 46:06.780
let me know. Because maybe I'll want to go to law school then and become a lawyer. Who knows?

46:09.420 --> 46:16.300
It's that absurd. There's no other analogy. And it wasn't until I found that law review article,

46:16.300 --> 46:20.540
honestly. Actually, I'm not sure it's a law review article, but that article that I posted at the

46:20.540 --> 46:26.300
end that I realized somebody else had actually looked into this. And it's from 2014, it was issued

46:26.380 --> 46:32.380
by Liberty University. It didn't come from Harvard, but it was sort of a hallelujah moment for me

46:32.380 --> 46:36.780
that I realized I wasn't alone. Someone else had noticed this and that, yeah, this is the only

46:36.780 --> 46:42.460
place where lawyers get paid for bringing junk claims. And the only reason that they can possibly

46:42.460 --> 46:48.860
be doing that is to prevent any lawyer from ever challenging the constitutionality of it.

46:48.860 --> 46:53.980
Because as soon as you challenge the constitutionality of it, you risk not getting paid.

46:56.300 --> 47:00.700
You risk your client not getting paid. And they can drag that on for years, right? In theory.

47:00.700 --> 47:05.660
That's right. Yeah, a client would have to agree to that. The client would have to sign up

47:06.540 --> 47:12.380
for all that because most people would not. Most people would say, wait a minute. You

47:12.380 --> 47:17.580
could have gotten me the easy money at the VICP. Why? What are we doing in Missouri State Court?

47:19.180 --> 47:21.980
Mark, you have a question. Well, I mean, this is a

47:22.780 --> 47:29.020
let's stay on subject here. But while this may sound to some like a, you know, we're getting into

47:29.020 --> 47:35.500
the weeds a little bit here, regular guy just mentions the constitutionality topic. And many

47:35.500 --> 47:46.220
would say in spite of the many, many challenges and weaknesses are still relatively infant country

47:46.220 --> 47:52.540
has. And I think the great future it will have is we always, many people refer back to, and I

47:52.540 --> 47:56.860
will as well, we have a constitution, we have justice, we have the rule of law. Fantastic.

47:56.860 --> 48:06.140
That's true. Which means if we were to somehow bypass that, well, then it's all open.

48:07.180 --> 48:12.780
And what you're highlighting here is the the very tip that I hate to can't stand this in

48:12.860 --> 48:20.460
this phrase, but of a massive iceberg that for some reason is unusually low in the water. And

48:20.460 --> 48:25.820
you can all it's almost completely under the surface. But you can see a tip of there has been

48:26.380 --> 48:35.420
a lot of thought into having ways, whether it be compensation programs or

48:35.500 --> 48:46.380
other methods of approaching the law or having things resolved through arbitration and dialogue

48:46.380 --> 48:55.500
and separate government programs to avoid the constitution to avoid the rule of law. If there

48:55.500 --> 49:02.780
were to be a major redirection of the country, what do you do? Well, you find ways to not use

49:02.860 --> 49:08.860
these great things. So this is not just a tiny little corner case that we are just starting to talk

49:08.860 --> 49:15.660
about here. This is gigantic. This is galactic right now. And that's just that's the start. So

49:15.660 --> 49:20.380
just for the audience to tie and sit, I'm trying to tell them why you want to keep listening here

49:20.380 --> 49:26.060
and why and where this goes. I mean, you know, I know that there's a discussion to be had there

49:26.060 --> 49:33.580
with respect to patents in particular, because patents in patent law arbitration and mediation

49:33.580 --> 49:38.780
are used to keep disputes private and to avoid setting precedent. But I'm also sharing here

49:41.420 --> 49:48.860
an article that came out quite a while ago. I think this is from 2011. No, no, actually maybe

49:48.940 --> 49:58.620
more recent. I first became aware of issues at the FDA through a lecture that I saw

49:59.260 --> 50:04.380
by a law professor named Richard Epstein from 2011. You can still find it on YouTube. It still

50:04.380 --> 50:09.980
probably only has about 30 views. And he spends about two hours just tearing into the FDA.

50:11.420 --> 50:18.300
Not for any reasons that really are relevant to what we're talking about here. But this is an

50:18.300 --> 50:24.220
interesting article because it points out that that the FDA violates the first amendment left

50:24.220 --> 50:32.860
and right, which is true. And the way that it does that is that there's no reason why I shouldn't

50:32.860 --> 50:40.060
be able to cook up a batch of something on my stove and call it a COVID vaccine or say that it treats

50:40.060 --> 50:48.780
COVID. I could go out on the street corner, set up a lemonade stand, my lemonade cures COVID

50:49.580 --> 50:55.900
first amendment. Now, if there's fraud there, somebody can sue me. It's not like there's no legal

50:55.900 --> 51:00.220
remedies where I can just poison people. I could fight poison in there. I can go to jail.

51:00.700 --> 51:06.300
All right. What the FDA says is that you can't use those words effective

51:07.340 --> 51:17.420
COVID, okay, unless you have our permission. Now, this is something that's challenged routinely

51:17.420 --> 51:22.620
by supplement manufacturers. And that's really what this article is about. Supplement manufacturers

51:22.620 --> 51:27.900
want to say effective at lowering blood pressure in Yada Yada. And so they sue the FDA and they

51:27.900 --> 51:32.620
say, hey, you guys are infringing our first amendment rights. And what this says

51:34.700 --> 51:41.020
that the FDA's response has been to strategically avoid appealing these decisions,

51:41.740 --> 51:48.060
to construe these decisions as narrowly as possible, and attempt to continue on business as usual.

51:48.060 --> 51:53.340
So what they mean is that an individual supplement manufacturer might win, and then they go, okay,

51:54.140 --> 51:59.020
that supplement manufacturer fine. They can put it on their label. But everybody else

51:59.020 --> 52:04.620
who's making vitamin D, you know, you got to bring your own separate suit, okay. So every

52:04.620 --> 52:09.420
individual supplement manufacturer that wants to put that on their label has to go and sue the FDA

52:09.420 --> 52:15.180
and win. All right. Just the fact that one vitamin D manufacturer did it doesn't open the door to

52:15.180 --> 52:22.300
the rest of them. All right. And so this was a strategy that the FDA was using for a long time.

52:22.380 --> 52:27.420
Now this is commercial speech, which is still protected under the first amendment, but it has

52:27.420 --> 52:34.300
has lower protections. But what's interesting about this is that there is a movement in the

52:36.140 --> 52:39.660
I'll call it the scovid COVID skeptic community right now

52:41.340 --> 52:48.460
to reform the FDA. I heard Vivek talk about this. I don't know if Vivek is still in the in the

52:48.540 --> 52:54.380
race, but but the last last I saw he was he was he was talking about this. He was saying, you know,

52:55.100 --> 53:00.540
the FDA is really unscientific and the FDA does blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Now what these people

53:00.540 --> 53:05.980
are really pushing for is they're pushing for the FDA to have no standard so that anybody can

53:05.980 --> 53:13.100
sell anything. Okay. What Vivek is complaining about is not that the FDA isn't being rigorous

53:13.100 --> 53:19.420
enough when it evaluates these drugs for safety and efficacy. What he's saying is, hey, it's so

53:19.420 --> 53:26.460
sloppy with these vaccines that the drugs my pharma company makes. You know, the FDA has to be

53:26.460 --> 53:32.060
equally sloppy when it reviews our drugs too. It allowed them to say it's safe and effective.

53:32.060 --> 53:37.660
It should allow us to say it's safe and effective. Right. And so there's that push that's coming

53:37.740 --> 53:43.820
from the industry. And so the reason I point this out is to highlight that to the extent that

53:43.820 --> 53:50.860
people are really spun up and are aware of the constitutional issues here and and to the extent

53:50.860 --> 53:54.700
there are people who are reading Supreme Court cases who aren't really invested in this,

53:55.900 --> 54:04.540
they're not on your side. And that includes, I think, some of the ones that are holding themselves

54:04.540 --> 54:12.220
out there is COVID skeptics. I think they have legal interests that they are protecting by

54:12.220 --> 54:18.460
saying the problem's over here. It's not over there. You know, these people who are telling you,

54:18.460 --> 54:26.860
for example, that this key to suing Pfizer is to find that they committed some kind of willful

54:26.860 --> 54:33.260
fraud. They lied. They committed some crime. They knew it was bad. They knew it was taint,

54:33.260 --> 54:39.180
this kind of stuff. If you look at the prep act, yeah, there's a little section in the prep act

54:39.180 --> 54:48.140
that says that the immunity doesn't apply for willful misconduct. The thing is all these lawyers

54:48.140 --> 54:52.140
who are doing this, they're trying to work within the parameters of the prep act. In other words,

54:52.140 --> 54:57.820
they accept the constitutionality of the prep act as a given. And they're saying since the prep act

54:57.820 --> 55:04.620
says we can sue for willful misconduct, we'll go look for willful misconduct. None of them are

55:04.620 --> 55:10.380
saying, hey, wait a minute, I should be able to sue for any negligence. I should be able to sue

55:10.380 --> 55:16.460
for any injury again. I shouldn't have to prove that they intended to do it. I don't have to prove

55:16.460 --> 55:23.500
that the landlord intended to make the stairs slippery. All I have to prove is that he didn't

55:23.500 --> 55:32.700
come out and shovel him. Interesting, interesting, interesting. Yes, I see, I see.

55:33.580 --> 55:40.380
It's tricky. We can have more conversations about it later too. I mean, this is all broad

55:40.380 --> 55:46.300
brush overstrokes. And, you know, I'm talking here about things that I've observed over the course

55:46.380 --> 55:54.620
of two years. Again, all I've been this entire time is a father concerned about,

55:55.500 --> 56:01.100
you know, there was a proposed vaccine law at one point that almost went into effect that would

56:01.100 --> 56:05.100
have required my daughter to get vaccinated to go to school. And I had a problem with that.

56:06.060 --> 56:13.660
And, you know, I, and so from day one, I've been solely focused on that one. That's been my primary

56:13.660 --> 56:18.780
focus, I would say. But along the way, I've fallen down X number of rabbit holes.

56:20.700 --> 56:24.780
And, you know, the reason I'm on this show, by the way, is because

56:26.540 --> 56:31.660
JC is the only person that I've talked to over the course of two years who's consistently,

56:31.660 --> 56:39.100
I think, thought about this stuff logically. And honestly, everybody else that I've talked to,

56:39.100 --> 56:44.700
I run into a brick wall with them at some point. JC's been the only one that seems to follow it.

56:45.580 --> 56:51.100
So, you know, I've kept talking. And it just got to the point where, you know,

56:51.660 --> 56:56.060
I felt maybe I should introduce myself because I want people to get the full picture and help

56:56.060 --> 57:01.420
chase, help them understand. You know, like JC said, the depth of the conversations that are

57:01.420 --> 57:07.740
happening behind the scenes. Do you think that others are intentionally?

57:09.260 --> 57:15.420
Falling in or take going into those areas? Or do you think that they're, they are subject to

57:15.420 --> 57:21.900
fallacies that even they are unaware of? I even know what question I think I just want you to

57:21.900 --> 57:26.060
expand upon. Well, okay, so first of all, yeah, first of all, most of the people who are

57:26.940 --> 57:31.820
holding themselves out as that I see online. Okay, so I've got many friends who are

57:32.700 --> 57:37.660
anti-vaxxers and I'll stop by their homes. And they want to show me a YouTube video,

57:37.660 --> 57:41.340
some lawyer saying, oh, this is amazing. You got to hear this. You got to hear this.

57:42.460 --> 57:47.340
And inevitably, it's junk. I can't make it through the first 30 seconds because I can tell it's

57:47.340 --> 57:54.220
just gibberish. Now, most of these people are not as far as I can tell real practicing lawyers.

57:54.220 --> 58:00.300
Okay, one of them, probably the most famous one. I went and looked at the guy's website

58:02.060 --> 58:07.100
to see like, you know, how it stacks up against other lawyers' websites. And I see that he

58:07.180 --> 58:12.540
advertises himself, he advertises paralegal services. The guy's actually offering to do

58:12.540 --> 58:19.020
work as a paralegal, even though he's got a law degree. That's weird. Okay, that suggests to me

58:19.020 --> 58:23.820
that this guy has never actually practiced law. He's out there, you know, he's really desperate

58:23.820 --> 58:28.620
enough that he's going to hold himself on his own website as a paralegal. But he's out here,

58:28.620 --> 58:34.460
you know, getting all kinds of comments on social media and stuff, you know. And I see that kind

58:34.540 --> 58:41.260
of stuff a lot. I just see jokers. I don't see, you know, the where I see the legit players,

58:41.260 --> 58:44.700
when I look at the names that are on the filings, like I mentioned Boyd and Gray,

58:45.580 --> 58:50.460
the only reason I noticed Boyd and Gray was because I read a writ for Sir Shirari,

58:50.460 --> 58:54.700
he came up at Supreme Court and I looked at the law firm that was at the bottom and I had his name

58:54.700 --> 58:59.980
on it. And I said, the hell, could that be the same guy? And sure enough, it was. But there was no

59:00.540 --> 59:07.580
news about him doing this. Nobody made a big stink about it. He didn't seek fame for it.

59:09.340 --> 59:14.140
I think that there are organizations out there that are probably

59:15.820 --> 59:22.540
supportive of this kind of thing on some level. But it's hard to say because, you know,

59:23.020 --> 59:29.740
the big ones that I know of are affiliated with law schools and the law school faculty

59:29.740 --> 59:37.020
who run them may have conflicting interests. So I'm not sure that those organizations are the

59:39.660 --> 59:48.060
best. I will say that George Mason University has did some early litigation related to this stuff.

59:48.540 --> 59:53.340
I don't know quite where they are right now, but they've got a pretty activist law school there.

59:55.660 --> 01:00:03.740
But other organizations, it's hard to say because, you know, the way that the legal profession

01:00:03.740 --> 01:00:11.980
operates is that people come out of law school, if they come out of a top law school,

01:00:12.940 --> 01:00:18.300
they're recruited while they're in school. And they're typically recruited by big firms.

01:00:18.300 --> 01:00:25.020
People are usually trying to work for these big firms. And so they get this kind of exposure

01:00:25.020 --> 01:00:29.340
to the corporate side of things right out of law school. And then if they want to transition

01:00:29.340 --> 01:00:33.900
to something else, they've got the golden handcuffs at that point that, you know, they don't want

01:00:33.900 --> 01:00:37.820
to take too much of a pay cut. So they're looking to go in-house somewhere. You know,

01:00:37.820 --> 01:00:41.740
they're looking for somebody that's going to pay. There aren't too many people out there that

01:00:41.740 --> 01:00:48.860
don't, that have the credentials that haven't gone through that sort of career trajectory.

01:00:49.500 --> 01:00:54.300
Okay. You look at Boyd and Gray, he was at the end of his career when he filed that lawsuit.

01:00:56.300 --> 01:01:00.940
So can I push back on that for a little bit just to see how this affects your opinion? So

01:01:02.700 --> 01:01:08.060
Boyd and Gray put forth Clarence Thomas. Clarence Thomas was a Monsanto lawyer.

01:01:08.940 --> 01:01:11.740
My odd,

01:01:14.780 --> 01:01:21.580
my spidey sense is wondering if you could imagine a scenario where these lawsuits that you covered

01:01:22.300 --> 01:01:30.380
that we discussed, they were percureum. And even these things would to go with the FDA are all kind of

01:01:30.940 --> 01:01:39.180
a probing, a probing exercise from both sides of the aisle, from the left and from the right

01:01:39.180 --> 01:01:48.300
to try and see how these, where the holes are in the, in the legislative, you know, wall so that

01:01:48.300 --> 01:01:55.420
they can change these things or institute mandates. So maybe the OSHA thing was just a test and that

01:01:55.420 --> 01:01:59.820
didn't work, but they got an answer from the Supreme Court that will allow them to test it again next

01:01:59.900 --> 01:02:08.860
time. And so to what extent could Boyd and Gray's lawsuit be just another test of where the holes

01:02:08.860 --> 01:02:14.860
are in the system, given that Boyd and Gray is some kind of dude who at least seems to have promoted

01:02:14.860 --> 01:02:20.540
Clarence Thomas, who in the past, I used to think was kind of a bad guy. I know that he's a

01:02:20.540 --> 01:02:28.060
conservative judge, but I also knew that he worked for some pretty shady corporation. So does that

01:02:28.700 --> 01:02:35.340
go well? Well, I, you know, my take on Thomas is that I think is, I think is his career before

01:02:35.340 --> 01:02:40.540
coming to federal service was fairly innocuous. He worked, he was chairman of the EEOC,

01:02:42.300 --> 01:02:52.220
which is normally an extremely, I would say, let's call it liberal or agency. Okay. And to put a guy

01:02:52.220 --> 01:02:59.100
like that in charge of the EEOC was pretty significant. And I don't know what kind of

01:02:59.100 --> 01:03:05.580
reputation you earned at the EEOC, but Bush had to fill Thurgood Marshall's seat. And of course,

01:03:05.580 --> 01:03:13.020
he had pressure to fill with an African American. And now what I'll say about Thomas as a justice

01:03:13.020 --> 01:03:19.820
is that he doesn't really care about precedent. And I think he has a point. Why should Clarence

01:03:19.820 --> 01:03:26.380
Thomas care what some other Supreme Court justice had to say in 1911? Clarence Thomas,

01:03:26.380 --> 01:03:31.340
Supreme Court justice too. So he's not, he doesn't care about precedent. He's happy to overturn it.

01:03:33.660 --> 01:03:42.300
And, you know, he's got, he's got some other other quirks. But in general, he's been, I would say,

01:03:42.300 --> 01:03:47.260
intellectually consistent, much more so than Scalia. He used to get accused of copying Scalia,

01:03:47.260 --> 01:03:52.380
but it's really not like, really never liked that at all. People say they never ask questions

01:03:52.380 --> 01:03:57.100
at oral argument. But if you go to the YouTube, if you go on YouTube, you check me on this,

01:03:57.100 --> 01:04:03.340
you can listen to the oral arguments on these vaccine mandate lawsuits that I read over.

01:04:04.460 --> 01:04:10.860
And the first question to the solicitor generals from Thomas, and he says, what was the emergency?

01:04:11.820 --> 01:04:17.820
Which is a good question. This is an emergency declaration. What was the emergency in October 2021?

01:04:17.820 --> 01:04:23.020
So the vaccines have been out for nine months at that point. What was the emergency? COVID had been

01:04:23.020 --> 01:04:28.620
around for, you know, almost two years, right? Which is a very good question because it gets to the

01:04:28.620 --> 01:04:34.700
issue of whether this was an abuse of an emergency authority. Now, what I think, where I think this

01:04:35.340 --> 01:04:44.140
is headed, is for the Supreme Court to strike down some of these emergency authority provisions.

01:04:44.140 --> 01:04:52.140
Okay. Now, I've got, I'm sharing here the actual law that confers this liability.

01:04:56.540 --> 01:05:01.340
Now, right here, subject to other provisions of this section, a covered person, she'll be immune

01:05:01.340 --> 01:05:07.020
from suit and liability under federal state law with her. Okay. That's just saying Seventh

01:05:07.020 --> 01:05:15.420
Amendment doesn't work here. Okay. So no Seventh Amendment. And if you go down to where, yeah,

01:05:15.420 --> 01:05:20.860
declaration of the secretary. So this kicks in as soon as the secretary makes a determination.

01:05:20.860 --> 01:05:27.900
And the secretary doesn't have to do any science here. The secretary simply has to consider

01:05:27.980 --> 01:05:31.100
certain things. If you look at the verbs, factors to be considered,

01:05:31.740 --> 01:05:37.420
consider these things. Okay. And then look at this. No court of the United States,

01:05:37.420 --> 01:05:42.380
right here, Number seven, or any state shall have subject manager restriction to review whether

01:05:42.380 --> 01:05:48.460
by mandamus or otherwise any action by the secretary under the subsection. Meaning you can't challenge

01:05:48.460 --> 01:05:54.460
what the secretary's decision here, even though there isn't a requirement that the secretary be

01:05:54.460 --> 01:06:03.420
particularly scientific here. Okay. So this is a very weak standard for supporting suspension

01:06:03.420 --> 01:06:10.620
of people's Seventh Amendment rights. Okay. I think Thomas is sympathetic to that.

01:06:11.180 --> 01:06:21.980
I think he's more than happy to get rid of that stuff. What's occurred recently that I haven't

01:06:21.980 --> 01:06:30.860
talked about is really a bigger change. If you Google Chevron Doctrine, there's a case from 1984,

01:06:31.500 --> 01:06:36.540
very famous Supreme Court case that establishes a rule that basically says that whenever an

01:06:36.540 --> 01:06:41.580
agency makes a determination that requires any kind of scientific expertise, any kind of scientific

01:06:41.580 --> 01:06:48.220
judgment, courts are supposed to defer to the agency experts because judges are English majors

01:06:48.220 --> 01:06:52.780
and polyside majors. They don't know anything about, you know, nuclear physics or any of that

01:06:52.780 --> 01:06:58.940
crap that the EPA does. So just trust the experts. Trust the expert to the agency. And it's a rule.

01:06:58.940 --> 01:07:04.380
Okay. It's a, it's an instruction from the Supreme Court that basically says, you know, if when in

01:07:04.380 --> 01:07:10.620
doubt, go with the, with, with the agency, what the government says. Okay. Now this is called

01:07:10.620 --> 01:07:16.700
Chevron Decorance and it's, and it's a form of, you're deferring to the executive branch. It's the

01:07:16.700 --> 01:07:21.580
judicial branch deferring to the executive branch. So it's a separation of powers issue.

01:07:22.380 --> 01:07:28.940
What's happened is that the court in recent years has just disregarded it. Okay. So for example,

01:07:30.060 --> 01:07:38.060
Thomas's question, an oral argument, what was the emergency? The law says you can't ask that

01:07:38.060 --> 01:07:46.140
question. Okay. The law says no, no one can review the secretary's declaration here. Well, Thomas

01:07:46.140 --> 01:07:50.940
is saying, I don't care about that law. I'm asking you what the emergency was. And the

01:07:50.940 --> 01:07:56.300
solicitor general didn't say, oh, um, uh, Justice Thomas, uh, you can't ask that question. It's illegal.

01:07:56.940 --> 01:08:01.180
You know, I'm, I mean, they'd be inviting destruction at that point, right?

01:08:02.540 --> 01:08:08.780
And so I think the task is, and I think there are many people on the court who are sympathetic to

01:08:08.780 --> 01:08:12.060
this. Brett Kavanaugh, before he was on the Supreme Court, was on the D.C. Circuit.

01:08:13.020 --> 01:08:18.060
He's on the D.C. Circuit for, I think, 12 years. He wrote something like 300 opinions.

01:08:20.060 --> 01:08:25.900
If you read any of his opinions at random, he would go into these agency decision-making processes.

01:08:25.900 --> 01:08:32.300
A lot of detail. This is something that the D.C. Circuit does a lot. He's very much a fan of

01:08:32.300 --> 01:08:37.820
getting rid of this junk about agency deference. Um, I think Gorsuch is fine with it.

01:08:38.380 --> 01:08:41.900
Well, you know, he's got no problem with it. And then it's just a question of, you know,

01:08:41.900 --> 01:08:45.420
is Robert's going to write the opinion or is he going to let someone else do it? Okay.

01:08:46.140 --> 01:08:50.780
But that's assuming a case actually gets up there. To get a case up there, you've got to get

01:08:50.780 --> 01:08:56.540
what's called standing. You have to convince a court that you have the right to sue. And to have

01:08:56.540 --> 01:09:01.420
the right to sue, you have to show an injury. An injury can't be speculative. It's got to be a

01:09:01.420 --> 01:09:07.180
real, you know, injury that you're going to experience as a result of this law. And a lot of people

01:09:07.180 --> 01:09:12.380
have trouble at that stage. A lot of people have trouble showing that they have standing.

01:09:12.380 --> 01:09:19.340
And so Boyden Gray's genius was getting standing in Texas before he died. And it was really odd

01:09:19.340 --> 01:09:26.060
how he did that. I can go into in detail, but I might bore people. But it was a really interesting,

01:09:26.060 --> 01:09:29.900
really interesting case. The starters really had to align there. And you had to have the right lawyer

01:09:29.900 --> 01:09:36.620
looking for it. I think maybe the best analogy is Peter Thiel. When Hulk Hogan sued Gawker,

01:09:37.260 --> 01:09:42.860
he sued Gawker in a bankruptcy, put them out of business. Now the way that began was that Gawker

01:09:42.860 --> 01:09:48.220
had revealed that Peter Thiel was gay and Peter Thiel didn't like this. He wanted to put Gawker

01:09:48.220 --> 01:09:53.900
out of business. He hired a team of lawyers to read every Gawker article about every celebrity

01:09:54.460 --> 01:09:59.100
and find some celebrities who could bring like a defamation or invasion of privacy claim or something

01:09:59.100 --> 01:10:04.940
against Gawker. And then see if they could sign them up to bring this lawsuit. And so this team of

01:10:04.940 --> 01:10:08.620
lawyers went through all these Gawker articles and they found this stuff on Hulk Hogan. And they

01:10:08.620 --> 01:10:13.740
called Hulk Hogan and they said, Hey, would you like us to rep you for free to sue Gawker for 25

01:10:13.740 --> 01:10:19.260
million? And Hulk Hogan said, Sure. And then they went and sued Gawker and they put Gawker out of

01:10:19.260 --> 01:10:25.180
business. Right? So it took a team of lawyers going and looking for a sympathetic litigant.

01:10:26.620 --> 01:10:30.540
The other analogy that I sometimes use is Rosa Parks because a lot of people think that Rosa

01:10:30.620 --> 01:10:35.180
Parks just, you know, got off work one day, got on the bus, feet were tired, didn't want to move.

01:10:36.060 --> 01:10:42.060
But actually, no, Rosa Parks was on the board of the local NAACP. What had happened was that

01:10:42.060 --> 01:10:48.380
another woman had been kicked off the bus for refusing to move. But that woman was a pregnant

01:10:48.380 --> 01:10:52.940
teenager and they didn't want to hurt her to be the face of the movement. Rosa Parks knew this

01:10:52.940 --> 01:10:56.780
particular bus driver, knew that he was a stickler for the rules, knew that, you know,

01:10:57.500 --> 01:11:01.900
if she didn't move on that bus, that particular bus driver would make a big stink about it

01:11:01.900 --> 01:11:09.980
and got on that bus and, you know, and brought impact litigation. Okay. So it took that kind

01:11:09.980 --> 01:11:16.620
of an effort. Okay. And a lot of these cases took organization planning and money resources to do

01:11:16.620 --> 01:11:22.060
it. And that's something that you don't see anyone trying to put together right now. I don't think.

01:11:23.020 --> 01:11:27.500
Oh, man, that was a great summary. I'm so excited that you said that and said it in that way,

01:11:27.500 --> 01:11:31.820
because I think that's, that's really what we're talking about with the Seventh Amendment, right?

01:11:31.820 --> 01:11:39.100
We, we have to have the right litigant willing with the right lawyer willing and with the right

01:11:39.100 --> 01:11:47.580
strategy worked out. And nobody's playing that game right now. Well, what a shame that every lawyer

01:11:47.660 --> 01:11:54.540
who might, you know, who's already in the vaccine injury game is taking claims to the vaccine

01:11:54.540 --> 01:12:03.260
injury compensation program and has, I think, a conflict of interest against taking any other

01:12:03.260 --> 01:12:12.860
vaccine injury case that would go through another venue. Yeah, it's crazy. I mean, they must have,

01:12:12.860 --> 01:12:17.820
there must be litigants who don't need the money. I mean, I can imagine an old commercial

01:12:17.820 --> 01:12:24.940
airline pilot who doesn't really care about the $800,000 he might get, but really wants to

01:12:25.660 --> 01:12:30.700
to change something because he's a patriot. Well, don't talk too much about it right now, but,

01:12:30.700 --> 01:12:34.620
but, but, you know, don't don't give too much away. Oh, yeah. It's happened. If that's the case,

01:12:34.620 --> 01:12:40.540
but, but I would say that, you know, it, it, it certainly, yeah, it, it, it takes the right

01:12:40.540 --> 01:12:47.500
confluence of, of, of personalities and, and, and, and people with some determination and

01:12:48.060 --> 01:12:54.140
that, that, that, and I want to get back to, you know, that, that VICP program with the interim fees

01:12:54.140 --> 01:13:02.860
where lawyers get paid fees for non-meritorious claims. That has the effect of drawing every

01:13:02.860 --> 01:13:08.940
good claim in addition to all the junk claims through the vaccine injury compensation program.

01:13:08.940 --> 01:13:14.540
It has the effect of ensuring that 100% of vaccine injury lawyers are going to take

01:13:14.540 --> 01:13:19.740
cases through the vaccine injury compensation program, right? Because it's free money,

01:13:19.740 --> 01:13:28.060
it's guaranteed money, win or lose, the lawyer gets paid. And that, it is, that, it was created

01:13:28.860 --> 01:13:36.620
with the express purpose of draining the swamp of any lawyer who might take a vaccine injury case

01:13:36.620 --> 01:13:43.020
through another venue. It means the entire legal profession is barren of a lawyer who with any

01:13:43.020 --> 01:13:48.380
experience doing that sort of thing or any desire to do that sort of thing or the ability

01:13:48.380 --> 01:13:56.700
due to the conflict of interest issue. I have two questions. One is before we lose it,

01:13:57.580 --> 01:14:03.100
when you said Roberts, a Gorsuch had no problem with the Chevron deference,

01:14:04.460 --> 01:14:08.860
deference, excuse me. There's no problem killing it. No problem killing it. Okay,

01:14:08.860 --> 01:14:14.860
I just wanted to be clear with that because, again, this is another, how do you take away

01:14:14.860 --> 01:14:23.660
powers from the Supreme Court? Well, you, you continuously have, you know, steer people towards

01:14:23.660 --> 01:14:31.500
very technically complicated cases where only, you know, the science, if you will,

01:14:31.500 --> 01:14:38.380
in another agency or an executive branch can determine which way it goes, right? Right. But

01:14:38.380 --> 01:14:45.980
the other one was, let's see, you just mentioned the, oh, yeah, the vaccine injury. Do you see,

01:14:46.860 --> 01:14:52.060
in the, in the, what we refer to as the truth or dissident movement,

01:14:53.660 --> 01:14:59.660
reaffirmation of these programs of like the vaccine injury court, as they saying, oh, yeah,

01:14:59.660 --> 01:15:05.100
please, and not getting people to realize that they're effectively doubling down and pursuing

01:15:05.100 --> 01:15:12.860
something that should be outside of our constitution of our, yes, yes, because every lawyer that's

01:15:12.860 --> 01:15:21.420
doing vaccine injury litigation, if you go to their law firm website, you will see that they

01:15:21.420 --> 01:15:28.620
take their clients through the vaccine injury compensation program. So they may want to get

01:15:28.620 --> 01:15:35.100
discovery and prove certain facts about, you know, what this scientist was doing in Africa or this

01:15:35.100 --> 01:15:40.220
and this and that. Okay. But the question is, what are you going to do with it? Where's it all going?

01:15:41.100 --> 01:15:46.780
If it's just getting released to the public, then it can inform the political process.

01:15:47.740 --> 01:15:51.260
But you're not taking it to court, and you're not talking about

01:15:52.780 --> 01:15:57.340
simple things like the Seventh Amendment and the fact that there's a legislative regime

01:15:57.980 --> 01:16:04.540
designed to deprive, very neatly designed, very carefully designed to deprive people of their

01:16:04.540 --> 01:16:08.540
Seventh Amendment rights. The people who wrote this law knew what they were doing. They knew that

01:16:09.420 --> 01:16:14.940
that provision that says a judge can't review it. That's called jurisdiction stripping. And

01:16:15.900 --> 01:16:22.300
most lawyers, they've learned about jurisdiction stripping as a theoretical thing that Congress

01:16:22.300 --> 01:16:27.740
could do sometime, you know, in the future. But it's bad. If you do a Google search on jurisdiction

01:16:27.740 --> 01:16:33.820
stripping, you'll see all these op-eds that say, you know, it might be a good eye. It might be

01:16:33.820 --> 01:16:38.220
possible. It might be constitutional, but it's a bad idea. It would poison inter-branch relations.

01:16:39.020 --> 01:16:45.100
Nobody seems to recognize that it's been done, that it was done in 2005 in the PrEP Act.

01:16:45.740 --> 01:16:49.660
Okay. Nobody, I don't, if nobody's going and reading these things, I don't know.

01:16:49.660 --> 01:16:54.700
But, you know, start there. The fact that you've got a law that says a judge can't review this law,

01:16:55.740 --> 01:17:01.420
that's not normal for Congress to pass a law and say, oh, by the way, no judge can review this law

01:17:01.420 --> 01:17:09.020
and decide whether it's constitutional. But that, you know, to see that jurisdiction stripping is

01:17:09.020 --> 01:17:16.620
done, and then to look at the mechanisms that were put in place to ensure that the constitutionality

01:17:17.180 --> 01:17:24.140
would never be challenged, right? That's where the VICP and the CICP comment, right? You're doing

01:17:24.140 --> 01:17:27.660
something unconstitutional. You're stripping people. They're Seventh Amendment rights sue.

01:17:28.460 --> 01:17:33.740
But you're denying them standing because they can't show an injury because they're getting paid

01:17:33.740 --> 01:17:39.580
out by the VICP, by the taxpayers. So if they try to sue and say, this is unconstitutional,

01:17:39.580 --> 01:17:43.260
the court's going to, the district court, the trial court's going to say, well, how are you

01:17:43.260 --> 01:17:47.580
injured? You know, you could go to the VICP and you could get a free lawyer because the government

01:17:47.580 --> 01:17:52.700
paid for it, and you could get, you know, your $500,000 paid out. They recognize your vaccine

01:17:52.780 --> 01:17:58.620
injury claim. So where's the injury? You got your money, right? And if you want to say, well,

01:17:58.620 --> 01:18:03.420
I wanted to sue Pfizer. I didn't want taxpayer dollars. I wanted to get the money for Pfizer.

01:18:03.420 --> 01:18:09.820
The courts can say, hey, money's money, you know? And so you're not going to have standing. You're

01:18:09.820 --> 01:18:14.220
not going to be able to bring that lawsuit, right? In order to really bring that lawsuit,

01:18:14.220 --> 01:18:18.940
you got to have some, you got to be able to say that this VICP program is denying you some,

01:18:19.580 --> 01:18:26.700
some, it's causing you some injury. And that, you know, I'm not quite sure how you'd frame that,

01:18:26.700 --> 01:18:33.020
but, you know, I've thought on that, but it's really, we're not there yet. It's more about,

01:18:33.740 --> 01:18:38.940
you know, this was structured this way. And I should add too that that passage I opened

01:18:39.820 --> 01:18:43.020
with that law professor giving those oral remarks about these ripple effects.

01:18:43.980 --> 01:18:48.940
That person is one of the chief architects, a lot of the stuff that we're going on that we're

01:18:48.940 --> 01:18:56.460
seeing right now. His name is Cass Sunstein teaches at Harvard now. He's, you know, he works for

01:18:56.460 --> 01:19:00.780
Department of Homeland Security. Wikipedia doesn't say that. If you go to Cass Sunstein's Wikipedia

01:19:00.780 --> 01:19:05.740
page, it does not mention that he currently works for Department of Homeland Security,

01:19:05.740 --> 01:19:10.220
but he does. And he's married to Samantha Power. And he worked for Obama as well.

01:19:10.300 --> 01:19:17.340
Yes, he's a married to Samantha Power. Yes, he is. Oh, my goodness. That's right. Oh, my goodness.

01:19:17.340 --> 01:19:22.380
That's right. He gave he, yes, he gave that quote that I read at the beginning from 1989.

01:19:22.380 --> 01:19:27.500
Sunstein. Nice. Yeah. How was that spelled again? If I may.

01:19:27.500 --> 01:19:32.460
S-U-N-S-T-E-I-N. He also wrote a book called Nudge. Yes.

01:19:33.340 --> 01:19:37.260
Cognitive infiltration. Think about, you know, what, I think the way to think about these

01:19:37.260 --> 01:19:40.940
executive orders, Mark, you brought this up. An executive order comes out and it's not apparent

01:19:40.940 --> 01:19:46.300
to people that, hey, that only applies to government agencies. That's by design. Okay, that's nudging.

01:19:47.100 --> 01:19:52.380
This is, you know, the governor comes out and says, it's illegal for people to have gatherings

01:19:52.380 --> 01:19:58.780
of more than 10 people. Now, the reality is that it's probably not constitutional to enforce that.

01:19:59.420 --> 01:20:07.020
But everybody obeys it anyway. Okay. Enough people obey it. And that's all it counts, right?

01:20:07.020 --> 01:20:12.780
So with these vaccine mandates, the legalities to some extent were secondary. The fact that it

01:20:12.780 --> 01:20:17.740
might get knocked down in courts in 90 days, I think, I think that was understood because it was a

01:20:17.740 --> 01:20:21.580
really poorly written executive order. And Biden said when he issued it, he said, I'll go ahead

01:20:21.580 --> 01:20:27.100
and challenge it. I don't care. And I think the point was to get everybody into this mindset of,

01:20:27.100 --> 01:20:32.540
well, I got to run out and get back, so I'm going to lose my job, right? And that's all took. It

01:20:32.620 --> 01:20:38.460
was a nudge, right? The legalities of it were sort of insignificant. And you're right,

01:20:38.460 --> 01:20:44.460
JC, yeah, I did. I did look at it and go, this isn't going to last 90 days. And it didn't last

01:20:44.460 --> 01:20:49.580
90 days. But, you know, it didn't, but there are people who still think it's an effect.

01:20:50.700 --> 01:20:54.380
And for that matter, states can, you know, experiment and do their own thing, right? This

01:20:54.380 --> 01:20:58.540
was just a federal thing. I don't know what various states are doing.

01:20:59.500 --> 01:21:05.500
So is there any way, not just, I don't want to take too much of your time today. And I know Mark

01:21:05.500 --> 01:21:10.460
is also busy. Is there any way we can convince you to join us again for a patent law discussion

01:21:10.460 --> 01:21:15.340
about, about the antibody paradox, maybe a couple of times? Because I know it's a lot of,

01:21:16.300 --> 01:21:21.340
yeah, I mean, it's not, it's not, that's not something that. So, so patent law is, is a very

01:21:22.460 --> 01:21:28.220
deep, complicated, rich area of the law, with a lot of doctrine attached to it. And there's

01:21:28.300 --> 01:21:32.860
special qualifications that are required to even sit for the patent bar. You have to have a certain

01:21:32.860 --> 01:21:37.580
number of STEM credits and all that. And, and, and I'm in no position to really

01:21:39.500 --> 01:21:45.740
dive in deep on, on that sort of stuff. However, I do see in broad brushstrokes

01:21:46.700 --> 01:21:54.860
things that may be happening. And I think that they are connected to, I think some of the things

01:21:54.940 --> 01:22:02.300
that we're seeing in the, the vaccine skeptic movement, let's, let's call it, may be linked

01:22:03.020 --> 01:22:11.820
somewhat to the, the, the, the change in the, the legal landscape for some of these patents. I do

01:22:11.820 --> 01:22:19.820
think that areas of the law that, it's the patents that used to be more lucrative may have suddenly

01:22:19.820 --> 01:22:25.740
become less lucrative. Now, I don't know really what to make of that. I, because it's all recent,

01:22:25.740 --> 01:22:30.220
and I'm only sort of looking at it from the outside. So, well, if you could just, you know,

01:22:30.220 --> 01:22:35.020
be a light guard in a shadow, I offer a regular guys opinion. Yeah, exactly. I mean, you know,

01:22:35.020 --> 01:22:40.460
okay. Yeah, that would be wonderful. I think that would be really fun. Mark, did you have any

01:22:41.420 --> 01:22:47.740
kind of closing remarks? I think it's going to take Mark and I a while to, to imagine the

01:22:47.740 --> 01:22:54.300
possibilities with you now that you're occasionally offering your time because I do think that,

01:22:55.420 --> 01:23:00.780
you know, as a, as a regular guy who has a lot of the same concerns that we do about our kid's

01:23:00.780 --> 01:23:07.180
future and how the, how the government is going to impose its will on our kid's future.

01:23:08.940 --> 01:23:13.900
I think it would be really handy to have you as, as a more regular guest and more importantly,

01:23:14.780 --> 01:23:20.780
um, again, like a shallow end lifeguard, you know, just, just keep your hands off of everybody or

01:23:20.780 --> 01:23:25.180
where's your buddy or whatever. And don't say that because that's dumb. I think would be really

01:23:25.180 --> 01:23:30.220
helpful. And again, we're not looking for, I know you went to school and stuff, but I want to advance

01:23:30.220 --> 01:23:35.980
the discussion exactly I can. And, and, and, and you and Mark are, are people that I see that think

01:23:36.620 --> 01:23:43.580
logically and seem to be in search in a good faith search for the truth. Um, even if you get things

01:23:43.580 --> 01:23:48.780
wrong once in a while, I think your methods are sound and that's, that's what matters to me. So,

01:23:48.780 --> 01:23:54.300
yeah, sure. Uh, it's fantastic. Mark, do you have any closing remarks? I think it's a sharp spot to

01:23:55.180 --> 01:24:02.300
to, uh, I thought this was rewarding, fantastic, enlightening. Um, yeah, I'm a, I'm a big fan of yours,

01:24:02.300 --> 01:24:07.340
by the way, Mark, I meant to say that earlier. I haven't watched enough of your stuff yet to, to,

01:24:08.300 --> 01:24:15.900
uh, to, to, to even, I've watched maybe 2% of it and it's been great. So, yeah.

01:24:16.700 --> 01:24:19.180
Well, I heard it'll help improve your night's sleep as well.

01:24:21.100 --> 01:24:26.380
All right. So it's dual, it's multi, uh, it has value on multiple fronts, but I'm looking forward

01:24:26.380 --> 01:24:32.380
to more, more discussions and, um, uh, I mean, you provided wealth of knowledge before regular

01:24:32.460 --> 01:24:38.700
guy. Um, but, uh, this is still, uh, the early days, I believe. So thank you. And I'm sure the audience

01:24:38.700 --> 01:24:44.780
has enjoyed this as well. Sure. All right. Looking forward to the next time, sir. All right. Thank

01:24:44.780 --> 01:24:52.460
you very much. Okay. Take care. Mark, thank you very much for joining me. I'm sorry that I blew

01:24:52.460 --> 01:24:58.300
the three o'clock star time. That was a little bit, uh, family ball dropping there. I apologize for

01:24:58.300 --> 01:25:03.580
that. That's okay. That's okay. That's, uh, will you be doing a show this evening?

01:25:03.580 --> 01:25:10.300
You're eight o'clock Sunday night. Uh, yes, I'd like to. Okay. Um, otherwise I won't be able to fall

01:25:10.300 --> 01:25:19.020
asleep. Um, you can watch the replay and I hope you get every, each night of the week. Um,

01:25:19.020 --> 01:25:25.820
boy, I'd say what I used to have hours to dedicate each day, but it's very difficult.

01:25:25.820 --> 01:25:30.300
I wanted to ask you one more thing. I realized I haven't done this yet. I had it on my schedule

01:25:30.300 --> 01:25:39.580
already. Is there any way that I can book you for Tuesday night? Um, of course, after eight,

01:25:39.580 --> 01:25:44.220
preferably after eight. Okay. Perfect. We'll call it after eight. That's great. I'm glad I got

01:25:44.220 --> 01:25:50.460
to ask you that. Anything in particular to prepare for? Um, I'll send you an email about it. I've

01:25:50.460 --> 01:25:56.460
got a little tiny plan. Um, okay. Yeah. Okay. Sounds excellent. Thank you very much for joining

01:25:56.460 --> 01:26:00.380
me, Mark. I appreciate it. I'm so happy I finally got to introduce you to regular guy. I know you

01:26:00.380 --> 01:26:07.340
know his real name, but it's really nice to finally make it official. Um, and, uh, I look forward to

01:26:07.340 --> 01:26:12.620
talking to you on Tuesday. Please stay in touch. We'll do keep up the great work. I appreciate it.

01:26:12.620 --> 01:26:20.460
Bye. Bye, Mark. All right, guys. Um, thanks very much for adding me to your afternoon.

01:26:21.260 --> 01:26:25.580
Um, this has been Giga Home Biological, a high resistance low noise information stream brought

01:26:25.580 --> 01:26:32.860
to you by a biologist. My guess was the regular guy and Mark Koolack of Usatonic Live. Um, you can

01:26:32.860 --> 01:26:41.180
find Mark Koolack on YouTube and you can also find him, um, at usatonicits.com.

01:26:42.060 --> 01:26:48.220
Uh, I can't stress enough how his archive is probably the best archive out there when it comes

01:26:48.220 --> 01:26:57.980
to what's going on and how things are happening. Um, this has been another Scooby-Doo presentation,

01:26:58.060 --> 01:27:05.580
like Giga Home Biological, but actually not because we're now looking at finally getting the guts

01:27:05.580 --> 01:27:11.900
to talk about the legal aspects of this. And now I think we have an additional sort of

01:27:12.540 --> 01:27:18.620
wood on the fire now with regard to the antibody patent paradox. I think Mark and I are both

01:27:18.620 --> 01:27:26.460
really interested in opening the lid on that thing and looking inside. Um, and I think, uh, now

01:27:27.020 --> 01:27:32.940
we're kind of ready to do it. So look forward to the coming weeks. Mark and I are going to continue

01:27:32.940 --> 01:27:39.180
to challenge each other to stream more often and with better content. And I'm going to keep challenging

01:27:39.180 --> 01:27:47.020
myself to, uh, show up every day as well. So keep the pressure on, steady pressure is what's working.

01:27:47.020 --> 01:27:51.660
Thank you very much for joining me. Make sure you share the stream more than anything else.

01:27:51.660 --> 01:27:58.460
Please share it, tweet it, Facebook and whatever. Um, that's how this works. And please support Mark

01:27:58.460 --> 01:28:01.100
if you can. Thanks very much for joining me.

