WEBVTT

00:07.385 --> 00:07.685
Testing 1, 2.

00:08.386 --> 00:08.686
Test 1, 2.

00:09.066 --> 00:13.968
This is Gigaohm Biological, a high-resistance, low-noise information brief brought to you by a biologist.

00:14.008 --> 00:16.610
You can share this stream at stream.gigaohm.bio.

00:17.150 --> 00:22.352
If you want to be notified of the stream, please send an email to that address on the screen.

00:22.973 --> 00:24.873
I'm going to start the stream quite quick today.

00:24.993 --> 00:26.234
No big introduction.

00:35.629 --> 00:47.031
I think one of the themes of my work over the last five years has been trying to get the noise out of the way, to try and get the specks of dust out of our eyes so that we can clearly see where we are.

00:48.012 --> 00:58.274
I've tried to remain focused on the biology, I've tried not to take the bait on social media, and I've tried to encourage you all to love your neighbors and not the

00:59.238 --> 01:03.802
the individuals, the imaginary people on social media, but your real neighbors.

01:04.082 --> 01:07.885
And I think we all still have a lot of work to do in that regard.

01:08.445 --> 01:13.529
I'm also trying to teach a new biology 101.

01:15.171 --> 01:16.231
And that's a lot of work.

01:16.312 --> 01:18.413
That's a book, maybe two books.

01:18.493 --> 01:21.936
That's a high school course.

01:23.536 --> 01:28.920
And so I'm pretty busy with that in the background, and I'm really passionate about it.

01:29.361 --> 01:38.888
And so those courses are coming, but today was really such an important chance, opportunity to talk to someone that I decided not to pass up on it.

01:38.968 --> 01:46.734
So the normal, you know, the normal program today, which would be GigaOM Biological's New Biology 101 and a lecture about that.

01:47.832 --> 01:53.754
We are going to bypass that and try to do something a little different and take advantage of where we are.

01:54.354 --> 01:56.474
The voice you're hearing is that of Jonathan Cooey.

01:56.614 --> 02:00.615
I am the chief biologist here in the back of my garage in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.

02:01.075 --> 02:07.137
You can find my work on the Library of Medicine's PubMed website under cooey-jj, the first two initials.

02:08.097 --> 02:09.418
I helped Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

02:09.438 --> 02:11.699
write the Wuhan cover-up book, and now he ignores me.

02:11.719 --> 02:15.300
I was also hired by Children's Health Defense, and then they fired me.

02:15.741 --> 02:20.883
I'm a good friend of Jay Bhattacharya, but since he got a job as NIH director, he doesn't call me anymore.

02:20.903 --> 02:23.144
I'm also good buddies with a guy in Tokyo who

02:23.764 --> 02:47.250
works with Steve Kirsch and I also have a fan on Substack who steals my work and pretends it hers while she's arguing with people like Claire Craig and Pierre Corey who are known meddlers in this multinational sort of scheme to trick everybody about about public health and and so anyway, she writes a lot of this stuff with a guy from Panda named Jonathan Engler.

02:47.370 --> 02:47.690
Anyway,

02:48.651 --> 02:51.454
You might not know that you've been seeing my work in their work.

02:51.474 --> 02:53.316
You might not have known where this is.

02:53.396 --> 02:55.938
But today, Giga Home Biological is doing a special report.

02:55.958 --> 03:00.083
I'm going to interview a woman by the name of Paula Adkin.

03:00.904 --> 03:02.846
And I see that is spelled wrong there.

03:02.906 --> 03:04.567
That's supposed to be E-N.

03:06.349 --> 03:06.870
There we go.

03:08.125 --> 03:16.068
And I think it's really important to put this into perspective, so just let me put myself down here really quick.

03:16.929 --> 03:25.812
I'm making the argument that all the populations in the UK and in Scotland and in the Netherlands and in Germany and in America and in Japan and in China

03:26.492 --> 03:30.196
all had an anticipated rise in all-cause mortality coming.

03:30.576 --> 03:34.340
They had an excess number of old people and a shortage of young people.

03:34.740 --> 03:44.549
That's one of the reasons why across Europe and in America there's this move to migrate people here because they're trying to fill in the bottom of the population pyramid that's really top-heavy.

03:45.009 --> 03:48.733
But that top-heavy population pyramid was anticipated for decades.

03:49.761 --> 04:07.934
And what they did was they murdered people in Scotland, they murdered people in the UK, they murdered people in the United States, and they told us that it was a virus that was spreading, when in reality, it was just a lot of sophisticated lies covering up that murder and an anticipated rise in all-cause mortality that made it real convenient for them to do it.

04:08.474 --> 04:11.276
That's what this myth of an RNA pandemic is based on.

04:11.336 --> 04:12.918
Now, the really sketchy part is,

04:13.738 --> 04:17.380
is that it's for all the marbles, it's for all the grandchildren of Earth.

04:18.000 --> 04:34.967
And involved in this sort of wrestling ourselves, breaking ourselves out of this mystery-solving exercise of COVID-19, we have been led to the goal by people like Robert F. Kennedy Jr., and ICANN, and Big Tree, and

04:35.447 --> 04:45.781
and people as far back as Andrew Wakefield, their golden boy, the guy who started that movement, this fake anti-vaccine movement, which was actually probably fake in its roots.

04:46.261 --> 04:53.591
And we've been kind of waxing intellectual about how weird it is that Andrew Wakefield has a paper with Peter Daszak about measles,

04:54.011 --> 05:11.356
And now 20 years later, he's still kind of involved with MMR and measles and how the same act that he did in the 90s and early 2000s in the UK seems to be recycled behind CHD and ICANN in America right now, behind the Trump administration and the rise of Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

05:11.396 --> 05:14.117
And so it's a pretty bold statement to make.

05:14.557 --> 05:15.978
I think talking about

05:16.718 --> 05:19.261
understanding this background is really where it's at.

05:19.301 --> 05:21.923
That's what I'm trying to do with my biology.

05:21.963 --> 05:35.497
I'm not really a sleuth, but I do know that this bad biology where they say that DNA is everything and it's all genes and evolution is real because DNA is real, this bad biology is being used to cover up that murder.

05:36.854 --> 05:39.936
This bad biology is what the PCR test is based on.

05:39.976 --> 05:48.821
It's what all these stupid protocols are based on, and this clueless nature of this idea that we murdered people, that not giving people antibiotics is murder.

05:49.321 --> 05:50.962
It's not just the wrong protocol.

05:51.422 --> 06:02.428
And so I'm trying to coach everybody on the way out of this with this new biology, life is a pattern, integrity with a trajectory across time, and that's all what we were due today.

06:04.617 --> 06:33.326
Imagine the possibility that we could talk to somebody who already knew that the hypothetical fake anti-vax movement that I was kind of just calling out to see what people would say at first really is, has its roots in a scientific fraud, has its roots in a scientific snake oil salesman that was probably recruited and put in place decades ago to curate a narrative

06:34.471 --> 06:40.335
so that nobody would ever realize that intramuscular injection in general is just dumb.

06:40.856 --> 06:48.441
That putting a combination of substances into the arm or to the buttocks of a healthy young child is absurd.

06:49.582 --> 06:50.883
And today I have the

06:52.336 --> 06:55.838
privilege of talking to the mom of child number four.

06:56.058 --> 07:03.963
And to put that into perspective, what I mean to show you is child number four here in this book, Callous Disregard.

07:04.424 --> 07:06.585
It is a Skyhorse publishing book.

07:06.645 --> 07:11.068
Skyhorse is the book publisher that Children's Health Defense sells all the books of that

07:11.508 --> 07:19.158
published all three of Robert Malone's books, published James Lyons Wyler's book, and published multiple books for Andrew Wakefield.

07:19.178 --> 07:20.059
This is his first.

07:20.419 --> 07:24.544
The second one was Waging War on the Autistic Child, which was published in 2012.

07:24.765 --> 07:26.487
This book was published in 2010.

07:26.907 --> 07:29.951
And so to put Paula's

07:30.752 --> 07:32.133
story into perspective.

07:32.874 --> 07:35.156
I wanted to read the first chapter of this book.

07:36.037 --> 07:39.300
Maybe I should, maybe I'm being really, this is not the right way to do it.

07:39.400 --> 07:40.101
I apologize.

07:40.581 --> 07:48.569
Let me switch back over here and cut and put Paula on the screen.

07:50.671 --> 07:52.352
Thank you very much, Paula, for joining me.

07:52.412 --> 07:53.873
Everybody can see you and hear you.

07:55.415 --> 08:06.984
With your permission, before I ask you to introduce yourself and kind of take the floor, I'd like to read the first chapter of this book just because I think it will refresh your memory as to the

08:08.078 --> 08:24.463
I've been calling it when we talked yesterday and this morning, an oversimplified version of your experience with your son, your successes with your son, and your experience with these people in terms of how they, I guess the best words would be that they co-opted your son's

08:25.680 --> 08:34.882
history, medical history, and tried to make it something that fit a narrative that they probably already had hatched out before you ever met them.

08:36.382 --> 08:37.963
So let's just do that quick.

08:38.583 --> 08:40.683
Let me slide over here.

08:40.723 --> 08:41.424
How would I do this?

08:41.484 --> 08:42.364
I would do this.

08:42.944 --> 08:43.744
I would do this.

08:44.424 --> 08:45.504
Yes, there we go.

08:45.604 --> 08:48.005
And then I put myself down in the corner here.

08:48.585 --> 08:51.786
So this is chapter one of the Callous Disregard book.

08:52.991 --> 09:03.215
On February 28th, 1998, 12 colleagues and I published a case series paper in The Lancet, and that is the paper that features Paula's son.

09:03.715 --> 09:06.557
A respected medical journal as an early report.

09:07.277 --> 09:16.921
The paper described the clinical findings of 12 children with an autistic spectrum disorder occurring in association with a mild to moderate inflammation of the large intestine.

09:17.421 --> 09:23.725
This was accompanied by swelling of the lymph glands in the intestinal lining, predominantly in the last part of the small intestine.

09:24.385 --> 09:38.974
Contemporaneously, parents of nine children associated with onset symptoms, associated onset of symptoms with measles, mumps, and rubella vaccine exposure, eight of whom were reported on in the original paper.

09:39.034 --> 09:41.556
And so your child was number four, is that correct?

09:42.437 --> 09:42.597
Yeah.

09:43.584 --> 09:51.372
And so the significance of these findings has been overshadowed by misunderstanding, misrepresentation, and a concerted systematic effort to discredit the work.

09:51.913 --> 10:03.344
This effort, and specifically the complaint of a freelance journalist, I think his name is Brian Deer, had an intense political desire to subvert inquiry into the issues of vaccine safety.

10:03.985 --> 10:13.030
and legal redress for vaccine damage, culminated in the longest running, most expensive fitness to practice case ever to come before.

10:13.731 --> 10:18.153
So it's a pretty interesting, it seems like it's a cut and dried case.

10:18.173 --> 10:20.014
He had eight kids, they were all the same.

10:21.595 --> 10:33.082
And he's now suffered apparently 20 years of really just having the roughest life, having to deal with the consequences of

10:35.156 --> 10:39.479
of having come out with your child as one of the stories.

10:39.599 --> 10:42.742
So what's not right about that angle?

10:44.123 --> 10:45.844
Please, please, I apologize.

10:45.904 --> 10:51.248
Please take the time to introduce yourself, where you're from, how long this has really been.

10:51.288 --> 10:54.270
Try to put it in perspective like you did yesterday as much as you can.

10:54.310 --> 11:01.536
And I have plenty of notes here to try and steer you and keep you on focus, but you did wonderfully yesterday.

11:01.556 --> 11:02.517
I'm sure you're gonna do fine today.

11:05.031 --> 11:09.960
Well, what I would like to say is there's more to the Lancet study than what we see.

11:09.980 --> 11:13.707
I in the world has been totally fooled by all of those in the controversy.

11:17.523 --> 11:20.005
Colin, my son, is 38 now.

11:20.025 --> 11:23.488
It's been 27 years this has been going on.

11:24.509 --> 11:26.831
The study was done in 1996.

11:28.273 --> 11:29.514
Well, he went to the hospital in 1996.

11:29.874 --> 11:35.639
I'd just like to say a little bit about him before he had the vaccinations.

11:36.420 --> 11:56.738
He was born double breech, he had jaundice and he was a month early but he was a very happy contented baby and then when he was 11 months old he started getting a lot of infections, chest infections, throat infections, ear infections, gastroenteritis and he had antibiotic after antibiotic.

11:56.878 --> 12:01.642
I don't know how many he had but just almost every month he was on antibiotics for a couple of years.

12:02.583 --> 12:22.621
what you did is your doctors told you as a parent you assumed that they knew best but what started happening was they started getting what was called patchy development so you would develop so far and then you would be at standstill for a little while and you didn't lose any skills at first

12:23.476 --> 12:27.237
but he did start getting diarrhoea from around about a year old.

12:28.418 --> 12:31.379
And that's when he was being given all the antibiotics.

12:31.539 --> 12:38.742
And I think what it was doing was it was ruining his immune system and it was destroying the good bacteria that we need.

12:39.902 --> 12:44.804
But I didn't know anything about things like that in them days, so I just kept taking him back to the doctors all the time.

12:45.925 --> 12:46.365
And then

12:47.205 --> 12:56.376
One of the first things I noticed was he had started walking around the furniture when he was around about 11-12 months but then he just never walked and then he started crawling.

12:58.018 --> 13:03.665
So he was kind of losing skills a little bit there and he was potty trained and then he lost that.

13:04.696 --> 13:08.440
And then when he was 18 months, I realized he had stopped talking.

13:08.600 --> 13:16.268
He had said some words, mom, dad, nana, hello, all appropriate and at appropriate times, and he had just lost all of his speech.

13:16.809 --> 13:18.791
But he was still happy, still content.

13:19.051 --> 13:24.897
He still played, but his development seemed to be slowing down a little bit.

13:25.999 --> 13:36.912
So I started getting some investigations done and he ended up having bromelain as he has and he ended up having a hearing aid, but he's not deaf.

13:37.953 --> 13:42.258
And then what happened was he just become more and more ill.

13:44.814 --> 13:52.437
And then he did get diagnosed as having learning disabilities, but I was told that when he was eight, he might be like five-year-old.

13:53.818 --> 14:04.122
But he didn't appear to have autism initially, but when I've looked back now, he did start having some signs when he was around about two, it's just I didn't know the signs at that time.

14:04.482 --> 14:09.524
But because he was so happy and content, I wasn't really that worried.

14:10.771 --> 14:11.752
And then what happened?

14:11.772 --> 14:17.857
And so at this time, he did at this time, he didn't have acute GI problems.

14:18.638 --> 14:22.861
No, he did have diarrhea, but it got much, much worse later.

14:24.223 --> 14:31.469
So what happened was he at the age four, he got MMR.

14:32.609 --> 14:37.551
and DPT, you said, DPT vaccinations all in one day.

14:38.231 --> 14:40.252
So you've got six vaccinations on one day.

14:40.372 --> 14:44.593
I don't know why he was sent for that many, because I have since read that that should never, ever happen.

14:45.794 --> 14:46.934
But I didn't know that.

14:47.234 --> 14:49.275
You just did what you were told to do.

14:49.975 --> 14:54.237
And there was no immediate reaction that I can recall.

14:54.917 --> 15:00.159
But within a couple of weeks, he did start, he started

15:00.629 --> 15:07.015
getting a little bit hyperactive, but within six weeks he had lost every single skill that he had.

15:07.976 --> 15:11.740
The only thing he was left able to do was feed himself with his phone.

15:14.082 --> 15:16.864
And he went hyperactive.

15:17.145 --> 15:17.845
He didn't sleep.

15:17.945 --> 15:21.148
I got two to three hours sleep every night for the next few years.

15:21.168 --> 15:23.770
And I put him on a diet.

15:24.370 --> 15:26.032
And he just didn't know who I was.

15:26.052 --> 15:29.775
And he was an absolute total world of his own.

15:30.015 --> 15:33.678
He lost his eye contact, which you can see on the photographs.

15:33.698 --> 15:39.242
He was a beautiful, smiling baby before he had lost his eye contact.

15:39.482 --> 15:40.143
And he was just...

15:42.446 --> 15:46.952
He was just in a total daze and he became very noise sensitive.

15:48.114 --> 15:49.476
Yeah, that's the photograph.

15:50.117 --> 15:53.902
I think that was about a year and a half after the one where he's got no eye contact.

15:53.922 --> 15:56.586
He's got his hands on his ears because he couldn't bear noise.

15:57.608 --> 16:07.038
So when I used to take him out, if there was a bus went past or a motorbike or anything like that, he would have a massive tantrum in the middle of the street because he couldn't bear the noise.

16:07.058 --> 16:11.622
He used to hit his head with his hands all the time.

16:11.642 --> 16:14.225
And it was because he didn't like the noise.

16:14.245 --> 16:15.987
He didn't like crowds.

16:16.707 --> 16:19.970
And in them days, there was only one in 10,000 autistic children.

16:20.050 --> 16:24.734
So my son was the only one in the area and there was nobody else.

16:25.755 --> 16:36.485
So when I used to take him into the local town, he would have these mass tantrums in the town and people would look at me and say, has that mother got no control over that child?

16:37.786 --> 16:39.968
But nobody knew, you know,

16:41.449 --> 16:44.933
that he had been normal and this had just kind of happened within weeks really.

16:46.855 --> 16:56.425
So like I had remembered seeing a documentary a year or two before on autism and I was asking the question, is he autistic?

16:56.845 --> 17:04.393
But initially I was being told no because he still did have some affection at first but then he did lose that in time as well.

17:05.916 --> 17:12.922
But the other thing that happened within a couple of months of getting all of those vaccinations was the diarrhoea got very, very severe.

17:13.243 --> 17:16.806
And he had diarrhoea over 10, 11, 12 times a day.

17:17.486 --> 17:20.129
And it was very foul smelling, watery.

17:20.970 --> 17:23.472
And it just went straight through him.

17:23.672 --> 17:24.993
And he was in a lot of pain.

17:25.373 --> 17:28.356
And he used to scream on and off all day in pain.

17:28.736 --> 17:30.318
He was banging his head off the walls.

17:31.175 --> 17:33.236
He was banging his feet off the radiators.

17:33.937 --> 17:37.839
And it was just his way of trying to communicate that he was in all this pain.

17:38.459 --> 17:46.624
And the only way I could calm him was to literally get him on the floor and kind of roll my arms around him and massage him.

17:47.824 --> 17:49.845
And there was nothing else I could do for him.

17:50.986 --> 17:57.690
And one of the other noticeable things was I had a group of friends that I had been friends with for years when we all went to college together.

17:59.332 --> 18:22.371
and I had to stop him coming to the house because my son used to get really really upset because there was a few other little children there and he couldn't bear the noise and he couldn't bear being in a room where there was more than one person talking at a time and he used to go up to his bedroom to get out the way and so I had to stop all socializing and he had to be on his own really.

18:23.968 --> 18:32.371
So then what happened after that was, it was mother's gut instinct really, but I knew that he was reacting to phones.

18:32.591 --> 18:34.852
By this time he had started reacting to phones.

18:36.073 --> 18:37.393
Can I pause you for a second?

18:37.593 --> 18:38.714
Can I pause you for a second?

18:39.294 --> 18:48.258
This is not meant any other way than your phone, your phone microphone combined with your accent sometimes makes it challenging for some of these Americans over here.

18:48.838 --> 18:51.099
So she's saying, she's saying that,

18:52.446 --> 18:54.607
that she was sure that he was reacting to food.

18:55.167 --> 18:56.367
It was a mother's instinct.

18:57.027 --> 18:59.688
She even had a pun there where she's like, it's a mother's gut instinct.

19:01.508 --> 19:04.769
So she's about to explain what she did in response to this.

19:04.829 --> 19:07.750
So just making sure everybody knows what you're saying and maybe you can catch up.

19:07.770 --> 19:08.450
So go ahead, please.

19:09.690 --> 19:11.391
I'll try and talk a little bit slower.

19:11.531 --> 19:12.511
No, it's okay, really.

19:12.651 --> 19:16.112
It's just hard to mix these sounds together.

19:16.152 --> 19:16.552
So go ahead.

19:18.680 --> 19:22.923
So he was nearly six years old and I decided to put him on a diet.

19:23.243 --> 19:31.328
And I realized that it was every Sunday night when he was getting sweets off my mother that he would never sleep at all on that night.

19:31.348 --> 19:33.529
So I thought when he's reacting to the colorings.

19:34.410 --> 19:42.014
So what I did was I put him on a diet and there was no books in them days, no internet, nothing to help you, nothing written on autism.

19:43.055 --> 19:46.097
So I put him on a wheat-free, dairy-free,

19:46.770 --> 19:49.571
sugar-free and added a free diet.

19:50.652 --> 19:52.213
And the first week was hell.

19:53.093 --> 19:55.114
But I didn't really know anything then.

19:55.214 --> 19:56.835
I nearly took him off the diet.

19:57.996 --> 20:02.898
But it was all the toxins coming out of his body, as I learned years later.

20:03.398 --> 20:08.201
And on the seventh night, the day I was going to stop it, he slept all night for 12 hours.

20:08.721 --> 20:10.482
and he hadn't done that for about three years.

20:12.423 --> 20:16.104
So that was the start of like some healing taking place.

20:17.004 --> 20:20.386
And he's almost slept every night ever since, unless he's got the wrong food.

20:22.446 --> 20:23.627
No interruptions at all.

20:23.647 --> 20:27.068
And then I healed his bowels.

20:27.128 --> 20:28.289
It took us about a year.

20:29.789 --> 20:31.710
But I didn't just use diet.

20:31.830 --> 20:36.272
I also used probiotics and antifungals

20:36.992 --> 20:44.394
because I believe that he got candida, which is a structure of the bowel and I believe that was brought on by the overuse of antibiotics.

20:46.555 --> 20:55.817
So I did that and I did get some setbacks as I was doing that because I was obviously disturbing the bowel and he did get some bouts of diarrhea again.

20:55.837 --> 21:01.779
And I had a local dietician that wanted to get involved and she was wanting to introduce foods.

21:02.419 --> 21:06.001
Again, far too quickly and too many foods at a time.

21:06.401 --> 21:12.663
And he started reacting again with his behavior problems and his gut problems.

21:12.803 --> 21:16.185
So I told the dietician I wanted to do it on my own.

21:19.026 --> 21:21.287
And then it took just over a year.

21:21.307 --> 21:24.528
He did get a couple of really bad infections in that time as well.

21:24.948 --> 21:30.050
But after about 12, 13 months, his bowel problems were gone.

21:31.273 --> 21:32.894
and he had been very, very ill.

21:34.154 --> 21:40.957
The pain went, so he wasn't hitting his head anymore, he wasn't banging his head off the walls anymore, it had all been pain-related.

21:42.157 --> 21:46.899
So, call it what you want to, I'd healed, I always say healed, healed his gut.

21:49.400 --> 21:59.244
So I did that, and then what happened was a guy called Paul Shattuck, he's from Sunderland University in the UK,

22:00.485 --> 22:02.546
and he's an autism researcher.

22:02.566 --> 22:12.253
I found out what I was doing with the diet and he asked if he could come out and see us and talk about the effects that I had been getting.

22:12.593 --> 22:14.275
Can you spell Paul's last name?

22:15.656 --> 22:21.320
Yes, it's S-H-A-T-T-O-C-K.

22:21.960 --> 22:22.681
Very good, thank you.

22:24.537 --> 22:39.764
He came out in October 1994, and he spent a good four hours or so at the house, and he said he was with his daughter at the time, who was doing some kind of study around that subject.

22:39.804 --> 22:41.004
That's what he had called his.

22:41.465 --> 22:43.446
But how would he have heard of you?

22:43.506 --> 22:44.626
How would he have heard of you?

22:45.687 --> 22:51.389
I'm not sure, but I've been trying to think back, and I've got a lot of notes, you know, in different places.

22:54.625 --> 23:21.927
there's another story behind that that because I was all at the time I was getting newsletters from um rimland in in in america bernard rimland um he ran like an autism research unit okay in america and I had been getting newsletters from there and he was a guy that had an autistic child um and they were in they were doing different therapies and things um

23:23.673 --> 23:26.357
So I don't know if it was something to do with that.

23:29.682 --> 23:34.049
After I put him on the diet, I found out about a group called the Allergy Induced Autism Group.

23:35.260 --> 23:37.102
and which is a British group.

23:40.065 --> 23:43.709
And so I don't know if it was through one of those people.

23:43.769 --> 23:46.332
I can't remember exactly how I got in touch with them.

23:46.812 --> 23:53.199
But I do know the year before he came out that I had spoke to somebody on the phone and I had I actually wrote to them.

23:53.219 --> 23:55.161
So I don't know where I got the information from.

23:55.221 --> 23:58.124
But I wrote to them asking for information on autism.

23:59.708 --> 24:13.383
So anyway he came out and I gave him what he said in a letter within days was copious amounts of information and then he had a theory

24:14.884 --> 24:27.428
I mean one of the things that I was quite surprised about years later was I had mentioned Dr Wakefield who I had been told about and I had mentioned about vaccines causing autism and he denied that he'd ever heard of Dr Wakefield.

24:27.448 --> 24:31.530
He said he had never heard of him and he had never heard of vaccines causing autism.

24:32.250 --> 24:38.435
But I know this is a lie now, because I found out years later that he had already been doing some research with Dr. Wakefield.

24:40.557 --> 24:50.785
And they were researching something to do with peptides that were derived from incomplete breakdown of wheat and milk.

24:51.405 --> 24:52.466
Wow.

24:53.907 --> 24:54.488
OK.

24:55.949 --> 24:56.850
This is crazy.

24:58.406 --> 25:03.110
But I had told him that I had my son on a wheat and dairy-free diet.

25:04.010 --> 25:10.375
But what he said at the meeting was, I'm not sure what he meant by it, but he said I was four months ahead of his research.

25:10.915 --> 25:20.382
I don't know if he meant I'd started my diet four months before he started doing his research, but I think he had just started his research when he came to see me.

25:21.882 --> 25:31.007
But I did, it can be, somebody might be able to find out, but him and Wakefield apparently had done this research, and I thought it was just Paul Shattuck.

25:31.067 --> 25:35.029
I knew nothing about Wakefield doing it until I read about it in 2016.

25:35.529 --> 25:36.029
Wow.

25:38.090 --> 25:40.551
That's, it's a weird admission, right?

25:40.591 --> 25:44.013
Because you don't know why they would lie to you, but clearly he's lying to you.

25:44.053 --> 25:46.394
I mean, if the notes are right, he's lying to you.

25:46.454 --> 25:47.695
That's remarkable.

25:49.182 --> 26:01.040
so he okay go ahead sorry i interrupted you my bad so what is paul what what does paul try to do does he steal your does he steal your ideas or does he interview you about the diet a lot or not really

26:02.763 --> 26:16.611
Well, he just came to the house, he just wanted all of the information on what I had done and what positive things I had gotten out of it, you know, like healing his gut, which I think I'd already said on the phone, but like he came out to get lots of detail.

26:17.111 --> 26:21.953
But I've always been a note-taker, so I give him loads of notes.

26:22.674 --> 26:26.756
I give him everything I've given him, all of his reactions and things.

26:30.322 --> 26:32.844
So that was that.

26:33.724 --> 26:38.767
But one of the next things that happened, there was a sequence of events, really.

26:38.788 --> 26:43.751
I had already started going to a carer center where I live in North Shields.

26:45.192 --> 26:47.993
And there was a lady there called Sandy McKean.

26:48.554 --> 26:50.775
And she was a nurse advisor.

26:51.616 --> 26:54.358
And she had an autistic son.

26:54.938 --> 26:57.780
And she believed that the vaccines had damaged him.

26:58.760 --> 27:11.938
So I was going down there, like to go to kind of a support group type of thing, and there was a note on the wall, like a printout, and it was a story of a child.

27:12.038 --> 27:16.103
I can't remember if it was her child or if it was somebody else's because it was a long time ago.

27:16.864 --> 27:21.626
but it was about a child and I couldn't believe that it just sounded like my child.

27:21.806 --> 27:42.374
This child apparently had had MMR and he had regressed, lost skills, got bowel problems and so I started talking to Sandy and she was guiding and advising us on what to do and she thought that it was MMR that had caused his problems

27:43.715 --> 28:05.475
So what I had done was set up a support group with jabs from a place called Cheshire and as far as I know it was the only other jabs group within England and it was a lady called Jackie Fletcher that had set it up and ran this jabs group.

28:09.395 --> 28:17.383
So that was within weeks, eight weeks I think, or it was within weeks anyway of meeting Paul Shatner.

28:18.204 --> 28:21.887
So now let me just clarify for everybody listening as I'm taking notes here.

28:21.967 --> 28:26.011
So somebody by the name of Sandy McKean has an autistic son,

28:27.152 --> 28:49.639
that she's blaming on vaccines and they kind of happen to meet or come in contact because Paula sees a poster at the place where she goes every once in a while that seems to describe another child that's eerily similar to hers and her experience up until this point has been that her son is the only example she knows of.

28:50.319 --> 28:57.021
So at the time, it seemed very serendipitous and she probably was very happy or maybe got a little bit of hope from that.

28:57.562 --> 29:10.746
But in retrospect, after years and years of everything else that's gone on, it almost seems like they came to her town and established a jabs group in her town specifically because her kid is in that town.

29:10.786 --> 29:13.227
Am I kind of getting that feeling right?

29:14.531 --> 29:16.193
I think so, yeah, yeah.

29:16.453 --> 29:27.563
I mean, at the time I believed everybody and I trusted everybody and I didn't realise there was any power of people, but it just seems it was a sequence of events that happened.

29:28.584 --> 29:38.193
So what happened after that, which was again, very shortly after that, it was September 94 that Paul came to see me and then in November,

29:39.967 --> 29:47.413
94, the 19th of November 94, to be precise, there was a meeting at a town hall in the next town to me.

29:47.433 --> 30:02.964
In that meeting, the people that were there included Richard Ball, who was the solicitor from Hodge Jones and Allens, I think it was called initially,

30:04.731 --> 30:18.062
was down south in London I think it was and he was the main solicitor that was dealing with the MMR cases and so he was there and there was somebody called Dr Corville from the public health laboratory

30:19.281 --> 30:21.644
and Jackie Fletcher from JABS.

30:22.284 --> 30:39.982
She came up from Cheshire and obviously Sandy was there and there was there was lots of other people there but there was a newspaper article which I do have a copy of and it actually said it's titled JABS safety fear for flood hotline

30:41.411 --> 30:49.656
And it talks about Sandy and how she's been inundated with phone calls from people as far as Australia.

30:51.417 --> 30:59.802
And it talks about the MMR and then it tells you about this meeting at the town hall and when it's going to be and the people that are going to be there.

31:00.703 --> 31:10.469
So I actually went to that meeting and they were basically guiding people on taking legal action.

31:13.779 --> 31:34.287
So, but what, what Sandy had, I think she'd already suggested it, was for me to see a solicitor in Newcastle and what the local solicitor, and I went to see this solicitor in 1995, and I'd give them all the details about what had happened to Colin, about his, you know, his history, and, and,

31:38.115 --> 31:38.575
left it.

31:38.635 --> 31:47.641
What happened was, well actually it was a man solicitor at first, but what happened was he left the case lying on his desk for six months and never heard anything.

31:48.341 --> 31:54.905
So I wrote, I wrote to them and then the solicitor that was in charge seen it and got the file back out.

31:56.366 --> 32:01.069
But after a while, she kind of said that she didn't think I was going to get legal aid.

32:03.362 --> 32:10.584
But she also, at the same time, was writing to the main solicitors and telling them about my case.

32:10.764 --> 32:14.364
But I actually think I was being guided towards the main solicitors.

32:17.025 --> 32:21.205
You know, whether that was deliberate, whether they left it lying for six months, I don't know.

32:21.285 --> 32:24.446
But I was guided towards the main solicitors.

32:25.326 --> 32:29.407
So I went back to see Sandy because I was obviously in touch with her quite a bit.

32:30.942 --> 32:51.011
Let me just say while you're here to make sure that the parallel is seen here because, and you might not be aware of this, but in America, the lawsuits that are fighting against COVID or COVID mandates or COVID injuries or COVID protocols or whatever,

32:51.969 --> 32:56.431
are being sort of herded into a couple different groups, right?

32:56.811 --> 33:05.876
Children's Health Defense has some lawyers, ICANN has some lawyers, and you can't really find an independent lawyer to take your case and do it.

33:05.976 --> 33:14.060
And you're sort of left in the lurch until you find your way into one of these groups of people that I don't think is ever going to fight for you.

33:14.100 --> 33:15.421
And so it's a very curious

33:16.181 --> 33:24.828
part of the story for me that you sought, you know, independent legal address and then ended up having to go with everybody else anyway.

33:24.888 --> 33:28.371
So I don't think you're crazy for thinking that you were funneled there.

33:29.672 --> 33:31.013
Yeah.

33:31.293 --> 33:39.080
Just before I forget, because I'm going on to something different, but I'll just mention it could be absolutely totally coincidence, but Sandy McKean was actually murdered.

33:40.794 --> 33:44.976
around about 2000, 2001, at the height of the controversy.

33:46.757 --> 33:49.698
I mean, obviously, people can look that up if they want to.

33:49.758 --> 33:56.761
I remember looking it up myself, and from what I remember reading, she got murdered in her own bed overnight.

33:57.862 --> 34:01.803
And it was apparently from somebody that she was seeing on the internet.

34:01.823 --> 34:05.425
She was apparently having an affair and seeing somebody once a fortnight on the internet.

34:06.653 --> 34:10.978
and apparently the next day they got caught.

34:11.658 --> 34:19.727
I'm just mentioning that because it just seems like there's been a few murders amongst people that are involved in this controversy.

34:20.528 --> 34:23.271
Can you give me Sandy's last name?

34:24.612 --> 34:25.133
McKean.

34:25.833 --> 34:28.296
It's M-C and then K-E-A-N?

34:29.574 --> 34:33.356
Yeah, I think that's how you spell it, yeah.

34:33.416 --> 34:35.117
She had an autistic son as well.

34:37.758 --> 34:39.879
So you went to the town hall meeting.

34:40.439 --> 34:41.320
That's where you left off.

34:42.840 --> 34:46.682
Yeah, and then I did end up changing solicitors.

34:46.742 --> 34:47.923
It did take a little while.

34:47.943 --> 34:56.567
And then those cases went on from... I mean, I first started out in 95, where I was

34:58.240 --> 35:02.783
you know, go to the local health authority and finding out what vaccinations and things you have.

35:04.364 --> 35:12.308
I think it was something like 96, 97 when I was with the new solicitor and it went on till I think it was 2007.

35:12.849 --> 35:26.797
And Richard Barr actually changed solicitors, that's three times, he moved into three separate solicitor's offices, like different companies, kept changing companies.

35:28.883 --> 35:47.438
And one of the things I think I should probably mention that happened in September 2008 was I got a letter from Isabella Thomas, who was one of the main campaigning parents, which is also Lancet 12 parents with two children in the study.

35:49.940 --> 35:56.265
And I got a letter from her asking if I would

35:58.467 --> 36:00.468
back Dr. Wakefield up.

36:01.788 --> 36:09.390
And I don't know if I should backtrack and talk about when I went to the hospital, because that was actually before, long before this.

36:10.250 --> 36:12.791
When you went to the hospital for Wakefield?

36:13.911 --> 36:14.171
Yeah.

36:14.451 --> 36:15.031
Yeah, OK.

36:15.131 --> 36:20.153
I mean, that definitely we should back up to that, because I kind of was wondering whether we skipped that or not.

36:20.193 --> 36:20.433
I was.

36:20.973 --> 36:21.753
But yes, please.

36:21.833 --> 36:22.053
So.

36:23.194 --> 36:23.294
So.

36:25.892 --> 36:30.242
So it was September the 29th 1996 that he went to the hospital.

36:34.694 --> 36:41.856
And I don't know why, but some papers that you read say it was September the 15th, 1996 on the internet.

36:42.196 --> 36:48.939
So, but I do know there was, one of that child was referred on September 1996 as well.

36:49.219 --> 36:53.120
So, I don't know why it's written down as two different things, but I know because I kept the diary.

36:53.400 --> 36:54.720
I know exactly when he went in.

36:56.441 --> 37:02.703
So, he went in on the Sunday night and he'd come out on the Friday and it was the most horrific week of my life.

37:05.210 --> 37:08.159
I was on my own with my son and I stayed in the room with him.

37:12.202 --> 37:17.025
Dr. Wakefield was there, John Walker-Smith here with us.

37:17.745 --> 37:25.569
And they did speak to us on the Sunday and they came and took notes about, you know, how we had been, about the diet and the diary and different things.

37:27.310 --> 37:38.036
I mean, what I should say is before that I had actually wrote Dr. Wakefield a letter, which I've got to say as well, Jackie Fletcher was the person that advised me to do that.

37:38.796 --> 37:48.624
because when the solicitor in Newcastle, where I'm from, was telling me I couldn't get legal aid, Sandy advised me to ring Jackie Fletcher and speak to her.

37:49.424 --> 38:04.296
So I spoke to Jackie and Jackie said, you need to get in touch with Dr Wakefield and he will be able to do tests that will say whether my son had suffered from the MMR vaccination or not.

38:05.399 --> 38:10.925
So for me, as a desperate parent, you know, didn't know why my son had gone the way he was.

38:10.965 --> 38:17.411
It was like bereavement when I lost him to, you know, lost all of his skills and everything.

38:17.431 --> 38:22.556
And I was kind of desperate, really, to find out what had happened to him.

38:23.117 --> 38:24.738
And so.

38:24.919 --> 38:25.039
And.

38:29.665 --> 38:35.830
So I spoke to Jackie and Jackie asked me to write a letter to Dr Wakefield explaining.

38:36.631 --> 38:37.472
So that's what I did.

38:37.552 --> 38:42.456
I wrote quite a long letter to him and we spoke on the phone.

38:42.957 --> 38:51.604
He rang my home up and we spoke on the phone at length and he asked me to go to the GP and ask for a referral to see him.

38:54.066 --> 39:10.560
Let me just clarify, if I remember right what you told me yesterday, your son has already been basically no GI problems at all up until this point now, except for one very brief week where you gave him the wrong cod oil or something like that, and you figured it out, right?

39:11.882 --> 39:12.262
No, go ahead.

39:17.031 --> 39:20.394
Yeah, what it was, was when I told you I had healed him with the diet.

39:20.454 --> 39:22.676
So he was kind of six by the time he was healed.

39:24.098 --> 39:27.881
At this point, he was nine and three quarters, nearly 10 years old.

39:28.442 --> 39:33.827
But just after I wrote to Dr. Wakefield in the April of 96.

39:34.928 --> 39:35.088
Yeah, 96.

39:35.128 --> 39:40.974
And then in the June, I had him on a cod liver oil supplement.

39:42.534 --> 39:45.780
It was a dietician in Fiara wanting us to put him on supplements.

39:45.840 --> 39:53.453
So I put him on the cod liver oil supplement and he reacted with diarrhea, but it was very short-lived, a couple of weeks maximum I think it was.

39:55.487 --> 40:04.351
In that time, I wrote to Dr. Wakefield again after that because he had actually said to us in April, give us a few months because I'm recruiting people to do the research.

40:04.792 --> 40:13.776
But if you write to us in a few months, we should almost be ready to start the research and for your son to come down to the hospital.

40:14.456 --> 40:21.720
But I wrote back to him in June with the concerns about the diarrhoea at the time and asked him if there was anything he thought I could do.

40:22.380 --> 40:24.021
And again, I spoke to him on the phone.

40:24.915 --> 40:29.017
And that was when he told us to go for the referral to the JP.

40:29.057 --> 40:30.297
He said they were almost ready.

40:30.457 --> 40:32.899
You know, they were recruiting people for the research.

40:33.759 --> 40:37.160
So that was in the June and then September the 29th we went.

40:38.421 --> 40:43.703
And like I said, it was a horrendous week.

40:44.364 --> 40:51.087
So on the second day they did the biopsies, they get what they call it.

40:51.107 --> 40:54.208
So when they looked at his bowel, there's a name for it.

40:55.626 --> 40:58.188
I guess they call it an endoscopy among other things.

40:58.208 --> 41:00.009
Okay.

41:00.269 --> 41:02.591
And I remember I was there with him.

41:02.651 --> 41:04.012
Dr. Wakefield was there.

41:04.272 --> 41:08.695
I don't think he was the one that performed it, but he was standing there.

41:08.715 --> 41:11.517
There was a few of them and it took about an hour.

41:13.339 --> 41:18.182
And then that day, later on that night,

41:20.291 --> 41:22.233
collapsed three times in the hospital.

41:22.654 --> 41:30.582
I had taken him for a walk along the corridors and he collapsed three times.

41:30.662 --> 41:32.704
He was very, very ill that week after this.

41:36.128 --> 41:37.910
And, you know, I was on my own in the corridor.

41:37.930 --> 41:38.971
It was really difficult.

41:39.051 --> 41:39.592
But anyway,

41:41.584 --> 41:50.544
weren't going back to their room and they were wanting to do more tests that week and they did try doing some more tests and for one of them three nurses held them down.

41:51.460 --> 42:15.760
because he wouldn't keep still, you know, he was non-verbal, he didn't know what was happening to him, and he didn't like, they were trying to give him an injection at the time, and anyway, they had to hold him down for that, and they did, I know they did vitamin B tests, and there were some tests where they were trying to give him a drink, but he wouldn't drink it because it was awful tasting,

42:16.841 --> 42:19.925
He couldn't swallow tablets because he can't swallow tablets.

42:19.945 --> 42:24.370
He doesn't know how to do that because his skills are quite low.

42:24.390 --> 42:28.736
I have a high school kid who still can't swallow tablets.

42:28.776 --> 42:29.377
Are you kidding me?

42:33.218 --> 42:42.404
So one of the things I did want to do was give him a lumbar puncture and then about midweek they wanted to do that, but he was like really ill and they changed their mind.

42:42.484 --> 42:45.687
Then they were going to do it the next day, but they changed their mind again.

42:45.747 --> 42:53.873
And I think it's because they realized he had, you know, I think he had reacted to that initial biopsies that had been taken.

42:53.913 --> 42:55.214
He was being sick all the time.

42:55.234 --> 42:57.495
And he was like,

42:59.980 --> 43:01.422
dreaming through the night things.

43:02.583 --> 43:12.573
So what happened was, on the Friday when they'd finished doing what they wanted to do with them, basically, I didn't drive, I had getting the lift down there and

43:13.376 --> 43:21.105
We were going to go home, I think it was on the Saturday, but on the Friday they paid for a taxi all the way from London to North Shields, which is about 400 miles.

43:21.786 --> 43:27.152
I remember it was £100, but they paid for it, and that was all them years ago.

43:28.113 --> 43:31.757
So they obviously had money somewhere to be able to pay for that, but that's what happened.

43:32.549 --> 43:44.136
and there was no after-treatment, no before-treatment, he just went in the hospital and on the second day was there, got this test done and all the other tests that were done.

43:45.137 --> 43:51.181
But Dr Wayfield did keep in touch with us for a while and we did speak on the phone sometimes.

43:52.071 --> 44:01.717
afterwards and he was telling us that there were no there was more children went after that and he was saying that they were he was finding that they all had the same condition.

44:01.737 --> 44:12.963
I can't remember how you pronounce it lymphoid something it's got a long name and it's in his book it's if you can find it written up what the kids had.

44:14.232 --> 44:21.214
But the condition got changed from that, lymphoid nodular or something, and it got changed to colitis.

44:21.594 --> 44:23.894
Lymphoid nodular hyperplasia.

44:23.914 --> 44:25.435
That's it.

44:25.455 --> 44:26.995
Yeah, yeah.

44:27.175 --> 44:29.076
That is what he said he had.

44:29.516 --> 44:32.476
But Colin had no bowel problems when he went there.

44:32.596 --> 44:40.758
Now he had, like I said, he had the short-lived ones in the June, and he went there on September the 29th, he had absolutely no bowel problems whatsoever.

44:41.379 --> 44:42.039
He was healed.

44:44.431 --> 44:58.522
But I went because I was a desperate player and I wanted to know what had happened to my child and the promise of doing some tests to find out if it was MMR because I didn't know what had caused this horrendous reaction and loss of my son.

45:00.223 --> 45:02.685
So he did keep in touch.

45:02.885 --> 45:10.651
And then what happened out of the blue, following February, 97, which was I think round about the time that the Lancet study came out,

45:11.673 --> 45:17.697
I got a letter from JP and it had said that I had wanted to put him on medication.

45:17.717 --> 45:22.160
I can't think what it's called.

45:22.180 --> 45:29.786
It begins with an S. I did later find out it was meant to be an adult medication, this medication.

45:30.806 --> 45:38.492
And I was very, very reluctant because- I'm sorry, what kind of medication did you say it was supposed to be?

45:40.954 --> 45:46.256
I read later that it was in a medication that adults only adults are meant to have adults.

45:46.376 --> 45:46.576
Okay.

45:46.616 --> 45:46.816
Yes.

45:46.936 --> 45:47.176
Great.

45:47.196 --> 45:47.516
Great.

45:47.557 --> 45:47.697
Sorry.

45:47.757 --> 45:48.197
I missed that.

45:48.377 --> 45:51.318
You know, we'll probably be looked up, but I don't know.

45:51.498 --> 45:54.320
I don't know that the accuracy of that.

45:55.260 --> 46:01.063
Um, and then, so I've got this letter and I went to see me JP and, um, I knew nothing about it.

46:01.103 --> 46:02.143
I haven't heard about it.

46:03.544 --> 46:06.305
So I've got in touch with, um, Dr. Wakefield.

46:06.798 --> 46:09.059
And I think I spoke to John Walker Smith as well.

46:09.079 --> 46:15.500
And they were trying to convince us that this would really, really helpful for Colin.

46:15.980 --> 46:19.381
But they said it's not only for the bowel problems, it's for behaviour problems.

46:19.521 --> 46:21.341
And some children have started talking.

46:22.422 --> 46:30.504
And what they did was they got two of the mothers, Rosemary Kethwick and Isabella Thomas, who were the two main campaigning parents.

46:30.604 --> 46:32.844
But they're both Lancet 12 parents as well.

46:32.864 --> 46:36.305
But both of those parents are very close to Dr Wakefield.

46:36.750 --> 46:41.131
and they've got, you know, that part of the charities that they've set up together.

46:42.192 --> 46:53.795
And those two parents spoke to us on the phone and they convinced us that it was worth it because, and you can imagine me as a parent, my son had lost all of his speech and didn't think that something was going to help him speak again.

46:53.815 --> 46:59.777
And I kind of hummed him hard because I didn't really want him on the medication, but I thought, well, I've got to try it.

47:01.058 --> 47:05.039
So I put him on the medication and it made him ill.

47:07.100 --> 47:09.181
He got really bad diarrhea back.

47:09.361 --> 47:10.501
He got stomach pains.

47:10.861 --> 47:12.121
He got behavior problems.

47:14.762 --> 47:15.982
And I had to take him off it.

47:16.002 --> 47:18.803
He was on it a few weeks and I just took him back off it again.

47:19.443 --> 47:23.584
Never been on medication since.

47:23.824 --> 47:24.644
So they did that.

47:25.785 --> 47:33.066
I do know they were also wanting to do, because I got some letters about it, they were also wanting to do some other treatment.

47:33.886 --> 47:35.947
I can't think what it's called.

47:36.647 --> 47:39.208
somebody might know transfer factor or something.

47:39.648 --> 47:39.908
Okay.

47:41.529 --> 47:41.929
I don't know.

47:41.969 --> 47:42.790
I would have to look it up.

47:43.250 --> 47:48.132
He's been through a couple different things of trialing a couple different things, but I'm not sure.

47:50.253 --> 48:01.078
I'm just really shocked because that part also feels as though they used other study participants to coerce you into participating in another study, which is...

48:02.096 --> 48:08.701
Pretty remarkable, again, given the fact that as a doctor, he knows that your son didn't fit all the criteria.

48:08.741 --> 48:19.590
Yes, he had a lot of the cognitive impairments, but he didn't have the key sort of, the key part of the story was already gone and fixed.

48:19.670 --> 48:25.114
And so it's very remarkable that almost in a wanton need to ignore it.

48:28.176 --> 48:30.178
I find it really shocking.

48:32.830 --> 48:40.873
Yeah, well, I think what happened after that, obviously we're going through all the court cases and everything.

48:40.893 --> 48:45.014
And Dr Wakefield actually was at my legal aid hearing.

48:45.134 --> 48:56.598
I didn't know he was going to be there, but he came to Newcastle from London and he was one of the people on sitting around the table at the legal aid hearing, which I thought was quite strange.

49:00.169 --> 49:05.656
so and I just had to sit you know there for half an hour and talk about like what had happened.

49:06.818 --> 49:15.389
So one of the things that happened later on again, this parent Isabella Thomas, she wanted me to sign a letter of support to Dr Wakefield

49:16.118 --> 49:19.281
And it was for the GMC hearing that he was going through.

49:19.301 --> 49:31.113
And I said to her that I did, because I believed in Dr. Wakefield then, I totally trusted him.

49:31.353 --> 49:34.616
After all, he was the first doctor that I thought had sat and listened to us.

49:34.636 --> 49:38.019
I don't think it was genuine, but at the time I thought it was.

49:39.160 --> 49:44.905
And I said to her, I'm sorry, but I'm an honest person and I can't support him with this.

49:45.285 --> 49:53.692
I do wish him all the best, but I can't because at the hospital, he reacted really badly.

49:53.712 --> 49:55.093
He collapsed three times.

49:56.354 --> 50:02.539
And I said that I felt like the medication that he was given was being done for research purposes and not for my son's benefit.

50:04.386 --> 50:06.948
And I said, so I just could, I can't sign it.

50:07.468 --> 50:09.669
So I just kind of forgot about it.

50:09.769 --> 50:14.753
And to be honest, I didn't really keep up that much with the news about them and stuff.

50:14.773 --> 50:20.197
But I wasn't, you know, I certainly wasn't following it at the time.

50:21.377 --> 50:23.519
And then I did start following it from 2010.

50:23.579 --> 50:23.859
But, um,

50:27.805 --> 50:46.648
what happened was that I started looking on the internet around about 2010 because I heard like I realized he was going through this JMC case and I started looking things up and I was looking up about the JMC case, I was looking up about the Lancet 12 study, I was looking up about Dr Wakefield and

50:48.223 --> 50:50.224
Brian Dia, who later brought him down.

50:52.165 --> 50:53.145
Lots of different things.

50:53.465 --> 50:57.187
And I came across the letter on the internet and it was signed.

50:57.347 --> 51:03.510
Well, it was not signed, but it had the names underneath the letter of all the parents that had apparently signed.

51:03.750 --> 51:08.852
My name was on the letter and I never gave permission for them to do that.

51:09.768 --> 51:22.341
So as if I was one of the parents, and I think there was about five or six of the Lancet 12 parents on there, but two of them were the same parents.

51:22.601 --> 51:26.686
It was Isabella Thomas and her husband, but they had two children in the study.

51:27.366 --> 51:28.568
One was Rosemary Keswick,

51:29.832 --> 51:36.055
There was mine, and I think it was a guy called Sleet, I think.

51:36.435 --> 51:39.317
They have something written down.

51:42.170 --> 51:43.571
It's still remarkable.

51:43.672 --> 51:49.756
I mean, if you're saying, it's just remarkable.

51:50.837 --> 52:01.605
It really does seem like they were just looking for example children and Andrew Wakefield's job was to craft a narrative about them too.

52:02.226 --> 52:06.449
And he may have already had been given the narrative that he was supposed to find kids that fit.

52:08.170 --> 52:09.131
It's pretty remarkable.

52:10.393 --> 52:11.513
Yeah, I think so now.

52:11.593 --> 52:13.134
At the time, I was so naive.

52:13.834 --> 52:16.255
I didn't believe there was any corrupt people in the world.

52:16.615 --> 52:23.637
I just, you know, I didn't realize that mainstream media is corrupt.

52:23.677 --> 52:26.318
He's richer now than he's ever been in his life.

52:26.358 --> 52:29.299
He has a wonderful ranch in Austin, Texas.

52:29.359 --> 52:31.760
The guy's doing just fine, I can tell you that.

52:32.340 --> 52:38.862
And he regrets not being able to retire and live the rest of his life on his boat in the Caribbean because he says his wife won't let him.

52:40.242 --> 52:40.482
Yeah.

52:41.303 --> 52:46.289
I mean, one of the things as well, which I don't think I mentioned to you, was his wife, Camilla.

52:46.410 --> 52:47.511
Is it Camilla?

52:48.372 --> 52:50.635
I don't know, the one on the cover of the book, I guess.

52:51.776 --> 52:54.419
Yeah, his wife, who he's not with now, but at the time.

52:56.280 --> 53:04.483
because I had told them that I had kept paperwork, including the letters I had wrote to Dr Wakefield and various things.

53:04.723 --> 53:10.805
And she actually emailed me personally and asked me for this information.

53:10.825 --> 53:14.767
And that was round about 2005, I think.

53:15.207 --> 53:18.208
I think it was when he was going through one of his court cases because he's

53:19.308 --> 53:23.794
He's tried to sue a few people, and he never sued any of them.

53:23.854 --> 53:27.137
Brian Deer mainly, who I don't trust neither.

53:27.157 --> 53:34.586
He is the journalist that brought Wakefield down in later years, in the 2000s.

53:34.987 --> 53:38.471
And he kind of brought him down, you know.

53:39.111 --> 53:41.573
You pull the study apart and different things.

53:43.075 --> 53:50.621
But if it's anything like what they're doing, like what I think they've done to us in America, then that guy is on Andrew's team.

53:50.961 --> 54:02.451
That's why it works, you know, because otherwise he would go for the throat and the story would get worse and worse and he would have followed up with you and it would have been a real thing, but instead it just kind of stops where they need it to stop.

54:03.496 --> 54:07.679
Well, one of the things I kind of realized as the years went on, I started looking stuff up.

54:07.779 --> 54:12.102
I came across two books as well, which was written by the parents.

54:12.983 --> 54:15.125
I'd never been approached about these books.

54:16.426 --> 54:18.467
Some of the Lancet 12 parents were in them.

54:18.627 --> 54:19.408
There's two of them.

54:19.448 --> 54:20.749
I can't remember the titles.

54:21.369 --> 54:28.094
They were being sold through Cry Shame, the website, that some of these people run.

54:30.401 --> 54:33.282
I think it's Isabella that runs that one as well.

54:33.302 --> 54:39.224
And it was the parents and some other people that had children that had gone autistic.

54:39.604 --> 54:44.806
But wouldn't you think if I was a Lancet 12 parent that they would have got in touch with me?

54:45.606 --> 54:47.067
But I knew nothing about them.

54:48.147 --> 54:49.668
But I would have told the truth, you see.

54:49.908 --> 54:59.432
And they knew that, because I had been saying this, even to the solicitors, I was saying, I cannot go to these court cases in London, and I need to speak.

54:59.472 --> 55:03.974
Because if I do, I will be speaking the truth, and I'll be saying what happened at the hospital.

55:05.235 --> 55:07.216
So I think they deliberately left me out of it.

55:10.497 --> 55:15.559
I mean, you know, if their story was real, then in actuality, can we use your son's name?

55:15.579 --> 55:16.680
His name's Colin, right?

55:20.997 --> 55:22.899
Colin should have been the control group, right?

55:22.959 --> 55:25.181
Because he didn't have the bowel part.

55:25.601 --> 55:34.130
So it would have been a beautiful experiment had there been a signal in some of these kids and not in your son, but some of the symptoms were shared.

55:34.210 --> 55:34.590
That's how

55:35.899 --> 55:40.563
That's how an irreducible and irreducibly complex biological system works.

55:40.623 --> 55:54.615
It's not always going to be this cut and dried little easy peasy pattern where we can just separate the measles from the mumps and from the rubella and then all the kids will be fine, which is kind of what that story ended up being for a really long time in the media, right?

55:54.655 --> 56:01.320
That he was just advocating for separate vaccines and he thought that the putting the vaccines together, what was causing it and

56:02.501 --> 56:08.003
It's just remarkable that your son's history is so much more complicated than that, and they obviously know that.

56:08.763 --> 56:19.287
And then, yeah, it's... The other thing is, which I think I mentioned to you yesterday, Colin is in that book that you have there, it's Child No.

56:19.307 --> 56:26.030
4, but I can't remember if it's a paragraph or if it's a chapter on its own, but he's called the re-challenge case.

56:26.490 --> 56:31.072
So he talks about Colin as the re-challenge case and what he means by that.

56:31.852 --> 56:52.715
by that is because Colin got the measles vaccination at 15 months and then they sent Cord out to get these other six vaccinations on the same day but all throughout the court cases and everything the DPT was never mentioned and I never thought about it because to be honest I completely forgot, well I didn't

56:53.490 --> 56:57.312
even though he got six until years and years later when I got the paperwork.

56:58.512 --> 57:01.133
And it was always just said it was MMR, it was MMR.

57:02.954 --> 57:09.457
So he was the re-challenge case for MMR, but really he was the re-challenge case for day painting as well.

57:10.778 --> 57:17.921
So like there's quite a... I think if Marlowe wrote Colin in that book than what there is any other child, if I remember rightly,

57:19.622 --> 57:32.399
But the other thing as well, which I find really strange, is child number eight, who is the only girl in the study, actually came from the same GP surgery as myself.

57:33.183 --> 57:39.268
So I assume she lived where I live in North Shields, if not in the surrounding town.

57:39.769 --> 57:42.411
And I don't have a clue who this family is.

57:43.292 --> 57:48.196
And I didn't have a clue that she was part of the Lancet 12 until I read the book.

57:48.436 --> 57:53.180
And I've actually seen some information on the internet.

57:53.660 --> 57:55.202
And that was around about 2010 that I found out.

57:59.305 --> 58:08.590
So I have asked some of the people involved in this controversy if they could let us know and just it seems like nobody wants to let me know who this family is.

58:10.251 --> 58:13.233
Didn't one person even tell you that there was no girl in the trial?

58:14.301 --> 58:15.761
Yeah, that was Isabella Thomas.

58:16.442 --> 58:27.625
I rang her up and I spoke to her and I said, I want to find this family, this girl, because they live in my town or they live near my town or they did.

58:28.105 --> 58:31.126
And I said... Whitley Bay, it says in the book.

58:32.747 --> 58:35.107
Yes, that's right.

58:35.668 --> 58:38.568
She lived in Whitley Bay and I lived in North Shields.

58:38.628 --> 58:39.829
It's basically the next town.

58:39.989 --> 58:40.209
Okay.

58:41.678 --> 58:56.211
So Isabella, like I said, she said that what she said was there was no girl in the study poll and I said there was because I've read the book and I've also seen it on the internet.

58:56.691 --> 59:08.982
Maybe she thought that I'd never read the book because, you know, I hadn't really been taking that much interest until this point and she said, oh yes, you're thinking about the study in America

59:09.978 --> 59:11.019
And I said, no, I'm not.

59:11.359 --> 59:13.521
I'm talking about the study in England.

59:14.122 --> 59:17.986
And I said to her, I'm going to find out who this family is.

59:18.726 --> 59:19.707
Still haven't found out.

59:21.109 --> 59:27.615
There's been a few people within that controversy that I've asked, and nobody seems to want to tell us, or they're saying they don't know who it is.

59:29.977 --> 59:33.540
Brian Deer, the journalist, I did meet him in 2014.

59:36.460 --> 59:40.868
By this time I was very active in looking stuff up from 2010, mainly 2012, 13, 14 I was very active.

59:46.116 --> 59:48.678
But to be honest, I got very, very scared.

59:49.338 --> 59:54.302
I'm not going to go into that on this programme, but I'm very scared.

59:55.843 --> 01:00:01.766
Because when I got active, I got a lot of problems, including with my internet.

01:00:02.367 --> 01:00:12.574
So anyway, I did get in touch with Brian Deer and I wrote to him and had quite a few emails backwards and forwards.

01:00:12.994 --> 01:00:14.695
And he came up to meet me, came from

01:00:15.529 --> 01:00:17.570
wherever he lives down South London Way.

01:00:17.590 --> 01:00:23.434
And he met me in a hotel in Newcastle, which is the main city near me.

01:00:24.255 --> 01:00:27.237
And I spent about four hours, I would say, with him.

01:00:27.257 --> 01:00:30.899
And I tried to trust him.

01:00:31.419 --> 01:00:37.003
I gave him, after this, I gave him at least 100 documents and paperwork.

01:00:39.264 --> 01:00:41.666
I wanted to trust him because I thought he might be able to help us.

01:00:43.631 --> 01:00:45.773
But he didn't.

01:00:47.254 --> 01:00:55.701
The reason I got in touch with him was because I was keeping in touch with Paul Shatty.

01:00:57.843 --> 01:01:04.009
And when Paul came out to see me one day, I said to him, I need to know who this family is.

01:01:05.197 --> 01:01:09.938
And by this time, I was starting to realize that there was something not right.

01:01:10.638 --> 01:01:22.081
Just things that had happened, things that were being said, delay tactics about people within the controversy saying they were going to meet us, and it was delay tactics after delay tactics, and the meetings never happened.

01:01:22.621 --> 01:01:25.742
And I started realizing that there were things were just not adding up.

01:01:26.742 --> 01:01:34.064
So I said to Paul, if it's the last thing I do on this Earth, I will find this family.

01:01:35.344 --> 01:01:41.969
And surprisingly he said the name Brian Deer.

01:01:44.390 --> 01:01:50.374
And I was quite shocked because I thought these guys are on opposite sides of the controversy, like Paul Shattuck is.

01:01:51.477 --> 01:01:58.346
You might not hear him mentioned very often, but he was doing research with Dr. Wakefield before any of this ever happened.

01:01:59.387 --> 01:02:05.314
And I know that he is friends with him and they have been on seminars and things together.

01:02:05.654 --> 01:02:08.318
And so this guy recommended that you contact Brian Deer.

01:02:09.076 --> 01:02:10.117
Well, he just said it.

01:02:10.157 --> 01:02:11.099
That's the way he said it.

01:02:11.179 --> 01:02:14.723
When I said, if it's the last thing on earth that I'll do, I'll find this family.

01:02:14.803 --> 01:02:16.225
And he just said, Orang India.

01:02:16.325 --> 01:02:17.567
And I was quite taken aback.

01:02:18.088 --> 01:02:19.870
And it took us weeks to think about it.

01:02:20.411 --> 01:02:21.953
And I thought, well, what do I do?

01:02:24.216 --> 01:02:25.958
Because I could actually see from what

01:02:26.876 --> 01:02:41.984
I read everything meticulously on the internet about what Brian Deer was saying about Wakefield, what Wakefield was saying about Brian Deer, about the court cases that Wakefield was going through when he was suing Brian Deer and then he was backing off from the court cases.

01:02:42.585 --> 01:02:45.286
And I was thinking this just does not add up at all.

01:02:45.306 --> 01:02:48.588
There's something very phony about the whole thing.

01:02:49.972 --> 01:02:58.034
And the fact that I was being, they weren't coming forward to have meetings with me and to speak with me.

01:02:59.714 --> 01:03:03.035
So, but in the end, I thought, well, I'll just, I'll get in touch with them.

01:03:03.855 --> 01:03:10.936
So I did ask him if he knew who the family was and he came up with an address and what he be.

01:03:11.997 --> 01:03:18.818
And he said, this is where they lived when, you know, when they took out the court case

01:03:19.878 --> 01:03:23.221
when they originally went through the courts.

01:03:25.482 --> 01:03:25.823
Anyway.

01:03:27.173 --> 01:03:28.574
But that address was dead, right?

01:03:28.594 --> 01:03:29.695
That address was nothing.

01:03:29.775 --> 01:03:32.896
So as far as you know, you couldn't find anything there.

01:03:33.997 --> 01:03:35.138
No, I couldn't find anything.

01:03:38.019 --> 01:03:39.020
So that was that.

01:03:39.240 --> 01:03:42.282
And I don't trust Brian Deer.

01:03:42.522 --> 01:03:43.222
I really don't.

01:03:44.183 --> 01:03:45.484
Things are not adding up at all.

01:03:45.504 --> 01:03:53.548
And I started getting very active in trying to expose things and trying to tell my side of the story.

01:03:54.309 --> 01:03:55.710
But I was very, very scared.

01:03:56.921 --> 01:04:02.824
Um, well, I want, I want everybody to know, first of all, Paula has detailed journals of all of this.

01:04:02.884 --> 01:04:05.746
She kept a lot of meticulous records that she still has.

01:04:05.806 --> 01:04:12.189
And I think she's probably sitting on something that could be very, you know, useful for her family or whatever.

01:04:12.409 --> 01:04:16.171
I really want to encourage everyone to understand this is a story ongoing.

01:04:16.211 --> 01:04:19.352
Can we, or can I ask how old is your son now?

01:04:19.532 --> 01:04:20.133
How is he?

01:04:20.233 --> 01:04:21.754
How are you guys as a family?

01:04:21.774 --> 01:04:21.814
Um,

01:04:23.784 --> 01:04:25.505
He's 38 now.

01:04:25.865 --> 01:04:25.505
38?

01:04:26.685 --> 01:04:27.506
My gosh.

01:04:28.366 --> 01:04:29.886
He was nearly 10 at the time.

01:04:30.987 --> 01:04:34.528
So this has gone on, Ole Mieres is still going on.

01:04:34.568 --> 01:04:38.089
So this controversy has been going on since, well, 96 really.

01:04:40.090 --> 01:04:43.092
And and nothing's changed in that time, really.

01:04:43.492 --> 01:04:45.453
And they haven't found any answers.

01:04:45.913 --> 01:04:48.775
I haven't apparently found the answer to autism.

01:04:48.795 --> 01:04:53.598
We all know it's well, one of the things is vaccinations.

01:04:53.758 --> 01:04:57.840
I believe my son went autistic for a number of reasons.

01:04:58.861 --> 01:05:01.782
I think the overuse of antibiotics destroyed his foot.

01:05:02.643 --> 01:05:06.865
And so that he didn't have the friendly good bacteria that we all need.

01:05:07.469 --> 01:05:11.110
which made him a disadvantage to reacting to vaccines.

01:05:11.130 --> 01:05:13.271
But I believe he reacted to every vaccine now.

01:05:15.592 --> 01:05:20.053
And I know there's a thing called J-alpha protein defects that some children have.

01:05:21.334 --> 01:05:34.678
And when they get certain vaccines like the DPT and the measles vaccine, it totally destroys all the vitamin A so that then they're more prone to having

01:05:35.561 --> 01:05:37.503
and autistic type problems.

01:05:37.963 --> 01:05:39.344
So I don't know if he has that.

01:05:40.005 --> 01:05:43.288
And I think, you know, he did have a bad birth as well.

01:05:43.308 --> 01:05:47.071
They couldn't get the doctor out of bed when I was due to have a cesarean.

01:05:47.412 --> 01:05:49.133
And he was born double breech normally.

01:05:49.153 --> 01:05:52.496
And that could have had its disadvantages.

01:05:52.676 --> 01:05:54.618
But he was developing to a degree.

01:05:54.658 --> 01:05:56.359
He was a very, very happy child.

01:05:58.241 --> 01:06:00.383
And he was destroyed.

01:06:01.587 --> 01:06:06.608
Yeah, I can't express my sadness with the story.

01:06:06.688 --> 01:06:08.409
I mean, I really am very sad about it.

01:06:08.449 --> 01:06:10.529
I'm sad about every one of these stories that I hear.

01:06:10.609 --> 01:06:18.091
But more importantly, I'm very sad about how, as you said, they have made no progress.

01:06:18.131 --> 01:06:23.992
That's the part that's most remarkable to me, having figured something was wrong only because of the pandemic.

01:06:24.032 --> 01:06:28.373
Before that, I was, you know, you need to catch my kid up on vaccines?

01:06:28.413 --> 01:06:29.674
Go ahead, use both arms.

01:06:30.894 --> 01:06:31.835
I was a moron.

01:06:31.915 --> 01:06:44.003
Even though I was an academic biologist studying the brain and thinking I was all bright and smart, I didn't understand anything about general biology of my children the way I should have.

01:06:44.043 --> 01:06:47.365
I didn't think about it the way I should have and didn't question anything.

01:06:47.946 --> 01:06:49.347
And even after I started to

01:06:50.765 --> 01:06:59.317
To understand something was wrong, it still took me many years to get where you and your son have been for a long time, where you know that this is a pretty complicated mess.

01:07:00.558 --> 01:07:04.243
We are in a wonderful symbiosis with a microbiome.

01:07:04.283 --> 01:07:07.307
We carry a compost heap around in our guts.

01:07:08.749 --> 01:07:17.717
that balance is thrown off, then I'm sure we are hyper-vulnerable to an intramuscular injection of metals and toxins and proteins.

01:07:19.438 --> 01:07:24.002
I just, I can't thank you enough, number one, for sharing your story.

01:07:24.262 --> 01:07:33.670
Number two, for, I hope we can remain in touch because I think there's going to be a million people who would like more details as to what you did or how you did it and your experience with the diet.

01:07:34.951 --> 01:07:42.876
I'm I'm there's gonna be lots of questions about who contacted you and how Many other people knew this that could have spread it around.

01:07:42.956 --> 01:08:02.386
I mean, it's a you never had any contact with Polly Tommy this person that Wakefield worked with for a while you did Actually did what well I didn't I didn't I wrote to why you know when the housing was being built years ago with it should build a big build a big housing complex or she was gonna build a big big housing complex and

01:08:03.032 --> 01:08:10.897
And I was interested in whether they were going to build some in my area because they were meant to be building it in different parts of the country.

01:08:11.297 --> 01:08:15.259
So I wrote to her and asking her that question and she didn't reply.

01:08:15.279 --> 01:08:21.763
So I wrote to her again and she got somebody else to, I can't remember the name of the guy, but somebody else wrote back.

01:08:22.163 --> 01:08:24.765
I can't remember what they even said about it now.

01:08:25.245 --> 01:08:31.709
I think it was something like at the moment there was no plans in my area, but she didn't actually directly contact us herself.

01:08:33.349 --> 01:08:33.469
Okay.

01:08:33.569 --> 01:08:36.710
Can I just say one more thing about how my son was now?

01:08:37.210 --> 01:08:38.151
Sure, please.

01:08:38.971 --> 01:08:41.111
I don't think everybody would realize it.

01:08:41.551 --> 01:08:51.434
If you look at my son now, and you've seen him in the room, and he'd just be walking backwards and forwards, but I do a program with him, and I have workers, and he did nothing for years.

01:08:51.474 --> 01:08:53.775
He literally just rocked all the time.

01:08:53.855 --> 01:08:58.736
When he went to school, he learned nothing because he couldn't bear the noise, and he used to just crouch in the corner.

01:08:59.774 --> 01:09:24.330
and so he did nothing when he was at school and then in 2009 I went to America to do a program and anyway I came back and it took us a whole year to get him to do anything on the table but on the on the floor I would get crayons and it's all hand over hand he can't do anything on his own and eventually got him to do jigsaws hand over hand arts and crafts colouring in

01:09:26.991 --> 01:09:27.512
games.

01:09:27.592 --> 01:09:29.833
Now he plays games and he can throw a dice.

01:09:29.853 --> 01:09:30.694
He couldn't even do that.

01:09:30.714 --> 01:09:31.915
He had no pincer grip.

01:09:32.015 --> 01:09:38.499
It took us four months to get him to hold his hand out and point his finger every day.

01:09:39.740 --> 01:09:48.366
So he does this programme now in his own quiet little room and the programme's fantastic for him because at low he's very, very disabled.

01:09:49.526 --> 01:09:53.268
He can walk for miles, but he's disabled in the fact that he can't do a lot.

01:09:53.508 --> 01:09:55.769
But he's very, very intelligent.

01:09:56.969 --> 01:10:02.731
But he's stuck in his own body because he gets the answers right to nearly every question that I ask him.

01:10:03.172 --> 01:10:03.992
I can read a book.

01:10:05.302 --> 01:10:21.668
ask him a question, put like say six different answers out, and what you have to do is put your hand underneath his, like as if his brain can't do it himself, and then he'll point to the right answer every time, and he knows everything about history, geography, everything.

01:10:22.729 --> 01:10:31.492
But to look at him, he just goes around making these noises, he's in pants, he's doubly incontinent, he can't make a cup of tea, he can't dress himself,

01:10:33.561 --> 01:10:39.146
So anybody that walked in would just think he's got no brain, he's very intelligent.

01:10:39.667 --> 01:10:53.761
So a lot of these kids out there that have been damaged by the vaccines or whatever that it is that is causing this problem, they're stuck inside of their own body, they're there, they're taking stuff in and I believe

01:10:54.446 --> 01:11:04.657
I've taught him so many things over the years and so some other people have taught other people to teach him and I believe he is taking every single detail in that we're teaching him.

01:11:06.339 --> 01:11:11.625
It's probably the most important part of this interview and I'm so happy you made sure that it got in there.

01:11:13.246 --> 01:11:18.392
As a parent of three kids, I don't have any words for you sharing your story with me.

01:11:18.472 --> 01:11:19.533
I just can say thank you.

01:11:21.155 --> 01:11:30.946
And if you ever want to come back again and talk about the diet, or talk about this again, or if I find something, I mean, whatever I can do to repay this, you have been

01:11:33.450 --> 01:11:39.752
This has been, I just am shocked that they, I've been saying that they haven't made any progress in five years.

01:11:39.772 --> 01:11:42.153
They haven't made any progress in 34 years.

01:11:44.634 --> 01:11:46.795
It's a crisis we're under right now.

01:11:46.875 --> 01:11:48.596
These people are just despicable.

01:11:50.984 --> 01:12:10.087
Yeah I mean the one thing I've got no support I'm actually I'm totally on my own with this I've been trying to expose things and you know just get the story out so people can see different sides of it and let people investigate it whatever but this needs investigating and I'm scared I'm scareder than ever but you know what

01:12:11.540 --> 01:12:23.551
it needs to get out there because there was other children after Colin, there was hundreds of children that he investigated, their bowels, in England and then in America.

01:12:23.571 --> 01:12:25.934
It wasn't just Colin,

01:12:26.893 --> 01:12:52.167
And I actually think it's all been but I don't know that obviously I'm kind of guessing here But I think it's been for research purposes or whatever reason and I don't even know about anything to do with MMO I really don't know but I think they've wanted to get in the guts of these children for research Yeah, I I really I don't know how to say how pertinent is what you're saying.

01:12:52.227 --> 01:12:53.628
I've been teaching for the last

01:12:54.830 --> 01:13:06.795
five years but only very recently have I been enlightened as to how powerful this interaction with our microbiome is and how central it is to our existence.

01:13:08.636 --> 01:13:12.518
It's been a history lesson for me because there's lots of people who know this.

01:13:12.598 --> 01:13:14.999
I think part of the illusion of the pandemic is

01:13:15.599 --> 01:13:20.322
ignoring that bacteria have their own viruses and some of them are good and some of them are bad.

01:13:20.882 --> 01:13:36.470
If you spent the last 20 years thinking about your son's gut, then I'm sure you know this and it's a, it is a remarkable omission if they start telling us that all the viruses are just replicating in our, in our lungs and they need to squirt stuff in our arm to fix us for them.

01:13:38.710 --> 01:13:42.435
Is there anything else I can, I can, you want to say or I can do here?

01:13:42.455 --> 01:13:46.099
I don't want to like say a bunch of details and stuff like that.

01:13:46.139 --> 01:13:48.883
People can contact me and then I can put them in contact with you.

01:13:49.023 --> 01:13:53.468
For now, I mean it's quite overwhelming for me, you know, having to do this.

01:13:53.528 --> 01:13:54.370
It's quite emotional.

01:13:54.990 --> 01:13:57.472
To be honest, it is so complex.

01:13:57.773 --> 01:14:00.075
It's such a long, long story.

01:14:00.135 --> 01:14:01.976
There's so much more detail to this.

01:14:01.996 --> 01:14:02.937
That isn't just it.

01:14:04.779 --> 01:14:06.360
And I've been stopped from speaking up.

01:14:06.420 --> 01:14:07.041
I know I have.

01:14:08.402 --> 01:14:11.305
And it's just the complexities of it.

01:14:12.106 --> 01:14:12.926
It's just too much.

01:14:13.367 --> 01:14:14.227
There's too much to say.

01:14:14.247 --> 01:14:16.870
I've tried to give you the basics of it, really.

01:14:18.678 --> 01:14:20.340
We did a very good job.

01:14:20.380 --> 01:14:21.962
Yesterday was also really good.

01:14:22.182 --> 01:14:26.847
I got a lot of notes yesterday and I think between today and yesterday I have a really good idea of

01:14:29.372 --> 01:14:32.773
your experience relative to the funny story in this book.

01:14:32.934 --> 01:14:33.214
I don't know.

01:14:33.334 --> 01:14:34.494
I don't really know what to say.

01:14:34.514 --> 01:14:36.855
I think it's a good place to end.

01:14:37.876 --> 01:14:39.596
I would like to say good evening to you.

01:14:40.377 --> 01:14:42.437
Thank you so much for sharing this hour with me.

01:14:43.118 --> 01:14:50.501
And if there are people that are trying to get in touch with you, I will put them in touch via the email that I have on an individual basis.

01:14:50.561 --> 01:14:51.061
I guess I won't

01:14:51.482 --> 01:14:53.704
I'll try not to pass on any crazy people to you.

01:14:55.225 --> 01:15:05.094
And if I get some, I mean, I do have a few people that I think are okay and are still patriots in America trying to figure this out too.

01:15:05.154 --> 01:15:11.279
So it may be, yeah, it will be that we need to talk again, but I can't thank you enough.

01:15:12.663 --> 01:15:14.284
for spending this time with me.

01:15:14.325 --> 01:15:15.185
Thank you, thank you, thank you.

01:15:15.505 --> 01:15:18.668
Thank you for listening because I'll be honest, I don't trust many people.

01:15:18.688 --> 01:15:26.814
After what I've been through all these years and trusted everybody at one point, I trust very, very few people and I trust you.

01:15:27.735 --> 01:15:28.756
Well, thank you very much.

01:15:28.816 --> 01:15:32.599
I don't know what to say other than I'm very, very happy we got this done.

01:15:33.419 --> 01:15:34.480
And take care of yourself.

01:15:34.520 --> 01:15:36.862
Please stay in touch and I will as well.

01:15:36.922 --> 01:15:39.965
I have a lot of emails to catch up on and a lot of things to read over.

01:15:40.025 --> 01:15:41.586
So, thank you, thank you, thank you.

01:15:42.791 --> 01:15:43.371
Thank you.

01:15:43.691 --> 01:15:44.011
Bye-bye.

01:15:44.551 --> 01:15:45.411
Bye.

01:15:46.752 --> 01:15:52.233
Thank you guys for joining me on this very special occasion.

01:15:52.973 --> 01:15:54.993
I'm just so happy that I got to meet her.

01:15:55.033 --> 01:15:56.193
I'm so happy she reached out.

01:15:57.914 --> 01:15:59.574
What a moving interview.

01:15:59.594 --> 01:16:07.635
I think there's only one conclusion to come to, that Wakefield was put in place and scoured the earth for a story that he could sell.

01:16:07.695 --> 01:16:09.196
Maybe a couple stories he could sell.

01:16:09.236 --> 01:16:10.996
Maybe there were a couple iterations of it.

01:16:11.833 --> 01:16:19.555
And Paula Aitken and her son got caught up in this mess in a very, very bad way, I think.

01:16:19.835 --> 01:16:35.639
And it's just a small little piece of the puzzle, I think, in order to understand what's going on and understand why this guy Wakefield has been in front of Congress and has been behind Children's Health Defense and ICANN for so many years.

01:16:35.699 --> 01:16:37.119
Thank you very much for joining me.

01:16:37.339 --> 01:16:40.340
And I hope to see you again tomorrow, real soon, at least, real soon.

